Griffith famly of Burton Agnes, Yorkshire

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Griffith famly of Burton Agnes, Yorkshire

Legg inn av Gjest » 03 sep 2005 21:01:32

SOME NOTES ON THE GRIFFITH FAMILY OF BURTON AGNES, YORKS.

This is an interesting family which some will recall as being the
subject of several posts. Douglas Richardson and others have
transcribed abstracts of medieval documents pertaining to the
Griffiths.

Copies of this material were kindly sent me by The Society of
Antiquaries of London from their manuscript collection. It is a ten
page manuscript written in 1948, presumably by a member of SAL
describing material furnished by Captain Marcus Wickham-Boynton, who
was then owner of the manor of Burton Agnes in the East Riding of
Yorkshire.
I wish the manuscript had more to say about later generations of the
Griffiths, but there are other sources of information on them.

As for the pedigree roll and paintings of the three knights mentioned
in the narrative, I think there is little doubt that these are Stuart
era productions. I also think that when the church at Burton Agnes was
restored in the Victorian era, the below mentioned pedigree roll was
what was used to reconstruct the monument inscriptions, which were
therefore modern as of then. The writer hedges his bets on certain
things, as the reader will note. "Apparently," and "meant to
be," and "A or B," do not inspire confidence. The author was
honest enough to say when he was uncertain; nonetheless, his notes on
the early history and Welsh connections of the Griffiths are valuable,
as are some passages on the Somerville family, who haven't been much
discussed in the Richardson and Faris volumes. When quotation marks
are used, this is to indicate that the author is quoting Thynne's
1604 pedigree.

Those interested in Diana (Skipwith) Dale's descent from Edward III
via the Griffiths are directed to my posts on Rootsweb's Skipwith
board.


TEXT:




Pedigree of Griffith of Burton Agnes, East Yorks compiled by Francis
Thynne, Lancaster Herald and dated 1 August 1604.

This pedigree belongs to Captain Marcus Wickham-Boynton, the descendant
and present representative of the Griffiths of Wichnor (Staff) & Burton
Agnes (E. Yorks). It was lent by him and exhibited at the meeting of 8
January 1948.

The pedigree, written on vellum, measures 3 ft. 4 ½ in. in width by 13
ft. in length. The writing is beautifully clear and the whole roll is
in excellent condition. There is a painted shield, approximately 1 5/8
X 1 7/8 in., showing the arms of each individual, and also a number of
additional paintings together with many copies of or extracts from
charters, inquisitions post mortem, and other evidences.

At the head of the pedigree is this like:-
"The derivations and discourse of the Propagatione and Genealogicall
Descent of the Ancient and Worshippfull famelye of the Griffiths of
Agnes Burton in the countye of York whereof Sir Henry Griffyth of Agnes
Burton Knight the succeedinge heire by lyneall descent and inheritance
is the chiefe and eldest of the principall and directe Stemme in the
year of redemption One Thousand & Six hundred and fower the seconde of
Kinge James: which Sir Henry is lineally ... from the Kings of
Englande, the dukes of Normandye, the princes of Wales, the earls of
Northumberlande before and at the Conqueste, of the earls of Marche and
Dunbar in Scotland, and of many other honorable and worshippfull
families as appeareth in this pedigree ... collected and warranted as
well by charters, evidences and other monuments of Reverent Antiquitye
Remaininge nowe in the Church of Agnes Burton and possessione of the
said Sir Henry Griffithe as also the records of Inquisitions in the
Tower of London and in the Chappell of the ... in Chansery lane and out
of approved Histories and liegor Bookes of ..."

[Bear with me; some of this writing, although made in 1948, is tough to
decipher. The material furnished to me by SAL included photocopies of
a portion of the pedigree roll and the paintings of the knights
mentioned below. There's no doubt that material isn't 15th or 16th
century; I'll stick to my statement that they're Stuart era. JTC]

Below the like are paintings of three knights. That of the top is
apparently meant to be Sir Walter Griffyth I (ob. 1481). He is in
plate armor with a shield of the "..." arms of Griffith quartering
Somerville. He also holds a large banner emblazoned with the arms of
Somerville and Griffyth & quartered with Merlay in pretence (S shield
so marshalled is the ... on Sir Walter's monument in Burton Agnes
church). He is bareheaded but his helm rests on the ... at his feet.
This has as crest three ostrich feathers [a description of the arms
follows which I know nothing about. JTC].

The other two figures are side by side below Sir Walter: The outer is
probably meant intended for Rees ap Griffith ap Howell (father of Sir
Rhys I), the last of the line to reside in Wales and, according to the
pedigree, the last between the ancient Welsh arms of the family. The
sinister I take to be meant either for Sir Rhys I, the first to settle
in England, or for his son Sir Rhys II.

The outer figure is in plate armour over which he wears an ermine-lined
red robe which reaches to his ankles. On his left arm is a large
[again, a description of the arms. JTC].

The sinister figure is in mail armour with a red robe like the outer.
In his right had is a shield with the [descr. of the arms. JTC]. In
his left hand is a spear with a ... or standard having the cross of St.
George with the staff; the ... is ... powdered with silver ... and ...
and charged with a black ... with white ... , with a ... crown around
his neck & chain ....

