Rohese, wife of Sir Richard Lucy, Chief Justiciar of Engl;an

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paul bulkley

Rohese, wife of Sir Richard Lucy, Chief Justiciar of Engl;an

Legg inn av paul bulkley » 28 jul 2005 19:39:02

Douglas Richardson deserve our congratulations for
revealing the four ancient documents of the PRO which
support the relationship of Rohese of Boulogne and Sir
Richard de Lucy 1148-1151.

It also explains the relationship of the De Revier
family and the de Lucy family (3 May 1221).

October 2003 under the heading "De Lucy Revisited", I
submitted details of a Feet of Fine Kent (Churchill)
dated 1225-1228 in which the pedigree of the Lucy
Family was described at that time. I do not have a
copy of that pedigree in my possession - it can be
studied under #13 Kent Archealogical Cantana.

Anyhow the pedigree of three generations was as
follows:

(1) Richard de Lucy Founder of Lesse Ness Abbey Kent,
and wife Roesia (buried in Frenham Abbey - crypt at
Canterbury Cathedral.

(2) Geoffrey de Lucy - wife not mentioned.

(3) Richard, Herbert, Mathilda, Avelina, Alicia,
Mabilia, and Roesia de Lucy. A notation stated that
Roesia was co heiress of her two brothers. (She
married (1) Nicholas Fitz Alan, and (2) Fulbert de
Dover of Chillham Castle.

The third generation married into the families of the
Bello Campo, De Dover, de Monte Ficheto, Ralph Patric,
and de Revier.

J.Horace Round claimed that Geoffrey de Lucy
(Generation 2) had the following children:

Roese
Maud - who married Richard de Ripariis (Rivers)
Two un named daughters
(Presumably Round's list was of the living, and that
the two sons died early)

Bracton claimed Geoffrey's children to be:

Richard
Herbert
Matillas
Royse

J.Horace Round also advised that Geoffrey de Lucy
(Generation 2) had three sisters:

Maud who married Walter Fitz Robert of Dunmow.
Alice who married Odinel de Umfraville.
Aveline who married Gilbert de Montfichet

All the above information supports the ancient
documents of the PRO as presented by Douglas
Richardson.

Sincerely Yours,

Paul Bulkley




____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Douglas Richardson royala

Re: Rohese, wife of Sir Richard Lucy, Chief Justiciar of Eng

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson royala » 28 jul 2005 19:39:03

Dear Paul ~

Thank you for your good post.

You're basically correct in most points in your discussion below. The
one major exception is that Rohese (or Rose) de Lucy, granddaughter of
Sir Richard de Lucy, married (1st) John de Dover (not Fulbert de Dover)
and (2nd) Nicholas Fitz Alan.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net

paul bulkley wrote:
Douglas Richardson deserve our congratulations for
revealing the four ancient documents of the PRO which
support the relationship of Rohese of Boulogne and Sir
Richard de Lucy 1148-1151.

It also explains the relationship of the De Revier
family and the de Lucy family (3 May 1221).

October 2003 under the heading "De Lucy Revisited", I
submitted details of a Feet of Fine Kent (Churchill)
dated 1225-1228 in which the pedigree of the Lucy
Family was described at that time. I do not have a
copy of that pedigree in my possession - it can be
studied under #13 Kent Archealogical Cantana.

Anyhow the pedigree of three generations was as
follows:

(1) Richard de Lucy Founder of Lesse Ness Abbey Kent,
and wife Roesia (buried in Frenham Abbey - crypt at
Canterbury Cathedral.

(2) Geoffrey de Lucy - wife not mentioned.

(3) Richard, Herbert, Mathilda, Avelina, Alicia,
Mabilia, and Roesia de Lucy. A notation stated that
Roesia was co heiress of her two brothers. (She
married (1) Nicholas Fitz Alan, and (2) Fulbert de
Dover of Chillham Castle.

The third generation married into the families of the
Bello Campo, De Dover, de Monte Ficheto, Ralph Patric,
and de Revier.

