ECHINGHAM
11. JOAN ARUNDEL, elder daughter. She married (1st.) WILLIAM DE BRYAN
(or BRIAN) Knt., of Kemsing and Seale, Kent, and Woodmansterne, Surrey,
Captain of Merk Castle in the Marches of Calais, 2nd. son of Guy de
Bryan, K.G., Lord Bryan, by his second wife, Elizabeth, daughter of
William de Montagu, 1st. Earl of Salisbury, 3rd. Lord Montagu, Marshal
of England. They had no issue. He died 23 Sept. 1395, and was buried at
Seale, Kent.
She married (2nd) before 1400 (as his first wife) WILLIAM ECHINGHAM,
Knt., of Etchingham, Sussex, son of William de Echingham, Sussex by his
wife Elizabeth. They had one son, Thomas, Knt., and one daughter,
Joan. She was a legatee in the 1401 will of Agnes Arundel, widow of her
brother, William Arundel, K.G. She died 1 Sept. 1404.
He married (2nd) Alice Batisford, daughter and co-heiress of William
Batisford, of Buckholt (in Bexhill), Sussex, by Margery, daughter and
heiress of Simon de Peplesham. They had two daughters, Elizabeth (wife
of Thomas Hoo, Knt., and Thomas Lewknor, Knt.) and Joan (wife of William
Rykhill). SIR WILLIAM ECHINGHAM died 20 March 1412/13. They were
buried at Etchingham, Sussex.
Citations . . . . . [all secondary sources]
Children of Joan Arundel, by William Echingham, Knt. :
i. THOMAS ECHINGHAM, Knt.
ii. JOAN ECHINGHAM, married JOHN BAYNTON, Knt., of Faulstone (in
Bishopston), Wiltshire [see BAYNTON 13]. Ancestors of Anne Baynton,
Mary Gye.
...................................................................
According to an Inquisition held at Winchelsea on Tuesday after St.
Hilary 2 Henry V (15 Jan 1414/5), WILLIAM ECHINGHAM and his wife JOAN
had two daughters holding a small portion of land, needed for the
rebuilding of the wall surrounding the town of Winchelsea ;
John Rykhill, as in right of Joan his wife, and Elizabeth her sister,
daughters of William lord of Etchingham, knight, and of Joan his wife,
have 36 3/8th yards in two tofts lying together in the same quarter,
which descended to them by hereditary right on the death of Joan their
mother and are held of the king in chief by a fee-farm of 8 3/4d., . . .
which leads me to ask this question. Given that Joan, wife of John (NOT
William, his father, married to Rosa Medlan when he made his will in
1407) Rykhill and Elizabeth are identified as sisters, both being
daughters of Joan (dead by 1413/4), wife of William Echingham, how does
the content of the Joan Arundel file stand up to scrutiny?
The stated marriage of Joan Echingham and John Baynton looks very
dubious, to say the least. Their son and heir Robert is said to have
been born (according to his father's inquisition), about 1439. Thus we
have Joan (born by 1404 when her mother Joan was dead) having her first
son at the youthful age of 35+. Did she marry previous to John Boynton?
Perhaps to John Rikhill?
Is there a primary source to indicate that the Baynton/Echingham
marriage took place? If, indeed, it did, perhaps William Echingham
married another Joan (as well as Alice Batisford) in the years from
1404-1413.
The descendants of Anne Baynton and Mary Gye could be in danger of
losing their Plantagenet Ancestry!
Would Douglas Richardson comment on the above please?
Tony Ingham