Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richardson

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Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richardson

Legg inn av Gjest » 03 sep 2005 15:47:01

Due to the kind assistance of many persons, and with special thanks to Leo,
we now have a live page for the display of Corrections to Doug's latest book.

_http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~wjhonson/PAC/_
(http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~wjhonson/PAC/)

Be sure to bookmark it for future reference until such time as Google can
see it.

Please feel free to email me with fixes, suggestions and more corrections as
you wish.

Will Johnson

Tim Powys-Lybbe

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av Tim Powys-Lybbe » 03 sep 2005 19:00:55

In message of 3 Sep, WJhonson@aol.com wrote:

Due to the kind assistance of many persons, and with special thanks
to Leo, we now have a live page for the display of Corrections to
Doug's latest book.

_http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~wjhonson/PAC/_
(http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~wjhonson/PAC/)

Be sure to bookmark it for future reference until such time as Google
can see it.

Please feel free to email me with fixes, suggestions and more
corrections as you wish.

If anyone wants a free copy of PA3 to enable them to add to this, get in
touch as I have one gathering dust here. Though if it is to go more
than a few miles a contribution to the post would be appreciated.

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org
             For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

John Brandon

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av John Brandon » 06 sep 2005 17:39:16

Please remove all items with my name attached. I was not asked about
this and do not agree to it. If people want to consult my suggestions,
they are in the archive.

Thank you,

John Brandon
starbuck95@hotmail.com and/or MRGIFFORD@msn.com


WJhonson@aol.com wrote:
Due to the kind assistance of many persons, and with special thanks to Leo,
we now have a live page for the display of Corrections to Doug's latest book.

_http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~wjhonson/PAC/_
(http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~wjhonson/PAC/)

Be sure to bookmark it for future reference until such time as Google can
see it.

Please feel free to email me with fixes, suggestions and more corrections as
you wish.

Will Johnson

Todd A. Farmerie

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av Todd A. Farmerie » 06 sep 2005 18:27:01

John Brandon wrote:
Please remove all items with my name attached.

Please don't - it will make things more difficult for everyone involved.
However, perhaps some clarification is in order, indicating that the
concerns were "raised by X" (a statement of fact), rather than
"contributed by X" which could imply that active measures were taken by
the person to submit the information to the corrections page. (You
could even link these summaries to the full post(s) which raised the issue.)

If people want to consult my suggestions,
they are in the archive.

Not very convenient, as they won't know a correction regarding their
specific line is in the archive, and we all have experience how wonky
the archives can be from time to time. Certainly it is more helpful to
put all known corrections together in a single location.

taf

John Brandon

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av John Brandon » 06 sep 2005 19:23:09

I will allow the Bigod, Humphrey, and Hawes entries to stand (and I
have a bit more to add on Hawes), but please remove my sections of
Alsop, Asfordby, Battle, Bladen, Bolles, Bosvile, and Skipwith. No
links, no rewording, no nothing.

And, PLEASE, go back in and clean up your multitude of typos--it looks
pretty crappy as it stands. Entries like "Contributed [sic] by John
Brancon" aren't likely to impress someone with a different surname.

Please don't - it will make things more difficult for everyone involved.

How many ding dang people are involved??

Todd A. Farmerie

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av Todd A. Farmerie » 06 sep 2005 19:39:29

John Brandon wrote:
I will allow the Bigod, Humphrey, and Hawes entries to stand (and I
have a bit more to add on Hawes), but please remove my sections of
Alsop, Asfordby, Battle, Bladen, Bolles, Bosvile, and Skipwith. No
links, no rewording, no nothing.

You don't honestly think you can claim the right to prevent people from
linking to your posts, do you?

I just don't get it. What is the benefit of forcing readers to do a
needle-in-a-haystack search among 10 years worth of posts in order to
find useful information that can (in fact, already has) all be brought
together in one place?

taf

John Brandon

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av John Brandon » 06 sep 2005 19:52:02

You don't honestly think you can claim the right to prevent people from
linking to your posts, do you?

No, but--dammit--you do need to ask people's permission to reproduce
their postings! You of all people know this, Todd--you and Paul made
the most outrageous fuss about this a few years back when Finton (or
whoever it was), was reproducing people's postings.

