Rose (Stoughton) Otis & Lewkenor line

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tom

Rose (Stoughton) Otis & Lewkenor line

Legg inn av tom » 04 sep 2005 17:32:12

In October of 2004 Martin Hollick provided an update on the
Stoughton/Lewkenor line, Nathaniel Taylor and Douglas Richardson also
commented.
The open issues seem to be:
1) Was Sir Edmund Lewkenor of Tangmere and husband to Joan/Jane
Tirrell, and father to Elizabeth Lewkenor, the son of Sir Roger
Lewkenor and Lady West? [Whether Lady West was named Mary or Ann is a
side issue].

2) If he was, how do we explain the apparent timeline discrepancy that
both Doug and Martin bring up?

Now taking the second question first:
There certainly would seem to be a problem if Reynold West had only one
wife, Margaret Thorley, who died in 1433. Leo van de Pas wrote in July
of 2003 of a second wife, Elizabeth Greyndour, (Burke's Peerage has
Reynold marrying this Elizabeth by 1443). Leo further states, Reynold
and Elizabeth appear to have had a daughter Mary, born ~ 1450. If this
is true then the "time discrepancy" mentioned above no longer
exists.

As for the first question, it should be broken down into two separate
pieces. A) was the Edmund Lewkenor, who died on 11 March 1544/5, the
son of Roger who died between 6 November 1509 and 23 Feb. 1509/10? B)
was this Roger the husband of Lady West?

I would answer yes to both questions, but I'm not sure if my
reasoning reaches the level of proof that is required by this group.
1) As Martin stated in his 2004 posting, secondary sources show this
already (specifically the visitations of Sussex and Suffolk and
Comber's Sussex Genealogies).

When Edmund was close to death in March1544/5 he is shown as, Edmunde
,Edmund and Edward Lewkenor of Tagmere . [Sussex Record Society Vol's
XLI and XLV]. This is offered to take a little steam out of the
argument that perhaps Edmund and Edward were two different people.

Roger (d. 1509) and Edmund (d. 1544) and their children are the only
Lewkenor's I can find in Tangmere during this period.

Roger bequeathed to the parish church at Tangmere just before his
death. Edmund did the same.

Roger bequeathed to the parish church at Boxgrave just before his
death.
Roger refers to "my Lady West" in his will.

In Edmund's will he states: "my body to be buried in the parishe of
Boxgrave nygh unto the place where my father and mother be buried."
The Priory at Boxgrave

I welcome any comments.
Regards
Tom Dunn
Kilbrittain, Co. Cork, Ireland

Gjest

Re: Rose (Stoughton) Otis & Lewkenor line

Legg inn av Gjest » 04 sep 2005 22:41:15

As to question #1: Yes, Edmund Lewkenor who married Jane/Joane Tirrell
was the son of Roger Lewkenor and his wife Anne. This research was
recently published in Doug Richardson's Magna Carta Ancestry, p. 782-3.

Question #2: The timeline discrepancy remains and Anne's exact
parentage has yet to be fully proven. In Richardson's PA, p. 402, he
notes that Reynold West's children were all by Margaret Thorley and no
issue from the second marriage to Elizabeth Greyndour. Therefore, all
his children were born prior to Margaret's death c. 24 November 1433.

So, if Roger Lewkenor married a West woman she was born at the latest
in 1433 and her son was married about 1530 and having children in the
1530's and 40's and died in 1544/5. Not impossible, but a stretch.
Some other convincing evidence is needed to prove such a line. Roger
Lewkenor's known children are: Roger, Edmund, and four daughters: Joan,
Dorothy, Clemence and Elizabeth.

Thomas West, the 8th Lord la Warr definitely calls Edmund Lewkenor his
kinsman in his will. Roger Lewkenor gives noted gifts to both Lord and
Lady LaWarr in his will. There is certainly a familial connection
here. But what is it?

Considering the timeline, I find it more likely that Roger married Anne
West, a daughter of Richard West, the 7th Lord Warr, not Reynold, the
6th Lord. Unfortunately neither Richard nor his wife Katherine
(Hungerford) (West) Leventhorpe have extant wills. I am presently
getting someone to look at the monumental inscriptions of Roger and
Anne Lewkenor at the Boxgrove Priory in Sussex to see if there is a
clue there.

Note also that John Brandon in a message to this group on 1 July 2005
helped with an identification of the wife of Richard Ive as an
Agmondesham.

tom

Re: Rose (Stoughton) Otis & Lewkenor line

Legg inn av tom » 05 sep 2005 18:18:16

Thank you for your response. I appreciate the efforts you have put into
the investigation of Rose Stoughton's ancestry and anxiously await any
new findings.
Regards
Tom Dunn
Kilbrittain, Co. Cork, Ireland

tom

Re: Rose (Stoughton) Otis & Lewkenor line

Legg inn av tom » 05 sep 2005 18:20:10

Thank you for your response. I appreciate the efforts you have put into
the investigation of Rose Stoughton's ancestry and anxiously await any
new findings.
Regards
Tom Dunn
Kilbrittain, Co. Cork, Ireland

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