Bekering of Nottinghamshire
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Gjest
Bekering of Nottinghamshire
Ancestral to the Cheyneys of Fen Ditton and the Haseldens of Morden,
Cambs, are the Bekering family of Nottinghamshire. Herewith a first
draft with plenty of room for improvement:
1. - de Bekering, presumably dead by 7 Edward I; married Mary, I.P.M.
by writ dated 8 September 7 Edward I (Cal. IPMs Vol 2 #313) "lands at
Catteworth, Hunts; she died Thursday after the Decollation of St John
the Baptist; Sir Thomas Bekering her son aged 30 (sic) is her next
heir; in Nottinghamshire: Bolum, Lytledon, Bradeford, Middleton, the
manor of Hernham; heir: as above, aged 40 (sic)". Issue:
2. Sir Thomas de Bekering, heir to his mother, c1278; IPM 3 December 16
Edward I (Cal. IPMs Vol 2 #679) "Huntingdonshire: Quetwell, Stoew,
Estoew, Little Catheworth, and the advowson of Catherworth;
Northumberland: East Hertwailon, Thorneburg, one half advowson by turn
of Bolum" [no details given as to heir]. Issue:
3. Thomas de Bekering, born circa 1275, as per Proof of Age [Cal. IPMs
Vol 3 #435; Coram Rege Roll, 25 Ed I rot 30] "Proof of age of Thomas
son and heir of Thomas de Bekering, at Westminster, 25 Edward I. He
was born at Bekering and baptised in the church there; he was born on
the feast of St Thomas the Apostle next following St Michael's feast 21
years ago. [The wife of Nicholas de Haulay of Houton-by-Bekering was
his nurse] and suckled him"; one of this name granted a life estate
over a messuage and lands at Tuxford, Notts, 17 Edward II [PRO C
143/164/4].
*************
(brother of the foregoing?)
1. John de Bekering, IPM Saturday after St Bartholomew 3 Edward III
(1329) [Cal. IPMs Vol 7 #199, p 153]: Nottinghamshire: 15 acres and
another 45 acres at Wiston; John his son and heir aged 22 is next heir
of the land held in chief; the other lands are partible and ought to be
shared between John son of John, and Thomas, Robert, Leonard and
William, brothers and co-heirs of the said John". Issue:
2a. Sir John de Bekering, heir to his father, 1329; held the lands at
'Osewardesbeksokene', Notts, of the late Laurence de Hastings, Earl of
Pembroke during the minority of the latters heir, 1350 [Cal. Patent
Rolls, 20 October 1350]
2b. Thomas de Bekering, coheir to lands at Wiston, 1329
2c. Robert de Bekering, coheir to lands at Wiston, 1329
2d. Leonard de Bekering, coheir to lands at Wiston, 1329
2e. William de Bekering, coheir to lands at Wiston, 1329
*****************
1. Thomas de Bekering, possibly to be identified with 2b. above;
presumably the one of this name escheator of Notts & Derby, 1346 [PRO E
153/258, 2030], and Sheriff of Derby, 1348 [Cal. Patent Rolls, 29
January 1348]; dead by 1356: "Pardon to Robert de Herle in
consideration of good service to the King and his son John, Earl of
Richmond, of £100 wherein he is held to the King in arrears of the
rent of £50 which he should render at the Exchequer for the keeping of
the lands late of Thomas de Bekeryng, chivaler, during the nonage of
John, the son and heir" [Cal. Patent Rolls, 1 October 1356]; but cf
Edward III presented John de Derby to the living of 'Catteworth Magna'
12 July 1368, "by reason of the keeping of the lands and heir of Thomas
de Bekeryng, who held in chief, being lately in his hand" [Cal. Patent
Rolls] - perhaps another TB? Married Isabel, living 1347 [PRO SC
8/13/647B]. Issue:
2. Sir John de Bekering, born circa 1339; Proof of Age, 24 November 34
Edward III (1360) [Cal. IPMs Vol 10 #641, p 540] "At Laxton, Notts:
John, son and heir of Thomas de Bekering; William de Hakenthorp aged 50
says the said John was 21 years of age at the feast of St Laurence
last, having been born on that feast 13 Edward III and baptised in the
church there (sic) on the same day; he [WH] was with Thomas, father of
the said John, as his esquire and was sent for the Abbot of Rufford to
baptise him"; dead by 1387, and probably by 1376, presuming he is the
"John de Bekering, chivaler" whose Lincolnshire lands were granted in
wardship to Sir John Knyvet, with the marriage of the heir, 12 October
1376 [Cal. Patent Rolls]; married Joan, living in 1387: [Cal. IPMs Vol
XVI #516] "15 November 11 Richard II (1387) Joan, sometime wife of John
de Bekering, knight, holds Langwath manor and Laxton, Notts, and
Catworth, Hunts, by dower - reversion to Thomas de Bekering and his
heirs; he died in parts beyond the seas Thursday after St Barnabas, 9
Richard II; his son Thomas aged four years and more". Issue:
3. Sir Thomas de Bekering, erroneously thought to be dead and an IPM
held, 15 November 1387, but appeared alive 1388 [Cal. Patent Rolls, 13
March 1388]; had licence to grant one third of the manor of Tuxford,
Notts, to feofees, 20 November 1388 [Cal. Patent Rolls]; married
Elizabeth, living 1391 [PRO SC 8/97/4804]. Issue:
4. Thomas de Bekering, born circa 1383; heir to his father, 1387;
living 1413: "Thomas Bekeryng, esquire, of Co Nottingham to Stonely
Priory: confirmation and quitclaim of land in Wekewelle, Stonely,
Wornditch & Newton-in-Kimbolton, Hunts, 1 Henry V" [PRO E 210/6235] and
8 Henry V when grantee of lands at 'Gatworth Magna in the counties of
Northampton & Huntingdon' [PRO E 210/1002]; one of this name, either
this or his father, commissioned with Thomas de Rempston against the
Welsh rebels, 17 March 1406 [Cal. Patent Rolls]; said by Roskell to
have died 31 August 1425 [History of Parliament 1386-1421 Vol IV sub
Rempston]; married Isabel, daughter and (after her brother's death,
1390) coheir to Sir John Loudham [HoP 1386-1421 Vol IV sub Rempston;
cf Vis. Cambs 1575/1619 p 119 sub Cheney: "Margaret d of Sr John
Lowdham"].
(One chronological aspect here needs to be checked: elsewhere in SGM
Isabel Bekering is said to be daughter of Sir John Loudham by Isabel le
Breton, whose father's IPM at Cal. IPM Vol IX Edward III #567 states
she was born circa 1324 - how could she have had a daughter married to
a man born circa 1383?)
Issue of Thomas & Isabel:
5. Alice Bekering, daughter and heir [Vis. Cambs], "born circa 1395"
[Roskell, op. cit. but I suspect this must be later, perhaps
c1400-1405]; "married by circa 1418" [Roskell, op. cit.] Sir Thomas
Rempston, MP, son of Sir Thomas Rempston, KG by Margaret Foljambe nee
Keeke; heiress of Walton & Brimington, Derbyshire; Tuxford, Laxton,
Bilsthorpe & Lowdham, Notts; Honington, Winterton & Marton, Lincs;
Catworth, Hunts, and Farnborough & Avon Dassett, Warwickshire
[Roskell]. Three daughters and coheirs:
6a. Margaret Rempston, married Richard Bingham [Vis. Cambs]
6b. Isabel Rempston, married Sir Brian Stapleton [Vis. Cambs]
6c. Elizabeth Rempston, married [Vis. Cambs] Sir John Cheney, of Fen
Ditton, son of Sir Lawrence Cheney and Elizabeth Cokayne, will proved
P.C.C. 21 July 1489 [PROB 11/8]. Issue:
7a. Sir Thomas Cheney, of Attleborough, Norfolk; married Elizabeth,
daughter of Sir William Parr, KG, and left issue, Elizabeth, daughter
and heir, married to Thomas, Lord Vaux of Hawdon, Northants [Vis.
Cambs]: "Indenture as to uses: (1) Sir Nicholas Vaus, kt, and Dame Anne
his wife, and (2) Sir Thomas Cheyne, kt, Thomas Vaus, son and heir
apparent of Sir Nicholas and Dame Anne, to marry Elizabeth, daughter
and heir apparent (sic) of Sir Thomas Cheyne, when Thomas is 17. Sir
Thomas to leave in his will the manors of Brenbroughton, with the
advowson of the church, Hawton, Bekeryng, Hawton-upon-Humber and
Wynterton, 6 May 1511" [PRO E 328/89]
7b. William Cheney, married Elizabeth Wentworth and had issue [Vis.
Cambs]
7c. Mary Cheney, married John Allington [Vis. Cambs]
7d. Elizabeth Cheney, married John Hasilden [Vis. Cambs]
7e. Catherine Cheney, married Henry Barley [Vis. Cambs]
7f. Anne Cheney, married John Appleyard [Vis. Cambs]
Arms of Bekering: Chequy, gules and or, over all a bend sable.