John Brandon

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av John Brandon » 06 sep 2005 20:00:41

And it's foolish of Higgins to say, under *Baynton*, that "[o]f course
this alternative means that the royal descents for Baynton and Gye go
away....oh well.... "

Especially silly as regards Anne Baynton Batt, as she has plenty of
other, rather more spectacular, lines.

Diane Sheppard

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av Diane Sheppard » 06 sep 2005 20:06:51

Dear Group,
I agree that a link to the original post would make the corrections
even more valuable. If this is not possible, corrections should at
least include a date, thereby providing one with enough information for
a proper citation,

Diane Sheppard

norenxaq

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av norenxaq » 06 sep 2005 23:03:01

John Brandon wrote:

You don't honestly think you can claim the right to prevent people from
linking to your posts, do you?

No, but--dammit--you do need to ask people's permission to reproduce
their postings!

posts on any newsgroups will and should be copied by a responder so that the
context is maintained

You of all people know this, Todd--you and Paul made
the most outrageous fuss about this a few years back when Finton (or
whoever it was), was reproducing people's postings.

the difference was that Finton was using material here in a subscription
based journal of his own creation and reprinting discussions on various
topics without asking the posters' consent let alone acquiring it

Leo van de Pas

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 06 sep 2005 23:22:01

Dear Todd,

I do feel confused (at my age not difficult) but John Brandon produced
positive information intended to improve the knowledge about Plantagenet
Ancestry, and now he wants his contribution to be a needle in a haystack?

If I were John Brandon I would be furious if people took a positive
contribution but did not record who so kindly and knowledgeably had provided
it. Also, tell me if I am wrong, when people post in public information,
that information can be used as long as it is not distorted or taken out of
context and acknowledgements are made?

Publishing does mean making public? As English is my second language allow
me to use my dictionary: Public : of or belonging to the people - generally
known - in open view, unconcealed, not private Publish : to put into
circulation. Brandon put his appreciated knowledge into circulation and it
ended up where it was needed, a collection adding to the knowledge of
Richardson's Plantagenet Ancestry. I do not see his problem.

As always, with best wishes.
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd A. Farmerie" <farmerie@interfold.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 4:39 AM
Subject: Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richardson is
now live


John Brandon wrote:
I will allow the Bigod, Humphrey, and Hawes entries to stand (and I
have a bit more to add on Hawes), but please remove my sections of
Alsop, Asfordby, Battle, Bladen, Bolles, Bosvile, and Skipwith. No
links, no rewording, no nothing.

You don't honestly think you can claim the right to prevent people from
linking to your posts, do you?

I just don't get it. What is the benefit of forcing readers to do a
needle-in-a-haystack search among 10 years worth of posts in order to find
useful information that can (in fact, already has) all be brought together
in one place?

taf

Peter Stewart

Re: Corrections To "Plantagenet Ancestry" By Douglas Richard

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 07 sep 2005 00:16:11

"D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zmpTe.953$Bv2.5939@eagle.america.net...
Hilarious!

He won't even correct his own mistakes.

Like Richardson, you mean?

Peter Stewart

Gjest

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av Gjest » 07 sep 2005 00:46:02

In a message dated 9/6/05 12:15:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
bluecolumbine@comcast.net writes:

<< I agree that a link to the original post would make the corrections
even more valuable. If this is not possible, corrections should at
least include a date, thereby providing one with enough information for
a proper citation, >>

I shall hopefully over the next week be able to add dates to the
contributions. I am reliant on another person to assist me in doing that. In the
meantime if anyone finds the appropriate links/dates, I don't have a problem adding
them to the text.
Will johnson

Gjest

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av Gjest » 07 sep 2005 00:49:02

In a message dated 9/6/05 11:35:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
starbuck95@hotmail.com writes:

<< And, PLEASE, go back in and clean up your multitude of typos--it looks
pretty crappy as it stands. Entries like "Contributed [sic] by John
Brancon" aren't likely to impress someone with a different surname. >>

If you do find any typos, it would be helpful if you could cite the specific
page where that typo lives. You don't need to post the full link, just the
heading will suffice. Thanks. And thanks to everyone for their corrections.
Will Johnson

Todd A. Farmerie

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av Todd A. Farmerie » 07 sep 2005 00:59:08

John Brandon wrote:
You don't honestly think you can claim the right to prevent people from
linking to your posts, do you?


