Heraldry on the Wynnesbury tomb including Wrottesley, Swinne

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Patti Metsch

Heraldry on the Wynnesbury tomb including Wrottesley, Swinne

Legg inn av Patti Metsch » 22 jul 2005 22:57:02

A pen and ink rendering of the tomb of William Wynnesbury and his wife in Penkridge Church, Staffordshire, may be found at http://www.staffspasttrack.org.uk , (search on "Wynnesbury").



In the description, the date for Wynnesbury is incorrectly given as 1520 rather than 1502. The drawing is attributed to T.P. Wood and was probably done in the 1840s. It shows three coats-of-arms on the tomb. These same three arms (with some variance) are also depicted in a Littleton pedigree composed in 1624 held by the SRO. (I will happily provide an image of same to any interested party.)



My hope is these arms will provide some clue as to the identity of William Wynnesbury's wife, whose name - Katherine - is also found on the tomb.



The coats-of-arms:



1) Above Wynnesbury's effigy are obviously the Wynnesbury arms: "Argent on a bend engrailed gules three lions passant guardant or" (Burke's General Armory). The sketch, however, makes them appear more like hounds (talbots) than lions.



2) In the center is Wrottesley (or perhaps just as easily Basset?) impailing another coat-of-arms. The drawing incorrectly tinctures the Wrottesley/Basset arms as gules and or rather than sable and or, as they are depicted in the pedigree and described by Burke.



The pen and ink drawing shows the coat on the sinister side of this shield as: argent a bucks head cabossed or between the horns a buglehorn sable. The manuscript pedigree shows it as: gules a bucks head cabossed or between the horns a buglehorn of the second. Yet, in the achievement of Sir Edward Littleton show on an earlier page of the volume, these arms are rendered as: argent a bucks head cabossed gules between the horns a buglehorn sable.



These arms have not been positively identified, but they seem to be quite similar to those Burke's General Armory describes as the Snokeshull arms: "argent a bucks head cabossed sable between the horns a buglehorn of the second, stringed and tied to the horns or." I have been unable to find much information on the Snokeshull's other than they appear to have been a Surrey family.



This bucks head (in sable) and buglehorn tied and stringed to the horns appears as the crest for Sir Edward Littleton of Pillaton Hall, and I believe had been earlier adopted as a crest by his ancestor Richard Littleton of Pillaton Hall.



3) The third shield consists of two coats. On the dexter side: argent a cross flory sable - the arms of Swinnerton. The drawing adds to this what appears to be (it is a little difficult to make out) a quarter of gules a fess argent a mullet sable. The Littleton pedigree, however, varies considerably by showing the Swinnerton arms with a canton gules a wolfs head erased or.



On the sinister side of this shield are the arms of Beke: "Gules a cross ermine" (Burke's General Armory)



I know of one Swinnerton-Beke union, that of Sir Robert Swynnerton and Elizabeth Beke, daughter of Sir Nicholas de Beke. Does anyone out there know of a connection to Wynnesbury?



Any additional insight into the possible relationships between the above named families will be greatly appreciated.





Patti Metsch

Pensacola, FL

Gjest

Re: Heraldry on the Wynnesbury tomb including Wrottesley, Sw

Legg inn av Gjest » 23 jul 2005 03:01:21

Will check on this tomorrow.

Doug Smith

Gjest

Re: Heraldry on the Wynnesbury tomb including Wrottesley, Sw

Legg inn av Gjest » 23 jul 2005 21:07:21

Some useful references:

VCH Shropshire, 10: 9-22.
VCH Staffs, 5: 119.
BP, 1934, Hatherton.

It is not clear to me when the tomb was built, so the shields could
relate to ancestors of William Wynnesbury or his descendants (if they
built it).

Arms Appear to be:

Wynnesbury
Basset/Littleton
Swynnerton/Beke

gules and or is correct for a number of branches of the Basset family.


Wm. de Wynnesbury m. Katherine
Alice m. Richard Littleton of Pillaton
Edward Littleton m. Helen Swynnerton (dau. Humphrey)

It appears that there are a number of relationships between these
families.

Hope this is helpful.

Doug Smith

Patti Metsch

Re: Heraldry on the Wynnesbury tomb including Wrottesley, Sw

Legg inn av Patti Metsch » 24 jul 2005 12:46:01

Doug Smith <alden@mindspring.com> wrote:

Some useful references:
VCH Shropshire, 10: 9-22.
VCH Staffs, 5: 119.
BP, 1934, Hatherton.

Unfortunately, I do not have access to VCH other than the volumes at the
wonderful site "British History Online" (http://www.british-history.ac.uk) which
does not include those you list. Can you give me a full citation for "BP,
1934, Hatherton"?

It is not clear to me when the tomb was built, so the shields could
relate to ancestors of William Wynnesbury or his descendants (if they
built it).

Arms Appear to be:
Wynnesbury
Basset/Littleton
Swynnerton/Beke


You are incorrect about the second coat. The Littleton arms are Argent a
chevron between three escallops sable. An illustration of the tomb of
Richard Littleton and his wife Alice Wynnesbury may also be found at
http://www.staffspasttrack.org.uk. While looking somewhat incomplete, his arms are
depicted above his head and includes quarterings of Wescote (Argent a bend
cotised sable a border engrailed gules besantee), presumably Littleton which
is blank in the illustration, Quatremayne and Breton all impailing Burley
(his mother was Joan Burley, daughter of William).