MAR
Cambs, are the Bekering family of Nottinghamshire. Herewith a first
draft with plenty of room for improvement:
1. - de Bekering, presumably dead by 7 Edward I; married Mary, I.P.M.
by writ dated 8 September 7 Edward I (Cal. IPMs Vol 2 #313) "lands at
Catteworth, Hunts; she died Thursday after the Decollation of St John
the Baptist; Sir Thomas Bekering her son aged 30 (sic) is her next
heir; in Nottinghamshire: Bolum, Lytledon, Bradeford, Middleton, the
manor of Hernham; heir: as above, aged 40 (sic)". Issue:
2. Sir Thomas de Bekering, heir to his mother, c1278; IPM 3 December 16
Edward I (Cal. IPMs Vol 2 #679) "Huntingdonshire: Quetwell, Stoew,
Estoew, Little Catheworth, and the advowson of Catherworth;
Northumberland: East Hertwailon, Thorneburg, one half advowson by turn
of Bolum" [no details given as to heir]. Issue:
3. Thomas de Bekering, born circa 1275, as per Proof of Age [Cal. IPMs
Vol 3 #435; Coram Rege Roll, 25 Ed I rot 30] "Proof of age of Thomas
son and heir of Thomas de Bekering, at Westminster, 25 Edward I. He
was born at Bekering and baptised in the church there; he was born on
the feast of St Thomas the Apostle next following St Michael's feast 21
years ago. [The wife of Nicholas de Haulay of Houton-by-Bekering was
his nurse] and suckled him"; one of this name granted a life estate
over a messuage and lands at Tuxford, Notts, 17 Edward II [PRO C
143/164/4].
*************
(brother of the foregoing?)
1. John de Bekering, IPM Saturday after St Bartholomew 3 Edward III
(1329) [Cal. IPMs Vol 7 #199, p 153]: Nottinghamshire: 15 acres and
another 45 acres at Wiston; John his son and heir aged 22 is next heir
of the land held in chief; the other lands are partible and ought to be
shared between John son of John, and Thomas, Robert, Leonard and
William, brothers and co-heirs of the said John". Issue:
2a. Sir John de Bekering, heir to his father, 1329; held the lands at
'Osewardesbeksokene', Notts, of the late Laurence de Hastings, Earl of
Pembroke during the minority of the latters heir, 1350 [Cal. Patent
Rolls, 20 October 1350]
2b. Thomas de Bekering, coheir to lands at Wiston, 1329
2c. Robert de Bekering, coheir to lands at Wiston, 1329
2d. Leonard de Bekering, coheir to lands at Wiston, 1329
2e. William de Bekering, coheir to lands at Wiston, 1329
*****************
1. Thomas de Bekering, possibly to be identified with 2b. above;
presumably the one of this name escheator of Notts & Derby, 1346 [PRO E
153/258, 2030], and Sheriff of Derby, 1348 [Cal. Patent Rolls, 29
January 1348]; dead by 1356: "Pardon to Robert de Herle in
consideration of good service to the King and his son John, Earl of
Richmond, of £100 wherein he is held to the King in arrears of the
rent of £50 which he should render at the Exchequer for the keeping of
the lands late of Thomas de Bekeryng, chivaler, during the nonage of
John, the son and heir" [Cal. Patent Rolls, 1 October 1356]; but cf
Edward III presented John de Derby to the living of 'Catteworth Magna'
12 July 1368, "by reason of the keeping of the lands and heir of Thomas
de Bekeryng, who held in chief, being lately in his hand" [Cal. Patent
Rolls] - perhaps another TB? Married Isabel, living 1347 [PRO SC
8/13/647B]. Issue:
2. Sir John de Bekering, born circa 1339; Proof of Age, 24 November 34
Edward III (1360) [Cal. IPMs Vol 10 #641, p 540] "At Laxton, Notts:
John, son and heir of Thomas de Bekering; William de Hakenthorp aged 50
says the said John was 21 years of age at the feast of St Laurence
last, having been born on that feast 13 Edward III and baptised in the
church there (sic) on the same day; he [WH] was with Thomas, father of
the said John, as his esquire and was sent for the Abbot of Rufford to
baptise him"; dead by 1387, and probably by 1376, presuming he is the
"John de Bekering, chivaler" whose Lincolnshire lands were granted in
wardship to Sir John Knyvet, with the marriage of the heir, 12 October
1376 [Cal. Patent Rolls]; married Joan, living in 1387: [Cal. IPMs Vol
XVI #516] "15 November 11 Richard II (1387) Joan, sometime wife of John
de Bekering, knight, holds Langwath manor and Laxton, Notts, and
Catworth, Hunts, by dower - reversion to Thomas de Bekering and his
heirs; he died in parts beyond the seas Thursday after St Barnabas, 9
Richard II; his son Thomas aged four years and more". Issue:
3. Sir Thomas de Bekering, erroneously thought to be dead and an IPM
held, 15 November 1387, but appeared alive 1388 [Cal. Patent Rolls, 13
March 1388]; had licence to grant one third of the manor of Tuxford,
Notts, to feofees, 20 November 1388 [Cal. Patent Rolls]; married
Elizabeth, living 1391 [PRO SC 8/97/4804]. Issue:
4. Thomas de Bekering, born circa 1383; heir to his father, 1387;
living 1413: "Thomas Bekeryng, esquire, of Co Nottingham to Stonely
Priory: confirmation and quitclaim of land in Wekewelle, Stonely,
Wornditch & Newton-in-Kimbolton, Hunts, 1 Henry V" [PRO E 210/6235] and
8 Henry V when grantee of lands at 'Gatworth Magna in the counties of
Northampton & Huntingdon' [PRO E 210/1002]; one of this name, either
this or his father, commissioned with Thomas de Rempston against the
Welsh rebels, 17 March 1406 [Cal. Patent Rolls]; said by Roskell to
have died 31 August 1425 [History of Parliament 1386-1421 Vol IV sub
Rempston]; married Isabel, daughter and (after her brother's death,
1390) coheir to Sir John Loudham [HoP 1386-1421 Vol IV sub Rempston;
cf Vis. Cambs 1575/1619 p 119 sub Cheney: "Margaret d of Sr John
Lowdham"].
(One chronological aspect here needs to be checked: elsewhere in SGM
Isabel Bekering is said to be daughter of Sir John Loudham by Isabel le
Breton, whose father's IPM at Cal. IPM Vol IX Edward III #567 states
she was born circa 1324 - how could she have had a daughter married to
a man born circa 1383?)
Issue of Thomas & Isabel:
5. Alice Bekering, daughter and heir [Vis. Cambs], "born circa 1395"
[Roskell, op. cit. but I suspect this must be later, perhaps
c1400-1405]; "married by circa 1418" [Roskell, op. cit.] Sir Thomas
Rempston, MP, son of Sir Thomas Rempston, KG by Margaret Foljambe nee
Keeke; heiress of Walton & Brimington, Derbyshire; Tuxford, Laxton,
Bilsthorpe & Lowdham, Notts; Honington, Winterton & Marton, Lincs;
Catworth, Hunts, and Farnborough & Avon Dassett, Warwickshire
[Roskell]. Three daughters and coheirs:
6a. Margaret Rempston, married Richard Bingham [Vis. Cambs]
6b. Isabel Rempston, married Sir Brian Stapleton [Vis. Cambs]
6c. Elizabeth Rempston, married [Vis. Cambs] Sir John Cheney, of Fen
Ditton, son of Sir Lawrence Cheney and Elizabeth Cokayne, will proved
P.C.C. 21 July 1489 [PROB 11/8]. Issue:
7a. Sir Thomas Cheney, of Attleborough, Norfolk; married Elizabeth,
daughter of Sir William Parr, KG, and left issue, Elizabeth, daughter
and heir, married to Thomas, Lord Vaux of Hawdon, Northants [Vis.
Cambs]: "Indenture as to uses: (1) Sir Nicholas Vaus, kt, and Dame Anne
his wife, and (2) Sir Thomas Cheyne, kt, Thomas Vaus, son and heir
apparent of Sir Nicholas and Dame Anne, to marry Elizabeth, daughter
and heir apparent (sic) of Sir Thomas Cheyne, when Thomas is 17. Sir
Thomas to leave in his will the manors of Brenbroughton, with the
advowson of the church, Hawton, Bekeryng, Hawton-upon-Humber and
Wynterton, 6 May 1511" [PRO E 328/89]
7b. William Cheney, married Elizabeth Wentworth and had issue [Vis.
Cambs]
7c. Mary Cheney, married John Allington [Vis. Cambs]
7d. Elizabeth Cheney, married John Hasilden [Vis. Cambs]
7e. Catherine Cheney, married Henry Barley [Vis. Cambs]
7f. Anne Cheney, married John Appleyard [Vis. Cambs]
Arms of Bekering: Chequy, gules and or, over all a bend sable.
MAR
-
Gjest
Re: Bekering of Nottinghamshire
3. Sir Thomas de Bekering, erroneously thought to be dead, 1387, but
appeared alive 1388; married Elizabeth, living 1391. Issue:
4. Thomas de Bekering, born c 1383; heir to his father, 1387;
living 1413: "Thomas Bekeryng, esquire, of Co Nottingham...", and 8
Henry V; one of this name, commissioned with Thomas de Rempston against
the
Welsh rebels, 1406; said to have died 1425; married Isabel, daughter
and coheir to Sir John Loudham.