No, but--dammit--you do need to ask people's permission to reproduce
their postings!

Outside of fair use, yes, but restating facts or linking to a post, both
of which you also rejected, certainly do not violate fair use.

taf

John Brandon

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av John Brandon » 07 sep 2005 01:03:55

If you do find any typos, it would be helpful if you could cite the specific
page where that typo lives. You don't need to post the full link, just the
heading will suffice.

Start at the first entry and go on to the next, until you come to the
last. There is AT LEAST one typo in each entry. I can't understand
why you wouldn't cut and paste, rather than spend all the time to
re-type the items (poorly).

John Brandon

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av John Brandon » 07 sep 2005 01:10:57

Outside of fair use, yes, but restating facts or linking to a post, both
of which you also rejected, certainly do not violate fair use.

taf

Is this your project, Todd, or Will Jhonson's?

I suppose it's alright if they all remain, but please remove
"contributed by John Brandon," "contributed by John Brancon," or any
other mention or misspelling of my name. You can link to the origin
posting in lieu of crediting me.

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Corrections To "Plantagenet Ancestry" By Douglas Richard

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 07 sep 2005 01:12:02

Hilarious!

He won't even correct his own mistakes.

DSH

<WJhonson@aol.com> wrote in message
news:191.46f04456.304f7695@aol.com...

| In a message dated 9/6/05 11:35:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
| starbuck95@hotmail.com writes:
|
| << And, PLEASE, go back in and clean up your multitude of typos--it
looks
| pretty crappy as it stands. Entries like "Contributed [sic] by John
| Brancon" aren't likely to impress someone with a different surname.
|

| If you do find any typos, it would be helpful if you could cite the
specific
| page where that typo lives. You don't need to post the full link,
just the
| heading will suffice. Thanks. And thanks to everyone for their
corrections.
| Will Johnson

John Brandon

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av John Brandon » 07 sep 2005 01:21:27

Your webpage begins: "This page is a launchpad for corrections to the
recent book "Plantagenet Ancestry: A study in Medieval and Colonial
Families", by Douglas Richardson ..."

This really ought to read "ADDITIONS AND CORRECTIONS," not merely
"corrections." For instance, my entries under "Bigod" and "Bosvile"
merely provide an exact date for marriages Douglas had already
correctly stated.

Gjest

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av Gjest » 07 sep 2005 02:35:02

In a message dated 9/6/05 5:05:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
starbuck95@hotmail.com writes:

<< Start at the first entry and go on to the next, until you come to the
last. There is AT LEAST one typo in each entry. I can't understand
why you wouldn't cut and paste, rather than spend all the time to
re-type the items (poorly). >>

I did cut and paste. However there is a flaw in your assumptions.
I did not cut and paste off SGM or any other on-line source.
I was sent the entire collection of contributions in emails.
I did not retype anything.
Will Johnson

Gjest

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av Gjest » 07 sep 2005 02:36:02

In a message dated 9/6/05 5:15:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
starbuck95@hotmail.com writes:

<< I suppose it's alright if they all remain, but please remove
"contributed by John Brandon," "contributed by John Brancon," or any
other mention or misspelling of my name. You can link to the origin
posting in lieu of crediting me. >>

I will remove all mentions of your name.
Will Johnson

Gjest

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av Gjest » 07 sep 2005 02:45:02

In a message dated 9/6/05 5:35:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
starbuck95@hotmail.com writes:

<< This really ought to read "ADDITIONS AND CORRECTIONS," not merely
"corrections." For instance, my entries under "Bigod" and "Bosvile"
merely provide an exact date for marriages Douglas had already
correctly stated. >>

Done. Thank's for your input :)
Will

Leo van de Pas

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 07 sep 2005 02:54:02

This sounds like semantics to me, by adding you amend/correct the original?

----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richardson is
now live


In a message dated 9/6/05 5:35:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
starbuck95@hotmail.com writes:

This really ought to read "ADDITIONS AND CORRECTIONS," not merely
"corrections." For instance, my entries under "Bigod" and "Bosvile"
merely provide an exact date for marriages Douglas had already
correctly stated.

