Henry V -- First English King Truly Proficient In English

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D. Spencer Hines

Henry V -- First English King Truly Proficient In English

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 09 jul 2005 20:27:59

Henry V [reigned 1413-1422] was the first English King to be really
proficient in English and to make a practice of conducting much of his
official state business in English.

Henry V was the first English King who could read, write and speak with
ease in English.

One of England's Greatest Kings -- and justifiably so, on many counts.

Deus Vult.

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Gjest

Re: Henry V -- First English King Truly Proficient In Englis

Legg inn av Gjest » 10 jul 2005 03:11:01

Hello there. I would be interested to know how you reached this conclusion
using contemporary sources. Thanks. Jerry.

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Henry V -- First English King Truly Proficient In Englis

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 11 jul 2005 05:11:56

Henry V [reigned 1413-1422] was the first English King to be really
proficient in English and to make a practice of conducting much of his
official state business in English.

Henry V was the first English King who could read, write and speak with
ease in English.

One of England's Greatest Kings -- and justifiably so, on many counts.

Real Brit....

Deus Vult.

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Peter Stewart

Re: Henry V -- First English King Truly Proficient In Englis

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 11 jul 2005 06:07:36

"D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1UmAe.662$4H2.3728@eagle.america.net...
THIS is what Brits and Americans should be thinking and doing today --
rather than throwing bricks and rotten tomatoes at their Prime Minister
and President.

We have enough enemies as it is -- we don't need to be fighting each
other -- internally.

DSH
----------------------

"Earl of Westmoreland: "Oh that we now had here But one ten thousand of
those men in England That do no work today!"

And would this be the earl of Westmoreland [sic] in Pennsylvania, or an
error for the earl of Westmorland in England?

Peter Stewart

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Henry V -- First English King Truly Proficient In Englis

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 11 jul 2005 06:44:26

THIS is what Brits and Americans should be thinking and doing today --
rather than throwing bricks and rotten tomatoes at their Prime Minister
and President.

We have enough enemies as it is -- we don't need to be fighting each
other -- internally.

DSH
----------------------

"Earl of Westmoreland: "Oh that we now had here But one ten thousand of
those men in England That do no work today!"

King: "What's he that wishes so? My cousin Westmoreland? No, my fair
cousin. If we are marked to die, we are enow To do our country loss;
and if to live, The fewer men, the greater share of honor. God's will!
I pray thee wish not one man more."

"By Jove, I am not covetous for gold, Nor care I who doth feed upon my
cost; It earns me not if men my garments wear; Such outward things dwell
not in my desires. But if it be a sin to covet honor, I am the most
offending soul alive."

"No, faith my coz, wish not a man from England. God's peace! I would
not lose so great an honor. As one man more methinks would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more! Rather proclaim it,
Westmoreland, through my host, That he which hath no stomach to this
fight, Let him depart; his passport shall be made, And crowns for convoy
put into his purse; We would not die in that man's company That fears
his fellowship to die with us."

"This day is called the Feast of Crispian: He that outlives this day,
and comes safe home, Will stand a tiptoe when this day is named, And
rouse him at the name of Crispian. He that shall see this day, and live
old age, Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbors And say 'Tomorrow
is Saint Crispian.'"

"Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars, And say, 'These
wounds I had on Crispin's day.' Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember, with advantages, What feats he did that day. Then
shall our names, Familiar in his mouth as household words --- Harry the
King, Bedford and Exeter, Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and
Gloucester --- Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red. This story
shall the good man teach his son; and Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go
by, From this day to the ending of the world, But we in it shall be
remembered." ---

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he today that sheds his
blood with me Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, This day shall
gentle his condition. And gentlemen in England, now a-bed, Shall think
themselves accursed they were not here; And hold their manhoods cheap
whiles any speaks That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day."

William Shakespeare [1564-1616] _Henry V_, Act IV, Scene 3, Lines 16-67.
-----------------------------

"Non nobis, Domine, non nobis, sed Nomini Tuo da gloriam, propter
misericordiam Tuam et veritatem Tuam." Henry V, [1387-1422] King of
England --- Ordered it to be sung by his prelates and chaplains ---
after the Battle of Agincourt, 25 Oct 1415, --- while every able-bodied
man in his victorious army knelt, on the ground. [Psalm CXV, Verse I]

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor

"Much have I travelled in the realms of gold, And many goodly states and
kingdoms seen; Round many western islands have I been, Which bards in
fealty to Apollo hold." -- John Keats [1795-1821] -- Poems [1817] -- "On
First Looking Into Chapman's Homer"

John Townsend

Re: Henry V -- First English King Truly Proficient In Englis

Legg inn av John Townsend » 11 jul 2005 07:42:49

Peter Stewart wrote (snip)
"Earl of Westmoreland: "Oh that we now had here But one ten thousand of
those men in England That do no work today!"

