Douglas Richardson posted recently the following
information regarding Essex property held by Sir
Richard de Lucy:
1135-1152: Sir Richard de Lucy received Chipping
Ungar, Crishall, Roding, and Stanford Rivers as gift
from King Stephen and his wife Queen Maud.
1153-1154: The above gift was confirmed by their son
William Count of Boulogne.
The following evidence supports the existence of this
gift. The Essex properties were held thereafter by the
de Redvers family, and finally many properties in
Essex were sold in the 1300s.
Richard de Redvers married Matilda de Lucy (daughter
Geoffrey de Lucy) presumably in the late 1100s. Quite
possibly the Essex proeprty was part of Matilda's
dower.
An alternate explanation (possible) of the transfer of
property into the Ripariis family is that perhaps
Manaser Biset acquired the Essex property initially
from Sir Richard de Lucy. His grand daughter Margaret
(eldest daughter of John Biset) married Richard de
Ryvers before 1241, and the Essex property was part of
her dower.
There are many Ripariis records that present evidence
that they held the Essex property commencing in the
early 13th century:
1243 Richard Ripariis of Ongar Essex died.
1250 Margery de Ripariis (wife of the deceased Richard
was the daughter of John Biset. She died 1252
Note the above information is available at St Denys
Priory Southampton (I have not seen it)
1286: Final Concord between John de Ripariis and wife
Matilda (Plaintiff) and Simon de Creye (Sen)
(defendant) of manors of Hangre and Stamford (Essex)
and manor of Burgate (Hants)
(PRO Hants)
1299: John de Ripariis Baron summoned to Parliament
(1299-1307) There is a celebrated letter from him to
the pope signed "Johannes de Ripariis Dominus de
Angre"
(Burkes Ext Peers)
1308/1310:1313/1314: There are at least eight property
transactions involving Essex properties including:
Manor of Stamford
The Hundred of Angre
Manor of Est Merseye
Manor of Stanford Rivers
(Patent Rolls)
Late 13th/early 14th Century: Grant by John de Ryvers
Lord of Angre to Dom. Ralph de Monte Hermeri of manor
of Langan.
(A2A)
1324: License for Richard de Ripariis Knight to
enfeoff manor of Estmereseye Essex held in chief in
the honour of Reylech and regrant to Robert de
Ripariis and Joan (wife)
(Patent Rolls)
1325: (Dec 6th) License for Edmund de Bohun and Maud
(wife) to enfeoff Roger de Ryvers of manor of
Christehale Essex held in chief of the castle of Angre
and of the manor of Elmedon Essex held in chief as
honour of Boulogne as appears by inquisition made by
John de Blumvill escheator in the county of Essex etc;
and for him to regrant the same to them and the heirs
of Edmund.
(Patent Rolls)
I would suggest Douglas Richardson that you study the
1325 License because you may find further information
regarding the property's connection with the honor of
Boulogne.
NOTE: Late in the 1300s John Bulkeley, son of Robert
Bulkley of Eaton (Eyton) Cheshire, married Christiana
de Ripariis, daughter of Sir John de Ripariis.
The Ripariis line died out, and finally William
Bulkley, son of John and Christiana, held all the
Ripariis family properties in the mid 1400s.
Sincerely Yours,
Paul Bulkley
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Rohesa, wife of Sir Richard de Lucy, Justiciar of England
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Douglas Richardson royala
Re: Rohesa, wife of Sir Richard de Lucy, Justiciar of Englan
Dear Paul ~
Thank you for your good post. Much appreciated.
You have things a little garbled. Let's see if we can get the train
of events straightened out for you.
In my extended pedigree of the Lucy family (part of which is re-posted
below), I showed that Sir Richard de Lucy's great-granddaughter was
Maud de Lucy, wife successively of Geoffrey de Lascelles and Richard de
Rivers. Maud was the heiress of Ongar, Essex, which Sir Richard de
Lucy her ancestress had by grant of King Stephen.
