EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1)

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Louise Staley

EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1)

Legg inn av Louise Staley » 03 aug 2005 08:18:30

Recently I have been looking at the ancestry of Roger Corbet of Albright
Hussey in Shropshire (1673-1715). It appears there are 11 descents from
Edward III to Roger, primarily through his father Captain Robert Corbet
(1629-1698).

In this series of posts I propose to detail what I know about the lines
from Roger to Edward III in the hope of generating a discussion about
the likelihood of all these lines holding and where better (or
contradictory) sources may be found.

I have tried to source every fact, where no source is cited it probably
means I got from an SGM post without noting the source or perhaps
straight off the internet with varying degrees of certainty. As far as I
know all the relationships are sourced and it is only dates and places
which could be better documented. I would welcome any sources where I
have gaps.

The following bibliography will apply to all the subsequent five posts.

Louise

_Bibliography_
A2A: The National Archives of England, Wales and the United Kingdom
Access to Archives http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a

AR7: Weis, Frederick, with additions and corrections by Walter Lee
Sheppard, Jr, Assisted by David Faris, _Ancestral Roots of Certain
American Colonists Who Came to America Before 1700 (7th Edition)_,
(Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1992)

Bartrum, Peter C., _Welsh Genealogies AD 1400-1500_, (Aberystwyth,
National Library of Wales, 1983)

Burke's Commoners: Burke, Bernard, _A genealogical and heraldic history
of the landed gentry; or, Commoners of Great Britain and Ireland
enjoying territorial possessions or high official rank: but uninvested
with heritable honours_. (London: Colburn, 1837-38) available online
from Ancestry.com

CP: Cokayne, George Edward & Vicary Gibbs, _The Complete Peerage of England,
Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant, Extinct
or Dormant_, (London, St. Catherine Press Ltd., 1910)

Corbett Study Group
http://website.lineone.net/~corbett_gro ... pelham.htm

Croke, Alexander, _The Genealogical History of the Croke Family
originally named Le Blount_, (Oxford, 1823)

Gough, Richard _The History of Myddle_, Ed. D. Hey, (London, Penguin, 1981).

Jones, Morris Charles, _The Feudal Barons of Powys_, (London, J. Russell
Smith, 1868) available online from Ancestry.com.

Lichfield Wills: Lichfield Wills and Administrations Registered in The
Consistory Court of The Bishop of Lichfield and Coventry. 1516 to 1652,
indexed at Ancestry.com

Lloyd, W. V., _Sheriffs of Montgomeryshire, with Their Armorial
Bearings, and Notices, Genealogical and Biographical, of their Families,
From 1540 to 1639_, (London, T. Richards, 1876) available online from
Ancestry.com.

PA2: Faris, David, _Plantagenet Ancestry of Seventeenth-Century
Colonists (2nd Edition)_, (Boston, The New England Historic Genealogical
Society, 1999)

Paston Letters: Warrington, John (ed.), _The Paston Letters_, (London,
Everyman's Library, 1956).

PRO: The National Archives of England, Wales and the United Kingdom
PROCAT http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Shropshire Parish Registers, available from Ancestry.com

Wills: The National Archives of England, Wales and the United Kingdom
PCC Wills http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/

Louise Staley

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Louise Staley » 03 aug 2005 08:22:36

Generations 1 - 5

First Generation

1. _Roger Corbet of Albright Hussey_ [1,2,3,4], was christened on 20
Dec 1673 [1] at Battlefield, SAL, ENG [1] and was buried on 12 Aug 1715
[1] at Battlefield, SAL, ENG [1].
1. Shropshire Parish Registers, Battlefield.
2. Jones (1868), p. 160.
3. Burke's Commoners, Corbet of Sundorne
4. Corbett Study Group

Second Generation

2. _Captain Robert Corbet of Albright Hussey_ [1,3,4,5,6], was
christened on 25 Oct 1629 [1] at Moreton Corbet, SAL, ENG [2] and was
buried on 14 May 1698 at Battlefield, SAL, ENG [2].
1. Shropshire Parish Registers, Moreton Corbett
2. Ibid, Battlefield.
3. Will, PROB 11/105 Will of William Corbet.
4. Jones (1868), p. 160
5. Burke's Commoners, Corbet of Sundorne.
6. Corbett Study Group

3. _Elizabeth Kynaston of Hordley, SAL_ [1,2,4], was born about 1631
[3], died on 4 Apr 1691 [3], and was buried at Battlefield, SAL, ENG
[3].
1. Jones (1868), pp. 141, 159-60
2. Burke's Commoners, Corbet of Sundorne.
3. Shropshire Parish Registers, Battlefield.
4. Corbett Study Group


Third Generation

4. _Sir Pelham Corbet of Lee & Sibbesdon_ [1,2,3,4,5,6] died before 29
Mar 1660 [5].
1. Will, PROB 11/105 Will of William Corbet.
2. A2A, 2028/1/2/109, 110: 1636.
3. Shropshire Parish Registers, Moreton Corbett
4. Burke's Commoners, Corbet of Sundorne
5. Corbett Study Group
6. Shropshire Parish Registers, Moreton Corbett

5. _Anne Corbet_, [2,3,4,5,6,7,8] daughter of Sir Andrew Corbet of
Moreton Corbet and Elizabeth Boothby, was buried on 22 Nov 1678 at
Sibdon, SAL, ENG [1].
1. Shropshire Parish Registers, Sibdon
2. Burke's Commoners, Corbet of Sundorne
3. Will, Will of Sir Vincent Corbet PROB 11/141.
4. Gough, Richard, The History of Myddle.
5. Shropshire Parish Registers, Moreton Corbett
6. Will, PROB 11/105 Will of William Corbet.
7. A2A, 2028/1/2/109, 110: 1636.
8. Corbett Study Group

6. _Roger Kynaston of Hordley, Sheriff of Shropshire 1640_ [1,3], was
buried on 25 Sep 1684 [2] at Hordley, SAL, ENG [2].
1. Jones (1868), pp. 141, 159-60
2. Shropshire Parish Registers, Hordley
3. Lloyd (1876), pp. 480, 482, 482 note 1.

7. _Rebecca Weld_ [2,3], daughter of Sir John Weld of Welley, was
buried on 13 Jun 1656 at Hordley, SAL, ENG [1]
1. Shropshire Parish Registers, Hordley.
2. Jones (1868), pp. 141, 159-60.
3. Lloyd (1876), p. 482 note 1.

Fourth Generation

8. _William Corbet of Lee & Sibbesdon_ [1,2,3], died on 7 Apr 1603
[3].
1. Will, PROB 11/105 Will of William Corbet.
2. Burke's Commoners, Corbet of Sundorne
3. Corbett Study Group

9. _Anne Pelham_ [1,2,3,4,5] was born after 1566 [1].
1. Will, PROB 11/72 Will of Sir William Pelham.
2. CP XII/2: 557.
3. Will, PROB 11/105 Will of William Corbet.
4. Burke's Commoners, Corbet of Sundorne
5. Corbett Study Group

12. _Edward Kynaston of Hordley, Sheriff of Montgomeryshire_ [1,2],
died before 1 May 1630 [1,2].
1. Jones (1868), p. 141.
2. Lloyd (1876), pp. 479-80, 482.

13. _Mary Owen_ [1,2], daughter of Thomas Owen of Condover, was buried
on 29 Jan 1668 [3] at Hordley, SAL, ENG [3].
1. Jones (1868), p. 141.
2. Lloyd (1876), pp. 479-80, 482.
3. Shropshire Parish Registers, Hordley.


Fifth Generation

16. _Thomas Corbet of Lee & Aston, SAL_ [1,2], died in 1602 [2].
1. Burke's Commoners, Corbet of Sundorne
2. Corbett Study Group

17. _Elizabeth Williams_ [1,2], daughter of Thomas Williams of
Willaston.
1. Burke's Commoners, Corbet of Sundore (calls her Elinor daughter of
Thomas Williams)
2. Corbett Study Group

18. _Sir William Pelham of Brocklesby, LIN_, Lord Justice of Ireland
[1,2], son of Sir William Pelham of Laughton and Mary Sandys, was born
about 1530, died on 24 Nov 1587 in Flushing, Netherlands, and was
buried
in Brocklesby, LIN, ENG.
1. CP XII/2: 557.
2. Will, PROB 11/72 Will of Sir William Pelham.

19. _Eleanor Neville_ [1,2] died in 1574 [1].
1. CP XII/2: 557-8.
2. Will, PROB 11/72 Will of Sir William Pelham.

24. _Roger Kynaston of Hordley, Sheriff of Shropshire 1603_ [1,2] died
in 1608 [1,2].
1. Jones (1868), pp. 117, 141.
2. Lloyd (1876), pp. 477-480.

25. _Margaret Vaughan_, daughter of John ap Owen Vaughan of
Llwydiarth,
Sheriff of Montgomeryshire 1583 and Dorothy Vaughan.
1. Jones (1868), p. 141
2. Lloyd (1876), p. 479.

Louise Staley

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Louise Staley » 03 aug 2005 08:23:34

Generations 6 - 8

Sixth Generation

32. _William Corbet of Lee & Aston, SAL_ [1,2,4], was born about 1505
[3]
and died in 1565 [3].
1. Burke's Commoners, Corbet of Sundorne
2. Corbett Study Group
3. Lichfield Wills
4. Will of Sir Thomas Lakyn of Willey, Shropshire

33. _Alice Lacon of Willey, SAL_ [1,2,3], daughter of Sir Thomas Lacon

of Willey, SAL and Mary Corbet of Moreton Corbet, died on 8 May 1573 at
Worthen, SAL, ENG.
1. Burke's Commoners, Corbet of Sundorne
2. Corbett Study Group
3. Will, PROB 11/25 Will of Sir Thomas Lakyn of Willey, Shropshire

38. _Sir Henry Neville K.G., Earl of Westmoreland 5th_ [1], was born
about 1524 [1], died on 10 Feb 1564 in Kelvedon, ESS, ENG, [1] and was
buried at Staindrop, DUR, ENG.[1]
1. CP XII/2: 553-8.