J.Horace Round claimed that Geoffrey de Lucy
(Generation 2) had the following children:

Roese
Maud - who married Richard de Ripariis (Rivers)
Two un named daughters
(Presumably Round's list was of the living, and that
the two sons died early)

Bracton claimed Geoffrey's children to be:

Richard
Herbert
Matillas
Royse

J.Horace Round also advised that Geoffrey de Lucy
(Generation 2) had three sisters:

Maud who married Walter Fitz Robert of Dunmow.
Alice who married Odinel de Umfraville.
Aveline who married Gilbert de Montfichet

All the above information supports the ancient
documents of the PRO as presented by Douglas
Richardson.

Sincerely Yours,

Paul Bulkley




____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Gjest

Re: Rohese, wife of Sir Richard Lucy, Chief Justiciar of Eng

Legg inn av Gjest » 28 jul 2005 20:29:01

In a message dated 7/28/05 10:38:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
designeconomic@yahoo.com writes:

<< (1) Richard de Lucy Founder of Lesse Ness Abbey Kent,
and wife Roesia (buried in Frenham Abbey - crypt at
Canterbury Cathedral. >>

Although wikipedia states matter-of-factly that
Richard was buried at Lesnes Abbey

and on this newsgroup it was stated that Rohesia is buried at Holy
Trinity,London

Did I get that wrong? Do we have a conflict here?
Thanks
Will Johnson

Gjest

Re: Rohese, wife of Sir Richard Lucy, Chief Justiciar of Eng

Legg inn av Gjest » 28 jul 2005 20:30:02

In a message dated 7/28/05 10:38:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
designeconomic@yahoo.com writes:

<< (3) Richard, Herbert, Mathilda, Avelina, Alicia,
Mabilia, and Roesia de Lucy. A notation stated that
Roesia was co heiress of her two brothers. (She
married (1) Nicholas Fitz Alan, and (2) Fulbert de
Dover of Chillham Castle. >>

Was not Geoffrey, father of Amaury also a sibling of this Rohese in this
generation?
Is this not the Amaur de Lucy who states that Richard and Rohese were his
great-grandparents?
Thanks
Will Johnson

Gjest

Re: Rohese, wife of Sir Richard Lucy, Chief Justiciar of Eng

Legg inn av Gjest » 28 jul 2005 20:33:02

In a message dated 7/28/05 10:38:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
designeconomic@yahoo.com writes:

<< Maud who married Walter Fitz Robert of Dunmow.
Alice who married Odinel de Umfraville.
Aveline who married Gilbert de Montfichet >>

What is the relationship between Aveline of Montfichet d 1239 wife of
William, Count of Aumale d 29 Mar 1241 and this older Aveline wife of Gilbert de
Montfichet ?
Would perhaps this older Aveline be the mother of the younger Aveline ?
Will Johnson

Douglas Richardson royala

Re: Rohese, wife of Sir Richard Lucy, Chief Justiciar of Eng

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson royala » 28 jul 2005 23:04:47

Dear Leo ~

I believe some investigation into the primary records of this time
period would be quite helpful to you.

Where do you want to start?

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net

"Leo van de Pas" wrote:
Dear Paul,
In all you say I see nothing to substantiate that a Rohese/Rohesia wife of
Richard de Lucy has a Boulogne 'surname'. Perhaps she came _from_ Boulogne?
You make for me acceptable that Sir Richard de Lucy was married to a
Rohese/Rohesia but that does not make her a Rohese de Boulolgne.

And if Faramus de Boulogne is an uncle of Rohese's children that does not
automatically make him a _full_ brother. And what if he is a great-uncle
instead of an uncle? Has that been ruled out?

By all I have seen the jury is still out on any ironclad _Rohese de
Boulogne_

Best wishes
Leo van de Pas

----- Original Message -----
From: "paul bulkley" <designeconomic@yahoo.com
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 3:38 AM
Subject: Rohese, wife of Sir Richard Lucy, Chief Justiciar of Engl;and


Douglas Richardson deserve our congratulations for
revealing the four ancient documents of the PRO which
support the relationship of Rohese of Boulogne and Sir
Richard de Lucy 1148-1151.

It also explains the relationship of the De Revier
family and the de Lucy family (3 May 1221).

