Dunbar dilemmas: Patrick, [8th] Earl of Dunbar

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Dunbar dilemmas: Patrick, [8th] Earl of Dunbar

Legg inn av Gjest » 05 aug 2005 03:41:02

Thursday, 4 August, 2005


Dear Nat (et al.),

I spoke with Andrew MacEwen this evening re: the Dunbar
problem(s), and in particular re: the problems concerning Patrick,
[8th Earl in the CP account] he noted that he has worked on this
for many, many years without a definite resolution. However, he
also agreed that this Earl Patrick was older than either SP or CP
states, and noted the following from his research:

A. Patrick was knighted on St. George's Day, 23 April, 1296
en route to the siege of Dunbar;

B. Sir Patrick was the first of many Scots nobles to whom
King Edward I wrote letters from Portsmouth on 24 May
1297. The letter was addressed to "Patricio filio
Patricii comitis Marchiae" [Stevenson, Hist. Docs.
II:167, No. 429 as cited by Andrew MacEwen], and so was
clearly addressed to him and not his father, the then
Earl Patrick.

~ Following the young Sir Patrick, the next nobles to
whom letters were addressed on the same matter: Robert
de Brus, Earl of Carrick; John, brother of James the
Stewart; and Malcolm, Earl of Lennox, in that order.

C. The age given for this Sir Patrick de Dunbar in his
father's IPM is wrong. He is said to be aged 24 at his
father's death/IPM in 1308/09 [CP and SP agree in this],
but Andrew states there is evidence beyond the above that
he was more likely 34 at that time - another case of
no reliance to be placed on ages in IPMs. If '24 and
more' was intended, that is another matter, but again
the alleged birth date of "about 1285" is not supported.

Andrew is of the opinion, esp. with the knighting in 1296 and
Edward I's writing to him in 1297, that 1280 is a date too late;
that he was likely about 21 years of age in 1296, and more likely
born "say 1275".

As to George, Earl of Dunbar, Andrew states that he was clearly
the great-grandson of Marjory Comyn, and the SP account on the
matter is in error (on several levels). He stated that George was
the son of Sir Patrick de Dunbar; that it is not proven per se that
this was the same "Patrick son of Lord Alexander son of the Earl of
Dunbar", but that if he was, then this Sir Patrick de Dunbar was a
grandson of Marjory Comyn, and therefore of the [7th] Earl Patrick
of Dunbar who d. in 1308. Therefore his [Sir Patrick's] father
could not have been the Alexander de Dunbar of the Turnberry Band
(1286), but rather another Alexander de Dunbar, son of Earl Patrick
and Marjory Comyn.

Cheers,

John

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