Done. Thank's for your input :)
Will


Gjest

Re: Corrections To "Plantagenet Ancestry" By Douglas Richard

Legg inn av Gjest » 07 sep 2005 03:48:02

In a message dated 9/6/05 4:15:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
poguemidden@hotmail.com writes:

<< He won't even correct his own mistakes. >>

As I posted a bit ago, but perhaps these email's crossed. These are not my
mistakes. I merely cut and pasted what I was given.
Thank you for your useful comments.
Will Johnson

John Brandon

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av John Brandon » 07 sep 2005 16:06:58

Done. Thank's for your input :)
Will

Thank you.

Here's the rest of the Hawes stuff, if you want to include it. To be
fair to Doug, he has a very good basic account of the family. But I
recently purchased a copy of James Hawes's 1914 genealogy (very
well-done, by the way): and by reading very carefully through the
whole book, I've come up with a few additions. Here's how I would
"write-up" generations 15 and 16:

15. WILLIAM HAWES, gent., of Hillfield Hall (in Solihull),
Warwickshire, son and heir. He was born in 1530 (aged 80 in 1610). He
married _circa_ Sept. 1562 (date of marriage settlement) URSULA COLLES,
daughter of William Colles, of Leigh with Bransford, Worcestershire, by
his wife Margaret Hitch. She was baptized at Leigh with Bransford,
Worcestershire, 21 June 1540 (aged 70 in 1610). They had four sons,
Thomas, William, Edmund, and William (again), and four daughters,
Ursula, Elizabeth (wife of William Sheldon), Ursula (again) (wife of
Raphael Hunt), and Constance (wife of George Dalby). WILLIAM HAWES
died testate (Lichfield probate court) 29 Oct. 1611, and was buried at
Solihull, Warwickshire. His widow, Ursula, died testate (Lichfield
probate court) in October 1615, and was buried 26 Oct. 1615, at
Solihull, Warwickshire.

16. EDMUND HAWES, gent., of Shelley and Hillfield Hall (in Solihull),
Warwickshire, son and heir, was baptized at Stoke Prior,
Worcestershire, 21 April 1573. He married before 1605 JANE PORTER,
daughter of Richard Porter, of Bayham, Sussex, by Jane, daughter of
Robert Whitfield, gent., of Worth, Sussex. She was baptized at Frant,
Sussex, 8 April 1577. They had four sons, William, John, Edmund, and
Thomas, and eight daughters, Jane, Lucy, Ursula, Mary (wife of John
Best), Ursula (again), Anne, Elizabeth (wife of Prosper Nicholas), and
Ruth. EDMUND HAWES was living in 1643 (mentioned in the will of his
brother-in-law, John Porter). His wife, Jane, was living as late as
October 1623 (mentioned in the will of her nephew, John Baker), but may
have died by 1643.

John Brandon

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av John Brandon » 07 sep 2005 16:12:52

This sounds like semantics to me, by add

Semantics aint exactly your strong suit, Leo.

John P. DuLong

Re: Corrections To "Plantagenet Ancestry" By Douglas Richard

Legg inn av John P. DuLong » 08 sep 2005 00:53:53

WJhonson@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 9/6/05 4:15:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
poguemidden@hotmail.com writes:

He won't even correct his own mistakes.

As I posted a bit ago, but perhaps these email's crossed. These are not my
mistakes. I merely cut and pasted what I was given.
Thank you for your useful comments.
Will Johnson


Dear Mr. Johnson,

I do not own Mr. Richardson's book, I have not yet seen it, I do not
even know if I will find it of value or not at all helpful in my mostly
French research, nevertheless, I for one would like to thank you for
attempting to concentrate the additions and corrections to this work in
one place. I am sure you will work the bugs out of your web site by
taking the best from the criticism of your effort and forgetting the rest.

Just remember: No act of kindness will go unpunished!

JP

Gjest

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av Gjest » 10 sep 2005 06:19:26

The following item provides further proof of the parentage of
Edward Rainsford of Massachusetts.

The Winthrop papers state that Edward's master was
Owen Roe of London.