And would this be the earl of Westmoreland [sic] in Pennsylvania, or an
error for the earl of Westmorland in England?


"Westmoreland" is not an error, as it is the spelling used in Shakespeare's
play, according to the Howard Staunton edition (which I always use because I
am researching into the life of Staunton, better known as the chess player
who gave his name to the Staunton pattern of chessmen).

"I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,
Straining upon the start. The game's afoot;
Follow your spirit: and upon this charge,
Cry - God for Harry! England and saint George!"

Best wishes,

John Townsend
Howard Staunton research project:
http://www.johntownsend.demon.co.uk/page7.html

Peter Stewart

Re: Henry V -- First English King Truly Proficient In Englis

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 11 jul 2005 08:06:20

"John Townsend" <john@johntownsend.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dat4hu$lff$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
Peter Stewart wrote (snip)
"Earl of Westmoreland: "Oh that we now had here But one ten thousand of
those men in England That do no work today!"

And would this be the earl of Westmoreland [sic] in Pennsylvania, or an
error for the earl of Westmorland in England?


"Westmoreland" is not an error, as it is the spelling used in
Shakespeare's
play, according to the Howard Staunton edition (which I always use because
I
am researching into the life of Staunton, better known as the chess player
who gave his name to the Staunton pattern of chessmen).

Hines wasn't using the spelling from an edition of Shakespeare, where the
characters are not given with full titles every time they speak, but his
own.

The spelling in the earliest edition, contemporary with Shakespeare, is
actually "Westmerland".

You are on a hiding to nothing if you will try to defend Hines.

Peter Stewart

Peter Stewart

Re: Henry V -- First English King Truly Proficient In Englis

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 11 jul 2005 08:59:13

Hines is not writing in the time of Shakespeare, but today. As I posted
before, the spelling actually used in the quarto edition was "Westmerland",
from the pronunciation then as now that cannot be sensibly rendered
"WestMOREland".

The spelling used by Hines on his own initiative (and that would not be
correct even if he found it as an editor's error in an American publication)
belongs to a place in Pennsylvania but not to an English earldom, medieval
or modern.

The only "Bingo!" here is the definite but superfluous proof that Hines
can't or won't see the simplest error when it is pointed out to him.

He seems to be aiming for a new record today in the number of his mistakes
and in the arrant stupidity of his oafish attempts at criticism and lies.

Peter Stewart


"D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:UrpAe.666$4H2.3847@eagle.america.net...
Bingo!

It is the spelling used in MANY editions of Henry V.

Of course there was no standardized spelling of English in Shakespeare's
day. That didn't come about until the 19th Century.

Peter just stuck his foot in his mouth again -- a common occurrence
these days -- and accelerating.

Shoe leather has become Peter Stewart's favorite meal.

There is NOTHING FUNNIER than a Rampant Pogue like Stewart, who -- in
attempting to correct someone ELSE -- falls flat on his arse.

KAWHOMP!!!

Are you writing a biography of Howard Staunton?

DSH

"John Townsend" <john@johntownsend.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dat4hu$lff$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...

| Peter Stewart wrote (snip)

| >> "Earl of Westmoreland: "Oh that we now had here But one ten
| >> thousand of those men in England That do no work today!"
|
| >And would this be the earl of Westmoreland [sic] in Pennsylvania, or
an
| >error for the earl of Westmorland in England?
|
|
| "Westmoreland" is not an error, as it is the spelling used in
Shakespeare's
| play, according to the Howard Staunton edition (which I always use
because I
| am researching into the life of Staunton, better known as the chess
player
| who gave his name to the Staunton pattern of chessmen).
|
| "I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,
| Straining upon the start. The game's afoot;
| Follow your spirit: and upon this charge,
| Cry - God for Harry! England and saint George!"
|
| Best wishes,
|
| John Townsend
| Howard Staunton research project:
| http://www.johntownsend.demon.co.uk/page7.html

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Henry V -- First English King Truly Proficient In Englis

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 11 jul 2005 09:23:24

Bingo!

It is the spelling used in MANY editions of Henry V.

