Jane Lawrence Giddings of Massachusetts descent from Rohese

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
Gjest

Jane Lawrence Giddings of Massachusetts descent from Rohese

Legg inn av Gjest » 22 jul 2005 20:00:57

This is the line from Rohese de Boulogne wife of Richard de Lucy to
Jane Lawrence wife of George Giddings of Massachusetts. Thank's to Doug
for pointing this line out.
1. Rohese de Boulogne m. Richard de Lucy
2.Maud de Lucy m. Walter FitzRobert
3.Alice FitzWalter m.Gilbert Pecche
4.Hamon Pecche m. Eve
5.Gilbert Pecche m. Joan de Creye
6.Gilbert Pecche m. Iseult
7.Gilbert Pecche m.Joan
8.Katherine Pecche m. Thomas Notbeam
9.Margaret Notbeam m. John Hinkley
10.Cecily Hinkley m. Henry Caldebeck
11.Thomasine Caldebeck m.Thomas Underhill
12.Anne Underhill m. Thomas Knighton
13.Joan Knighton m. Charles Bull
14.Richard Bull m. Alice Hunt
15.Elizabeth Bull m. John Lawrence
16.Thomas Lawrence m. Joan Antrobus
17.Jane Lawrence m. George Giddings.
To see more information on the Lawrence family of Massachusetts see
article in The Genealogist vol 10 no 1 spring of 1989. Article written
by David L Greene

Gjest

Re: Jane Lawrence Giddings of Massachusetts descent from Roh

Legg inn av Gjest » 23 jul 2005 05:38:02

Dear Douglas, Mike and Others,
Here`s a related line going to
Judith (Everard) Appleton of Massachusetts, see RD 600 pp 566-567
1 Rohese de Boulogne married Richard de Lucy
2 Maud de Lucy married Walter Fitzrobert
3 Alice Fitzwalter married Gilbert Pecche
4 Hamon Pecche married Eve NN
5 Gilbert Pecche married Joan de Creye
6 Gilbert Pecche, 1st Lord Pecche married Iseult NN
7 Simon Pecche married Agnes Holme
8 Margaret Pecche married John Hunt
9 Iodena Hunt married Thomas Cornish
10 John Cornish married NN
11 John Cornish married Agnes Walden
12 Mary Cornish married Thomas Everard
13 Henry Everard married NN
14 Thomas Everard married Margaret, daughter of Sir John Wiseman
15 John Everard married Judith, daughter of John Bourne
16 Judith Everard married Samuel, son of Thomas and Mary (Isaac)
Appleton

Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA

Gjest

Re: Jane Lawrence Giddings of Massachusetts descent from Roh

Legg inn av Gjest » 23 jul 2005 17:42:13

James are you a related to the Appleton family. I have a Mercy Appleton
i'm trying to find she married a Arthur Abbot of Ipswich Massachusetts.
If there is anyone who know's of this marriage would be glad to hear
from them.

Mike Welch

Gjest

Re: Jane Lawrence Giddings of Massachusetts descent from Roh

Legg inn av Gjest » 23 jul 2005 22:36:02

Have not tried Early Settlers of Rowley as yet. Will probably have to
go to Los Angeles for they have those down at the main library. Thank
you for your help.

Mike Welch

Douglas Richardson royala

Re: Judith (Everard) Appleton descent from Rohese de Boulog

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson royala » 23 jul 2005 23:22:20

Dear James ~

The Boulogne-Lucy-Appleton line looks great. Thanks for taking the
time to post it. Much appreciated.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net

Jwc1870@aol.com wrote:
Dear Douglas, Mike and Others,
Here`s a related line going to
Judith (Everard) Appleton of Massachusetts, see RD 600 pp 566-567
1 Rohese de Boulogne married Richard de Lucy
2 Maud de Lucy married Walter Fitzrobert
3 Alice Fitzwalter married Gilbert Pecche
4 Hamon Pecche married Eve NN
5 Gilbert Pecche married Joan de Creye
6 Gilbert Pecche, 1st Lord Pecche married Iseult NN
7 Simon Pecche married Agnes Holme
8 Margaret Pecche married John Hunt
9 Iodena Hunt married Thomas Cornish
10 John Cornish married NN
11 John Cornish married Agnes Walden
12 Mary Cornish married Thomas Everard
13 Henry Everard married NN
14 Thomas Everard married Margaret, daughter of Sir John Wiseman
15 John Everard married Judith, daughter of John Bourne
16 Judith Everard married Samuel, son of Thomas and Mary (Isaac)
Appleton

Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA

Gjest

Re: Jane Lawrence Giddings of Massachusetts descent from Roh

Legg inn av Gjest » 23 jul 2005 23:29:01

Dear Mike,
Yes. My line is through Judith Everard`s daughter Sarah
who married Reverend Samuel Philips, the line then goes through Mighill,
Boynton, Blood, Proctor, Knowlton, Stevens, and Condon to Cummings. I found reference
on a rootsweb website of Arthur Abbott born 1693, Ipswich son of Philip and
Mary ( ) Abbott according to Sheri LeQuia, the website owner who
cites the Essex Antiquarian as her source, Arthur married Mercy Appleton on 16
September 1716 and had previously been married to one Smith. She died in 1733
and He married Priscilla ( Appleton) Burnham between May 13-23 1734. She was
a daughter of Isaac and Priscilla (Baker) Appleton, though apparently not the
parents of his 1st wife Mercy (Appleton) Smith as well.
No trace of her in the A Genealogy of the Appleton Family by William S
Appleton in the Ancestry.com Family and local History database either. Have You
tried the Early Settlers of Rowley, Massachusetts ? They have a lot of the
Appleton Family`s early generations as I recall.
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA

Gjest

Re: Jane Lawrence Giddings of Massachusetts descent from Roh

Legg inn av Gjest » 24 jul 2005 01:28:12

I wouldn't run off to the races just yet. The Ipswich VRs are online
at http://www.nehgs.org. They show that Arthur Abbot married widow Priscilla
Burnham on 23 May 1734. However, they also show that Mrs. Priscilla
Appleton married Thomas Burnham on 13 October 1718. So it appears that
your lady was at least Priscilla (??) (Appleton) (Burnham) Abbot. When
was the last birth of her last Abbot child? That would help set a
timeline for her. That Thomas Burnham is likely the one who died on 4
April 1730 at age 35 y. 2 mo.

The Essex Antiquarian did Essex County families for the surnames
beginning A and to BR. Certainly Appleton and Abbot are covered but
Burnham is not. For Burnham I would suggest:

Mary Walton Ferris, "Dawes-Gates Ancestral Lines" vol. 1 (1943) and
vol. 2 (1931) and
"The Hammatt Papers: early inhabitants of Ipswich, Massachusetts
1633-1700" by Abraham Hammatt (1880-1899; reprint, Baltimore,
Genealogical Publishing Co., 1980).

I would also suggest primary research in deeds and probate since she
appears to be a much married lady that may have been confused in print
before.

I'm sorry to contradict Mr. Cummings, but I think he gave poor research
advice. I'm not sure why one would look for an Ipswich answer in a
secondary source on Rowley.

Nathaniel Taylor

Re: Jane Lawrence Giddings of Massachusetts descent from Roh

Legg inn av Nathaniel Taylor » 24 jul 2005 01:52:22

In article <1122164892.268241.10680@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
mhollick@mac.com wrote:

I wouldn't run off to the races just yet. The Ipswich VRs are online
at http://www.nehgs.org. They show that Arthur Abbot married widow Priscilla
Burnham on 23 May 1734. However, they also show that Mrs. Priscilla
Appleton married Thomas Burnham on 13 October 1718. So it appears that
your lady was at least Priscilla (??) (Appleton) (Burnham) Abbot. When
was the last birth of her last Abbot child? That would help set a
timeline for her. That Thomas Burnham is likely the one who died on 4
April 1730 at age 35 y. 2 mo.

The Essex Antiquarian did Essex County families for the surnames
beginning A and to BR. Certainly Appleton and Abbot are covered but
Burnham is not. For Burnham I would suggest:

Mary Walton Ferris, "Dawes-Gates Ancestral Lines" vol. 1 (1943) and
vol. 2 (1931) and
"The Hammatt Papers: early inhabitants of Ipswich, Massachusetts
1633-1700" by Abraham Hammatt (1880-1899; reprint, Baltimore,
Genealogical Publishing Co., 1980).

I would also suggest primary research in deeds and probate since she
appears to be a much married lady that may have been confused in print
before.