39. _Anne Manners_ [1] died after 27 Jun 1549 [1] and was buried at
Staindrop, DUR, ENG [1].
1. CP XI: 253-5, XII/2: 555-8.

48. _Edward Kynaston of Hordley_ [1,2,3,4] was born before 1530 [1,2]
and died in 1594 [1,2].
1. Jones (1868), p. 117, 141.
2. Lloyd (1876), pp. 477-479.
3. PRO C 43/4/30.
4. A2A 3693/1/20: 1635, 23 May 11 Charles I.

49. _Margaret Lloyd_ [1,2,3], daughter of Edward Lloyd of Llwynymaen.
1. Jones (1868), p. 117, 141.
2. Lloyd (1876), pp. 477-479.
3. A2A 3693/1/20: 1635, 23 May 11 Charles I.


Seventh Generation

64. _John Corbet of Lee, SAL_ [1,2], was born about 1482 and died
before 1564.
1. Croke(1823), Vol. II pp. 155-169.
2. Burke's Commoners, Corbet of Sundorne

65. _Margaret Blount of Kinlet, SAL_ [1,2] daughter of Sir Thomas
Blount Knt., of Kinlet and Anne Croft.
1. Croke (1823), Vol. II pp. 155-169.
2. Burke's Commoners, Corbet of Sundorne


76. _Sir Ralph Neville Earl of Westmoreland 4th_ [1] was born on 21
Feb
1498 [1] died on 24 Apr 1549 [1] and was buried at Staindrop, DUR, ENG
[1].
1. CP XII: 552-4.

77. _Katharine Stafford_ [1] died on 14 May 1555 [1] in Shoreditch,
ESS, ENG [1] and was buried on 17 May 1555 [1] at Shoreditch, ESS, ENG
[1].
1. CP II: 390-1, XII/2: 553-4, XIV: 121.


78. _Thomas Manners Baron Ros 12th, Earl of Rutland 1st_ [1] was born
before 1492 [1], died on 20 Sep 1543 [1] and was buried in Bottesford,
LEI, ENG [1].
1. CP XI: 107-8, 253-5.

79. _Eleanor Paston_ [1,2], daughter of Sir William Paston of Paston,
NFK and Bridget Heydon, died in 1551 in Shoreditch, ESS, ENG [1], and
was buried in Shoreditch, ESS, ENG [1].
1. CP XI: 253-5.
2. Paston Letters, xiv-xv.

96. _Sir Humphrey 'The Wild' Kynaston of Moreton, outlaw_ [1,2,3] died
before 16 Jan 1535 [1] in Paris, France [1].
1. Jones (1868), pp. 114-15, 141
2. Lloyd (1876), pp. 472, 475.
3. PRO C 43/4/30.

97. _Elsbeth verch Maredudd_ [1,2].
1. Lloyd (1876), p. 476.
2. Jones (1868), p. 141.



Eighth Generation

128. _Thomas Corbet of Lee, SAL_ [1,2], son of Peter Corbet of Lee,
SAL
and Elizabeth Brereton.
1. Bartrum (1983), v. I, p. 131.
2. Burke's Commoners, Corbet of Sundorne

129. _Jane Kynaston_ [1,2]
1. Bartrum (1983), v. I, p. 131.
2. Burke's Commoners, Corbet of Sundorne

152. _Ralph Neville_ [1] died before 6 Feb 1499 [1] v.p. [1] and was
buried at Brancepeth, DUR, ENG [1].
1. CP XII: 551-3.

153. _Edith Sandys_ [1,2] daughter of Sir William Sandys of the Vine,
HAM and Margaret Cheney, died on 22 Aug 1529 [1], and was buried on 25
Aug 1529 [1] at Greenwich, MDX, ENG at the Friars Observant, Greenwich
[1] The cause of her death was plague.
1. CP XI: 441, XII/2: 552-553.

154. _Sir Edward Stafford K.G., Duke of Buckingham 3rd_ [1], was born
on
3 Feb 1478 [1] in Breconshire, WLS [1], died on 17 May 1521 [1] in The
Tower, LND, ENG [1], and was buried at Newgate, LND, ENG at the
Franciscan (Grey Friars, Friars Minor) Priory Church, Newgate Street
[1]. The cause of his death was executed for high treason after
incurring the enmity of Cardinal Wolsey.
1. CP II: 389-91, XIV: 121.

155. _Eleanor Percy_ [1] was born in 1478 [1], died on 13 Feb 1531
[1],
and was buried at Newgate, LND, ENG at the Franciscan (Grey Friars,
Friars Minor) Priory Church, Newgate Street [1].
1. CP II: 390-1, XIV: 121.

156. _Sir George Manners Baron Ros of Helmsely 11th_ [1], son of Sir
Robert Manners and Eleanor Ros heiress (in her issue) of the Barony of
Ros, was born about 1470 [1], died on 27 Oct 1513 [1] in France [1],
and
was buried at St George's Chapel Windsor Castle, BRK, ENG [1].
1. CP XI: 107-8.

157. _Anne St. Leger_, was born in 1476, died on 21 Apr 1526, and was
buried at St George's Chapel, Windsor Castle, BRK, ENG.
1. CP II: 17, V:212-15, XI: 108, 253.


192. _Sir Roger Kynaston of Middle, Sheriff of Shropshire_
[1,2,3,4,5],
son of Gruffudd ap John Kynaston of Stokes and Magred Hoord heiress of
Walford, was born in 1430 and died in 1496 [2].
1. Jones (1868), pp. 114-15.
2. Lloyd (1876), p. 472-475.
3. Bartrum (1983), v. I, p. 131.
4. PRO C 43/4/30.
5. AR7 1A: 35.

193. _Elizabeth Grey_ [1,2,3,4,5] was born about 1440 [2] and died
after 1501 [2].
1. PRO C 43/4/30.
2. Jones (1868), p. 114.
2. AR7 1A: 35.
4. CP VI: 143, Appendix C:697.
5. Bartrum (1983), v. I, p. 131.

Louise Staley

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Louise Staley » 03 aug 2005 08:24:19

Generations 9 - 10

Ninth Generation

258. Sir Roger Kynaston of Middle
(Duplicate. See Person 192)

259. Elizabeth Grey
(Duplicate. See Person 193)

304. Sir Ralph Neville K.B., Earl of Westmoreland 2nd [1] was born in
1456 [1], died on 6 Feb 1499 [1] in Hornby Castle, YKS, ENG [1], and
was
buried at Hornby, YKS, ENG [1].
1. CP IX: 504, XIV: 498-9.

305. Isabel Booth [1], daughter of Roger Booth of Sawley, DBY and
Katharine Hatton, was buried in Brancepeth, DUR, ENG [1].
1. CP IX: 504, XIV: 498-9.

308. Sir Henry Stafford K.G., Duke of Buckingham 2nd [1], was born on
4
Sep 1455 in Abergavenny, MON, WLS [1], died on 2 Nov 1483 [1] in
Salisbury, WIL, ENG [1], and was buried at Grey Friars Salisbury, WIL,
ENG [1]. The cause of his death was beheaded without trial for joining
the plot to place the earl of Richmond on the throne. [1]
1. CP II: 389-90, XII/1: 182, XIV: 121, 589.

309. Katharine Wydeville [1], daughter of Richard Wydeville of the
Mote, Earl Rivers 1st and Jacquette De Luxembourg, died before 1513
[1].
1. CP II: 389-90, XII/1: 182, XIV: 121, 589.

310. Sir Henry Percy K.G., Earl of Northumberland 3rd [1], was born
about 1449 [1], died on 28 Apr 1489 [1] at Topcliffe, YKS, ENG [1], and
was buried at Beverley, YKS, Eng [1]. The cause of his death was
murdered by a rabble because of an unpopular tax he was employed to
levy
[1].
1. CP XIV: 510, 715-7.

311. Maud Herbert [1], daughter of Sir William Herbert K.G., Earl of
Pembroke and Anne Devereux, died before 27 Jul 1485 [1], and was buried
at Beverley, YKS, Eng [1].
1. CP IX: 717-9, XIV: 510, X: 400-1.

314. Sir Thomas St. Leger of Guildford, Surrey [1], son of John St.
Leger Sheriff of Kent and Margery Donnett, died on 8 Nov 1483 [1] at
Exeter, DEV, ENG [1]. The cause of his death was beheaded.
1. CP II: 17, V: 212-15 XI: 108, 253.

315. Anne of York Dowager Duchess of Exeter [1], was born on 10 Aug
1439 [1] in Fotheringhay Castle, NTH, ENG [1], died about 12 Jan 1476
[1], and was buried at Windsor Castle, BRK, ENG [1].
1. CP II: 17, V: 212-15 XI: 108, 253.

386. Sir Henry Grey Earl of Tankerville 2nd, Lord of Powis [1], son of
Sir John Grey K.G., Earl of Tankerville 1st and Joan Cherleton Lady of
Powis, was born about 1419 [2] and died on 13 Jan 1450 [2].
1. CP V: 736 (n), VI: 138-141, 699
2. AR7 1A: 34.

387. Antigone of Gloucester [1], illegitimate daughter of Humphrey
"The
Good" of Gloucester, Duke of Gloucester, was born before 1428 [2] and
died in 1447 [2].
1. CP V: 736 (n), VI: 138-141, 699
2. AR7 1A: 34.


Tenth Generation

608. Sir John Neville Baron Neville of Raby 5th [1], son of Sir John
Neville of Raby and Elizabeth Holand, was born about 1410 [1] and died
on 29 Mar 1461 [1] at Towton, YKS, ENG [1]. The cause of his death was
slain at the battle of Towton [1].
1. CP IX: 504, XIV: 498-9.

609. Anne Holand [1] died on 26 Dec 1486 [1].
1. CP V: 205-11, IX: 504, XIV: 312, 498-9.

616. Sir Humphrey Stafford [1] was born about 1424 [1] and died about
1458 [1] v.p.
1. CP II: 388-9, XII/1: 182, XIV: 589.

