Descendants of Sir Richard de Lucy and Rohese of Boulogne

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Descendants of Sir Richard de Lucy and Rohese of Boulogne

Legg inn av Gjest » 02 aug 2005 17:50:11

A few days ago I posted the following, which does not seem to have found its
way onto the list:-

In his very impressive and valuable post Douglas Richardson wrote
<snip>
.....D2. Gerard de Furnival, of Great Munden, Hertfordshire, +Holy Land
1240, m. Christian Ledet, widow of Henry de Braybrooke (she +1271, bur.
Bushmead Priory)
......E1. Gerard de Furnival, of Great Mundon, Hertfordshire and Burton
Latimer, Northamptonshire, *1236/40, +1290/1302, m. Isabel _____
<snip>

However, Brice Clagett posted here on 8th Oct 2002
<snip>
Sir Gerard Furnival, was I believe of Munden Furnival, Hertfordshire.
According to Extinct Peerage p. 224 he married Joan, dau. and coheir of Hugh de
Morvill, and was himself son of Gerard Furnival and his wife Christian, dau. and
heir of Guischard Ledet. This last Gerard was younger son of Gerard de Furnival
and Maud de Lovetot, and younger brother of Sir Thomas Furnival, of Sheffield,
ancestor of the Lords Furnival. See CP 5:580.
<snip>

Yet again, John Ravilious wrote on 23rd November 2004, identifying Hugh de
Morville (d.1202) and his wife Hawise, daughter of Robert de Stuteville of
Cottingham, Yorks, and widow of William of Lancaster, with their two daughters Ada
and Joan. JR gave Ada's date of death as "after 1229", and stated her to have
been heiress in her issue of the full Morville inheritance, on failure of the
descendants of her sister Joan.
As to the younger sister Joan JR gives her husband as Richard Gernun, rather
than Gerald Furnival, and traces her Gernun issue.

The following day I replied on list to JR, citing HWBradley
(freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hwbradley/aqwg1411.htm#26738) , who gave Joan as Gerald
Furnival's wife and as the mother of his daughters Lora and Christian Eylesford,
again citing Extinct Peerages. My effort did not attract any reply to date.

Now if Joan did indeed ever marry Gerald Furnival, I wonder what reason
there could be to think that she was the mother of Gerald's children? We know that
he had a daughter Christiana, who married an Eylesford and whose issue
continued. Therefore, if Joan's issue became extinct, she cannot have been
Christiana's mother, can she?
Does this argument explode the statement from Extinct Peerages, cited by Mr
Clagett and Major Bradley? And if Douglas Richardson is right, as he so often
is, in identifying Christina Eylesford's mother as "Isabel", does anybody have
any idea who she was?
MM

Douglas Richardson royala

Re: Descendants of Sir Richard de Lucy and Rohese of Boulogn

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson royala » 02 aug 2005 17:50:12

Dear Michael ~

Thank you for your good post.

You've spotted a common error in the literature regarding the wife of
Gerard de Furnival (died 1290/1302), of Great Mundon, Hertfordshire and
Burton Latimer, Northamptonshire. As you probable know, this couple
has many descendants.

In answer to your question, the correct name of the wife of Gerard de
Furnival is Isabel, as I stated. The source for this information is
the following book:

Herbert Fowler and Joyce Godber, The Cartulary of Bushmead Priory
(Pubs. Bedfordshire Hist. Rec. Soc. 22) (1945): 246-251.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net


Millerfairfield@aol.com wrote:
< A few days ago I posted the following, which does not seem to have
found its
< way onto the list:-
<
< In his very impressive and valuable post Douglas Richardson wrote
< <snip>
< ....D2. Gerard de Furnival, of Great Munden, Hertfordshire, +Holy
Land
< 1240, m. Christian Ledet, widow of Henry de Braybrooke (she +1271,
bur.
< Bushmead Priory)
< .....E1. Gerard de Furnival, of Great Mundon, Hertfordshire and
Burton
< Latimer, Northamptonshire, *1236/40, +1290/1302, m. Isabel _____
< <snip>
<
< However, Brice Clagett posted here on 8th Oct 2002
< <snip>
< Sir Gerard Furnival, was I believe of Munden Furnival, Hertfordshire.