I compare these two entries with Item DD/FJ/4/2/2 dated 1402-3 from the
Foljambe papers as detailed on A2A; this refers to "Thomas Bekeryng,
husband of late Isabel, as above"; the previous reference is "Thos
Bekeryng, husband of Isabel, daughter of Sir John de Loudham, kt". but
purports to be dated 1 November 1339 (sic) - perhaps this is a
typographical error for 1389?
There is a third document which is not dated to said to be from circa
1400 (DD/FJ/9/3/2): "Sworn declaration of John Somersale, Rob.
Schirbroke and Nich. de Schaw, as to tenure of manor of Walton by Thos.
Foljambe and Thos. de Bekeryng by knight's service of honour of
Peverell; TF holds 1/2 in right of dower of Margaret le Souche".
Presumably this indicates that Thomas and Isabel [?=Elizabeth ff 1391]
de Loudham were married by 1389, and that Isabel was dead by 1402-3.
Thomas Foljambe married her sister and the other coheir of Sir John
Lowdham. Was Alice, the wife of the younger Sir Thomas Rempston, the
daughter, or sister, and heir of the younger Thomas Bekering (#4 above,
born c1383)?
appeared alive 1388; married Elizabeth, living 1391. Issue:
4. Thomas de Bekering, born c 1383; heir to his father, 1387;
living 1413: "Thomas Bekeryng, esquire, of Co Nottingham...", and 8
Henry V; one of this name, commissioned with Thomas de Rempston against
the
Welsh rebels, 1406; said to have died 1425; married Isabel, daughter
and coheir to Sir John Loudham.
I compare these two entries with Item DD/FJ/4/2/2 dated 1402-3 from the
Foljambe papers as detailed on A2A; this refers to "Thomas Bekeryng,
husband of late Isabel, as above"; the previous reference is "Thos
Bekeryng, husband of Isabel, daughter of Sir John de Loudham, kt". but
purports to be dated 1 November 1339 (sic) - perhaps this is a
typographical error for 1389?
There is a third document which is not dated to said to be from circa
1400 (DD/FJ/9/3/2): "Sworn declaration of John Somersale, Rob.
Schirbroke and Nich. de Schaw, as to tenure of manor of Walton by Thos.
Foljambe and Thos. de Bekeryng by knight's service of honour of
Peverell; TF holds 1/2 in right of dower of Margaret le Souche".
Presumably this indicates that Thomas and Isabel [?=Elizabeth ff 1391]
de Loudham were married by 1389, and that Isabel was dead by 1402-3.
Thomas Foljambe married her sister and the other coheir of Sir John
Lowdham. Was Alice, the wife of the younger Sir Thomas Rempston, the
daughter, or sister, and heir of the younger Thomas Bekering (#4 above,
born c1383)?
-
Gjest
Re: Bekering of Nottinghamshire
Many thanks for that Will - I didn't know there was a DNB reference for
Thomas Vaux.
Burkes Peerage (2003) Vol III sub "Vaux of Harrowden" p 3982 says
"Thomas Vaux, 2nd Baron Vaux of Harrowden, KB (1533), born 25.4.1509;
[s. father, cr. 1st Baron 27.4.1523, on latter's death, 14.5.1523 - he
didn't "enjoy" his peerage for long!]; Gov. Jersey, Jan 1525/6 (sic);
married between 25 April and 10 November 1523 Elizabeth, daughter &
heiress of Sir Thomas Cheyne of Fen Ditton & Irthlingborough, Northants
(she died 20.11.1556) and died 1556"; it only names his son &
successor, William.
Regardless of the Irthlingborough, Norfolk references, the Visitation
of Cambridgeshire does say Sir Thomas Cheney was "of Atilborough in
Norff." [Attleborough, Norfolk].
Michael
Thomas Vaux.
Burkes Peerage (2003) Vol III sub "Vaux of Harrowden" p 3982 says
"Thomas Vaux, 2nd Baron Vaux of Harrowden, KB (1533), born 25.4.1509;
[s. father, cr. 1st Baron 27.4.1523, on latter's death, 14.5.1523 - he
didn't "enjoy" his peerage for long!]; Gov. Jersey, Jan 1525/6 (sic);
married between 25 April and 10 November 1523 Elizabeth, daughter &
heiress of Sir Thomas Cheyne of Fen Ditton & Irthlingborough, Northants
(she died 20.11.1556) and died 1556"; it only names his son &
successor, William.
Regardless of the Irthlingborough, Norfolk references, the Visitation
of Cambridgeshire does say Sir Thomas Cheney was "of Atilborough in
Norff." [Attleborough, Norfolk].
Michael
-
Gjest
Re: Bekering of Nottinghamshire
In a message dated 8/31/05 2:03:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
mjcar@btinternet.com writes:
<< 7a. Sir Thomas Cheney, of Attleborough, Norfolk; married Elizabeth,
daughter of Sir William Parr, KG, and left issue, Elizabeth, daughter
and heir, married to Thomas, Lord Vaux of Hawdon, Northants [Vis.
Cambs]: "Indenture as to uses: (1) Sir Nicholas Vaus, kt, and Dame Anne
his wife, and (2) Sir Thomas Cheyne, kt, Thomas Vaus, son and heir
apparent of Sir Nicholas and Dame Anne, to marry Elizabeth, daughter
and heir apparent (sic) of Sir Thomas Cheyne, when Thomas is 17. Sir
Thomas to leave in his will the manors of Brenbroughton, with the
advowson of the church, Hawton, Bekeryng, Hawton-upon-Humber and
Wynterton, 6 May 1511" [PRO E 328/89] >>
DNB "Vaux, Thomas" says he is a Knt of Irthlingborough
I also have his daughter Elizabeth born in 1515. I'm not sure what this is
based on, so I'll have to review it again in light of the above document.
Will Johnson
mjcar@btinternet.com writes:
<< 7a. Sir Thomas Cheney, of Attleborough, Norfolk; married Elizabeth,
daughter of Sir William Parr, KG, and left issue, Elizabeth, daughter
and heir, married to Thomas, Lord Vaux of Hawdon, Northants [Vis.
Cambs]: "Indenture as to uses: (1) Sir Nicholas Vaus, kt, and Dame Anne
his wife, and (2) Sir Thomas Cheyne, kt, Thomas Vaus, son and heir
apparent of Sir Nicholas and Dame Anne, to marry Elizabeth, daughter
and heir apparent (sic) of Sir Thomas Cheyne, when Thomas is 17. Sir
Thomas to leave in his will the manors of Brenbroughton, with the
advowson of the church, Hawton, Bekeryng, Hawton-upon-Humber and
Wynterton, 6 May 1511" [PRO E 328/89] >>
DNB "Vaux, Thomas" says he is a Knt of Irthlingborough
I also have his daughter Elizabeth born in 1515. I'm not sure what this is
based on, so I'll have to review it again in light of the above document.
Will Johnson
-
Gjest
Re: Bekering of Nottinghamshire
I have reviewed again the DNB entry on "Vaux, Thomas"
It states he was born in 1510 and later says his wife Elizabeth "was five
years his junior". DNB does not include fact-source-citations, only lumping all
citations at the end of the article, so it's not possible for me to determine
what source this five year gap is based upon.
However, it appears DNB must be wrong since the espousal in 1511 clearly
states that Elizabeth is the daughter of Thomas Cheney. I suppose he could have
had another daughter named Elizabeth, but for now, I'm going to update my
database to show that she was born bef the date of this espousal document.
On another note, there is a DNB article for "Vaux, Anne" which states (and
which I did not have) that William, 3rd Lord Vaux was married firstly to
Elizabeth Beaumont. Leo has a wife Mary Tresham. It further states that Anne's
sister was Eleanor (Vaux) Brooksby. [She married Edward Brooksby]. I would
imagine this might mean that George Vaux also is off Elizabeth, not Mary. Leo
has an EST birth for him in 1564 and his heir Edward was b 13 Sep 1588 which
doesn't leave much wiggle room
Comments appreciated.
Will Johnson
It states he was born in 1510 and later says his wife Elizabeth "was five
years his junior". DNB does not include fact-source-citations, only lumping all
citations at the end of the article, so it's not possible for me to determine
what source this five year gap is based upon.
However, it appears DNB must be wrong since the espousal in 1511 clearly
states that Elizabeth is the daughter of Thomas Cheney. I suppose he could have
had another daughter named Elizabeth, but for now, I'm going to update my
database to show that she was born bef the date of this espousal document.
On another note, there is a DNB article for "Vaux, Anne" which states (and
which I did not have) that William, 3rd Lord Vaux was married firstly to
Elizabeth Beaumont. Leo has a wife Mary Tresham. It further states that Anne's
sister was Eleanor (Vaux) Brooksby. [She married Edward Brooksby]. I would
imagine this might mean that George Vaux also is off Elizabeth, not Mary. Leo
has an EST birth for him in 1564 and his heir Edward was b 13 Sep 1588 which
doesn't leave much wiggle room
Comments appreciated.
Will Johnson
-
Gjest
Re: Bekering of Nottinghamshire
In a message dated 8/31/05 3:03:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
mjcar@btinternet.com writes:
<< and died 1556"; it only names his son &
successor, William. >>
DNB adds that Thomas Vaux died in October
and that he "was probably" buried at Harrowden
On his children: William, Nicholas, Anne and Maud
No futher information on the other three children.