617. Margaret Beaufort [1] was born about 1437 [1] and died in 1474
[1].
1. CP II: 388-9, XII/1: 182, XIV: 589.

620. Sir Henry Percy Earl of Northumberland 2nd [1], was born on 25
Jul
1421 [1] in Leconsfield, Yks, Eng [1], died on 29 Mar 1461 [1] at
Towton, YKS, ENG [1], and was buried at St. Denis, YKS, ENG [1]. The
cause of his death was killed at the battle of Towton [1].
1. CP IX: 715-7, X: 665.

621. Eleanor Poynings Baroness Poynings [1], daughter of Sir Richard
Poynings and Eleanor Berkeley, was born about 1422 [1] and died in Feb
1484 [1].
1. CP IX: 715-7, X: 665.

630. Richard of York K.G., Duke of York 3rd [1], was born on 21 Sep
1411 [1], died on 30 Dec 1460 [1] at Wakefield, YKS, ENG [1], and was
buried at Fotheringhay, NTH, ENG [1]. The cause of his death was
killed
at the battle of Wakefield [1].
1. CP II: 494-5, XII/2: 905-9, XIV: 642, XIV: 136.

631. Cecilia 'The Rose of Raby' Neville [1], was born on 3 May 1415
[1]
in Raby, DUR, ENG [1], died on 31 May 1495 [1] at Berkampstead, HEF,
ENG
[1], and was buried at Fotheringhay, NTH, ENG [1].
1. CP II: 494-5, XII/2: 905-9, XIV: 642, XIV: 136.

774. Humphrey "The Good" of Gloucester, Duke of Gloucester [1], was
born on 3 Oct 1390 [1], died on 23 Feb 1447 [1] s.p.l. [1], and was
buried at the Abbey, St Albans, HRT, ENG [1].
1. CP III: 354 (d), VI: 138-9, VII: 417-8

Louise Staley

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Louise Staley » 03 aug 2005 08:25:12

Generations 11 - 12

Eleventh Generation

1218. Sir John Holand Duke of Exeter [1], was born on 29 Mar 1396 [1]
in Dartington, DEV, ENG [1], died on 5 Aug 1447 [1], and was buried at
the Church of St. Catherine-by-the-Tower, LND, ENG [1].
1. CP V: 195-200, 205-11, XIV: 311-312, I:245

1219. Anne Stafford [1], was born about 1406 [1], died about 24 Sep
1432 [1], and was buried at the Church of St. Catherine-by-the-Tower,
LND, ENG [1].
1. CP V: 176-8, 195-200, 205-11, XII/1: 180, XIV: 311-312, I:245

1232. Sir Humphrey Stafford K.G., Duke of Buckingham 1st [1], was born

on 15 Aug 1402 [1] at Raby, DUR, ENG [1], died on 10 Jul 1460 [1] at
Northampton, NTH, ENG, and was buried at Grey Friars, Northampton, NTH,

ENG [1]. The cause of his death was slain at the Battle of Northampton
[1].
1. CP II: 388-9, V: 176-8, XII/1: 180

1233. Anne Neville of Raby [1], was born about 1411 [1], died on 20
Sep
1480 [1], and was buried at Pleshy, ESS, ENG [1].
2. CP I: 425, II: 388-9, XII/2: 547, IX: 716, IX: 606, V: 281-287, IX:
336.

1234. Edmund Beaufort Duke of Somerset [1], was born about 1406 [1],
died on 22 May 1455 [1] in St Albans, HRT, ENG [1], and was buried at
the Chapel of the Blessed Virgin in the Abbey Church St Albans, HRT,
ENG
[1]. The cause of his death was killed at the first Battle of St.
Albans [1].
1. CP XII:/1: 49-53.

1235. Eleanor Beauchamp [1], daughter of Sir Richard Beauchamp K.G.,
Earl of Warwick and Elizabeth Berkeley Baroness Lisle suo jure, was
born
in 1407 [1] in Eddgenoch, WAR, ENG [1] and died on 6 Mar 1467 [1] at
Baynard's Castle, SRY, ENG [1].
1. CP XII:/1: 49-53.

1240. Henry Percy Earl of Northumberland 1st [1], was born on 3 Feb
1393 [1] at Alnwick, NTH, ENG [1] and died on 22 May 1455 [1] at St
Albans, HRT, ENG [1]. The cause of his death was battle of St Albans
[1].
1. CP IX: 713-14, X: 665.

1241. Eleanor Neville died in 1463.
1. CP IX: 713-14, X: 665.

1260. Richard of Conisborough Earl of Cambridge [1], was born about
Sep
1376 [1] in Conisborough Castle, YKS, ENG [1], died on 5 Aug 1415 [1]
at
Southampton, HAM, ENG [1], and was buried at Southampton, HAM, ENG [1].

The cause of his death was beheaded for conspiring to replace Henry V
with the Earl of March [1].
1. CP II:494-5, XIV:136

1261. Anne Mortimer [1] was born on 27 Dec 1390 [2] in New Forest,
Westmeath, IRE [2] died in Sep 1411 [2] and was buried at Kings
Langley,
HEF, ENG [2]. The cause of her death was childbirth [2].
1. CP II: 494-5, XIV: 136.
2. PA2, York: 8.

1262. Sir Ralph Neville Earl of Westmoreland 1st, K.G. [1], son of Sir

John Neville K.G., Baron Neville of Raby 3rd and Maud Percy, was born
before 1364 [1] in Raby, DUR, ENG [1], died on 21 Oct 1425 [1] at Raby,

DUR, ENG [1], and was buried at Staindrop Church, Raby, DUR, ENG [1].
1. CP I: 425, XII/2: 547, IX: 716, IX: 606, V: 281-287, IX: 336.

1263. Joan Beaufort [1], legitimated daughter of John 'of Gaunt' K.G.,

Duke of Lancaster and Katharine Roet L.G., was born in 1379 [1] in
Beaufort Castle, Meuse-et-Loire, FRA, [1] died on 13 Nov 1440 [1] in
Howden, YKS, ENG [1], and was buried in the Cathedral at Lincoln, LIN,
ENG [1].
1. CP I: 425, XII/2: 547, IX: 716, IX: 606, V: 281-287, IX: 336.

1548. King Henry IV 'Hal of Bolingbroke' King of England K.G. [1], was

born in Apr 1366 [1] in Bolingbroke Castle, LIN, ENG [1], died on 20
Mar
1413 [1] at Westminster, LND, ENG [1], and was buried in the Cathedral
at Canterbury, KEN, ENG [1]. The cause of his death was Leprosy, gout
or an apoplectic fit.
1. CP VII: 417-18.

1549. Lady Mary Bohun Queen Consort of England, L.G. [1], daughter of
Sir Humphrey Bohun K.G., Earl Of Herford and Joan Fitzalan, was born
about 1370 [2], died on 4 Jul 1394 [2] at Peterborough, Nth, Eng [2],
and was buried in the Cathedral at Canterbury, KEN, ENG [2]. The cause
of her death was childbirth [2].
1. CP VI: 477, VII: 417-18.
2. PA2, Lancaster: 10.


Twelfth Generation

2436. Sir John Holand K.G., Duke of Exeter, son of Sir Thomas Holand
Earl of Kent jure uxoris and Joan of Kent 'the Fair Maid of Kent'
Countess of Kent, Lady Wake suo jure, was born after 1350 [1], died
about 9 Jan 1400 [1] at Pleshy Castle, ESS, ENG [1], and was buried at
the Collegiate Church in Pleshy, ESS, ENG [1]. The cause of his death
was beheading for treason against his brother-in-law Henry IV [1].
1. CP I:245, V:195-200, XIV:311

2437. Lady Elizabeth of Lancaster L.G. [1], was born before 21 Feb
1363
[2], died on 24 Nov 1425 [1], and was buried at Burford, SAL, ENG [1].
1. CP I:245, V:195-200, XIV:311
2. PA2, Fiennes: 8.

2438. Sir Edmund Stafford K.G., Earl of Stafford 5th [1], son of Sir
Hugh Stafford K.G., Earl of Stafford 2nd and Philippa Beauchamp, was
born on 2 Mar 1378 [1], died on 21 Jul 1403 [1] at Shrewsbury, SAL, ENG

[1], and was buried at the Church of the Austin Friars at
Stafford,STS,ENG [1]. The cause of his death was killed at the battle
of Shrewsbury [1].
1. CP XII/1: 180.

2439. Anne of Gloucester, Countess of Buckingham [1], was born before
8
May 1383 [1] in Pleshy Castle, ESS, ENG [1], died between 16 and 24 Oct

1438 [1] and was buried at the Austin Friars Priory at Llanthony,
Gloucester, GLS, ENG [1].
1. CP V: 208, VI: 475-477, XII/1: 180-181.

2464. Sir Edmund Stafford K.G., Earl of Stafford 5th
(Duplicate. See Person 2438)

2465. Anne of Gloucester Countess of Buckingham
(Duplicate. See Person 2439)

2466. Ralph Neville Earl of Westmoreland 1st
(Duplicate. See Person 1262)

2467. Joan Beaufort,
(Duplicate. See Person 1263)

2468. Sir John Beaufort K.G., Earl & Marquess of Somerset and Dorset
[1], legitimated son of John 'of Gaunt' K.G., Duke of Lancaster and
Katharine Roet L.G., was born about 1373 in Beaufort Castle,
Meuse-et-Loire, FRA, died on 16 Mar 1410 in the hospital of St.
Catherine-by-the-Tower, LND, ENG, and was buried in the Cathedral at
Canterbury, KEN, ENG.
1. CP VII: 410-16, XIV: 421, XII:/1: 39-45.

2469. Margaret Holand [1], daughter of Thomas Holand K.G., Earl of
Kent
2nd and Alice Fitzalan, was born in 1385, died on 30 Dec 1439 [1] in
Bermondsey Abbey, SRY, ENG [1], and was buried in the Cathedral at
Canterbury, KEN, ENG.
1. CP VII: 410-16, XIV: 421, XII:/1: 39-45.