October 2003 under the heading "De Lucy Revisited", I
submitted details of a Feet of Fine Kent (Churchill)
dated 1225-1228 in which the pedigree of the Lucy
Family was described at that time. I do not have a
copy of that pedigree in my possession - it can be
studied under #13 Kent Archealogical Cantana.

Anyhow the pedigree of three generations was as
follows:

(1) Richard de Lucy Founder of Lesse Ness Abbey Kent,
and wife Roesia (buried in Frenham Abbey - crypt at
Canterbury Cathedral.

(2) Geoffrey de Lucy - wife not mentioned.

(3) Richard, Herbert, Mathilda, Avelina, Alicia,
Mabilia, and Roesia de Lucy. A notation stated that
Roesia was co heiress of her two brothers. (She
married (1) Nicholas Fitz Alan, and (2) Fulbert de
Dover of Chillham Castle.

The third generation married into the families of the
Bello Campo, De Dover, de Monte Ficheto, Ralph Patric,
and de Revier.

J.Horace Round claimed that Geoffrey de Lucy
(Generation 2) had the following children:

Roese
Maud - who married Richard de Ripariis (Rivers)
Two un named daughters
(Presumably Round's list was of the living, and that
the two sons died early)

Bracton claimed Geoffrey's children to be:

Richard
Herbert
Matillas
Royse

J.Horace Round also advised that Geoffrey de Lucy
(Generation 2) had three sisters:

Maud who married Walter Fitz Robert of Dunmow.
Alice who married Odinel de Umfraville.
Aveline who married Gilbert de Montfichet

All the above information supports the ancient
documents of the PRO as presented by Douglas
Richardson.

Sincerely Yours,

Paul Bulkley




____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs



Leo van de Pas

Re: Rohese, wife of Sir Richard Lucy, Chief Justiciar of Eng

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 28 jul 2005 23:45:02

Dear Paul,
In all you say I see nothing to substantiate that a Rohese/Rohesia wife of
Richard de Lucy has a Boulogne 'surname'. Perhaps she came _from_ Boulogne?
You make for me acceptable that Sir Richard de Lucy was married to a
Rohese/Rohesia but that does not make her a Rohese de Boulolgne.

And if Faramus de Boulogne is an uncle of Rohese's children that does not
automatically make him a _full_ brother. And what if he is a great-uncle
instead of an uncle? Has that been ruled out?

By all I have seen the jury is still out on any ironclad _Rohese de
Boulogne_

Best wishes
Leo van de Pas

----- Original Message -----
From: "paul bulkley" <designeconomic@yahoo.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 3:38 AM
Subject: Rohese, wife of Sir Richard Lucy, Chief Justiciar of Engl;and


Douglas Richardson deserve our congratulations for
revealing the four ancient documents of the PRO which
support the relationship of Rohese of Boulogne and Sir
Richard de Lucy 1148-1151.

It also explains the relationship of the De Revier
family and the de Lucy family (3 May 1221).

October 2003 under the heading "De Lucy Revisited", I
submitted details of a Feet of Fine Kent (Churchill)
dated 1225-1228 in which the pedigree of the Lucy
Family was described at that time. I do not have a
copy of that pedigree in my possession - it can be
studied under #13 Kent Archealogical Cantana.

Anyhow the pedigree of three generations was as
follows:

(1) Richard de Lucy Founder of Lesse Ness Abbey Kent,
and wife Roesia (buried in Frenham Abbey - crypt at
Canterbury Cathedral.

(2) Geoffrey de Lucy - wife not mentioned.

(3) Richard, Herbert, Mathilda, Avelina, Alicia,
Mabilia, and Roesia de Lucy. A notation stated that
Roesia was co heiress of her two brothers. (She
married (1) Nicholas Fitz Alan, and (2) Fulbert de
Dover of Chillham Castle.

The third generation married into the families of the
Bello Campo, De Dover, de Monte Ficheto, Ralph Patric,
and de Revier.