Will Johnson
mjcar@btinternet.com writes:
<< and died 1556"; it only names his son &
successor, William. >>
DNB adds that Thomas Vaux died in October
and that he "was probably" buried at Harrowden
On his children: William, Nicholas, Anne and Maud
No futher information on the other three children.
Will Johnson
-
Gjest
Re: Bekering of Nottinghamshire
Actually that's odd ....
DNB "Vaux, Thomas" states that he was born in 1510
but then goes on to say "not having yet complete his *thirteenth* year
[emphasis mine] he accompanied Wolsey on his embassey in 1527 ..."
I wonder if perhaps the "five year gap" between him and his wife might not be
in the opposite direction? Or we here have another DNB error, he was not yet
18 per Burke's Peerage (2003)
Will Johnson
DNB "Vaux, Thomas" states that he was born in 1510
but then goes on to say "not having yet complete his *thirteenth* year
[emphasis mine] he accompanied Wolsey on his embassey in 1527 ..."
I wonder if perhaps the "five year gap" between him and his wife might not be
in the opposite direction? Or we here have another DNB error, he was not yet
18 per Burke's Peerage (2003)
Will Johnson
-
Gjest
Re: Bekering of Nottinghamshire
It is probably worth while looking at "Vaux of Harrowden" by Geoffrey
Anstruther, 1953
There is a copy in the S of G library
I didn't make many notes on Thoams Vaux, 2nd Baron because my interest was
in earlier generations
p38 mentions that Thomas, 2nd Lord had 3 half sisters and three younger
sisters, Margaret, Maud and Bridget
p36 Nicholas had risen from extreme poverty to become the friend of Kings.
He had grown rich by the normal Tudor methods; by judicious marriages, by
substituting sheep for crops and by deftly stepping into attainted men's
shoes. His will bears witness to his deep attachment to the Faith
Cheers
Simon
Anstruther, 1953
There is a copy in the S of G library
I didn't make many notes on Thoams Vaux, 2nd Baron because my interest was
in earlier generations
p38 mentions that Thomas, 2nd Lord had 3 half sisters and three younger
sisters, Margaret, Maud and Bridget
p36 Nicholas had risen from extreme poverty to become the friend of Kings.
He had grown rich by the normal Tudor methods; by judicious marriages, by
substituting sheep for crops and by deftly stepping into attainted men's
shoes. His will bears witness to his deep attachment to the Faith
Cheers
Simon
Burkes Peerage (2003) Vol III sub "Vaux of Harrowden" p 3982 says
"Thomas Vaux, 2nd Baron Vaux of Harrowden, KB (1533), born 25.4.1509;
[s. father, cr. 1st Baron 27.4.1523, on latter's death, 14.5.1523 - he
didn't "enjoy" his peerage for long!]; Gov. Jersey, Jan 1525/6 (sic);
married between 25 April and 10 November 1523 Elizabeth, daughter &
heiress of Sir Thomas Cheyne of Fen Ditton & Irthlingborough, Northants
(she died 20.11.1556) and died 1556"; it only names his son &
successor, William.
Regardless of the Irthlingborough, Norfolk references, the Visitation
of Cambridgeshire does say Sir Thomas Cheney was "of Atilborough in
Norff." [Attleborough, Norfolk].
Michael
-
Sutliff
Re: Bekering of Nottinghamshire
<snip>
5. Alice Bekering, daughter and heir [Vis. Cambs], "born circa 1395"
[Roskell, op. cit. but I suspect this must be later, perhaps
c1400-1405]; "married by circa 1418" [Roskell, op. cit.] Sir Thomas
Rempston, MP, son of Sir Thomas Rempston, KG by Margaret Foljambe nee
Keeke; heiress of Walton & Brimington, Derbyshire; Tuxford, Laxton,
Bilsthorpe & Lowdham, Notts; Honington, Winterton & Marton, Lincs;
Catworth, Hunts, and Farnborough & Avon Dassett, Warwickshire
[Roskell]. Three daughters and coheirs:
<snip>
The mother of Alice Bekering was Margaret Leek (not Keeke), daughter of Sir
Simon Leek (d. abt. 1382) of Leake, Notts and his wife Margaret Vaux of
Cotham (d. of Sir John Vaux d. 1349).
See Payling 325
HOP 1386-1421 IV:189-190
Thoroton
5. Alice Bekering, daughter and heir [Vis. Cambs], "born circa 1395"
[Roskell, op. cit. but I suspect this must be later, perhaps
c1400-1405]; "married by circa 1418" [Roskell, op. cit.] Sir Thomas
Rempston, MP, son of Sir Thomas Rempston, KG by Margaret Foljambe nee
Keeke; heiress of Walton & Brimington, Derbyshire; Tuxford, Laxton,
Bilsthorpe & Lowdham, Notts; Honington, Winterton & Marton, Lincs;
Catworth, Hunts, and Farnborough & Avon Dassett, Warwickshire
[Roskell]. Three daughters and coheirs:
<snip>
The mother of Alice Bekering was Margaret Leek (not Keeke), daughter of Sir
Simon Leek (d. abt. 1382) of Leake, Notts and his wife Margaret Vaux of
Cotham (d. of Sir John Vaux d. 1349).
See Payling 325
HOP 1386-1421 IV:189-190
Thoroton
-
Gjest
Re: Bekering of Nottinghamshire
Acht, what an embarrasing tpyo - thanks!
I was aware of the HOP reference, which merely says that Simon Leek
married his cousin, but hadn't identified her parentage. I shall
follow up the other references you kindly give.
Cheers
MAR
I was aware of the HOP reference, which merely says that Simon Leek
married his cousin, but hadn't identified her parentage. I shall
follow up the other references you kindly give.
Cheers
MAR
-
Jeffery A. Duvall
Re: Bekering of Nottinghamshire/Vaux question
Is Sir John Vaux (d. 1349) of Cotham, father of Margaret Vaux, wife of Sir
Simon Leek (d. 1382/3) of Leake, related to the Vaux family of Harrowden in
some way? I've looked in the archive of Gen-Medieval, but I didn't find
anything on the topic (so I apologize if I've missed it). Frances Baldwin
Townsend Jones Williams is another descendant of this couple (Sir Simon Leek
and Margaret Vaux).
Thanks,
Jeff Duvall
Simon Leek (d. 1382/3) of Leake, related to the Vaux family of Harrowden in
some way? I've looked in the archive of Gen-Medieval, but I didn't find
anything on the topic (so I apologize if I've missed it). Frances Baldwin
Townsend Jones Williams is another descendant of this couple (Sir Simon Leek
and Margaret Vaux).
Thanks,
Jeff Duvall
-
Gjest
Re: Bekering of Nottinghamshire/Vaux question
Here are some other Bekering bits and pieces, which allow for one or
two points to be resolved.
(1) Pedigrees from the Plea Rolls, p 8
John de Lexingham
|
____________________________________
| | |
Cecilia Berda (sic) Agnes
| |
Thomas Thomas de Lungvylers
| [IPM 15 June 26 Ed III - MAR]
|
Thomas de Bekering
"now living" [1339]
NB It would seem that there are probably generations missing between
the de Lexingtons and the Bekerings, but this does tell us that Thomas
Bekering in 1339 was son of Thomas son of Cecilia - assuming he knew
his own father's and grandmother's names.
********************
(2) Nottinghamshire IPMs 1350-1436, Thoroton Society Vol. XII, p 1
Thomas de Bekering: Inquest at Retford 14 April 26 Edward III [1352]:
held Tuxford in chief, and Laxton of Adam de Everingham; he died 2
January last past; John de Bekering his son and heir was aged 14 years
on Christmas Day [1351].
**************************
(3) ibid p 75
John de Bekering, knight: IPM at 'Tuxforth' Thursday after All Saints,
50 Edward III [6 November 1376]:
seized of one third part of the manor of Tuxforth, property at Laxton;
he died in London on the Sunday after the feast of St Michael last [5
October 1376]; Thomas his son and heir aged 15 and more
**********************************
(4) ibid pp 180-1
Thomas Bekeryng, Esquire
IPM at Newark 3 October 4 Henry VI [1426]:
On the day he died he held in his demesne as of fee the manor of
Tuxford, called Bekerynges manor. There are 20 ruined messuages there,
worth nothing a year clear; 25 caracutes of land, 20 acres of meadow,
60 acres of thick wood - held in chief by service of one sixth of a
knight's fee. Also the manor of Laxton and the advowsons of the
chantries of St Thomas the Martyr and St Mary the Virgin in Laxton
parish church, by a fine levied in the Court of King Edward III in the
11th year of his reign, between Thomas son of Thomas de Bekering,
knight, and Isabel his wife, plaintiffs; from them the right descended
to John Bekering, knight, as their son and heir, and from him to Thomas
as John's son and heir who died seized thereof. Thomas died on 30
August last and Alice the wife of Thomas de Rempston, knight, is his
daughter and next heir, aged 30 and more.