2480. Sir Henry 'Hotspur' Percy K.G., Baron Percy 5th [1], son of Sir
Henry Percy Earl of Northumberland 1st and Margaret Neville of Raby,
was
born on 20 May 1364 [1], died on 21 Jul 1403 [1] at Shrewsbury, SAL,
ENG
[1], and was buried in York Minster, YKS, ENG [1]. The cause of his
death was slain in the battle of Shrewsbury [1].
1. CP IX: 713-14.

2481. Elizabeth Mortimer [1], was born on 12 Feb 1371 [1] in Usk, MON,

WLS [1], died on 20 Apr 1417 [1], and was buried at Trotton, SSX, ENG
[1].
1. CP IX: 713-14.

2482. Ralph Neville Earl of Westmoreland 1st
(Duplicate, See Person 1262)

2483. Joan Beaufort
(Duplicate, See Person 1263)

2520. Edmund of Langley K.G., Earl of Cambridge, Duke of York [1], was

born on 5 Jun 1341 [1] in Kings Langley, HEF, ENG [1], died on 1 Aug
1402 [1] in Kings Langley, HEF, ENG [1], and was buried in Kings
Langley, HEF, ENG [1].
1. CP XII/2: 895-9.

2521. Isabella of Castille [1], daughter of King Pedro 'the Cruel'
King
of Castile and Leon and Mary Padilla, was born in 1355, died on 23 Nov
1392 [1], and was buried in Kings Langley, HEF, ENG.
1. CP XII/2: 895-9.

2522. Roger Mortimer Earl of March 4th [1], was born on 11 Apr 1374
[1]
at Usk, MON, WLS [1], was christened on 12 Apr 1374 [1] at Usk, MON,
WLS
[1], died on 20 Jul 1398 [1] at Kells, MEA, IRE [1], and was buried at
Wigmore, HEF, ENG [1].
1. CP VIII: 488-50

2523. Eleanor Holand [1], daughter of Thomas Holand K.G., Earl of Kent

2nd and Alice Fitzalan, was born about 1373 [1] in Upholland, LAN, ENG
[1] and died on 23 Oct 1405 [1]. The cause of her death was childbirth

[1].
1. CP VIII: 488-50, III: 161 XIV: 169

2526. Sir John 'of Gaunt' K.G., Duke of Lancaster, [1] was born on 24
Jun 1340 [1] in Ghent, Oost-Vlaanderen, Belgium [1] and died on 3 Feb
1399 [1] at Leicester, LEI, ENG [1].
1. CP VII: 410-16, X: 231-2, 393, XIV: 421.

2527. Lady Katharine Roet L.G. [1] was born on 25 Nov 1340 [1] in
Picardy, Hainault, FRA [1] and died on 10 May 1403 [1] in Lincoln, LIN,

ENG [1].
1. CP VII: 410-16, X: 231-2, 393, XIV: 421.

3096. John 'of Gaunt' K.G., Duke of Lancaster
(Duplicate. See Person 2526)

3097. Blanch of Lancaster [1], daughter of Henry of Grosmont Duke of
Lancaster and Isabel Beaumont, was born on 25 Mar 1345 [1] and died on
12 Sep 1369 [1] in Bolingbroke Castle, LIN,ENG [1]. The cause of her
death was probably plague.
1. CP VII: 410-16, XIV: 421.

Louise Staley

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Louise Staley » 03 aug 2005 08:25:43

Generations 13 - 15

Thirteenth Generation

4874. John 'of Gaunt' K.G., Duke of Lancaster
(Duplicate. See Person 2526)

4875. Blanch of Lancaster
(Duplicate. See Person 3097)

4878. Thomas of Woodstock K.G., Duke of Gloucester [1] was born on 7
Jan 1355 [1] in Woodstock, OXF, ENG [1], died on 15 Sep 1397 [1] at
Calais, Aquitaine, France [1], and was buried in Westminster Abbey,
LND,
ENG [1]. The cause of his death was murdered by suffocation in prison
awaiting trial [1].
1. CP II: 388, X: 231-2, 393.

4879. Lady Eleanor Bohun L.G. [1], daughter of Sir Humphrey Bohun
K.G.,
Earl of Herford and Joan Fitzalan, was born about 1366 [1] in Hereford,

HEF, ENG [1], died on 3 Oct 1399 [1] at the Minoress Convent in
Westminster, LND, ENG [1], and was buried in Westminster Abbey, LND,
ENG
[1].
1. CP II: 388, X: 231-2, 393.

4936. John 'of Gaunt' K.G., Duke of Lancaster
(Duplicate. See Person 2526)

4937. Katharine Roet L.G.
(Duplicate. See Person 2527)

4962. Sir Edmund Mortimer Knt., Earl of March 3rd [1], son of Sir
Roger
Mortimer K.G., Earl of March 2nd and Philippa Montagu, was born on 1
Feb
1352 [1] in Llangoed, BRE, WLS [1], died on 27 Dec 1381 [1] in Cork,
IRE
[1], and was buried in the Austin Friars Abbey at Wigmore, HEF, ENG
[1].
The cause of his death was complications from a head cold caught
crossing a river [1].
1. CP VIII:445-8, XIV:466

4963. Philippa of Clarence Countess of Ulster, Lady of Clare [1], was
born on 16 Aug 1355 [1] in Eltham Palace, KEN, ENG [1], died before 6
Dec 1379 [1], and was buried in the Austin Friars Abbey at Wigmore,
HEF,
ENG [1].
1. CP VIII:445-8, XIV:466

5040. King Edward III King of England

5041. Philippa Hainault L.G., Queen Consort of England

5044. Sir Edmund Mortimer Knt., Earl of March 3rd
(Duplicate. See Person 4962)

5045. Lady Philippa Plantagenet Countess of Ulster
(Duplicate. See Person 4963)

5052. King Edward III King of England
(Duplicate. See Person 5040)

5053. Philippa Hainault L.G., Queen Consort of England
(Duplicate. See Person 5041)


Fourteenth Generation

9756. King Edward III King of England
(Duplicate. See Person 5040)

9757. Philippa Hainault L.G., Queen Consort of England
(Duplicate. See Person 5041)

9926. Lionel of Antwerp K.G., Duke of Clarence, Earl of Ulster [1] was

born on 29 Nov 1338 [1] in Antwerp, Antwerpen, Belgium [1], died on 17
Oct 1368 [1] in Alba,Italy [1], and was buried at the Austin Friars
Priory in Clare, SFK, ENG [1].
1. CP III: 245, X:231-2, 393, XII/2:180.

9927. Elizabeth Burgh Lady of Clare [1], daughter of William Burgh
Earl
of Ulster 3rd and Maud of Lancaster, was born on 6 Jul 1332 [1] in
Carrickfergus Castle [1], died on 10 Dec 1363 [1] in Dublin, LEN, IRL
[1] and was buried at the Austin Friars Priory in Clare, SFK, ENG [1].
1. CP III: 245, X:231-2, 393, XII/2:180.


Fifteenth Generation

19852. King Edward III King of England
(Duplicate. See Person 5040)

19853. Philippa Hainault L.G., Queen Consort of England
(Duplicate. See Person 5041)

Gjest

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Gjest » 03 aug 2005 23:46:02

In a message dated 8/3/05 12:38:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
caramut@bigpond.com.au writes:

<< 4879. Lady Eleanor Bohun L.G. [1], daughter of Sir Humphrey Bohun
K.G., Earl of Herford and Joan Fitzalan, was born about 1366 [1] in
Hereford,
HEF, ENG [1], died on 3 Oct 1399 [1] at the Minoress Convent in
Westminster, LND, ENG [1], and was buried in Westminster Abbey, LND,
ENG [1]. 1. CP II: 388, X: 231-2, 393. >>

"Living Descendents of Blood Royal, "Edward III", pg xix, Count d'Angerville;
World Nobility, London. 1962 states that she died at Barking Abbey, Essex.

Will Johnson

Gjest

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Gjest » 03 aug 2005 23:49:01

In a message dated 8/3/05 12:38:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
caramut@bigpond.com.au writes:

<< 4962. Sir Edmund Mortimer Knt., Earl of March 3rd [1], son of Sir Roger
Mortimer K.G., Earl of March 2nd and Philippa Montagu, was born on 1 Feb
1352 [1] in Llangoed, BRE, WLS [1], died on 27 Dec 1381 [1] in Cork, IRE [1],
and was buried in the Austin Friars Abbey at Wigmore, HEF, ENG [1]. The cause
of his death was complications from a head cold caught crossing a river [1].
1. CP VIII:445-8, XIV:466 >>

His birth date should read 1 Feb 1351/2
And he died at the Dominican Priory in Cork

Will Johnson

Louise Staley

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Louise Staley » 03 aug 2005 23:52:16

Dear Will and Leo,

Thank-you for your series of corrections and additions to birth/death
dates and places. Please keep them coming.

I am confused, however, about your post questioning the parents of
Eleanor Neville as I have the Ralph Neville and Joan Beaufort you
suggest. Or are you making another point I haven't grasped?

1241. Eleanor Neville died in 1463.
1. CP IX: 713-14, X: 665.

2482. Ralph Neville Earl of Westmoreland 1st
(Duplicate, See Person 1262)

2483. Joan Beaufort
(Duplicate, See Person 1263)

And the references to persons 1262 and 1263 are:

1262. Sir Ralph Neville Earl of Westmoreland 1st, K.G. [1], son of Sir
John Neville K.G., Baron Neville of Raby 3rd and Maud Percy, was born
before 1364 [1] in Raby, DUR, ENG [1], died on 21 Oct 1425 [1] at Raby,
DUR, ENG [1], and was buried at Staindrop Church, Raby, DUR, ENG [1].
1. CP I: 425, XII/2: 547, IX: 716, IX: 606, V: 281-287, IX: 336.

1263. Joan Beaufort [1], legitimated daughter of John 'of Gaunt' K.G.,
Duke of Lancaster and Katharine Roet L.G., was born in 1379 [1] in
Beaufort Castle, Meuse-et-Loire, FRA, [1] died on 13 Nov 1440 [1] in
Howden, YKS, ENG [1], and was buried in the Cathedral at Lincoln, LIN,
ENG [1].
1. CP I: 425, XII/2: 547, IX: 716, IX: 606, V: 281-287, IX: 336.

