Weirdness -- New England births appearing in an English reco

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
John Brandon

Weirdness -- New England births appearing in an English reco

Legg inn av John Brandon » 26 jul 2005 22:40:17

A search of the whole batch number C003669 from the IGI, which purports
to be extracts from the parish register of Riseley, Bedfordshire,
England, reveals births that seem to be for New England. For instance,
we find ...

--Hana Riddan, daughter of Thadeus Riddan and Elizabeth, born 12 June
1660
--Jonathan Riddan, son of Thades Riddan and Elizabeth, born 3 Dec. 1664

This bears at least a passing resemblance to the account of the New
Englander Thadeus Redding or Riddan in James Savage's _Genealogical
Dictionary_:

[REDDING/ RIDDAN] THADDEUS, Lynn, by w. Elizabeth had Hannah and Sarah,
tw. b. 12 Aug. 1660, of wh. Hannah d. in 3 mos.; Hannah, again, 11 Nov.
1662, John, 3 Feb. 1665; and Abigail, 4 June 1671; was of Marblehead
1674. THOMAS, Saco 1652, freem. 1653. See Folsom, 183. This name,
Farmer says, is found still in N. H. [[vol. 3, p. 521]]

Also, the following entries in the register ...

--Fitts William Seargeant, son of William Seargeant and Mary, born 6
Jan. 1678
--Mary Sergeant, daughter of William Sergeant and Mary, born 29 Oct.
1681

seem to refer to a New England family (from Savage):

[SARGENT], WILLIAM, Gloucester, call. sec. to disting. him from the
other, was b. in Bristol, Eng. m. 21 June 1678, Mary, d. of Peter
Duncan, had Fitz William, b. 6 Jan. 1680; and Mary, 19 Dec. 1681;
Andrew, 1683; Daniel, 1686; Jordan, 1688; Epes, 1690, the ancest. of
most of the disting. men of this name; Ann, 1692; Samuel, 1694, d.
young; Fitz John, 1696, d. soon; one, with an [[vol. 4, p. 20]] out
of the way name, 1699, d. the same yr.; Jabez, 1700, d. the same yr.;
Fitz William, 1701; and Winthrop, 1704.

Does anybody know what has happened here??

Todd A. Farmerie

Re: Weirdness -- New England births appearing in an English

Legg inn av Todd A. Farmerie » 27 jul 2005 00:46:46

WJhonson@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 7/26/05 2:45:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
starbuck95@hotmail.com writes:

--Hana Riddan, daughter of Thadeus Riddan and Elizabeth, born 12 June
1660
--Jonathan Riddan, son of Thades Riddan and Elizabeth, born 3 Dec. 1664

This bears at least a passing resemblance to the account of the New
Englander Thadeus Redding or Riddan in James Savage's _Genealogical
Dictionary_:

[REDDING/ RIDDAN] THADDEUS, Lynn, by w. Elizabeth had Hannah and Sarah,
tw. b. 12 Aug. 1660, of wh. Hannah d. in 3 mos.; Hannah, again, 11 Nov.
1662, John, 3 Feb. 1665; and Abigail, 4 June 1671; was of Marblehead
1674.

But I'm not understanding something.
Thaddeus was of Marblehead in 1674. Doesn't that imply that prior to that
date, his location cannot be ascertained ? So couldn't he have been still in
England?


The IGI also has an entry for Jonathan, 3 Dec. 1664, Lynn Mass, son of
Thad & Liz, derived from the Salem town records. If this is authentic
and contemporary, then something is definitely amiss, but I have seen
cases where the birth of an adult resident was entered.

Likewise, the Lynn VR have the following entries (from NEHGS site):

RIDDAN Hana, d. twin, Thadeus and Eliza, 12 : 6 m: 1660. CT. R.
RIDDAN Sara, d. twin, Thadeus and Eliza, 12 : 6 m : 1660. CT. R.
RIDDAN Hanna, d. Thaddeus and Elize,-: 9 m : 1662. CT. R.
RIDDAN Jon, s. Thaddeus and Eliz[a], 3 : 12 m : 1664.
RIDDAN Abigaile, d. Thaddeus, June 4, 1671. CT. R.

CT.R. refers to "court record, Essex Co. Quarterly Court", which
suggests a single court action which listed all of the children and
their birthdates, and hence is not an indication of their place of birth
- they may well have been born over the water (Jonathan's is not so
annotated, but this may be an omission). Also, the first four are in
the same format, the last different - could this reflect a move of some
sort (immigration) in the 1664/1671 gap? Another thing to note is that
the months in most of the records are not given, just numbered. With
the different start of the new year, the resulting confusion could
account for the 2 month difference between the Bedfordshire records and
the Savage account. On the other hand, it is kind of odd that only one
of the 1660 twins appears in Beds. Perhaps Sara died prior to baptism.