For what it's worth, there's also a sizable compiled genealogy of this
Ipswich Burnham family published back in 1869 (Roderick H. Burnham, _The
Burnham Family_ [Hartford: Lockwood, 1869]). I do not have it handy to
say whether it offers any information on this Priscilla, but I *have*
found private-source 18th-c material in it (related to other specific
people) which now seems available nowhere else.

Nat Taylor

a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/

Austin W. Spencer

Re: Jane Lawrence Giddings of Massachusetts descent from Roh

Legg inn av Austin W. Spencer » 24 jul 2005 09:50:17

On 23 Jul 2005 17:28:12 -0700, mhollick@mac.com wrote:

I wouldn't run off to the races just yet. The Ipswich VRs are online
at http://www.nehgs.org. They show that Arthur Abbot married widow Priscilla
Burnham on 23 May 1734. However, they also show that Mrs. Priscilla
Appleton married Thomas Burnham on 13 October 1718. So it appears that
your lady was at least Priscilla (??) (Appleton) (Burnham) Abbot. When
was the last birth of her last Abbot child? That would help set a
timeline for her. That Thomas Burnham is likely the one who died on 4
April 1730 at age 35 y. 2 mo.

There is also a printed version of the vital records, which might well be less
reliable than the database but can at least be cited with consistent precision.
(This is one of my main reasons for preferring print to electronic publication
for works of enduring significance.)

_Vital Records of Ipswich, Massachusetts, to the End of the Year 1849_, 3 vols.
(Salem, Mass.: Essex Institute, 1910-8):
Burnam, Tho[mas], and Mrs. Priscilla Appleton, int. 13: 10 m: 1718. (2:73)
Abbot, Arthur, and wid. Priscilla Burnum, May 23, 1734.* [* Intention also
recorded.] (2:15)
Abbot, Daniel, s. Arthur and Priscilla, bp. Mar. 9, 1734. [Only child of this
couple recorded in Ipswich. The year 1734/5 must be intended, if the child was
legitimate.] (1:11)

Note that the first record was an intention, not a marriage. Massachusetts
colonial law authorized the parties to proceed with the marriage only after
their intentions were read before three successive meetings of the church, a
process that could take the better part of a month. The Ipswich records do not
appear to state that they were married on "13 October 1718"; the date itself
reflects an anachronous supposition that Massachusetts colonists numbered months
the same way we do. They considered December the tenth month, not October.

There is one other anachronism in Martin's argument, and this involves his
interpretation of the title "Mrs." In 1718 "Mrs." was a sign of respect more
than a statement of marital condition, and the Appleton family was a highly
respectable one. If, as Martin suggests below, we should turn to the primary
records, there is no reason not to look to Isaac Appleton, even if only as one
possibility among several.

The Essex Antiquarian did Essex County families for the surnames
beginning A and to BR. Certainly Appleton and Abbot are covered but
Burnham is not. For Burnham I would suggest:

Mary Walton Ferris, "Dawes-Gates Ancestral Lines" vol. 1 (1943) and
vol. 2 (1931)

Ferris's treatment of the Burnham family runs for two generations in America.
The latest Thomas she mentions lived ca. 1642×6-1728. Although his death date
roughly coincides with Priscilla's husband's, he was never married to a
Priscilla himself. For purposes of addressing this question, we may safely
ignore Ferris.

and
"The Hammatt Papers: early inhabitants of Ipswich, Massachusetts
1633-1700" by Abraham Hammatt (1880-1899; reprint, Baltimore,
Genealogical Publishing Co., 1980).

Hammatt supports James's interpretation, sub Appleton: "Isaac 3 son of Samuel 2,
died May 22, 1747, in the 83d year of his age. (See epitaph 13.) He left an only
son Isaac 4, and six daughters: Priscilla Abbot, Mary Osgood, Elisabeth
Fairfield, Martha White, and Rebecca who married January 19, 1728-9, William
Dodge, then of Wenham, afterwards of Ipswich, and Joanna." (21) Hammatt includes
no substantial treatment of Arthur Abbot. (9) Under Burnham, he mentions boys
named Thomas born in the town but does not marry any of them off to any
Priscilla. (40-3)

I would also suggest primary research in deeds and probate since she
appears to be a much married lady that may have been confused in print
before.

I'm sorry to contradict Mr. Cummings, but I think he gave poor research
advice. I'm not sure why one would look for an Ipswich answer in a
secondary source on Rowley.