(NB This is Thomas, said erroneously to have died in 1388 - Thomas the
son of Sir John Bekering. He is styled as "esquire" in his IPM, which
conflicts with the PRO document I cited earlier [SC 8/97/4804] of 1391
which starts: "Petitioners: Thomas Bekeryng, knight, and Elizabeth his
wife..."; perhaps this is not contemporary, or the date has been
mistranscribed or misassigned? AT any rate, it is clear that Alice
Rempston is daughter of Thomas born c1361, and that Thomas, his young
son and "heir" in 1388, must have died v.p. without leaving issue).
Accordingly we may now redraft the pedigree thus:
1. - de Bekering married Cecily, named in Plea Roll, 1339. Issue:
2. Sir Thomas de Bekering, named in Plea Roll, 1339. Issue:
3. Thomas de Bekering, living 1339; died 2 January 1352 (IPM); married
Isabel. Issue:
4. Sir John de Bekering, 25.12.1337 - 5.10.1376 (IPMs); married Joan
(IPM of 1387). Issue:
5. Thomas Bekering, born circa 1361; erroneously said in 1387 to have
died abroad; died 30.8.1425; married Isabel de Loudham, born circa
1360, dead by 1402/3. Issue:
5a. Thomas Bekering, born circa 1383; living 1387; ovpsp.
5b. Alice Bekering, born circa 1395; married Sir Thomas Rempston the
younger, and left issue (detailed above)
MAR
two points to be resolved.
(1) Pedigrees from the Plea Rolls, p 8
John de Lexingham
|
____________________________________
| | |
Cecilia Berda (sic) Agnes
| |
Thomas Thomas de Lungvylers
| [IPM 15 June 26 Ed III - MAR]
|
Thomas de Bekering
"now living" [1339]
NB It would seem that there are probably generations missing between
the de Lexingtons and the Bekerings, but this does tell us that Thomas
Bekering in 1339 was son of Thomas son of Cecilia - assuming he knew
his own father's and grandmother's names.
********************
(2) Nottinghamshire IPMs 1350-1436, Thoroton Society Vol. XII, p 1
Thomas de Bekering: Inquest at Retford 14 April 26 Edward III [1352]:
held Tuxford in chief, and Laxton of Adam de Everingham; he died 2
January last past; John de Bekering his son and heir was aged 14 years
on Christmas Day [1351].
**************************
(3) ibid p 75
John de Bekering, knight: IPM at 'Tuxforth' Thursday after All Saints,
50 Edward III [6 November 1376]:
seized of one third part of the manor of Tuxforth, property at Laxton;
he died in London on the Sunday after the feast of St Michael last [5
October 1376]; Thomas his son and heir aged 15 and more
**********************************
(4) ibid pp 180-1
Thomas Bekeryng, Esquire
IPM at Newark 3 October 4 Henry VI [1426]:
On the day he died he held in his demesne as of fee the manor of
Tuxford, called Bekerynges manor. There are 20 ruined messuages there,
worth nothing a year clear; 25 caracutes of land, 20 acres of meadow,
60 acres of thick wood - held in chief by service of one sixth of a
knight's fee. Also the manor of Laxton and the advowsons of the
chantries of St Thomas the Martyr and St Mary the Virgin in Laxton
parish church, by a fine levied in the Court of King Edward III in the
11th year of his reign, between Thomas son of Thomas de Bekering,
knight, and Isabel his wife, plaintiffs; from them the right descended
to John Bekering, knight, as their son and heir, and from him to Thomas
as John's son and heir who died seized thereof. Thomas died on 30
August last and Alice the wife of Thomas de Rempston, knight, is his
daughter and next heir, aged 30 and more.
(NB This is Thomas, said erroneously to have died in 1388 - Thomas the
son of Sir John Bekering. He is styled as "esquire" in his IPM, which
conflicts with the PRO document I cited earlier [SC 8/97/4804] of 1391
which starts: "Petitioners: Thomas Bekeryng, knight, and Elizabeth his
wife..."; perhaps this is not contemporary, or the date has been
mistranscribed or misassigned? AT any rate, it is clear that Alice
Rempston is daughter of Thomas born c1361, and that Thomas, his young
son and "heir" in 1388, must have died v.p. without leaving issue).
Accordingly we may now redraft the pedigree thus:
1. - de Bekering married Cecily, named in Plea Roll, 1339. Issue:
2. Sir Thomas de Bekering, named in Plea Roll, 1339. Issue:
3. Thomas de Bekering, living 1339; died 2 January 1352 (IPM); married
Isabel. Issue:
4. Sir John de Bekering, 25.12.1337 - 5.10.1376 (IPMs); married Joan
(IPM of 1387). Issue:
5. Thomas Bekering, born circa 1361; erroneously said in 1387 to have
died abroad; died 30.8.1425; married Isabel de Loudham, born circa
1360, dead by 1402/3. Issue:
5a. Thomas Bekering, born circa 1383; living 1387; ovpsp.
5b. Alice Bekering, born circa 1395; married Sir Thomas Rempston the
younger, and left issue (detailed above)
MAR
-
Gjest
Re: Bekering of Nottinghamshire/Vaux question
NB This line presents a problem for the data that Rosie Bevan posted
back in 2002 regarding a Millicent Bekering married into the Markham
family:
This Milicent Beckering is said to have been the daughter of Thomas
Bekering, died 1388. This is, I assume, a conflation of Thomas
Bekerings, based on the IPM of 15 November 1387; I am unaware of the
reference to her purported paternity, but she clearly cannot have been
a daughter of Thomas Bekering (c1361-1425) because his real IPM shows
his heir was his daughter Alice Rempston. If she was indeed a
Bekering, she must have been a sister or aunt of that Thomas. I note
her second husband died in 1409 and her son by the second marriage died
in 1479.
The Markhams and Bekerings have other links: the Cecily, mother of
Thomas Bekering, who stands at the head of the Pleas Roll pedigree and
who was the heiress that brought Laxton and Tuxford into the Bekering
family, was apparently a Markham:
'The Scenery of Sherwood Forest', J. Rodgers, 1908:
"The eldest son of Richard de Marcham [Robert de Markham] had no sons,
but three daughters: [1] Cecily married first Sir John Bekering, and
had a son Thomas, whose grandson had to wife the daughter and co-heir
of Sir John de Lowdham, whose sister Margaret married Thomas Foljambe;
Sir Thomas Bekering* had a daughter Millicent, who married secondly Sir
John Markham, the elder judge. [2] Bertha became the wife of William de
Longvilliers, and [3] Agnes was married to William de Sancta Cruce".
*(in Ken Markham's post of 8 June 1999 - ?apparently based on
Thoroton's Nottinghamshire? - Milicent is said to be daughter of
Thomas, son or grandson of Cecily; various IPMs are referred to which
would give her a birth date of circa 1259)
This would make Milicent the sister (chronologically unlikely) or
daughter (but not the heir) of Thomas de Bekering, died 1352. If
correct, her second husband, Sir John Markham, would thus have been her
third cousins once removed.
back in 2002 regarding a Millicent Bekering married into the Markham
family:
Here are some partial reproductions of family charts from S.J. Payling
Political Society in Lancastrian England. OUP, 1991... The family >relationships of the Markhams are particularly complicated.
1.Sir John Markham of East Markham d.1409
+ (1) Elizabeth dau. Sir John Cressy of Hodstock
2. Elizabeth Markham
+ Richard Stanhope
2.Sir Robert Markham d.1446
+ Elizabeth da of Nicholas Burdon d 1403 of Maplebeck, Notts. and
Milicent Beckering (Sir John Markham's 2nd wife)
3.Sir Robert Markham d.1495
+Joan da of Sir Giles Daubeney and Mary Leek of Cotham (dau +
coh. Simon Leek)
+ (2) Milicent d. 1419, dau. of Thomas Beckering d.1388, widow of
Nicholas Burdon
2.Sir John Markham d.1479
+ Margaret da and coh. Simon Leek of Cotham
3. Markam of Sedgebrook
This Milicent Beckering is said to have been the daughter of Thomas
Bekering, died 1388. This is, I assume, a conflation of Thomas
Bekerings, based on the IPM of 15 November 1387; I am unaware of the
reference to her purported paternity, but she clearly cannot have been
a daughter of Thomas Bekering (c1361-1425) because his real IPM shows
his heir was his daughter Alice Rempston. If she was indeed a
Bekering, she must have been a sister or aunt of that Thomas. I note
her second husband died in 1409 and her son by the second marriage died
in 1479.
The Markhams and Bekerings have other links: the Cecily, mother of
Thomas Bekering, who stands at the head of the Pleas Roll pedigree and
who was the heiress that brought Laxton and Tuxford into the Bekering
family, was apparently a Markham:
'The Scenery of Sherwood Forest', J. Rodgers, 1908:
"The eldest son of Richard de Marcham [Robert de Markham] had no sons,
but three daughters: [1] Cecily married first Sir John Bekering, and
had a son Thomas, whose grandson had to wife the daughter and co-heir
of Sir John de Lowdham, whose sister Margaret married Thomas Foljambe;
Sir Thomas Bekering* had a daughter Millicent, who married secondly Sir
John Markham, the elder judge. [2] Bertha became the wife of William de
Longvilliers, and [3] Agnes was married to William de Sancta Cruce".