The apprenticeship register for the Haberdashers Company of London
shows that

"Edrus Raynsford filius Robti Raynsford de Staverton in Com Northton
Armiger poss Owen Rowe civi et haberds London pro termino octo Annor a
festo Penticosti ult dat ix die" June 1626


Leslie

John Brandon

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av John Brandon » 10 sep 2005 16:18:53

Very nice! Now the origin has been proved.

Gjest

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av Gjest » 10 sep 2005 17:05:16

I suppose the item is important enough
that I should have it 'officially' published.

Leslie

John Brandon

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av John Brandon » 10 sep 2005 17:26:53

I suppose the item is important enough that I should have it 'officially' published.

True that.

John Brandon

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av John Brandon » 27 sep 2005 20:47:07

The following item provides further proof of the parentage of
Edward Rainsford of Massachusetts.

The Winthrop papers state that Edward's master was
Owen Roe of London.

The apprenticeship register for the Haberdashers Company of London
shows that

"Edrus Raynsford filius Robti Raynsford de Staverton in Com Northton
Armiger poss Owen Rowe civi et haberds London pro termino octo Annor a
festo Penticosti ult dat ix die" June 1626


Apparently this Owen Rowe was himself a Regicide (see new DNB). His
son Nathaniel is said to have come to New England ....


Rowe, Owen (1592/3-1661), merchant and regicide, was one of seven sons
of John Rowe (d. before 1613), yeoman, of Bickley, Chester. On 11
August 1609 he was apprenticed for eight years to Edward Pickering,
citizen and haberdasher of London. He was listed as a haberdasher, of
All Hallows, Honey Lane, aged twenty-four, when he married Mary (b.
1589, d. in or before 1641), daughter of the merchant tailor John
Yeoman on 4 February 1617.

Rowe was a member of St Stephen's parish, Coleman Street, a stronghold
of Independent puritan sentiment. In 1629 he became a member of the
Massachusetts Bay Company and invested at least £500 in the colony
over the next six years. Although in February 1635 he told Governor
John Winthrop that 'as soon as it shall please God to send in my
debts ... I am for your parte', Rowe remained in London (T.
Hutchinson, Hutchinson Papers, 2 vols., 1865, 1.65-6). The following
year he backed the efforts of his neighbour John Davenport to establish
an Independent puritan colony in New Haven, Connecticut. Despite the
inducement of a town lot in New Haven, Rowe stayed in London, but his
son Nathaniel emigrated to the new colony in 1637.

Gjest

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av Gjest » 28 sep 2005 01:42:36

Thanks for the interesting details,
which gives some explanation as to why Rainsford emigrated.

I didnt see Nathaniel Rowe / Roe listed in Savages Dictionary,
but I did find a will for John Yeomans.

It looks I'll be publishing something in NEHGR: a will which proves the

English ancestry of Judith (Everard) wife of Samuel Appleton.

Leslie

John Brandon

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av John Brandon » 28 sep 2005 15:03:05

It looks I'll be publishing something in NEHGR: a will which proves the
English ancestry of Judith (Everard) wife of Samuel Appleton.

Leslie

It's good you are publishing these final pieces of evidence that
*prove* suspected connections, like Raynsford and Everard-Appleton ...

Gjest

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av Gjest » 30 sep 2005 08:15:45

I suppose the Rainsford item should be officially published,
which can be done easily.

Eventually, I'll have to look further into the ancestry of
colonist Leonard Chester.
I know his Sharpe grandfather left an IPM, but no will.
Also, Leonard's marriage was located by Charles Banks
decades ago, but is not widely known.

Leslie

John Brandon

Re: Corrections to "Plantagenet Ancestry" by Douglas Richard

Legg inn av John Brandon » 30 sep 2005 17:32:30

Eventually, I'll have to look further into the ancestry of colonist Leonard Chester. I know his Sharpe grandfather left an IPM, but no will.
Also, Leonard's marriage was located by Charles Banks decades ago, but

is not widely known.

I remember you mentioning that.

If you get a 'wild hair,' and want to publish the ref. to Anne Baynton
Batt from the _Clarendon Papers_, please feel free to. It might be
interesting for descendants, in view of Charles Fitch-Northen's note
that showed Christopher Batt as a close cousin of Clarendon's.

Or was the thing from the _Clarendon Papers_ already in Walter Davis's
write-ups?

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