J.Horace Round claimed that Geoffrey de Lucy
(Generation 2) had the following children:

Roese
Maud - who married Richard de Ripariis (Rivers)
Two un named daughters
(Presumably Round's list was of the living, and that
the two sons died early)

Bracton claimed Geoffrey's children to be:

Richard
Herbert
Matillas
Royse

J.Horace Round also advised that Geoffrey de Lucy
(Generation 2) had three sisters:

Maud who married Walter Fitz Robert of Dunmow.
Alice who married Odinel de Umfraville.
Aveline who married Gilbert de Montfichet

All the above information supports the ancient
documents of the PRO as presented by Douglas
Richardson.

Sincerely Yours,

Paul Bulkley




____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs



Leo van de Pas

Re: Rohese, wife of Sir Richard Lucy, Chief Justiciar of Eng

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 29 jul 2005 00:26:01

You might as well direct me to a dictionary. A Latin one perhaps? Again this
is no answer. You quote the Primary Source and I will try to find it. The
collegial thing to do would be to name the Primary Source you claim to know
and quote what it says.

I do not believe that Gen-Med is for sending people on wild goose chases.
The collegial thing to do is _help_

With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
----- Original Message -----
From: <royalancestry@msn.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 8:04 AM
Subject: Re: Rohese, wife of Sir Richard Lucy, Chief Justiciar of Engl;and


Dear Leo ~

I believe some investigation into the primary records of this time
period would be quite helpful to you.

Where do you want to start?

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net

"Leo van de Pas" wrote:
Dear Paul,
In all you say I see nothing to substantiate that a Rohese/Rohesia wife
of
Richard de Lucy has a Boulogne 'surname'. Perhaps she came _from_
Boulogne?
You make for me acceptable that Sir Richard de Lucy was married to a
Rohese/Rohesia but that does not make her a Rohese de Boulolgne.

And if Faramus de Boulogne is an uncle of Rohese's children that does not
automatically make him a _full_ brother. And what if he is a great-uncle
instead of an uncle? Has that been ruled out?

By all I have seen the jury is still out on any ironclad _Rohese de
Boulogne_

Best wishes
Leo van de Pas

----- Original Message -----
From: "paul bulkley" <designeconomic@yahoo.com
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 3:38 AM
Subject: Rohese, wife of Sir Richard Lucy, Chief Justiciar of Engl;and


Douglas Richardson deserve our congratulations for
revealing the four ancient documents of the PRO which
support the relationship of Rohese of Boulogne and Sir
Richard de Lucy 1148-1151.

It also explains the relationship of the De Revier
family and the de Lucy family (3 May 1221).

October 2003 under the heading "De Lucy Revisited", I
submitted details of a Feet of Fine Kent (Churchill)
dated 1225-1228 in which the pedigree of the Lucy
Family was described at that time. I do not have a
copy of that pedigree in my possession - it can be
studied under #13 Kent Archealogical Cantana.

Anyhow the pedigree of three generations was as
follows:

(1) Richard de Lucy Founder of Lesse Ness Abbey Kent,
and wife Roesia (buried in Frenham Abbey - crypt at
Canterbury Cathedral.

(2) Geoffrey de Lucy - wife not mentioned.

(3) Richard, Herbert, Mathilda, Avelina, Alicia,
Mabilia, and Roesia de Lucy. A notation stated that
Roesia was co heiress of her two brothers. (She
married (1) Nicholas Fitz Alan, and (2) Fulbert de
Dover of Chillham Castle.

The third generation married into the families of the
Bello Campo, De Dover, de Monte Ficheto, Ralph Patric,
and de Revier.

J.Horace Round claimed that Geoffrey de Lucy
(Generation 2) had the following children:

Roese
Maud - who married Richard de Ripariis (Rivers)
Two un named daughters
(Presumably Round's list was of the living, and that
the two sons died early)

Bracton claimed Geoffrey's children to be:

Richard
Herbert
Matillas
Royse

J.Horace Round also advised that Geoffrey de Lucy
(Generation 2) had three sisters:

Maud who married Walter Fitz Robert of Dunmow.
Alice who married Odinel de Umfraville.
Aveline who married Gilbert de Montfichet

All the above information supports the ancient
documents of the PRO as presented by Douglas
Richardson.

Sincerely Yours,

Paul Bulkley




____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs




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