Towards the middle of the pedigree is a drawing of the monument of Sir
Roger de Somerville with his wives: -
"This image in brass upon a marble tombe is not remainingye in the
Church of Agnes Burton of Sir Roger Somerville whereof the Leger Booke
of Marpeth thus writeth:-Anno Dui 1336 et 14 Kal. Feb. origt dom
Rogerus de Somerville sui dedit ... ... ecclesie de Stanington ... ...
Agnis Burton etc."

The drawing represents a cross-legged effigy in plate armour with a
couched lion as footstool. He wears a short ... slit halfway up the
front & ... with the arms of Merlay [descr. of arms]. The legend is on
an arch shaped band surrounding the effigy:
+Sir+Roger+Somerville+Gist+Icy: Devs+Yet+Mercy+Del+Alme+Dely. Above
the top of the arch is a shield of the arms of Merlay.

(This monument no longer exists; there is no mention of it in C.V.
Collier's accounts of the monuments of Burton Agnes or in
Stephenson's "Monumental Brasses." The Sir Roger in question was
son of Sir Robert Somerville & his wife Isabel coheiress of Merlay-his
brother Philip was the last male of the Somerville line-it is
noteworthy that Sir Roger Somerville, paternally a Somerville, wears
the arms of his heiress mother.)

Slightly below that monument are painted two kneeling figures, a knight
in armour and a woman. He wears a tabard She a mantle, both emblazoned
with the Merlay arms. The accompanying inscription seems to be:-Prib
PVR. Sir Roger De Svmmvrwlel Kecdel Te O Vereln. Fist. Fer - Dame
Maldel Svmmelwilel. (The lettering is difficult to read and the middle
portion looks as though Thynne's artist was copying blindly something
which he could not understand. These figures and inscriptions are
presumably the same which Collier records as in the east window of the
Lady Chapel at Burton Agnes.)

Besides these figures [descr. Of Griffith crest and badge].

Still lower on the pedigree is a drawing of the tomb of Sir Walter
Griffith I (ob. 1481) showing on the end the two shields described by
Collier, viz. (1) Neville quartering Boteler of Wem; and (2) Somerville
and Griffith quartering with Merlay in pretence.

At the bottom of the pedigree is painted:-
"The Hatchievement or full complement of the Ensignes or ... of Sir
Henry Griffith of Agnes Burtone Knight to use for him and his
succeedinge posteritye being lawfully descended unto them as is truly
proved by this pedigree."

[What follows is a discussion of the heraldry of the shield including
Griffith, Griffith of Wales, Somerville, Merlay, and Stuteville. It is
noted that there is no motto. JTC]

At the left of this achievement is this note:-
"Concerninge the Armes of the Griffithes it appeareth that Rees
Griffth father of Sir Rees the first knight left the Ancient Welshe
Armes of his famylye to the elder howse and that Sir Rees Griffith his
sonne did bear the armesat first onlye [discussion of arms. JTC]...
and sometime did beare Somerville coate alone and sometime the other
coate quartered with Somerville as appeareth by dyvers bookes of Armes
in my possession. And that afterwarde in respect of the good service
done by Sir Rees Griffith the father in the warre in France and
especially in the battle of Poitiers where the Frenche kinge was taken
in the 30.Ed:3: a little before the death of the said Sir Rees the
father, the said Rees had sixe Lion ceux folde (one addition of honor)
joined to the former Armes of Gules a chevron )sic) Dauncy argent
charged with 3 Merkels sables, from which tyme until this daye his
succeeding issue have always borne the same armes so adorned and used
them in persons and ... for the Warres and in the Ornements for theire
funerals and Seakes as is authentikely know by this pedigree.
Francis Thynne
Lancaster primo ...
1604 et 2
...."

(This seems to mean that the father of Sir Rhys I abandoned the chevron
and 3 ... of his forbears & wore gules a ... or chevron daucy ... with
3 markets; that Sir Rhys II was granted the addition of six golden lion
in memory of his father's (Rhys I) prowess at Poitiers. In the
pedigree, however, it is only the shield of Sir Rhys I's father
shield which is painted without lions; Sir Rhys I & all his descendants
bear the ... lions).

The pedigree traces the Griffiths back through Ednevet (?) Vychan & his
wife Gwenllian daughter of Rhys Prince of South Wales, to the following
three Welchmen:
(a) Japheth ap Carwed ap Mereyhith one of the fifteen Genlordes or
Peeres of Wales [arms]
(b) Howell Dha or Howell the good, Prince of all Wales, died 948 [arms]
(c) Merick ap Edwall voell, Prince of North Wales [arms]
Another Welch descent is from Maynarth lord of Brecknock [arms]

The pre-Conquest personalities for whom descent is traced through
females are Forno [arms] ancestor of Gospatrick, earl of Northumberland
[arms]; Waltheof the elder, Duke of Northumberland of the Saxon race
[arms]; and King Ethelred [arms] and his wife Aelfgiva daughter of the
Duke of Normandy [arms].