I suspect that what we have here are the English origins of the Lynn
immigrant, although more groundwork must be done to confirm this.
Someone should look at the court record to confirm what it says, and
also the original Salem entry.


taf

Gjest

Re: Weirdness -- New England births appearing in an English

Legg inn av Gjest » 27 jul 2005 01:01:02

In a message dated 7/26/05 2:45:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
starbuck95@hotmail.com writes:

<< --Hana Riddan, daughter of Thadeus Riddan and Elizabeth, born 12 June
1660
--Jonathan Riddan, son of Thades Riddan and Elizabeth, born 3 Dec. 1664

This bears at least a passing resemblance to the account of the New
Englander Thadeus Redding or Riddan in James Savage's _Genealogical
Dictionary_:

[REDDING/ RIDDAN] THADDEUS, Lynn, by w. Elizabeth had Hannah and Sarah,
tw. b. 12 Aug. 1660, of wh. Hannah d. in 3 mos.; Hannah, again, 11 Nov.
1662, John, 3 Feb. 1665; and Abigail, 4 June 1671; was of Marblehead
1674. >>

But I'm not understanding something.
Thaddeus was of Marblehead in 1674. Doesn't that imply that prior to that
date, his location cannot be ascertained ? So couldn't he have been still in
England?

Thanks
Will Johnson

John Brandon

Re: Weirdness -- New England births appearing in an English

Legg inn av John Brandon » 27 jul 2005 01:40:38

In my haste, I forgot to mention that **most** of the births (?
baptisms) in that batch from Riseley correspond to births of children
of the same name, generally at Salem (but there are some Lynn and
Gloucester births, as well)--take a few of them through Savage, and
you'll see the correspondence. I _think_ it's a list of New England
births that somehow made its way to England and was included with the
Riseley records. The maiden names of some of the wives are given, and
these generally agree with what Savage says.

Nathaniel Taylor

Re: Weirdness -- New England births appearing in an English

Legg inn av Nathaniel Taylor » 27 jul 2005 02:40:41

In article <1122414017.501458.238870@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"John Brandon" <starbuck95@hotmail.com> wrote:

A search of the whole batch number C003669 from the IGI, which purports
to be extracts from the parish register of Riseley, Bedfordshire,
England, reveals births that seem to be for New England. For instance,
we find ...

--Hana Riddan, daughter of Thadeus Riddan and Elizabeth, born 12 June
1660
--Jonathan Riddan, son of Thades Riddan and Elizabeth, born 3 Dec. 1664

This bears at least a passing resemblance to the account of the New
Englander Thadeus Redding or Riddan in James Savage's _Genealogical
Dictionary_:

[REDDING/ RIDDAN] THADDEUS, Lynn, by w. Elizabeth had Hannah and Sarah,
tw. b. 12 Aug. 1660, of wh. Hannah d. in 3 mos.; Hannah, again, 11 Nov.
1662, John, 3 Feb. 1665; and Abigail, 4 June 1671; was of Marblehead
1674. THOMAS, Saco 1652, freem. 1653. See Folsom, 183. This name,
Farmer says, is found still in N. H. [[vol. 3, p. 521]]

Also, the following entries in the register ...

--Fitts William Seargeant, son of William Seargeant and Mary, born 6
Jan. 1678
--Mary Sergeant, daughter of William Sergeant and Mary, born 29 Oct.
1681

seem to refer to a New England family (from Savage):

[SARGENT], WILLIAM, Gloucester, call. sec. to disting. him from the
other, was b. in Bristol, Eng. m. 21 June 1678, Mary, d. of Peter
Duncan, had Fitz William, b. 6 Jan. 1680; and Mary, 19 Dec. 1681;
Andrew, 1683; Daniel, 1686; Jordan, 1688; Epes, 1690, the ancest. of
most of the disting. men of this name; Ann, 1692; Samuel, 1694, d.
young; Fitz John, 1696, d. soon; one, with an [[vol. 4, p. 20]] out
of the way name, 1699, d. the same yr.; Jabez, 1700, d. the same yr.;
Fitz William, 1701; and Winthrop, 1704.

Does anybody know what has happened here??


There looks like a high-level database mistake in the IGI. The batch
you show does not represent Risely, Bedfordshire, even though almost all
records from this batch show on the IGI index as of Riseley, Bedford.
[In the first 50, one is as taking place at Tottenham High Cross,
London.]

But from each record, the "Source Call No." shown is 0877447, which
resolves to:

Salem (Massachusetts). Town Clerk.
Records of birth, death, and marriage, 1644-1870;
indexes to births, deaths, and marriages, 1658-1880;

If you go to Hugh Wallis' amazing hack site for IGI batches for English
parishes, at

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/

you will find that Risely, Bedfordshire, has been extracted, but the
christenings are batch P003661.

Nat Taylor

a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/

John Brandon

Re: Weirdness -- New England births appearing in an English

Legg inn av John Brandon » 27 jul 2005 14:05:46

Oooh, Nat, you go, boy! Never let anyone tell you you're a talentless
hack when it comes to genealogy ...

gryphon801@aol.com

Re: Weirdness -- New England births appearing in an English

Legg inn av gryphon801@aol.com » 27 jul 2005 23:50:49

An examination of the register of the parish of Riseley, co. Bedford at
the FHL today reveals that there are NO entries for any person bearing
this name, whether baptisms, marriages or burials.

John Brandon

Re: Weirdness -- New England births appearing in an English

Legg inn av John Brandon » 28 jul 2005 13:54:40

Hopefully you will tell someone about this mistake so that the database
can be fixed.

Svar

Gå tilbake til «soc.genealogy.medieval»