*(in Ken Markham's post of 8 June 1999 - ?apparently based on
Thoroton's Nottinghamshire? - Milicent is said to be daughter of
Thomas, son or grandson of Cecily; various IPMs are referred to which
would give her a birth date of circa 1259)
This would make Milicent the sister (chronologically unlikely) or
daughter (but not the heir) of Thomas de Bekering, died 1352. If
correct, her second husband, Sir John Markham, would thus have been her
third cousins once removed.
-
Gjest
Re: Bekering of Nottinghamshire/Vaux question
PS the purported birthdat of circa 1259 I refer to above belongs, of
course, to Cecily Markham not to Milicent Bekering.
MAR
course, to Cecily Markham not to Milicent Bekering.
MAR
-
Gjest
Re: Bekering of Nottinghamshire/Vaux question
Reference to the Victoria County History of Huntingdonshire, Vol III,
sub Catworth, p 29, clears up many of the remaining points about the
Bekerings. Having seen this entry, and combined its contents with the
posts above, the stemma is:
1. Thomas de Bekering, died 1272; married Mary, daughter and heir of
James de Cauz by Alice, daughter and coheir of Walter FitzGilbert (d
1206) and Emma (subsequently the wife of Peter de Vaux); brought the
Warenne fee of Catworth to the Bekering family; died 1279. Issue:
2a. Sir Thomas de Bekering, born 1238-1248; died circa 1286; married
Cecily Markham, coheiress of Tuxford & Laxton, Notts (she married
secondly c1287 John de Bray). Issue - infra.
2b. Peter de Bekering, died crica 1289, without issue.
Issue of Thomas de Bekering (d c1286):
3a. Leonard de Bekering, died circa 1288; married Lettice. No issue.
3b. Thomas de Bekering, born circa 1276; died 1326. Issue:
4a. Thomas de Bekering, died 2.1.1351/2; married Isabel. Issue:
5. Sir John de Bekering, born c1338; died 5 October 1376; married Joan.
Issue:
6. Thomas Bekering, born c1361; died 30 August 1426; married Isabel
Loudham. Issue:
7a. Thomas Bekering, born circa 1383; ospvp
7b. Alice Bekering, born circa 1395; married Sir Thomas Rempston and
left issue.
sub Catworth, p 29, clears up many of the remaining points about the
Bekerings. Having seen this entry, and combined its contents with the
posts above, the stemma is:
1. Thomas de Bekering, died 1272; married Mary, daughter and heir of
James de Cauz by Alice, daughter and coheir of Walter FitzGilbert (d
1206) and Emma (subsequently the wife of Peter de Vaux); brought the
Warenne fee of Catworth to the Bekering family; died 1279. Issue:
2a. Sir Thomas de Bekering, born 1238-1248; died circa 1286; married
Cecily Markham, coheiress of Tuxford & Laxton, Notts (she married
secondly c1287 John de Bray). Issue - infra.
2b. Peter de Bekering, died crica 1289, without issue.
Issue of Thomas de Bekering (d c1286):
3a. Leonard de Bekering, died circa 1288; married Lettice. No issue.
3b. Thomas de Bekering, born circa 1276; died 1326. Issue:
4a. Thomas de Bekering, died 2.1.1351/2; married Isabel. Issue:
5. Sir John de Bekering, born c1338; died 5 October 1376; married Joan.
Issue:
6. Thomas Bekering, born c1361; died 30 August 1426; married Isabel
Loudham. Issue:
7a. Thomas Bekering, born circa 1383; ospvp
7b. Alice Bekering, born circa 1395; married Sir Thomas Rempston and
left issue.
-
Gjest
Re: Bekering of Nottinghamshire/Vaux question
Michael,
thanks very much for posting this- and on Freville, Kemesk, Holbrook
etc; I've just been catching up and digesting them- there isn't much I
can add but here it is anyway:
Firstly, about the reference to Sir John Markham's second wife,
Millicent, being daughter of Thomas Bekering: previously I'd only seen
her called daughter (and coheiress, although evidently incorrect) of
Sir John Bekering- and although this also comes from secondary sources
(DNB etc), John would be chronologically preferable: if daughter of
Thomas (d.1351/2) she'd arguably be too old to be the mother of the
younger John Markham (after 1400, when Sir John's first wife died).
However, as I've mentioned before, the new DNB says that the younger
Sir John is also a product of his father's first marriage, although it
gives his elder brother a birthdate of 1399; some more research is
evidently required...
As for Cecily Markham, I presently (ie, may be wrong) understand her to
be daughter of Robert de Markham by Sarah, daughter and coheiress of
Jordan de Snitterton. A lineage for the latter is given in the recent
editions of Burke's Peerage (so I won't swear by it, but it may be of
interest), sub Earl Ferrers:
1.Sewallis, of Ettington etc 1086, had (inter alia)
2a Fulcher fitz Sewallis of Ettington etc 1141, had (inter alia)
3a Jordan de Ible of Ible 1139, dspl, had illegitimate issue:
4a Simon de Ible 1166, had
5.Jordan de Snitterton of Snitterton d.1248, leaving
6a Sarah m.1240 Robert de Markham of Markham, Notts (d.1289),
issue
6b Adelicia m. Sir Gerard de Sutton of Sutton-in-Ashfield, Notts
6c Agnes m.(1) Robert fitz Harvey, (2) Wm de Ible (2nd coz)
4b Ranulph de Ible 1190, a quo de Ible
3b Henry de Ireton 1176, a quo Ireton
3c Sewallis de Shirley, a quo Shirley
3d Fulcher de Edensor 1155, a quo Edensor
2b Ralph, of Chippenham 1141, a quo Monjoye
Lastly, another bit of Markham intermarriage: Bertha (sis of Cecily)
and her husband Wm de Lungvilliers were apparently ancestors, via
Maulovel, of the Richard Stanhope who m. Elizabeth, dau. of Sir John
Markham (d.1409) (as in Rosie Bevan's post quoted earlier).
Matthew
mjcar@btinternet.com wrote:
thanks very much for posting this- and on Freville, Kemesk, Holbrook
etc; I've just been catching up and digesting them- there isn't much I
can add but here it is anyway:
Firstly, about the reference to Sir John Markham's second wife,
Millicent, being daughter of Thomas Bekering: previously I'd only seen
her called daughter (and coheiress, although evidently incorrect) of
Sir John Bekering- and although this also comes from secondary sources
(DNB etc), John would be chronologically preferable: if daughter of
Thomas (d.1351/2) she'd arguably be too old to be the mother of the
younger John Markham (after 1400, when Sir John's first wife died).
However, as I've mentioned before, the new DNB says that the younger
Sir John is also a product of his father's first marriage, although it
gives his elder brother a birthdate of 1399; some more research is
evidently required...
As for Cecily Markham, I presently (ie, may be wrong) understand her to
be daughter of Robert de Markham by Sarah, daughter and coheiress of
Jordan de Snitterton. A lineage for the latter is given in the recent
editions of Burke's Peerage (so I won't swear by it, but it may be of
interest), sub Earl Ferrers:
1.Sewallis, of Ettington etc 1086, had (inter alia)
2a Fulcher fitz Sewallis of Ettington etc 1141, had (inter alia)
3a Jordan de Ible of Ible 1139, dspl, had illegitimate issue:
4a Simon de Ible 1166, had
5.Jordan de Snitterton of Snitterton d.1248, leaving
6a Sarah m.1240 Robert de Markham of Markham, Notts (d.1289),
issue
6b Adelicia m. Sir Gerard de Sutton of Sutton-in-Ashfield, Notts
6c Agnes m.(1) Robert fitz Harvey, (2) Wm de Ible (2nd coz)
4b Ranulph de Ible 1190, a quo de Ible
3b Henry de Ireton 1176, a quo Ireton
3c Sewallis de Shirley, a quo Shirley
3d Fulcher de Edensor 1155, a quo Edensor
2b Ralph, of Chippenham 1141, a quo Monjoye
Lastly, another bit of Markham intermarriage: Bertha (sis of Cecily)
and her husband Wm de Lungvilliers were apparently ancestors, via
Maulovel, of the Richard Stanhope who m. Elizabeth, dau. of Sir John
Markham (d.1409) (as in Rosie Bevan's post quoted earlier).
Matthew
mjcar@btinternet.com wrote:
Reference to the Victoria County History of Huntingdonshire, Vol III,
sub Catworth, p 29, clears up many of the remaining points about the
Bekerings. Having seen this entry, and combined its contents with the
posts above, the stemma is:
1. Thomas de Bekering, died 1272; married Mary, daughter and heir of
James de Cauz by Alice, daughter and coheir of Walter FitzGilbert (d
1206) and Emma (subsequently the wife of Peter de Vaux); brought the
Warenne fee of Catworth to the Bekering family; died 1279. Issue:
2a. Sir Thomas de Bekering, born 1238-1248; died circa 1286; married
Cecily Markham, coheiress of Tuxford & Laxton, Notts (she married
secondly c1287 John de Bray). Issue - infra.
2b. Peter de Bekering, died crica 1289, without issue.
Issue of Thomas de Bekering (d c1286):
3a. Leonard de Bekering, died circa 1288; married Lettice. No issue.