On the issue of the page references for Eleanor in CP, I am sure you are
right Leo, (especially as I don't have CP on hand to check).

regards
Louise

Leo van de Pas wrote:
Dear Will,

I have the same. But your reference CP IX 713-14 should that be page 716?

Leo

----- Original Message ----- From: <WJhonson@aol.com
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1)


In a message dated 8/3/05 12:38:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
caramut@bigpond.com.au writes:

1241. Eleanor Neville died in 1463.
1. CP IX: 713-14, X: 665.

I have this Eleanor as a dau to Ralph Neville, 1st Earl of Westmoreland d
1425 and his wife Joan Beaufort d 1440
Is this wrong?
Thanks
Will



Gjest

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Gjest » 04 aug 2005 00:00:02

In a message dated 8/3/05 12:38:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
caramut@bigpond.com.au writes:

<< 1241. Eleanor Neville died in 1463.
1. CP IX: 713-14, X: 665. >>

I have this Eleanor as a dau to Ralph Neville, 1st Earl of Westmoreland d
1425 and his wife Joan Beaufort d 1440
Is this wrong?
Thanks
Will

Louise Staley

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Louise Staley » 04 aug 2005 00:06:56

Will, CP hasn't called him the 2nd Erl of Westmoreland, I have in error.
He should, as you suggest be the third, see XII/2: 551-2.

thanks
Louise

WJhonson@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 8/3/05 12:38:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
caramut@bigpond.com.au writes:

304. Sir Ralph Neville K.B., Earl of Westmoreland 2nd [1] was born in
1456 [1], died on 6 Feb 1499 [1] in Hornby Castle, YKS, ENG [1], and
was buried at Hornby, YKS, ENG [1]. 1. CP IX: 504, XIV: 498-9.

What does CP mean calling him "2nd" here?

Ralph Neville 1363-1425, 1st Earl of Westmoreland
then to his grandson
Ralph Neville 1406/7-1484, 2nd Earl of Westmoreland
then to his nephew
Ralph Neville 1456-99, 3rd Earl of Westmoreland

Right?
Will Johnson

Leo van de Pas

Eleanor de Bohun died where? was Re: EDWARD III to Roger COR

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 04 aug 2005 00:10:01

Dear Will,

That Lady Eleanor de Bohun died in Barking Abbey, Essex, and buried in
Westminster is also in Burke's Guide to the Royal Family page 202.

Cahiers de Saint Louis, first volume page 4, does not give any indication,
but in the last volume which gives the corrected version of the first
generations it mentions Aldgate Abbey and also buried in Westminster.

The Complete Peerage Volume V, page 728 gives that she died at the
Minoresses Convent in Aldgate and was buried in St.Edmund;s Chapel in
Westminster Abbey.

At the moment I have Barking Abbey in my data base, but I think I will go
with CP and change it. Or does anyone know for sure?
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas


----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1)


In a message dated 8/3/05 12:38:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
caramut@bigpond.com.au writes:

4879. Lady Eleanor Bohun L.G. [1], daughter of Sir Humphrey Bohun
K.G., Earl of Herford and Joan Fitzalan, was born about 1366 [1] in
Hereford,
HEF, ENG [1], died on 3 Oct 1399 [1] at the Minoress Convent in
Westminster, LND, ENG [1], and was buried in Westminster Abbey, LND,
ENG [1]. 1. CP II: 388, X: 231-2, 393.

"Living Descendents of Blood Royal, "Edward III", pg xix, Count
d'Angerville;
World Nobility, London. 1962 states that she died at Barking Abbey, Essex.

Will Johnson


Leo van de Pas

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 04 aug 2005 00:15:02

Dear Will,

You found an interesting problem here. Burke's Guide to the Royal Family
Page gives straightforward 1 February 1352.

CP Volume VIII page 445 gives 1 February 1351/2 (i)
footnote (i) The Wigmore Chronicler gives the date as 1351, 25 Edward III;
it should be 26 Edward III. Volume XIV does not say anything.

What is meant here? is 25 Edward III 1351, and 26 Edward III 1352 and are
they telling us he was born in 1352?

Leo

----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1)


In a message dated 8/3/05 12:38:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
caramut@bigpond.com.au writes:

4962. Sir Edmund Mortimer Knt., Earl of March 3rd [1], son of Sir
Roger
Mortimer K.G., Earl of March 2nd and Philippa Montagu, was born on 1 Feb
1352 [1] in Llangoed, BRE, WLS [1], died on 27 Dec 1381 [1] in Cork, IRE
[1],
and was buried in the Austin Friars Abbey at Wigmore, HEF, ENG [1]. The
cause
of his death was complications from a head cold caught crossing a river
[1].
1. CP VIII:445-8, XIV:466

His birth date should read 1 Feb 1351/2
And he died at the Dominican Priory in Cork

Will Johnson


Gjest

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Gjest » 04 aug 2005 00:16:01

In a message dated 8/3/05 12:38:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
caramut@bigpond.com.au writes:

<< 2520. Edmund of Langley K.G., Earl of Cambridge, Duke of York [1], was
born on 5 Jun 1341 [1] in Kings Langley, HEF, ENG [1], died on 1 Aug
1402 [1] in Kings Langley, HEF, ENG [1], and was buried in Kings
Langley, HEF, ENG [1]. 1. CP XII/2: 895-9. >>

Was he not buried in the Church of the Mendicant Friars' ?
Will Johnson

Gjest

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Gjest » 04 aug 2005 00:20:02

In a message dated 8/3/05 12:38:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
caramut@bigpond.com.au writes:

<< 2526. Sir John 'of Gaunt' K.G., Duke of Lancaster, [1] was born on 24
Jun 1340 [1] in Ghent, Oost-Vlaanderen, Belgium [1] and died on 3 Feb
1399 [1] at Leicester, LEI, ENG [1].
1. CP VII: 410-16, X: 231-2, 393, XIV: 421. >>

He was born at the Abbey of St Bavo in Ghent
And he died at Leicester Castle

Will Johnson

Leo van de Pas

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 04 aug 2005 00:22:01

Dear Will,

I have the same. But your reference CP IX 713-14 should that be page 716?

Leo

----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1)


In a message dated 8/3/05 12:38:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
caramut@bigpond.com.au writes:

1241. Eleanor Neville died in 1463.
1. CP IX: 713-14, X: 665.

I have this Eleanor as a dau to Ralph Neville, 1st Earl of Westmoreland d
1425 and his wife Joan Beaufort d 1440
Is this wrong?
Thanks
Will


Leo van de Pas

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 04 aug 2005 00:27:02

Dear Eill,

CP Volume XII/2 pages 898 and 899
First it tells that his first wife was buried in the church of the
Dominicans in Langley, then it tells that Edmund was buried there with his
first wife.
Leo


----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1)


In a message dated 8/3/05 12:38:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
caramut@bigpond.com.au writes:

2520. Edmund of Langley K.G., Earl of Cambridge, Duke of York [1], was
born on 5 Jun 1341 [1] in Kings Langley, HEF, ENG [1], died on 1 Aug
1402 [1] in Kings Langley, HEF, ENG [1], and was buried in Kings
Langley, HEF, ENG [1]. 1. CP XII/2: 895-9.

Was he not buried in the Church of the Mendicant Friars' ?
Will Johnson


Gjest

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Gjest » 04 aug 2005 00:31:02

In a message dated 8/3/05 12:38:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
caramut@bigpond.com.au writes:

<< 154. _Sir Edward Stafford K.G., Duke of Buckingham 3rd_ [1], was born
on
3 Feb 1478 [1] in Breconshire, WLS [1], died on 17 May 1521 [1] in The
Tower, LND, ENG [1], and was buried at Newgate, LND, ENG at the
Franciscan (Grey Friars, Friars Minor) Priory Church, Newgate Street
[1]. The cause of his death was executed for high treason after
incurring the enmity of Cardinal Wolsey.
1. CP II: 389-91, XIV: 121. >>

This seems a little stilted. Getting Wolsey angry at you was not a
chargeable offense. Maybe they could have actually stated what the charge was and then
added "but these charges are doubtful..." or some such thing.
Will

Gjest

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Gjest » 04 aug 2005 00:37:02

In a message dated 8/3/05 12:38:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
caramut@bigpond.com.au writes:

<< 304. Sir Ralph Neville K.B., Earl of Westmoreland 2nd [1] was born in
1456 [1], died on 6 Feb 1499 [1] in Hornby Castle, YKS, ENG [1], and
was buried at Hornby, YKS, ENG [1]. 1. CP IX: 504, XIV: 498-9. >>

What does CP mean calling him "2nd" here?

Ralph Neville 1363-1425, 1st Earl of Westmoreland
then to his grandson
Ralph Neville 1406/7-1484, 2nd Earl of Westmoreland
then to his nephew
Ralph Neville 1456-99, 3rd Earl of Westmoreland

Right?
Will Johnson

Gjest

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Gjest » 04 aug 2005 00:40:01

In a message dated 8/3/05 12:38:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
caramut@bigpond.com.au writes:

<< 309. Katharine Wydeville [1], daughter of Richard Wydeville of the
Mote, Earl Rivers 1st and Jacquette De Luxembourg, died before 1513
[1]. 1. CP II: 389-90, XII/1: 182, XIV: 121, 589. >>

She married abt 1491 Jasper Tudor, Earl of Pembroke, who d 1495

Leo has the specific death date for Catherine of 18 May 1497

Will Johnson

Leo van de Pas

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 04 aug 2005 00:45:01

Dear Will,

CP volume II pages 390-391 are more explicit.

....and having incurred ther enmity of Cardinal Wolsey, then Chief Minister,
was accused and found guilty, on very flimsy grounds, of high treason 13,
and executed on Tower Hill, 17 May 1521......

However, Wolsey was not the only one suspicious of this Duke of Buckingham.

