Rohese, Wife of Sir Richard Lucy, Chief Justiciar of England

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
paul bulkley

Rohese, Wife of Sir Richard Lucy, Chief Justiciar of England

Legg inn av paul bulkley » 01 aug 2005 19:45:01

I refer to Douglas Richardson's findings, specifically
the ancient documents PRO regarding the Newington
property.

What was remarkable was the identity of two witnesses
of the Richard de Luci grant 1148-1151:

(1) Queen of England Mathilda
(2) Earl Eustace son of the King.

It is difficult to imagine that these two individuals
would deign to be witnesses for some unknown Roesia,
and strongly suggests a close family relationship.

Additional supporting evidence connecting Sir Richard
de Lucy and the Boulognes can be found through
understanding the ownership of Sir Richard's property.
I have found three Sir Richard de Lucy charters 1148,
1158, and 1160 which raise some interesting questions.

I will briefly address the Kent property Lessness
Abbey now, and the Essex properties in another
communication. In both instances the Revier/Ripariis
Family was subsequently involved, and held many of the
properties.

LESSNES ABBEY:

The abbey no longer exists. It was located in N.W.
Kent close to Greenwich area.

1076/1082. Charter 308 Acts of William Ist notifies
Archbishop Lanfranc and Bishop Udo of Bayeuz to hold
the Manor and Church of Lessnes.

This document was a 12th Century Forgery! Presumably
this forgery represented a desire of the church to
hold this property. However it seems strange when one
considers the following Charters of Sir Richard de
Lucy 20-30 years earlier to St Trinity London.

1081: Charter 1375 (CDF) William Ist grants manors of
Lewisham, Greenwich, Woolwich etc to Abbey St Peter
Diocese of Ghent.

This might be significant if any of the manors should
have included the church abbey of Lessnes.

1148/1152: Charter St Trinity London records Richard
de Lucy's grant of Abbey (church) of Liesnes (Lessnes)
for the benefit of his soul and the souls of his
parents.
Witnesses: Queent Matilda, William of Ypra, Thomas
Capellano Regine, Ricardo Capellano, Eaustachio
Clerico de Bol, Ricardo de Monte Acuto, Pagano
Elemosinario, Ricardo Clerico de Bol, Clarenhorto
Prior Sancti Saluatoris, Aschetillo Monacho Eius.

Note: 1148 suspected to be the correct date.

It is interesting to observe the large contingent of
notables of Boulogne.

1160: Charter St Trinity London records Richard de
Lucy's gift of the Lessnes property and specifically
Godefridus Beiuin (servant) canon responsible for the
Abbey's operation. (My lousy translation)
And he prays that the gift will be beneficial to
"GAUFRIDUM and son WILLIAM of prefati GODFREY"
(presumably Sir Richard is speaking of his sons and
grandson)

Witnesses: Robert Avenello, Garinno Dersoni Constable
of Tower of London, Oggro Dapifer (servant) William de
Sancto Philiberto, Richard his brother, Eggulfo, Widow
de Brucci, Radulfo Britone, Robert Capellano, Robert
Presbitero, Willelmo Fuianto et Angero.

My memory is vague. Anyhow the church/abbey of Lessnes
existed well before the de Lucy family. I am uncertain
of the stature of the Abbey but believe it was not
very significant, and in later years was considered
with disfavor. One cannot imagine the Queen of England
and her son being present as witnesses unless there
had not been an intimate family interest. - and
presumably that interest in the Lucy Family was
Roesia.

Another hazy memory - I believe Roesia was at one time
Abbess of Lessnes.

Finally one wonders how did Richard de Lucy acquire
the Lessnes property? Quite possibly that knowledge
will provide clues of Roesia?

Sir Richard de Lucy certainly did not appear to be
much of a property tycoon. He must have constantly
accompanied both King Stephen and King Henry II much
of his time. I noted at least 15-20 Charter documents
witnessed by Richard between the period of 1147 and
1178. (31 years of service!)

Godfrey de Lucy Bishop of Winchester 1189-1204. He is
recorded in about 30 documents (charters) Geoffrey de
Lucy, according to Boyd, died 1179.

What is of some interest in the Kent Feet of Fines
1225-1228 were the Lucy Family members listed.
Although Geoffrey was listed, Godfrey his brother, and
his three sisters were omitted. Presumably the Feet of
Fine dispute did not apply to them?

Sincerely Yours,

Paul Bulkley

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Gjest

Re: Rohese, Wife of Sir Richard Lucy, Chief Justiciar of Eng

Legg inn av Gjest » 01 aug 2005 20:58:02

In a message dated 8/1/05 10:43:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
designeconomic@yahoo.com writes:

<< 1148/1152: Charter St Trinity London records Richard
de Lucy's grant of Abbey (church) of Liesnes (Lessnes)
for the benefit of his soul and the souls of his
parents.
Witnesses: Queent Matilda, William of Ypra, Thomas
Capellano Regine, Ricardo Capellano, Eaustachio
Clerico de Bol, Ricardo de Monte Acuto, Pagano
Elemosinario, Ricardo Clerico de Bol, Clarenhorto
Prior Sancti Saluatoris, Aschetillo Monacho Eius.

Note: 1148 suspected to be the correct date. >>

Does this grant imply that both of Richard's parents are dead at this time?
Thanks
Will Johnson

Svar

Gå tilbake til «soc.genealogy.medieval»