The towns were close together, for what it's worth. And certain surnames
appeared in each. But why undertake a radial search *before* exhausting the
local records?

Austin W. Spencer

Gjest

Re: Jane Lawrence Giddings of Massachusetts descent from Roh

Legg inn av Gjest » 24 jul 2005 16:20:08

Wonderful posting. I've never personally seen the honorific Mrs. used
for an unmarried young woman before. It would be interesting to see if
that is true. Certainly checking John Appleton's will may be the key.
Do you have other examples of the use of Mrs. for unmarried women? I
was also under the impression that numerical dating i.e. 13 10 mo. was
used for Quakers and the 1 mo. was April. Interesting as all this is,
we are well off point and into colonial things and perhaps should cease
and desist.

John Brandon

Re: Jane Lawrence Giddings of Massachusetts descent from Roh

Legg inn av John Brandon » 24 jul 2005 16:52:45

I've never personally seen the honorific Mrs. used for an unmarried young woman before. It would be interesting to see if that is true.

This is a very well-known form of address. See, for instance, _Records
and Files of the Quarterly Court of Essex County, Massachusetts_, 9
vols. (Salem: Essex Institute, 1911-1975), 5:380-82:

"John Cogswell's petition, dated July 21, 1674, that the
persons concerned, Mr. and Mrs. Gifford of Lynn and Mistress Margaret
Gifford, might appear before the court for a hearing. Mrs. Margarett
Giffard affirmed that John Cogswell made a solemn promise to marry her
daughter while Mr. Gifford was in England."

Mistress Margaret Gifford was the daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Gifford of
Lynn. Notice, however, that the mother was also called "Mrs. Margaret
Gifford."

Nathaniel Taylor

Re: Jane Lawrence Giddings of Massachusetts...

Legg inn av Nathaniel Taylor » 24 jul 2005 16:57:56

In article <1122218408.679364.277460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
mhollick@mac.com wrote:

Wonderful posting. I've never personally seen the honorific Mrs. used
for an unmarried young woman before. It would be interesting to see if
that is true. Certainly checking John Appleton's will may be the key.
Do you have other examples of the use of Mrs. for unmarried women? I
was also under the impression that numerical dating i.e. 13 10 mo. was
used for Quakers and the 1 mo. was April. Interesting as all this is,
we are well off point and into colonial things and perhaps should cease
and desist.

I have made no systematic study, but I have recently seen 'Mrs.' used
for apparently unmarried women in 18th-century New England marriage
records, and in the cases I have in mind (Bristol, Rhode Island), used
for prominent, wealthy young women.

The use of a number abbreviation for months is common in 17th- and early
18th-century New England records (not just Quaker ones) and some English
parish records. Since the new year began on 25 March, March was both
the first and last month of the year. I suspect (but I am not sure)
that one sees the number abbreviation written more often for September,
October, November and December, where the name is essentially the
numeral as well, than for the other months. (Those months were named
for their position in the oldest Roman civil calendar, which also began
the year in March).

Nat Taylor

a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/

Tim Powys-Lybbe

Re: Jane Lawrence Giddings of Massachusetts descent from Roh

Legg inn av Tim Powys-Lybbe » 24 jul 2005 17:10:28

In message of 24 Jul, mhollick@mac.com wrote:

Wonderful posting. I've never personally seen the honorific Mrs. used
for an unmarried young woman before. It would be interesting to see if
that is true. Certainly checking John Appleton's will may be the key.
Do you have other examples of the use of Mrs. for unmarried women?

I have here a latter dated 1693 which was sent to a mature spinster
of 56 who was addressed as "Madam", both on the outside for the
direction and on the inside for the greeting.

And I remember my mother lecturing me once that lady cooks were "Mrs"
regardless of whether they were married or not.

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org
             For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

Nathaniel Taylor

Re: Jane Lawrence Giddings of Massachusetts...

Legg inn av Nathaniel Taylor » 24 jul 2005 17:34:58

In article <616b8f8f4d.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk>,
Tim Powys-Lybbe <tim@powys.org> wrote:

In message of 24 Jul, mhollick@mac.com wrote:

Wonderful posting. I've never personally seen the honorific Mrs. used
for an unmarried young woman before.