Of course there was no standardized spelling of English in Shakespeare's
day. That didn't come about until the 19th Century.

Peter just stuck his foot in his mouth again -- a common occurrence
these days -- and accelerating.

Shoe leather has become Peter Stewart's favorite meal.

There is NOTHING FUNNIER than a Rampant Pogue like Stewart, who -- in
attempting to correct someone ELSE -- falls flat on his arse.

KAWHOMP!!!

Are you writing a biography of Howard Staunton?

DSH

"John Townsend" <john@johntownsend.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dat4hu$lff$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...

| Peter Stewart wrote (snip)

| >> "Earl of Westmoreland: "Oh that we now had here But one ten
| >> thousand of those men in England That do no work today!"
| >
| >And would this be the earl of Westmoreland [sic] in Pennsylvania, or
an
| >error for the earl of Westmorland in England?
|
|
| "Westmoreland" is not an error, as it is the spelling used in
Shakespeare's
| play, according to the Howard Staunton edition (which I always use
because I
| am researching into the life of Staunton, better known as the chess
player
| who gave his name to the Staunton pattern of chessmen).
|
| "I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,
| Straining upon the start. The game's afoot;
| Follow your spirit: and upon this charge,
| Cry - God for Harry! England and saint George!"
|
| Best wishes,
|
| John Townsend
| Howard Staunton research project:
| http://www.johntownsend.demon.co.uk/page7.html

Gjest

Re: Henry V -- First English King Truly Proficient In Englis

Legg inn av Gjest » 11 jul 2005 16:41:56

Henry V [reigned 1413-1422] was the first English King to be really
proficient in English


Presumably, you mean the first "English" king since the Norman conquest.

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Henry V -- First English King Truly Proficient In Englis

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 11 jul 2005 18:29:07

Yes, good point of clarification.

DSH

<nickxylas@wmconnect.com> wrote in message
news:1121096516.115020.291410@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

| >Henry V [reigned 1413-1422] was the first English King to be really
| proficient in English
|
| Presumably, you mean the first "English" king since the Norman
| conquest.

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Henry V -- First English King Truly Proficient In Englis

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 11 jul 2005 18:34:32

Henry V [reigned 1413-1422] was the first King of England, after the
Norman Conquest, to be really proficient in English and to make a
practice of conducting much of his official state business in English.

Henry V was the first King of England, after the Norman Conquest, who
could read, write and speak with ease in English.

Henry V -- one of England's Greatest Kings -- and justifiably so, on
many counts.

Real Brit....

Deus Vult.

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Gjest

Re: Henry V -- First English King Truly Proficient In Englis

Legg inn av Gjest » 12 jul 2005 01:50:02

Dear Spencer,
I find it interesting that the first English King to
be proficient in the then emerging modern English language was only slightly
ahead of the first Scots King proficient in English. James I was captured by
the English Navy in 1406 while on his way to be schooled at the court of King
Charles VI of France . It`s claimed that Robert III, King of Scots died on
reciept of a message from King Henry IV of England saying that '" I can teach your
son french as well as the King of France. Robert III soon died, his brother
Robert, Duke of Albany became regent in James ` name and James learned French
and English at the courts of Henry IV and Henry V, only being released in
1424 and allowed to return to Scotland with his bride, the King`s cousin Joan
Beaufort, daughter of John, Marquess of Dorset.
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Henry V -- First Post-Conquest King Of Engand Truly Prof

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 12 jul 2005 05:29:14

Dear James.

VERY Interesting...

Thanks for posting this.

DSH

<Jwc1870@aol.com> wrote in message news:80.2b688cda.30045f6e@aol.com...

| Dear Spencer,
| I find it interesting that the first English
King to
| be proficient in the then emerging modern English language was only
slightly
| ahead of the first Scots King proficient in English. James I was
captured by
| the English Navy in 1406 while on his way to be schooled at the court
of King
| Charles VI of France . It`s claimed that Robert III, King of Scots
died on
| reciept of a message from King Henry IV of England saying that '" I
can teach your
| son french as well as the King of France. Robert III soon died, his
brother
| Robert, Duke of Albany became regent in James ` name and James
learned French
| and English at the courts of Henry IV and Henry V, only being released
in
| 1424 and allowed to return to Scotland with his bride, the King`s
cousin Joan
| Beaufort, daughter of John, Marquess of Dorset.
| Sincerely,
| James W Cummings
| Dixmont, Maine USA

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