This property was Maud de Lucy's inheritance, not her dower. Also,
Maud was not the daughter of Geoffrey de Lucy as you have it. Rather,
she was his granddaughter. Maud's parents were an earlier Maud de Lucy
and her husband, William de Beauchamp. As best I can determine, both
mother and daughter were known as Maud de Lucy, which is somewhat
unusual.
In your post, you have used the surnames Rivers, Ripariis, and Redvers
indifferently. Ripariis is simply the Latin form of Rivers. It was
Richard de Rivers (not Redvers) who married Maud de Lucy.
Manasser Biset did not acquire any of the Lucy lands in Essex.
Rather, the Lucy lands in Essex descended by right of inheritance from
Sir Richard de Lucy to his heirs, among them being his
great-granddaughter, Maud de Lucy, wife successively of Geoffrey de
Lascelles and Richard de Rivers. From Maud, they passed onto her
Rivers heirs. In time, the heir of the Rivers family was found to be
an individual named Bulkeley. I believe the Bulkeley family inherited
the manor of Fordingbridge, Hampshire as heir of the Rivers family, as
indicated by VCH Hampshire. The Bulkeley family did not inherit Ongar,
Essex, as that property had been alienated much earlier. Had it not
been alienated, the Bulkeley family would have been heir to Ongar,
Essex as well. Ongar, Essex had no connection whatsoever to Manasser
Biset.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: http://www.royalancestry.net
....C1. Maud de Lucy, +about 1243, m. (1) before Sept. 1195 Geoffrey de
Lascelles; m. (2) 1214 Richard de Rivers (+1222)
.....D1. (by 2) Richard de Rivers, of Chipping Ongar and Stanford
Rivers, Essex, +before 25 Apr. 1243, m. before 2 Nov. 1241 Margery
Biset (+Dec. 1256)
......E1. John de Rivers, of Chipping Ongar and Stanford Rivers,
Essex,*about 1239/40, +before 1 Apr. 1294, m. (1) Mary de Tany; m. (2)
before 1268 Maud de Creye; m. (3) Christian _____ (+after 1295)
......E2. Maud de Rivers, +after 1255
.....D2. (by 2) Baldwin de Rivers, +1256
.....D3. (by 2) John de Rivers
......E1. John de Rivers, +after 1271
paul bulkley wrote:
Thank you for your good post. Much appreciated.
You have things a little garbled. Let's see if we can get the train
of events straightened out for you.
In my extended pedigree of the Lucy family (part of which is re-posted
below), I showed that Sir Richard de Lucy's great-granddaughter was
Maud de Lucy, wife successively of Geoffrey de Lascelles and Richard de
Rivers. Maud was the heiress of Ongar, Essex, which Sir Richard de
Lucy her ancestress had by grant of King Stephen.
This property was Maud de Lucy's inheritance, not her dower. Also,
Maud was not the daughter of Geoffrey de Lucy as you have it. Rather,
she was his granddaughter. Maud's parents were an earlier Maud de Lucy
and her husband, William de Beauchamp. As best I can determine, both
mother and daughter were known as Maud de Lucy, which is somewhat
unusual.
In your post, you have used the surnames Rivers, Ripariis, and Redvers
indifferently. Ripariis is simply the Latin form of Rivers. It was
Richard de Rivers (not Redvers) who married Maud de Lucy.
Manasser Biset did not acquire any of the Lucy lands in Essex.