Desmond Seward in his "Prince of the Renaissance, the Life of Francois I"
page 125 :

Men like Bourbon were doomed in the world of the Ranaissance Prince. There
is a tradition that, on the Field of the Cloth of Gold, Henry VIII told
Francois that if he had a subject like the Duke de Bourbon he would not
leave his head on his shoulders. Edward Stafford, Duke of Buckingham and
Constable of England, was a feudal dinosaur very like Bourbon. He too
possessed the greatest estates in the realm and royal blood, was haughty,
and somewhat contemptuous of his King. In 1521, suddenly, and witholut
warning, Henry VIII arrested him, accused him of treason, and beheaded him.

Hope this was of use?
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1)


In a message dated 8/3/05 12:38:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
caramut@bigpond.com.au writes:

154. _Sir Edward Stafford K.G., Duke of Buckingham 3rd_ [1], was born
on
3 Feb 1478 [1] in Breconshire, WLS [1], died on 17 May 1521 [1] in The
Tower, LND, ENG [1], and was buried at Newgate, LND, ENG at the
Franciscan (Grey Friars, Friars Minor) Priory Church, Newgate Street
[1]. The cause of his death was executed for high treason after
incurring the enmity of Cardinal Wolsey.
1. CP II: 389-91, XIV: 121.

This seems a little stilted. Getting Wolsey angry at you was not a
chargeable offense. Maybe they could have actually stated what the charge
was and then
added "but these charges are doubtful..." or some such thing.
Will


Gjest

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Gjest » 04 aug 2005 00:51:02

In a message dated 8/3/05 12:38:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
caramut@bigpond.com.au writes:

<< 616. Sir Humphrey Stafford [1] was born about 1424 [1] and died about
1458 [1] v.p. 1. CP II: 388-9, XII/1: 182, XIV: 589. >>

"Heraldry of the Royal Families of Europe", Jiri Louda and Michael Maclagan;
Clarkson N Potter, New York 1981 states that he died in battle of St Albans,

Will Johnson

Gjest

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Gjest » 04 aug 2005 00:54:01

In a message dated 8/3/05 12:38:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
caramut@bigpond.com.au writes:

<< 774. Humphrey "The Good" of Gloucester, Duke of Gloucester [1], was
born on 3 Oct 1390 [1], died on 23 Feb 1447 [1] s.p.l. [1], and was
buried at the Abbey, St Albans, HRT, ENG [1].
1. CP III: 354 (d), VI: 138-9, VII: 417-8 >>

"Living Descendents of Blood Royal, "Henry IV"", pg xxii, Count d'Angerville;
World Nobility, London. 1962
and http://www.wikipedia.org do not agree on whether he died or was assasinated but
say at Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk, England

Will Johnson

Gjest

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Gjest » 04 aug 2005 00:57:02

In a message dated 8/3/05 3:43:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
leovdpas@netspeed.com.au writes:

<< CP volume II pages 390-391 are more explicit.

...and having incurred ther enmity of Cardinal Wolsey, then Chief Minister,
was accused and found guilty, on very flimsy grounds, of high treason 13,
and executed on Tower Hill, 17 May 1521...... >>

Thank's for that Leo. I would have liked to see them be even more explicit
and tell us the nature of the treason :)
Will

Gjest

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Gjest » 04 aug 2005 00:58:01

"I am confused, however, about your post questioning the parents of
Eleanor Neville as I have the Ralph Neville and Joan Beaufort you
suggest. Or are you making another point I haven't grasped?"

No I was confused about the manner in which you were displaying the lineage.
Sorry.
Will

Louise Staley

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Louise Staley » 04 aug 2005 01:09:11

Thank-you Leo for posting the Seward quotation. I admit my way of
phrasing how and why Sir Edward Stafford died is rather stilted as Will
suggests so I'm open to suggestions that capture the essence of why
without taking up a paragraph.

Louise

Leo van de Pas wrote:
Dear Will,

CP volume II pages 390-391 are more explicit.

...and having incurred ther enmity of Cardinal Wolsey, then Chief
Minister, was accused and found guilty, on very flimsy grounds, of high
treason 13, and executed on Tower Hill, 17 May 1521......

However, Wolsey was not the only one suspicious of this Duke of Buckingham.

Desmond Seward in his "Prince of the Renaissance, the Life of Francois
I" page 125 :

Men like Bourbon were doomed in the world of the Ranaissance Prince.
There is a tradition that, on the Field of the Cloth of Gold, Henry VIII
told Francois that if he had a subject like the Duke de Bourbon he would
not leave his head on his shoulders. Edward Stafford, Duke of Buckingham
and Constable of England, was a feudal dinosaur very like Bourbon. He
too possessed the greatest estates in the realm and royal blood, was
haughty, and somewhat contemptuous of his King. In 1521, suddenly, and
witholut warning, Henry VIII arrested him, accused him of treason, and
beheaded him.

Hope this was of use?
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

----- Original Message ----- From: <WJhonson@aol.com
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1)


In a message dated 8/3/05 12:38:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
caramut@bigpond.com.au writes:

154. _Sir Edward Stafford K.G., Duke of Buckingham 3rd_ [1], was born
on
3 Feb 1478 [1] in Breconshire, WLS [1], died on 17 May 1521 [1] in The
Tower, LND, ENG [1], and was buried at Newgate, LND, ENG at the
Franciscan (Grey Friars, Friars Minor) Priory Church, Newgate Street
[1]. The cause of his death was executed for high treason after
incurring the enmity of Cardinal Wolsey.
1. CP II: 389-91, XIV: 121.

This seems a little stilted. Getting Wolsey angry at you was not a
chargeable offense. Maybe they could have actually stated what the
charge was and then
added "but these charges are doubtful..." or some such thing.
Will



Leo van de Pas

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 04 aug 2005 01:16:01

CP Volume II page 389, gives he was killed on 22 May 1455 in the battle of
St.Albans. Here he is also styled Earl of Stafford.

Gerald Paget has him as ancestor P 56825 and living 29 June 1457.

Cahiers de Saint Louis page 890 had him _died after 29 June 1457_
This segment of the Cahiers has quite a list of sources, including the
Complete Peerage.

However CP Volume XIV seems to have the answer.: read after 1455: He, who
was living 17 December 1457 and (presumably) 19 January 1457/8, died v.p.
circa 1459.

I have changed my entry for him in my computer system. Thanks for steering
me into this direction.
Leo


----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1)


In a message dated 8/3/05 12:38:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
caramut@bigpond.com.au writes:

616. Sir Humphrey Stafford [1] was born about 1424 [1] and died about
1458 [1] v.p. 1. CP II: 388-9, XII/1: 182, XIV: 589.

"Heraldry of the Royal Families of Europe", Jiri Louda and Michael
Maclagan;
Clarkson N Potter, New York 1981 states that he died in battle of St
Albans,

Will Johnson


Leo van de Pas

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 04 aug 2005 01:22:02

CP Volume V page 736 gives an interesting wording.

he died probably from natural causes, though being found dead while under
arrest, his end excited popular suspicion.


----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1)


In a message dated 8/3/05 12:38:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
caramut@bigpond.com.au writes:

774. Humphrey "The Good" of Gloucester, Duke of Gloucester [1], was
born on 3 Oct 1390 [1], died on 23 Feb 1447 [1] s.p.l. [1], and was
buried at the Abbey, St Albans, HRT, ENG [1].
1. CP III: 354 (d), VI: 138-9, VII: 417-8

"Living Descendents of Blood Royal, "Henry IV"", pg xxii, Count
d'Angerville;
World Nobility, London. 1962
and http://www.wikipedia.org do not agree on whether he died or was assasinated
but
say at Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk, England

Will Johnson


Leo van de Pas

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 04 aug 2005 01:24:02

As they appear to have been used as an excuse to get rid of him, they
probably were obscure. I understand one of the reasons given why Henry VIII
had Henry Howard, Earl of Surrey excuted was the kind of coat-of-arms he had
used.


----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1)


In a message dated 8/3/05 3:43:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
leovdpas@netspeed.com.au writes:

CP volume II pages 390-391 are more explicit.

...and having incurred ther enmity of Cardinal Wolsey, then Chief
Minister,
was accused and found guilty, on very flimsy grounds, of high treason 13,
and executed on Tower Hill, 17 May 1521......

Thank's for that Leo. I would have liked to see them be even more
explicit
and tell us the nature of the treason :)
Will


Leo van de Pas

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 04 aug 2005 01:41:02

CP Volume II Page 73 under Jasper Tudor, Duke of Bedford, her second
husband,
it only gives she married again Sir Richard Wingfield and _he_ died 22 July
1525 in Toledo, Spain. No date for her.

Gerald Paget in his work on the ancestors of Prince Charles has her under O
28414 but dying 21 December 1485 but as CP gives Jasper died 21 December
1495 and she survived him, this is obviously wrong.

Cahiers de Saint Louis mentions her on pages 133, 890 and 955 only with her
husbands.
No dates.

The other sources I have are the Mormon IGI but the one I think applicable
was kindly provided by Douglas Richardson at one stage, Glamorgan County
History bu H. T. Pugh (editor) volume 3, 1971. page 688. But I cannot be
sure this is where that date comes from. But it must be as in his
Plantagenet Ancestry page 675 he also gives 18 May 1497 as the date of her
death. I will enter this reference into my own data base.

Again, many thanks for making me look and double check.
Leo




----- Original Message -----
From: <WJhonson@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1)


In a message dated 8/3/05 12:38:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
caramut@bigpond.com.au writes:

309. Katharine Wydeville [1], daughter of Richard Wydeville of the
Mote, Earl Rivers 1st and Jacquette De Luxembourg, died before 1513
[1]. 1. CP II: 389-90, XII/1: 182, XIV: 121, 589.