3b. Thomas de Bekering, born circa 1276; died 1326. Issue:
4a. Thomas de Bekering, died 2.1.1351/2; married Isabel. Issue:
5. Sir John de Bekering, born c1338; died 5 October 1376; married Joan.
Issue:
6. Thomas Bekering, born c1361; died 30 August 1426; married Isabel
Loudham. Issue:
7a. Thomas Bekering, born circa 1383; ospvp
7b. Alice Bekering, born circa 1395; married Sir Thomas Rempston and
left issue.
-
Gjest
Re: Bekering of Nottinghamshire/Vaux question
Matthew
Many thanks indeed for that - in particular, I hadn't picked up the
details from the Ferrers article, so that was very welcome. It is also
gratifying to know that the material I have posted - rambling as much
of it is - might be of interest or use to someone else. It is very
easy to amass data without knowing how to pass it on or make it
available for use, so the suggestion that it might serve a purpose is
great. In any case, I figure once it is typed, it remains accessible
on the archives - a double-edged sword...
I have some further details on Milicent de Bekering, both of which
favour her being the daughter of "John" rather than "Thomas" de
Bekering - this includes a contemporary reference of her arms. I shall
post these when I get a chance, hopefully later this evening.
Regards
Michael
Many thanks indeed for that - in particular, I hadn't picked up the
details from the Ferrers article, so that was very welcome. It is also
gratifying to know that the material I have posted - rambling as much
of it is - might be of interest or use to someone else. It is very
easy to amass data without knowing how to pass it on or make it
available for use, so the suggestion that it might serve a purpose is
great. In any case, I figure once it is typed, it remains accessible
on the archives - a double-edged sword...
I have some further details on Milicent de Bekering, both of which
favour her being the daughter of "John" rather than "Thomas" de
Bekering - this includes a contemporary reference of her arms. I shall
post these when I get a chance, hopefully later this evening.
Regards
Michael
-
Sutliff
Re: Bekering of Nottinghamshire/Vaux question
One question:
Thoroton places a Thomas Bekering d. 1377 as father of Thomas d. 1425-6 (his
date is 30 Aug 1425). He also makes John, husband of Joan as brother of this
Thomas. Can you resolve?
<mjcar@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1125952222.166109.143500@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Thoroton places a Thomas Bekering d. 1377 as father of Thomas d. 1425-6 (his
date is 30 Aug 1425). He also makes John, husband of Joan as brother of this
Thomas. Can you resolve?
<mjcar@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1125952222.166109.143500@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Reference to the Victoria County History of Huntingdonshire, Vol III,
sub Catworth, p 29, clears up many of the remaining points about the
Bekerings. Having seen this entry, and combined its contents with the
posts above, the stemma is:
1. Thomas de Bekering, died 1272; married Mary, daughter and heir of
James de Cauz by Alice, daughter and coheir of Walter FitzGilbert (d
1206) and Emma (subsequently the wife of Peter de Vaux); brought the
Warenne fee of Catworth to the Bekering family; died 1279. Issue:
2a. Sir Thomas de Bekering, born 1238-1248; died circa 1286; married
Cecily Markham, coheiress of Tuxford & Laxton, Notts (she married
secondly c1287 John de Bray). Issue - infra.
2b. Peter de Bekering, died crica 1289, without issue.
Issue of Thomas de Bekering (d c1286):
3a. Leonard de Bekering, died circa 1288; married Lettice. No issue.
3b. Thomas de Bekering, born circa 1276; died 1326. Issue:
4a. Thomas de Bekering, died 2.1.1351/2; married Isabel. Issue:
5. Sir John de Bekering, born c1338; died 5 October 1376; married Joan.
Issue:
6. Thomas Bekering, born c1361; died 30 August 1426; married Isabel
Loudham. Issue:
7a. Thomas Bekering, born circa 1383; ospvp
7b. Alice Bekering, born circa 1395; married Sir Thomas Rempston and
left issue.
-
Gjest
Re: Bekering of Nottinghamshire/Vaux question
One question:
Thoroton places a Thomas Bekering d. 1377 as father of Thomas d. 1425->6 (his date is 30 Aug 1425). He also makes John, husband of Joan as >brother of this Thomas. Can you resolve?
By looking at various of the documents I have referenced above:
A. Thomas: died 2.1.1351/2 [Notts IPMs, Thoroton Soc. Pub. XII]; of
Tuxford & Laxton; leaving John, son and heir, 14 April 1352.
B. John: "aged 14 on Christmas Day last", 14.4.1352 (i.e. born
25.12.1337) [op.cit.] cf Proof of Age 24 November 1360 (Cal. IPMs PRO
Vol 10) "John son and heir of Thomas de Bekering", of Laxton, "born on
the feast of St Laurence 13 Edward III and baptised... on the same day"
(this would give a birthday of c15 August 1339?); IPM 6 November 1376
[Thoroton Soc. Pub XIII]; of Tuxford & Laxton; "Thomas his son and heir
aged 15 and more"
married Joan, named in IPM 15 November 1387 [Cal. IPMs XVI] as
"sometime wife of John de Bekering, knight"; holding Laxton, reversion
to Thomas de Bekering [relationship not stated].
C. Thomas, aged 15 and more, 6 November 1376; IPM 3 October 4 Henry VI
[Thoroton Soc. Pub XII], of Tuxford and Laxton; recites descent of
Laxton property thus: "by fine levied in the court of King Edward III
in the 11th year of his reign between Thomas, son of Thomas Bekering,
knight, and Isabel his wife [sic, according to my note of from the
volume]; from them the right descended to John Bekering as their son
and heir, and from him to Thomas as John's son and heir who died seized
thereof. Thomas died on 30 August last".
Thus, the sequence of IPM and Proof of Age documents show:
Thomas d 1352 [m Isabel; this is confirmed by PRO documents]
|
John c1338-1376 m Joan
|
Thomas c1361-30 August 3 Henry VI
This line is verified by the details given in the latest IPM. I
haven't found any evidence to displace this by inserting an extra
Thomas as John's younger brother and father of Thomas d 3 Henry VI.
Unfortunately I haven't ready access to Thoroton - does he reference
his claim? The VCH article on Catworth reproduces this part of the
line as I had it. I feel it is pretty solid.
The last-mentioned IPM is dated 3 October 4 Henry VI; the preceding 30
August is in fact 1425, as Henry VI's accession date is 1 September
1422 - my transcription error - Thoroton Soc. Pub. Vol XII has 1425
clearly printed. Thanks for pointing this out!
-
Gjest
Re: Bekering of Nottinghamshire/Vaux question
Darn - I posted a detailed item about Milicent Bekering, but it seems
to have disappeared - sorry Matthew, will repost once I get the
opportunity - might not be for a couple of days.
MAR
to have disappeared - sorry Matthew, will repost once I get the
opportunity - might not be for a couple of days.
MAR
-
Gjest
Re: Bekering of Nottinghamshire/Vaux question
The published Visitation of Nottinghamshire 1569-1614, Harl. Soc. Pub.
Vol IV,, has two entries which make reference to Millicent Bekering.
At page 23 sub Markham we find:
1. Sir Alexander Markham, knight; constable of Nottingham Castle, Henry
III. Issue:
2. John Markham, married Isabel (sic). Issue:
3a. Robert Markham, of Markham. Issue:
4a. "Scisseley ux. John Bray" [i.e. Cecily, married 1stly Thomas de
Bekering, 2ndly John de Bray - MAR]
4b. Berta (sic), married William Longvillers
4c. Agnes, married William St Crure (sic)
3b. John Markham. Issue:
4a. Robert Markham. Issue:
5a. John Markham. Issue:
6a. Robert Markham. Issue:
7a. John Markham, Lord Chief Justice, Common Pleas (sic); married (2)
"Millesent d & h of Sir John Bekering, knight; renupt. Sir William
Meering"; widow of Sir John Burden, knight.
The Markham arms are said to include a quartering "cheque gules &
argent, a bend sable" - i.e. Bekering.
At page 12 sub Mering:
"Sir William Mering of Mering, knight, married Maud (sic) d of Sir John
Bekering".
At page 13, the text of an MI at Great Markham church is quoted thus:
"Hic iac' d'na Milicent Mering quondam uxor Willm' Mering Militis qui
obiit 16 Septemb'r 1419"
(Here lies Dame Milicent Mering, sometime wife of William Mering,
knight, who died 16.9.1419)
This memorial was said to have three arms:
1. Mering impaling cheque gules & argent, a bend (sic) - i.e. Bekering
2. Markham impaling same
3. Three pilgrim's staves meeting in base gules (sic) impaling same.
If the date of 1400 is right for her purported son, John Markham the
younger, then she cannot have been born much before 1360, and thus
making her a daughter (but not an heiress) of Sir John Bekering
(c1338-1376) would be appropriate. However, I wonder whether she could
be connected with the John Bekering (b c1307) of Wiston, whom I mention
in my initial post [NB the other details in that post which I have
assigned to him, including the accolade, apparently belong to the
foregoing Sir John of Laxton etc, the only JB I know to have been
knighted]; she could even be an heiress of this John. Or...
MAR
Vol IV,, has two entries which make reference to Millicent Bekering.