< According to Extinct Peerage p. 224 he married Joan, dau. and coheir
of Hugh < de Morvill, and was himself son of Gerard Furnival and his
wife Christian,
< dau. and heir of Guischard Ledet. This last Gerard was younger son of
Gerard < de Furnival and Maud de Lovetot, and younger brother of Sir
Thomas Furnival, < of Sheffield, ancestor of the Lords Furnival. See CP
5:580.
< <snip>
<
< Yet again, John Ravilious wrote on 23rd November 2004, identifying
Hugh de
< Morville (d.1202) and his wife Hawise, daughter of Robert de
Stuteville of
< Cottingham, Yorks, and widow of William of Lancaster, with their two
< daughters Ada and Joan. JR gave Ada's date of death as "after 1229",
and
< stated her to have been heiress in her issue of the full Morville
<inheritance, on failure of the descendants of her sister Joan. As to
the
< younger sister Joan JR gives her husband as Richard Gernun, rather
than
< Gerald Furnival, and traces her Gernun issue.
<
< The following day I replied on list to JR, citing HWBradley
< (freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hwbradley/aqwg1411.htm#26738), who
gave
< Joan as Gerald Furnival's wife and as the mother of his daughters
Lora and
< Christian Eylesford, again citing Extinct Peerages. My effort did not
attract < any reply to date.
<
< Now if Joan did indeed ever marry Gerald Furnival, I wonder what
reason
< there could be to think that she was the mother of Gerald's children?
We know < that he had a daughter Christiana, who married an Eylesford
and whose issue
< continued. Therefore, if Joan's issue became extinct, she cannot
have been
< Christiana's mother, can she?
< Does this argument explode the statement from Extinct Peerages, cited
by Mr
< Clagett and Major Bradley? And if Douglas Richardson is right, as he
so often
< is, in identifying Christina Eylesford's mother as "Isabel", does
anybody
< have any idea who she was?

< MM

Douglas Richardson royala

Re: Descendants of Sir Richard de Lucy and Rohese of Boulogn

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson royala » 02 aug 2005 18:13:34

Dear Michael ~

Thank you for your good post.

You've spotted a common error in the literature regarding the wife of
Gerard de Furnival (died 1290/1302), of Great Mundon, Hertfordshire and
Burton Latimer, Northamptonshire. As you probable know, this couple
has many descendants.

In answer to your question, the correct name of the wife of Gerard de
Furnival is Isabel, which is indicated by a contemporary charter found
in the following source:

Herbert Fowler and Joyce Godber, The Cartulary of Bushmead Priory
(Pubs. Bedfordshire Hist. Rec. Soc. 22) (1945): 246-251.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net


Millerfairfield@aol.com wrote:
< A few days ago I posted the following, which does not seem to have
found its
< way onto the list:-
<
< In his very impressive and valuable post Douglas Richardson wrote
< <snip>
< ....D2. Gerard de Furnival, of Great Munden, Hertfordshire, +Holy
Land
< 1240, m. Christian Ledet, widow of Henry de Braybrooke (she +1271,
bur.
< Bushmead Priory)
< .....E1. Gerard de Furnival, of Great Mundon, Hertfordshire and
Burton
< Latimer, Northamptonshire, *1236/40, +1290/1302, m. Isabel _____
< <snip>
<
< However, Brice Clagett posted here on 8th Oct 2002
< <snip>
< Sir Gerard Furnival, was I believe of Munden Furnival, Hertfordshire.

< According to Extinct Peerage p. 224 he married Joan, dau. and coheir
of Hugh < de Morvill, and was himself son of Gerard Furnival and his
wife Christian,
< dau. and heir of Guischard Ledet. This last Gerard was younger son of
Gerard < de Furnival and Maud de Lovetot, and younger brother of Sir
Thomas Furnival, < of Sheffield, ancestor of the Lords Furnival. See CP
5:580.
< <snip>
<
< Yet again, John Ravilious wrote on 23rd November 2004, identifying
Hugh de
< Morville (d.1202) and his wife Hawise, daughter of Robert de
Stuteville of
< Cottingham, Yorks, and widow of William of Lancaster, with their two
< daughters Ada and Joan. JR gave Ada's date of death as "after 1229",
and
< stated her to have been heiress in her issue of the full Morville
<inheritance, on failure of the descendants of her sister Joan. As to
the
< younger sister Joan JR gives her husband as Richard Gernun, rather
than
< Gerald Furnival, and traces her Gernun issue.
<
< The following day I replied on list to JR, citing HWBradley
< (freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hwbradley/aqwg1411.htm#26738), who
gave
< Joan as Gerald Furnival's wife and as the mother of his daughters
Lora and
< Christian Eylesford, again citing Extinct Peerages. My effort did not
attract < any reply to date.
<
< Now if Joan did indeed ever marry Gerald Furnival, I wonder what
reason
< there could be to think that she was the mother of Gerald's children?
We know < that he had a daughter Christiana, who married an Eylesford
and whose issue
< continued. Therefore, if Joan's issue became extinct, she cannot
have been
< Christiana's mother, can she?
< Does this argument explode the statement from Extinct Peerages, cited
by Mr
< Clagett and Major Bradley? And if Douglas Richardson is right, as he
so often
< is, in identifying Christina Eylesford's mother as "Isabel", does
anybody
< have any idea who she was?

< MM

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