Rather, the Lucy lands in Essex descended by right of inheritance from
Sir Richard de Lucy to his heirs, among them being his
great-granddaughter, Maud de Lucy, wife successively of Geoffrey de
Lascelles and Richard de Rivers. From Maud, they passed onto her
Rivers heirs. In time, the heir of the Rivers family was found to be
an individual named Bulkeley. I believe the Bulkeley family inherited
the manor of Fordingbridge, Hampshire as heir of the Rivers family, as
indicated by VCH Hampshire. The Bulkeley family did not inherit Ongar,
Essex, as that property had been alienated much earlier. Had it not
been alienated, the Bulkeley family would have been heir to Ongar,
Essex as well. Ongar, Essex had no connection whatsoever to Manasser
Biset.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: http://www.royalancestry.net
....C1. Maud de Lucy, +about 1243, m. (1) before Sept. 1195 Geoffrey de
Lascelles; m. (2) 1214 Richard de Rivers (+1222)
.....D1. (by 2) Richard de Rivers, of Chipping Ongar and Stanford
Rivers, Essex, +before 25 Apr. 1243, m. before 2 Nov. 1241 Margery
Biset (+Dec. 1256)
......E1. John de Rivers, of Chipping Ongar and Stanford Rivers,
Essex,*about 1239/40, +before 1 Apr. 1294, m. (1) Mary de Tany; m. (2)
before 1268 Maud de Creye; m. (3) Christian _____ (+after 1295)
......E2. Maud de Rivers, +after 1255
.....D2. (by 2) Baldwin de Rivers, +1256
.....D3. (by 2) John de Rivers
......E1. John de Rivers, +after 1271
paul bulkley wrote:
Douglas Richardson posted recently the following
information regarding Essex property held by Sir
Richard de Lucy:
1135-1152: Sir Richard de Lucy received Chipping
Ungar, Crishall, Roding, and Stanford Rivers as gift
from King Stephen and his wife Queen Maud.
1153-1154: The above gift was confirmed by their son
William Count of Boulogne.
The following evidence supports the existence of this
gift. The Essex properties were held thereafter by the
de Redvers family, and finally many properties in
Essex were sold in the 1300s.
Richard de Redvers married Matilda de Lucy (daughter
Geoffrey de Lucy) presumably in the late 1100s. Quite
possibly the Essex proeprty was part of Matilda's
dower.
An alternate explanation (possible) of the transfer of
property into the Ripariis family is that perhaps
Manaser Biset acquired the Essex property initially
from Sir Richard de Lucy. His grand daughter Margaret
(eldest daughter of John Biset) married Richard de
Ryvers before 1241, and the Essex property was part of
her dower.
There are many Ripariis records that present evidence
that they held the Essex property commencing in the
early 13th century:
1243 Richard Ripariis of Ongar Essex died.
1250 Margery de Ripariis (wife of the deceased Richard
was the daughter of John Biset. She died 1252
Note the above information is available at St Denys
Priory Southampton (I have not seen it)
1286: Final Concord between John de Ripariis and wife
Matilda (Plaintiff) and Simon de Creye (Sen)
(defendant) of manors of Hangre and Stamford (Essex)
and manor of Burgate (Hants)
(PRO Hants)
1299: John de Ripariis Baron summoned to Parliament
(1299-1307) There is a celebrated letter from him to
the pope signed "Johannes de Ripariis Dominus de
Angre"
(Burkes Ext Peers)
1308/1310:1313/1314: There are at least eight property
transactions involving Essex properties including:
Manor of Stamford
The Hundred of Angre
Manor of Est Merseye
Manor of Stanford Rivers
(Patent Rolls)
Late 13th/early 14th Century: Grant by John de Ryvers
Lord of Angre to Dom. Ralph de Monte Hermeri of manor
of Langan.
(A2A)
1324: License for Richard de Ripariis Knight to
enfeoff manor of Estmereseye Essex held in chief in
the honour of Reylech and regrant to Robert de
Ripariis and Joan (wife)
(Patent Rolls)
1325: (Dec 6th) License for Edmund de Bohun and Maud
(wife) to enfeoff Roger de Ryvers of manor of
Christehale Essex held in chief of the castle of Angre
and of the manor of Elmedon Essex held in chief as
honour of Boulogne as appears by inquisition made by
John de Blumvill escheator in the county of Essex etc;
and for him to regrant the same to them and the heirs
of Edmund.
(Patent Rolls)
I would suggest Douglas Richardson that you study the
1325 License because you may find further information
regarding the property's connection with the honor of
Boulogne.
NOTE: Late in the 1300s John Bulkeley, son of Robert
Bulkley of Eaton (Eyton) Cheshire, married Christiana
de Ripariis, daughter of Sir John de Ripariis.
The Ripariis line died out, and finally William
Bulkley, son of John and Christiana, held all the
Ripariis family properties in the mid 1400s.
Sincerely Yours,
Paul Bulkley