At page 23 sub Markham we find:
1. Sir Alexander Markham, knight; constable of Nottingham Castle, Henry
III. Issue:
2. John Markham, married Isabel (sic). Issue:
3a. Robert Markham, of Markham. Issue:
4a. "Scisseley ux. John Bray" [i.e. Cecily, married 1stly Thomas de
Bekering, 2ndly John de Bray - MAR]
4b. Berta (sic), married William Longvillers
4c. Agnes, married William St Crure (sic)
3b. John Markham. Issue:
4a. Robert Markham. Issue:
5a. John Markham. Issue:
6a. Robert Markham. Issue:
7a. John Markham, Lord Chief Justice, Common Pleas (sic); married (2)
"Millesent d & h of Sir John Bekering, knight; renupt. Sir William
Meering"; widow of Sir John Burden, knight.
The Markham arms are said to include a quartering "cheque gules &
argent, a bend sable" - i.e. Bekering.
At page 12 sub Mering:
"Sir William Mering of Mering, knight, married Maud (sic) d of Sir John
Bekering".
At page 13, the text of an MI at Great Markham church is quoted thus:
"Hic iac' d'na Milicent Mering quondam uxor Willm' Mering Militis qui
obiit 16 Septemb'r 1419"
(Here lies Dame Milicent Mering, sometime wife of William Mering,
knight, who died 16.9.1419)
This memorial was said to have three arms:
1. Mering impaling cheque gules & argent, a bend (sic) - i.e. Bekering
2. Markham impaling same
3. Three pilgrim's staves meeting in base gules (sic) impaling same.
If the date of 1400 is right for her purported son, John Markham the
younger, then she cannot have been born much before 1360, and thus
making her a daughter (but not an heiress) of Sir John Bekering
(c1338-1376) would be appropriate. However, I wonder whether she could
be connected with the John Bekering (b c1307) of Wiston, whom I mention
in my initial post [NB the other details in that post which I have
assigned to him, including the accolade, apparently belong to the
foregoing Sir John of Laxton etc, the only JB I know to have been
knighted]; she could even be an heiress of this John. Or...
MAR
-
Gjest
Re: Bekering of Nottinghamshire/Markham
mjcar@btinternet.com wrote:
Thanks very much for that information- it looks as though the most
definite fact about Millicent would be that she remarried William
Mering! The rest is almost definitively uncertain- I note it also gives
her previous husband as Sir John Burden, rather than Nicholas. At least
we can be fairly sure she was a Bekering, from the arms (and presumably
the arms with the pilgrims' staves are for Burden)- but her exact
parentage, and whether she was even mother of the younger John, are for
now unproven. As for being described as heiress, another possibility is
the scenario that often comes up, whereby she is not actually the
father's heir but the mother's- but there may not be room for any more
wives in the tree.
The published Visitation of Nottinghamshire 1569-1614, Harl. Soc. Pub.
Vol IV,, has two entries which make reference to Millicent Bekering.
At page 23 sub Markham we find:
1. Sir Alexander Markham, knight; constable of Nottingham Castle, Henry
III. Issue:
2. John Markham, married Isabel (sic). Issue:
3a. Robert Markham, of Markham. Issue:
4a. "Scisseley ux. John Bray" [i.e. Cecily, married 1stly Thomas de
Bekering, 2ndly John de Bray - MAR]
4b. Berta (sic), married William Longvillers
4c. Agnes, married William St Crure (sic)
3b. John Markham. Issue:
4a. Robert Markham. Issue:
5a. John Markham. Issue:
6a. Robert Markham. Issue:
7a. John Markham, Lord Chief Justice, Common Pleas (sic); married (2)
"Millesent d & h of Sir John Bekering, knight; renupt. Sir William
Meering"; widow of Sir John Burden, knight.
The Markham arms are said to include a quartering "cheque gules &
argent, a bend sable" - i.e. Bekering.
At page 12 sub Mering:
"Sir William Mering of Mering, knight, married Maud (sic) d of Sir John
Bekering".
At page 13, the text of an MI at Great Markham church is quoted thus:
"Hic iac' d'na Milicent Mering quondam uxor Willm' Mering Militis qui
obiit 16 Septemb'r 1419"
(Here lies Dame Milicent Mering, sometime wife of William Mering,
knight, who died 16.9.1419)
This memorial was said to have three arms:
1. Mering impaling cheque gules & argent, a bend (sic) - i.e. Bekering
2. Markham impaling same
3. Three pilgrim's staves meeting in base gules (sic) impaling same.
If the date of 1400 is right for her purported son, John Markham the
younger, then she cannot have been born much before 1360, and thus
making her a daughter (but not an heiress) of Sir John Bekering
(c1338-1376) would be appropriate. However, I wonder whether she could
be connected with the John Bekering (b c1307) of Wiston, whom I mention
in my initial post [NB the other details in that post which I have
assigned to him, including the accolade, apparently belong to the
foregoing Sir John of Laxton etc, the only JB I know to have been
knighted]; she could even be an heiress of this John. Or...
MAR
Thanks very much for that information- it looks as though the most
definite fact about Millicent would be that she remarried William
Mering! The rest is almost definitively uncertain- I note it also gives
her previous husband as Sir John Burden, rather than Nicholas. At least
we can be fairly sure she was a Bekering, from the arms (and presumably
the arms with the pilgrims' staves are for Burden)- but her exact
parentage, and whether she was even mother of the younger John, are for
now unproven. As for being described as heiress, another possibility is
the scenario that often comes up, whereby she is not actually the
father's heir but the mother's- but there may not be room for any more
wives in the tree.
-
Gjest
Re: Bekering of Nottinghamshire/Markham
Thanks Matthew.
Interesting scenario re mother's heir but not father's - a possibility,
but it wouldn't of itself permit the quartering of the paternal arms in
this fashion - I seem to recall that the practice - at least until
recently - was to show the father's arms on a dexter canton on the
mother's arms, to signify heirship of the latter and not the former - I
don't know whether this goes back to 1400 however.
Interesting scenario re mother's heir but not father's - a possibility,
but it wouldn't of itself permit the quartering of the paternal arms in
this fashion - I seem to recall that the practice - at least until
recently - was to show the father's arms on a dexter canton on the
mother's arms, to signify heirship of the latter and not the former - I
don't know whether this goes back to 1400 however.
-
Sutliff
Re: Bekering of Nottinghamshire/Vaux question
FWIW Payling makes Millicent a daughter of Thomas Bekering d. 1388, neighbor
of her first husband. Sources cited on p. 40.
<mjcar@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1126086230.897522.205630@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
7a. John Markham, Lord Chief Justice, Common Pleas (sic); married (2)
of her first husband. Sources cited on p. 40.
<mjcar@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1126086230.897522.205630@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
The published Visitation of Nottinghamshire 1569-1614, Harl. Soc. Pub.
Vol IV,, has two entries which make reference to Millicent Bekering.
snip
7a. John Markham, Lord Chief Justice, Common Pleas (sic); married (2)
"Millesent d & h of Sir John Bekering, knight; renupt. Sir William
Meering"; widow of Sir John Burden, knight.
The Markham arms are said to include a quartering "cheque gules &
argent, a bend sable" - i.e. Bekering.
At page 12 sub Mering:
"Sir William Mering of Mering, knight, married Maud (sic) d of Sir John
Bekering".
At page 13, the text of an MI at Great Markham church is quoted thus:
"Hic iac' d'na Milicent Mering quondam uxor Willm' Mering Militis qui
obiit 16 Septemb'r 1419"
(Here lies Dame Milicent Mering, sometime wife of William Mering,
knight, who died 16.9.1419)
snip
-
Tim Powys-Lybbe
Re: Bekering of Nottinghamshire/Markham
In message of 7 Sep, mjcar@btinternet.com wrote:
I have some evidence to show that the early to middle medieval
Emglish practices of quartering arms extended beyond heiresses to
include some ladies who provided great assets to the family but yet had
brothers with issue. Such quarterings are recognised by the College of
Arms.
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
Thanks Matthew.
Interesting scenario re mother's heir but not father's - a possibility,
but it wouldn't of itself permit the quartering of the paternal arms in
this fashion - I seem to recall that the practice - at least until
recently - was to show the father's arms on a dexter canton on the
mother's arms, to signify heirship of the latter and not the former - I
don't know whether this goes back to 1400 however.
I have some evidence to show that the early to middle medieval
Emglish practices of quartering arms extended beyond heiresses to
include some ladies who provided great assets to the family but yet had
brothers with issue. Such quarterings are recognised by the College of
Arms.
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
-
Gjest
Re: Bekering of Nottinghamshire/Vaux question
FWIW Payling makes Millicent a daughter of Thomas Bekering d. 1388, >neighbor of her first husband. Sources cited on p. 40.
Thanks for that Henry - a useful citation; I shall check it out. The
fact that there Thomas Bekering did not die in 1388, but appeared that
year alive (though thought to have died) does not favour the accuracy
of his account, however. It seems that he who was said to have died
1388 in fact died 1425, and had only one surviving child, viz Alice
Rempston.
As Tim notes in his useful post, the arms quoted in the Notts
Visitation are not really conclusive, as in some cases they were borne
regardless of an heraldic heirship exisiting.
I appreciate the assistance, guidance and feedback you all have given
on this case.