I have here a latter dated 1693 which was sent to a mature spinster
of 56 who was addressed as "Madam", both on the outside for the
direction and on the inside for the greeting.

And I remember my mother lecturing me once that lady cooks were "Mrs"
regardless of whether they were married or not.

'Madam' is a distinct courtesy in direct address, but Tim's second point
underscores that traditionally, 'Mistress' (abbreviated Mrs.) was a mark
of relative social distinction rather than simply marital status (which
it has perhaps only recently become). But some other traditional labels
were marriage-specific: surely a woman could not be referred to as
'Goody' (='Goodwife') without being married.

Nat Taylor

a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/

Gjest

Re: Jane Lawrence Giddings of Massachusetts descent from Roh

Legg inn av Gjest » 24 jul 2005 17:38:13

Yes, but read my posting. Mrs. for an unmarried woman v. a married
woman. In your example the unmarried woman was addressed as Mistress
not Mrs.

John Brandon

Re: Jane Lawrence Giddings of Massachusetts descent from Roh

Legg inn av John Brandon » 24 jul 2005 18:02:15

Huh? "Mrs." at this period was an abbreviation for the word
"Mistress." "Mistress" and "Mrs." were interchangeable.

Gjest

Re: Jane Lawrence Giddings of Massachusetts descent from Roh

Legg inn av Gjest » 24 jul 2005 20:04:41

Thank You to all you for the helpful hints. I know this is out of the
time frame. But your help was appericiated.

Mike

John Brandon

Re: Jane Lawrence Giddings of Massachusetts descent from Roh

Legg inn av John Brandon » 24 jul 2005 20:19:48

Here's another example from my own ancestry, from the published
Newbury, Mass., vital records: "Jedediah Fitch of Norwich, resident in
Newbury, m. Mrs. Abigel Coffin, of Nantucket, now resident in Newbury,
13 Sep 1701." This was Abigail's first and only marriage.

Austin W. Spencer

Re: Jane Lawrence Giddings of Massachusetts descent from Roh

Legg inn av Austin W. Spencer » 24 jul 2005 22:42:15

On 24 Jul 2005 08:20:08 -0700, mhollick@mac.com wrote:

Wonderful posting. I've never personally seen the honorific Mrs. used
for an unmarried young woman before. It would be interesting to see if
that is true. Certainly checking John Appleton's will may be the key.
Do you have other examples of the use of Mrs. for unmarried women? I
was also under the impression that numerical dating i.e. 13 10 mo. was
used for Quakers and the 1 mo. was April. Interesting as all this is,
we are well off point and into colonial things and perhaps should cease
and desist.

I have seen the title used most often in Essex County, and generally at around
the time of Priscilla's first marriage. The most clear-cut example from my own
ancestry comes at a still later date, from Leominster, Worcester County,
Massachusetts. The microfilmed manuscript of the town records gives the
following:

mr Oliver Hale and mrs Catharine Boutle Intend Marriage borth of Leominster Feb.
ye. 11. ad. 1758. Jona Wilson Clerk (Leominster Town and Vital Records, 1:76
[vital records paged separately from town records], FHL microfilm 867,862)

The only Boutell family in Leominster at the time consisted of the widow,
children, and grandchildren of James Boutell, who had built one of the first two
dwellings in the town. Among the children were a daughter Catharine, born in
1732, and several sons. Since neither the father nor any of the sons was ever
married to a Catharine, the 1758 intention could only have referenced the
daughter Catharine. Clarence Almon Torrey, in his "Heald-Hale Genealogy: John
Heald of Concord, Massachusetts, and Some of His Descendants (Six Generations)"
(typescript, Boston, 1940; copies at NEHGS and the Library of Congress), 52,
interpreted the record the same way, although he didn't set out his reasoning in
quite so much detail.

Austin W. Spencer

John Brandon

Re: Jane Lawrence Giddings of Massachusetts descent from Roh

Legg inn av John Brandon » 25 jul 2005 15:43:43

Joseph B. Felt's _History of Ipswich, Essex, and Hamilton [Mass.]_
(1834) has a list of marriages of prominent persons in which most of
the young women are given the title of "Mrs." See under "Marriages"
(about halfway down the list, between "Love Affairs" and
"Publishments") --

http://john-slaughter.rootsweb.com/IpswichHistory/

Svar

Gå tilbake til «soc.genealogy.medieval»