Dunbar contradiction - CP right or wrong?

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Leo van de Pas

Dunbar contradiction - CP right or wrong?

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 29 jul 2005 11:15:01

Trying to get the Dunbar Earls correct as well as complete I found problems comparing CP and SP.

First, Volume XIV of CP does not give any alterations for Volume IV pages 506-509
the segment involved.

CP gives
Patrick, Earl of Dunbar, married to Marjory Comyn. He is recorded as aged 47 in 1289 and therefor born about 1242. He died in 1308.
We can extract two sons, Patrick Earl of Dunbar born about 1285, died 1368 and Alexander grandfather of the next Earl.

SP
Patrick, Earl of Dunbar became Earl aged 35 apparently in 1248. This differs with CP who make him Earl in 1289. This Patrick "According to Douglas married a lady named Christian Bruce but no proof was found" his only recorded wife and mother of his sons
was a lady named in a charter by her eldest son 'Cecilia filia Johannis'. No other designation has been found.
As this couple are also the parents of Patrick and Alexander, this must be the couple CP gives as Patrick and Marjory Comyn.

Their sons are :
1. Patrick, who succeeded his father
2.Sir John whose male issue 'must have failed before 1368'.
3.Sir Alexander the name of his wife is nowhere stated
father of
Sir Patrick Dunbar died 1356/7 he married, perhaps as his second wife,
Isabella Randolph. they are parents of
1.George Earl of Dunbar
2.John Earl of Moray
3.Sir Patrick Dunbar
4.Agnes married to Sir James Douglas of Dalkeith.

Who is correct CP or SP.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas

Gjest

Re: Dunbar contradiction - CP right or wrong?

Legg inn av Gjest » 29 jul 2005 21:35:02

In a message dated 7/29/05 2:14:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
leovdpas@netspeed.com.au writes:

<< SP
Patrick, Earl of Dunbar became Earl aged 35 apparently in 1248. This differs
with CP who make him Earl in 1289. This Patrick "According to Douglas married
a lady named Christian Bruce but no proof was found" his only recorded wife
and mother of his sons >>

Leo this Patrick made Earl in 1248 is said to be the father of the other
Patrick made Earl in 1289. The one made Earl in 1248 must be the one said to have
died 24 Aug 1289. The one made Earl in 1289 is the one said to have married
Marjorie Comyn. The next Patrick, son of this last couple said to have been
born abt 1285 and died 1368, said to have married Agnes of Moray.

Will Johnson

Gjest

Re: Dunbar contradiction - CP right or wrong?

Legg inn av Gjest » 30 jul 2005 02:36:01

Dear Leo,
Thank You. It certainly seems as if (at least per SP II and
III) Patrick and Marjory had Patrick and Alexander, who persumedly by a wife
had Patrick who married Isabel / Agnes Randolph, 4th Countess of Moray of
that creation who had sons George, Earl of Dunbar and March and a 2nd son John
Dunbar who was allowed to succeed his mother as 5th Earl of Moray. Of course,
Cecily fitz John loses no descendants in the process.
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA

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