She married abt 1491 Jasper Tudor, Earl of Pembroke, who d 1495

Leo has the specific death date for Catherine of 18 May 1497

Will Johnson


John H

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av John H » 04 aug 2005 01:45:43

Would either of you gentlemen please mind confirming
or correct for me the details I have of Ralph Neville
and his wife Joan Beaufort, and "fill in" any additional
BDM details that you may have and would be willing
to supply to me
Thanking you in anticipation.
++++++++++++++++++
I show Sir Ralph Neville born c 1364/5 Raby Castle
Durham England, died Raby Castle 21st October 1425
Knight of Garter, 4th Baron Neville of Rady ,
1397 1st Earl of Westmoreland
Died of natural causes.
Married (1) not known to me
(2) Joan Beaufort 3rd Feb 1397 place unknown (to me)
She born c1375 Beaufort, Anjou, France
died 13th Nov. 440 in Yorkshire, England

They had as one of their children Anne (Lady) Neville
born c 1411 place unknown (to me)
died 20th Sept 1480 at Pleshy, Essex, England.

Lady Anne married: -
(1) Sir Humphrey Stafford date and
place unknown (to me)
He born Raby, Durham, England 15th Aug. 1402
died 10 July 1480 at Battle, North Hamptonshire

(2) Walter Blount date & place unknown (to me)
I have no other details of him!

Any help would be appreciated.
regards
John H

<WJhonson@aol.com> wrote in message news:1f1.40f6cdc0.302297fd@aol.com...
In a message dated 8/3/05 12:38:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
caramut@bigpond.com.au writes:

1241. Eleanor Neville died in 1463.
1. CP IX: 713-14, X: 665.

I have this Eleanor as a dau to Ralph Neville, 1st Earl of Westmoreland d
1425 and his wife Joan Beaufort d 1440
Is this wrong?
Thanks
Will

Louise Staley

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways

Legg inn av Louise Staley » 04 aug 2005 02:04:57

I have been contacted off list by a couple of people confused/annoyed by
my way of presenting the data. For the benefit of anyone who would
rather have the data presented as lines instead of an ahnentafel, here
they are. You will see that lines A - I are through Eleanor Neville,
daughter of Sir Henry Neville, 5th Earl of Westmorland and Anne Manners
whereas lines J and K are through grandchildren of Antigone of
Gloucester, illegitimate daughter of Humphrey of Gloucester. I hope this
makes it clearer.

Louise


A. Westmorland
1 Roger Corbet
2 Robert Corbet = Elizabeth Kynaston
3 Pelham Corbet = Anne Corbet
4 Anne Pelham = William Corbet
5 Eleanor Neville = William Pelham
6 Henry Neville = Anne Manners
7 Ralph Neville = Katharine Stafford
8 Ralph Neville = Edith Sandys
9 Ralph Neville = Isabel Booth
10 Anne Holand = John Neville
11 John Holand = Anne Stafford
12 Elizabeth of Lancaster = John Holand
13 John of Gaunt = Blanch of Lancaster
14 Edward III = Philippa Hainault

B. Buckingham
6 Henry Neville = Anne Manners
7 Katharine Stafford = Ralph Neville
8 Edward Stafford = Eleanor Percy
9 Henry Stafford = Katharine Wydeville
10 Humphrey Stafford = Margaret Beaufort
11 Humphrey Stafford = Anne Neville
12 Anne of Gloucester = Edmund Stafford
13 Thomas of Woodstock = Eleanor Bohun
14 Edward III = Philippa Hainault

C. Northumberland
6 Henry Neville = Anne Manners
7 Katharine Stafford = Ralph Neville
8 Eleanor Percy = Edward Stafford
9 Henry Percy = Maud Herbert
10 Henry Percy = Eleanor Poynings
11 Henry Percy = Eleanor Neville
12 Elizabeth Mortimer = Henry Percy
13 Philippa of Clarence = Edmund Mortimer
14 Lionel of Antwerp = Elizabeth Burgh
15 Edward III = Philippa Hainault

D. Somerset
6 Henry Neville = Anne Manners
7 Katharine Stafford = Ralph Neville
8 Edward Stafford = Eleanor Percy
9 Henry Stafford = Katharine Wydeville
10 Margaret Beaufort = Humphrey Stafford
11 Edmund Beaufort = Eleanor Beauchamp
12 John Beaufort = Margaret Holand
13 John of Gaunt = Katharine Roet
14 Edward III = Philippa Hainault

E. Poynings
6 Henry Neville = Anne Manners
7 Katharine Stafford = Ralph Neville
8 Eleanor Percy = Edward Stafford
9 Henry Percy = Maud Herbert
10 Henry Percy = Eleanor Poynings
11 Eleanor Neville = Henry Percy
12 Joan Beaufort = Ralph Neville
13 John of Gaunt = Katharine Roet
14 Edward III = Philippa Hainault

F. Woodstock
6 Henry Neville = Anne Manners
7 Ralph Neville = Katharine Stafford
8 Ralph Neville = Edith Sandys
9 Ralph Neville = Isabel Booth
10 Anne Holand = John Neville
11 Anne Stafford = John Holand
12 Anne of Gloucester = Edmund Stafford
13 Thomas of Woodstock = Eleanor Bohun
14 Edward III = Philippa Hainault

G. The Rose of Raby
6 Anne Manners = Henry Neville
7 Thomas Manners = Eleanor Paston
8 Anne St. Leger = George Manners
9 Anne of York = Thomas St. Leger
10 Cecilia Neville = Richard of York
11 Joan Beaufort = Ralph Neville
12 John of Gaunt = Katharine Roet
13 Edward III = Philippa Hainault

H. Cambridge
6 Anne Manners = Henry Neville
7 Thomas Manners = Eleanor Paston
8 Anne St. Leger = George Manners
9 Anne of York = Thomas St. Leger
10 Richard of York = Cecilia Neville
11 Richard of Conisborough = Anne Mortimer
12 Edmund of Langley = Isabella of Castille
13 Edward III = Philippa Hainault

I. March
6 Anne Manners = Henry Neville
7 Thomas Manners = Eleanor Paston
8 Anne St. Leger = George Manners
9 Anne of York = Thomas St. Leger
10 Richard of York = Cecilia Neville
11 Anne Mortimer = Richard of Conisborough
12 Roger Mortimer = Eleanor Holand
13 Philippa of Clarence = Edmund Mortimer
14 Lionel of Antwerp = Elizabeth Burgh
15 Edward III = Philippa Hainault

J. Corbet of Lee
1 Roger Corbet
2 Robert Corbet = Elizabeth Kynaston
3 Pelham Corbet = Anne Corbet
4 William Corbet = Anne Pelham
5 Thomas Corbet = Elizabeth Williams
6 William Corbet = Alice Lacon
7 John Corbet = Margaret Blount
8 Jane Kynaston = Thomas Corbet
9 Elizabeth Grey = Roger Kynaston
10 Antigone of Gloucester = Henry Grey
11 Humphrey of Gloucester
12 Henry IV = Mary Bohun
13 John of Gaunt = Blanch of Lancaster
14 Edward III = Philippa Hainault

K. Kynaston of Hordley
1 Roger Corbet
2 Elizabeth Kynaston = Robert Corbet
3 Roger Kynaston = Rebecca Weld
4 Edward Kynaston = Mary Owen
5 Roger Kynaston = Margaret Vaughan
6 Edward Kynaston = Margaret Lloyd
7 Humphrey Kynaston = Elsbeth verch Maredudd
8 Elizabeth Grey = Roger Kynaston
9 Antigone of Gloucester = Henry Grey
10 Humphrey of Gloucester
11 Henry IV = Mary Bohun
12 John of Gaunt = Blanch of Lancaster
13 Edward III = Philippa Hainault

Gjest

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Gjest » 04 aug 2005 02:15:01

Dear Leo,
As I recall, Henry, Earl of Surrey was executed for having
the royal arms quartered with his own without the Sovereign`s permission.
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA

Leo van de Pas

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 04 aug 2005 02:22:01

I thought you had it almost as CP. Don't forget Sewards book is a book to be
read whereas CP is a genealogical source which squeezes in as much as it can
in as small a space as it can. Still neither said _what_ the treason was.
Leo


----- Original Message -----
From: "Louise Staley" <caramut@removethis.bigpond.com.au>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1)


Thank-you Leo for posting the Seward quotation. I admit my way of phrasing
how and why Sir Edward Stafford died is rather stilted as Will suggests so
I'm open to suggestions that capture the essence of why without taking up
a paragraph.

Louise

Leo van de Pas wrote:
Dear Will,

CP volume II pages 390-391 are more explicit.

...and having incurred ther enmity of Cardinal Wolsey, then Chief
Minister, was accused and found guilty, on very flimsy grounds, of high
treason 13, and executed on Tower Hill, 17 May 1521......

However, Wolsey was not the only one suspicious of this Duke of
Buckingham.

Desmond Seward in his "Prince of the Renaissance, the Life of Francois I"
page 125 :

Men like Bourbon were doomed in the world of the Ranaissance Prince.
There is a tradition that, on the Field of the Cloth of Gold, Henry VIII
told Francois that if he had a subject like the Duke de Bourbon he would
not leave his head on his shoulders. Edward Stafford, Duke of Buckingham
and Constable of England, was a feudal dinosaur very like Bourbon. He too
possessed the greatest estates in the realm and royal blood, was haughty,
and somewhat contemptuous of his King. In 1521, suddenly, and witholut
warning, Henry VIII arrested him, accused him of treason, and beheaded
him.

Hope this was of use?
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

----- Original Message ----- From: <WJhonson@aol.com
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1)


In a message dated 8/3/05 12:38:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
caramut@bigpond.com.au writes:

154. _Sir Edward Stafford K.G., Duke of Buckingham 3rd_ [1], was born
on
3 Feb 1478 [1] in Breconshire, WLS [1], died on 17 May 1521 [1] in The
Tower, LND, ENG [1], and was buried at Newgate, LND, ENG at the
Franciscan (Grey Friars, Friars Minor) Priory Church, Newgate Street
[1]. The cause of his death was executed for high treason after
incurring the enmity of Cardinal Wolsey.
1. CP II: 389-91, XIV: 121.

This seems a little stilted. Getting Wolsey angry at you was not a
chargeable offense. Maybe they could have actually stated what the
charge was and then
added "but these charges are doubtful..." or some such thing.
Will





Louise Staley

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Louise Staley » 04 aug 2005 02:24:56

Dear John,

While I am neither of the two gentlemen you addressed your message to, I
can fill in some blanks.