Many other lines, including Somerville, from whom the Griffiths
inherited Wichnor and Burton Agnes, are introduced at later points.

As to the reliability of the pedigree I can only say that from a
somewhat cursory examination of the main Somerville-Griffith line
(that is the descent of Wichnor & Burton Agnes), this seems to be
substantially correct-outside that I have not gone, there is one point
makes me skeptical-
Among the descendants of the Griffiths Thynne includes Sir Rees ap
Thomas, K.G., whose mother he names as Elizabeth, daughter of Sir John
Griffth (ob. 1471) of Wichnor and Burton Agnes. That may be correct ,
at least it accords with some other pedigrees. Thynne is however
certainly wrong in making Sir Rees ap Thomas marry the Duke of
Norfolk's daughter; it was not the K.G. who married Katherine Howard
but his grandson Rhys ap Griffith.

Among the illustrative documents I noted the following as having
drawings of seals appended.

Charter of Philip de Somerville, 12 Ed. 3. [arms] =S.Plt: Somerville:
de: Wychynuer: Dri.

Charter of Robert de Somerville, eldest son & heir of John de
Somerville, dominus de Wichnor, knight; undated [arms]
+Sigllvm: Roberti: De: Somervle

Deed by Sir Rees son of Rees ap Griffith, dated London, Sunday, week
after Easter 45 Ed. 3. [arms] [crest] Sigillvm Resi Ap Griffyth.

Deed by Henry som of Sir Rees ap Griffith and brother of Rees, dated
Abermeleye 2 March 45 Ed 3. [arms]
+Sigillvm. Henri. Ap. Griffyth.

Deed of Joan ap Griffith dne de Wichnor. dated ... 45 Ed. 3.
[arms]
Sigillum iohanne griffythe


[illegible signature]
10 January 1948


END OF TEXT


I don't know much about heraldry, and would appreciate any advice as
to a good work to buy on the subject that deals with coats of this
period.

The main thing I get out of this is that the owners of the manor of
Burton Agnes were lineal Griffith descendants, and that the manor had
originally been the property of the Somervilles. My understanding is
that the Griffith chapel in the church was built ca. 1500, but there
were Griffith tombs in the church which predated that. Unfortunately,
over the years or perhaps deliberately during some civil strife, the
inscriptions were damaged and had to be reconstructed, which they were,
doubtless from the roll discussed above, but using "modern"
language. If this is not the case, I have no idea of what they used to
do it.

Tim Powys-Lybbe

Re: Griffith famly of Burton Agnes, Yorkshire

Legg inn av Tim Powys-Lybbe » 03 sep 2005 22:42:48

In message of 3 Sep, jeffchip9@hotmail.com wrote:

SOME NOTES ON THE GRIFFITH FAMILY OF BURTON AGNES, YORKS.

<snip of a very interesting account>

The pre-Conquest personalities for whom descent is traced through
females are Forno [arms] ancestor of Gospatrick, earl of Northumberland
[arms]; Waltheof the elder, Duke of Northumberland of the Saxon race
[arms]; and King Ethelred [arms] and his wife Aelfgiva daughter of the
Duke of Normandy [arms].

This is creative heraldry: these people lived before 1100. Heraldry
was not invented until around 1125-1150.

There are grounds for saying that it is legitimate heraldry as, to this
day, English grants for a new armiger can be said to be started with
their father (even if deceased) or their grandfather (also even if
deceased). In other words, dead people can be given arms even though
they never dreamt of them in their lifetime. Not sure that this
practice extends to the times of early heraldry though.

I am very doubtful about the Welsh heraldry included earlier, for much
the same reason.

<snip>
I don't know much about heraldry, and would appreciate any advice as
to a good work to buy on the subject that deals with coats of this
period.

About the only work that is available, but is incomplete, is the
Medieval Ordinary of British Arms Vols I and II, published by the
Society of Antiquaries. This will be completed in around three or four
years by volumes III and IV. I don't think it will cover the above
creative heraldry though.

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org
             For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

Gjest

Re: Griffith famly of Burton Agnes, Yorkshire

Legg inn av Gjest » 04 sep 2005 01:45:59

Tim--
Thank you for the information. I agree with you that the older
generations, while interesting, should be viewed with caution.
I did find a book called "The Oxford Guide to Heraldry" on amazon which
purports to have contributors from the College of Arms and that at
least should help.
Jeff Chipman

Tim Powys-Lybbe

Re: Griffith famly of Burton Agnes, Yorkshire

Legg inn av Tim Powys-Lybbe » 04 sep 2005 09:29:13

In message of 4 Sep, jeffchip9@hotmail.com wrote:

Thank you for the information. I agree with you that the older
generations, while interesting, should be viewed with caution.
I did find a book called "The Oxford Guide to Heraldry" on amazon which
purports to have contributors from the College of Arms and that at
least should help.

I have that book and I reckon it is a good one; one author is a herald
of the C of A and is now Norroy and Ulster King of Arms, the other
author is a special herald associated with the College. But the book
does not give lists of who held what arms, it is principally a good
guide to English practice.

See: http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/Bibliography.htm and
http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/About/04.htm

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org
             For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

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