Westcote is sometime place first in the achievement of this family as it was
originally Westcote in the male line, the name Littleton being assumed by
Richard's father, the well known judge, Thomas Westcote alias Littleton, son
of Thomas Heuster alias Westcote and Elizabeth Littleton.

The Wrottsley/Basset-Bucks head shield also appears on this tomb, as does
the Wynnesbury arms.

gules and or is correct for a number of branches of the Basset family.


This may be true, but given the fact this same coat-of-arms is portrayed as
sable and or in the Littleton pedigree leaves some doubt as to the correct
rendering.

Sir Edward Littleton, 1st Baron Hatherton, believed these arms to be
Wrottesley and that Alice Wynnesbury's mother, Katherine, was a Wrottesley.
I am looking for evidence to support (or refute) this statement.

Patti Metsch
Pensacola, FL

Gjest

Re: Heraldry on the Wynnesbury tomb including Wrottesley, Sw

Legg inn av Gjest » 24 jul 2005 13:45:46

Hi Patti

the BP was for Burke's Peerage 1934 under Hatherton. The VCH I
referenced are online at the excellent site you mentioned - that is
where I got them.

I would like to see the Littleton Pedigree from the SRO.

The earliest signed bookplate was for Sir Edward Littleton and is
online at http://karaart.com/prints/ex-libris/1e.html.

Basset of Drayton and Wrottesley of Wrottesley are very similar except
for the tinctures. Unfortunately it is difficult to determine which
artist took more liberties or guess what shape the pigments on the tomb
shields were in when the artist did the drawing in the 1800's. Some
tombs have been incorrectly repainted.

Have not seen anything to positively identify Katharine.

Will send more if I see anything.

Doug Smith

Gjest

Re: Heraldry on the Wynnesbury tomb including Wrottesley, Sw

Legg inn av Gjest » 24 jul 2005 20:02:53

Hi Patti

Snokeshull appears to be Snoxhill in the village of Cranleigh, Surrey.
See David Snoxhill's web page at
http://users.tinyonline.co.uk/david.sno ... LYTREE.htm.

Doug

Gjest

Re: Heraldry on the Wynnesbury tomb including Wrottesley, Sw

Legg inn av Gjest » 24 jul 2005 21:17:33

Thanks Patti

Had a little time to look this weekend which is rare. This family is
not one I have been able to spend much time on. Will let you know if I
bump into anything.

You are right. More excellent posts like the one Brad just did would
add to the percentage of posts worth reading.

Doug

Patti Metsch

Re: Heraldry on the Wynnesbury tomb including Wrottesley, Sw

Legg inn av Patti Metsch » 24 jul 2005 21:55:02

Yes, Doug, thanks, I've seen it. I am quite adept at internet surfing, too!
I am sure the answers to my questions - if they exist - lie in some source
not readily available or else I would have found it already! My reason to
post to this list is the hope that someone who has greater access to more
obscure or scarce sources (which given some of the members' posts appears
likely) might have run across something germane to my questions in the
course of their own research. I do, however, appreciate your interest and
posts. If only more of the list member would try to help others lacking
especially those of us lacking experience and resources, rather than using
this forum as a medium to criticize, demean, belittle and express their
plain old meanness!

Patti

----- Original Message -----
From: <alden@mindspring.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: Heraldry on the Wynnesbury tomb including Wrottesley,
Swinnerton & Beke


Hi Patti

Snokeshull appears to be Snoxhill in the village of Cranleigh, Surrey.
See David Snoxhill's web page at

http://users.tinyonline.co.uk/david.sno ... LYTREE.htm.

Doug

Patti Metsch

Re: Heraldry on the Wynnesbury tomb including Wrottesley, Sw

Legg inn av Patti Metsch » 25 jul 2005 01:33:01

Dear Doug:

Are you a Littleton descendent? I don't actually have copies of the
Littleton part of the 1624 pedigree held by the SRO at present, just the
Wynnesbury section which has an illustration of the arms on the tomb as
previously stated. I have a representative searching the SRO and William
Salt Library in Staffordshire for a later volume prepared in the 1840s for
Lord Hatherton which might possibly (at least I have my fingers crossed)
have additional information on Wynnesbury.

As for the book plate, I can identify most of the coats-of-arms. You may be
interested in the article "The Quarterings of Littleton" Herald &
Genealogist 1:5 (1863).

Patti

----- Original Message -----
From: <alden@mindspring.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: Heraldry on the Wynnesbury tomb including Wrottesley,
Swinnerton & Beke


Hi Patti

the BP was for Burke's Peerage 1934 under Hatherton. The VCH I
referenced are online at the excellent site you mentioned - that is
where I got them.

I would like to see the Littleton Pedigree from the SRO.

The earliest signed bookplate was for Sir Edward Littleton and is
online at http://karaart.com/prints/ex-libris/1e.html.

Basset of Drayton and Wrottesley of Wrottesley are very similar except
for the tinctures. Unfortunately it is difficult to determine which
artist took more liberties or guess what shape the pigments on the tomb
shields were in when the artist did the drawing in the 1800's. Some
tombs have been incorrectly repainted.

Have not seen anything to positively identify Katharine.

Will send more if I see anything.

Doug Smith

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