Louise

John H wrote:
Would either of you gentlemen please mind confirming
or correct for me the details I have of Ralph Neville
and his wife Joan Beaufort, and "fill in" any additional
BDM details that you may have and would be willing
to supply to me
Thanking you in anticipation.
++++++++++++++++++
I show Sir Ralph Neville born c 1364/5 Raby Castle
Durham England, died Raby Castle 21st October 1425
Knight of Garter, 4th Baron Neville of Rady ,
1397 1st Earl of Westmoreland
Died of natural causes.
Married (1) not known to me

Ralph married firstly Margaret Stafford, daughter of Sir Hugh Stafford
K.G., Earl of Stafford 2nd and Philippa Beauchamp. Margaret died 9 June
1396.

(2) Joan Beaufort 3rd Feb 1397 place unknown (to me)
She born c1375 Beaufort, Anjou, France
died 13th Nov. 440 in Yorkshire, England

Joan Beaufort [1], legitimated daughter of John 'of Gaunt' K.G., Duke of
Lancaster and Katharine Roet L.G., was born in 1379 [1] in Beaufort
Castle, Meuse-et-Loire, FRA, [1] died on 13 Nov 1440 [1] in Howden, YKS,
ENG [1], and was buried in the Cathedral at Lincoln, LIN, ENG [1].
1. CP I: 425, XII/2: 547, IX: 716, IX: 606, V: 281-287, IX: 336.

They had as one of their children Anne (Lady) Neville
born c 1411 place unknown (to me)
died 20th Sept 1480 at Pleshy, Essex, England.

Lady Anne married: -

Married before 18 October 1424

(1) Sir Humphrey Stafford date and
place unknown (to me)
He born Raby, Durham, England 15th Aug. 1402
died 10 July 1480 at Battle, North Hamptonshire

Sir Humphrey Stafford K.G., Duke of Buckingham 1st, son of Sir Edmund
Stafford K.G., Earl of Stafford 5th and Anne of Gloucester Countess of
Buckingham, was born on 15 Aug 1402 in Raby, DUR, ENG, died on 10 Jul
1460 in Northampton, NTH, ENG, and was buried in Northampton, NTH, ENG.
The cause of his death was slain at the Battle of Northampton.

(2) Walter Blount date & place unknown (to me)

Married before 25 November 1467

I have no other details of him!

Sir Walter Blount, 1st Baron Mountjoy son of Sir Thomas Blount and
Margaret Gresley, born 1420, died 1 August 1474.

Any help would be appreciated.
regards
John H

Leo van de Pas

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 04 aug 2005 02:55:02

Dear James,

Do you know "The Dukes of Norfolk" by John Martin Robinson?

Chapter 4 is "The Poet Earl", on page 41

"The awareness of this genealogy and his Plantagenet connections, combined
with an innate pride, ws to be the cause of his destruction.

Page 49
Hertford and his henchmen stored away their resentment (toward Henry
Howard), and then when their moment came, set bout the destruction of their
rival. Following Surrey's City 'riot', the gossip of the mainds in Mistress
Arundell's house had been heeded by the Privy Council: "That once when my
lord of Surrey was displeased about buying of cloth she told her maids in
the kitchen how he fumed; and added 'I marvel they will thus mock a Prince"
"Why," quoth Alys her maid, "is he a Prince?" "Yea, Mary is he" quote his
deponent, "and if aught should come at the King but good, his father should
stand for king." One of the maids, Joan Whetnall, suggested the idea which
was to be developed into a principal indictment against the Earl at his
trial in 1547, 'talking with her fellow touching my lord of Surrey's bed,
she said the arms were very like the King's."

Whatever the reason, witnesses were soon rushing tgo ingratiate themselves
by furnishing the Privy Council with an array of evidence olf almost
ludicrous trivility. Sir Richard Southwell seems to have opened the campaign
with the information that Surrey had a shield of armsat Kenninghall which
constituted treason.

Surrey was quietly arrested etc.........

Henry Howard, Earl of Surrey is an ancestor of Prince William of Wales and
of Gateway Ancestors William Tryon and Hon. Robert Monckton.

Hope this is of interest.
Leo


----- Original Message -----
From: <Jwc1870@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1)


Dear Leo,
As I recall, Henry, Earl of Surrey was executed for
having
the royal arms quartered with his own without the Sovereign`s permission.
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA


John H

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av John H » 04 aug 2005 05:13:18

Louise
Thank you for you reply,
Most helpful
Boy oh Boy, those families "cross/inter" married each other an awful lot
ie Stafford/Beachamp/ Neville and others, one way to keep
hold of all the lands, titles etc I guess.
Just curious, but where do you get all this early iunformation from to
ensure its accuracy?
John H

"Louise Staley" <caramut@removethis.bigpond.com.au> wrote in message
news:42f16e4f@news.comindico.com.au...
Dear John,

While I am neither of the two gentlemen you addressed your message to, I
can fill in some blanks.

Louise

John H wrote:
Would either of you gentlemen please mind confirming
or correct for me the details I have of Ralph Neville
and his wife Joan Beaufort, and "fill in" any additional
BDM details that you may have and would be willing
to supply to me
Thanking you in anticipation.
++++++++++++++++++
I show Sir Ralph Neville born c 1364/5 Raby Castle
Durham England, died Raby Castle 21st October 1425
Knight of Garter, 4th Baron Neville of Rady ,
1397 1st Earl of Westmoreland
Died of natural causes.
Married (1) not known to me

Ralph married firstly Margaret Stafford, daughter of Sir Hugh Stafford
K.G., Earl of Stafford 2nd and Philippa Beauchamp. Margaret died 9 June
1396.

(2) Joan Beaufort 3rd Feb 1397 place unknown (to me)
She born c1375 Beaufort, Anjou, France
died 13th Nov. 440 in Yorkshire, England

Joan Beaufort [1], legitimated daughter of John 'of Gaunt' K.G., Duke of
Lancaster and Katharine Roet L.G., was born in 1379 [1] in Beaufort
Castle, Meuse-et-Loire, FRA, [1] died on 13 Nov 1440 [1] in Howden, YKS,
ENG [1], and was buried in the Cathedral at Lincoln, LIN, ENG [1].
1. CP I: 425, XII/2: 547, IX: 716, IX: 606, V: 281-287, IX: 336.

They had as one of their children Anne (Lady) Neville
born c 1411 place unknown (to me)
died 20th Sept 1480 at Pleshy, Essex, England.

Lady Anne married: -

Married before 18 October 1424

(1) Sir Humphrey Stafford date and
place unknown (to me)
He born Raby, Durham, England 15th Aug. 1402
died 10 July 1480 at Battle, North Hamptonshire

Sir Humphrey Stafford K.G., Duke of Buckingham 1st, son of Sir Edmund
Stafford K.G., Earl of Stafford 5th and Anne of Gloucester Countess of
Buckingham, was born on 15 Aug 1402 in Raby, DUR, ENG, died on 10 Jul
1460 in Northampton, NTH, ENG, and was buried in Northampton, NTH, ENG.
The cause of his death was slain at the Battle of Northampton.


(2) Walter Blount date & place unknown (to me)

Married before 25 November 1467

I have no other details of him!

Sir Walter Blount, 1st Baron Mountjoy son of Sir Thomas Blount and
Margaret Gresley, born 1420, died 1 August 1474.


Any help would be appreciated.
regards
John H

Louise Staley

Re: EDWARD III to Roger CORBET of Albright Hussey 11 Ways (1

Legg inn av Louise Staley » 05 aug 2005 00:27:40

John H wrote:
Louise
Thank you for you reply,
Most helpful
Boy oh Boy, those families "cross/inter" married each other an awful lot
ie Stafford/Beachamp/ Neville and others, one way to keep
hold of all the lands, titles etc I guess.
Just curious, but where do you get all this early iunformation from to
ensure its accuracy?
John H

In these particular cases it is all in CP as we are talking about the
higher echelons of the English peerage. Which sources I use tend to
depend on who I am writing about. If it's someone from the medieval
peerage I'll start with CP and cite only that if there have been no
corrections to its information. If it's someone outside the peerage then
I look first at the American compilations (Weis, Faris, Richardson)
and cite whoever published the information first. If the person is not
there, as many of mine aren't because I don't have American gateway
ancestry, then I look at Leo and Tim's sites for clues about sources,
then I search the SGM archives for previous mentions and possible
sources. If none of these places mention the person I am interested in
then I fall back on Burkes, the Visitations or online sources and try
and bolster what they say with primary sources from A2A, the PRO, PCC
wills etc.

You will see from the early generations (1-4) posted in the original
messages in this thread that they rely heavily on a combination of
contemporary, primary source documents and unsourced compilations. This
is in contrast to later generations where I only use CP unless there is
a good reason (such as missing information) to cite someone else).

Unless there is no alternative I try very hard not to reinvent the
wheel. If someone else has documented the lines I am interested in then
I think they should be cited rather than me citing the source documents
they use. As an academic in real life I attempt to transfer the citing
and referencing standards from my discipline (politics) to my hobby of
genealogy. Sometimes this is easier said than done. For example I am in
the process of moving to citing articles from, for example, "TAG" and
"The Genealogist" in preference to the American compilations and to
citing these articles in the traditional academic manner of author and
date rather than journal and volume often seen in genealogy.

However, to answer your question as to how can I ensure its accuracy? I
don't tend to think that way with medieval genealogy. Instead I look at
whether it is accepted by reputable authors and what their reasons are.
This is why I will cite CP without checking its sources but will always
try and bolster a Visitation or Burkes.

On a more philosophical note, as I have progressed with medieval
ancestor hunting, for I make no excuses around the fact I am primarily
interested in my own ancestry, I've found that the process of sourcing,
and evaluating arguments over sources, is more rewarding than adding new
names to my database. I still have a long way to go to source all the
names I've collected but I am enthused when I find evidence to sustain
or discount traditional accounts.

Sorry about the long-winded reply to what, on the face of it, is a
simple question. I just think it actually goes to the heart of what we
do here.

regards
Louise

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