Bold and Savage families

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Bold and Savage families

Legg inn av Gjest » 27 mai 2005 00:31:01

_RootsWeb: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Re: Bold-Savage_
(http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GE ... 1117034600)

The funeral monument of John Savage [d. 1495] at St. Michael's Church,
Macclesfield, only portrays him and his wife Katherine. That coupled with not
finding any reference in the extant records to another wife seems to support her
being his only wife. I have seen unsubstantiated listings of her death as
occurring in 1498.

Regarding the "esquire-knight issue" of the various John Savages:

1. John Savage [d. 1450] was styled knight many times.
2. John Savage [d. 1463] only appears as esquire.
3. John Savage [d. 1495] was first styled knight in 1477 and in 1494 as
"Unus militum pro Corpore Henrici Septimi."
4. John Savage [d. 1492], also a knight within the lifetime of his father,
led the Lancastrian left wing at the battle of Bosworth (1485). With the
Stanley clan he was also present at the battle of Stoke (1487), after which
battle both his brother Humphrey Savage and Henry Bold were knighted for their
services.

I mention the last part mostly as an indicator of the interaction of the
Bold and Savage families. As stated in a previous post, Henry Bold's father had
much interaction with the Stanley clan as well [which I think helps support
a probable connection].

Regarding the early Eltonhead family history I only have what appears in the
VCH Lancaster volumes and Rankin's article in the Transactions of the
Historic Society of Lancashire and Cheshire. Sorry I am of no assistance there.

Cristopher Nash

Re: Bold and Savage families

Legg inn av Cristopher Nash » 27 mai 2005 20:51:01

Once again, this is very helpful.

The funeral monument of John Savage [d. 1495] at St. Michael's Church,
Macclesfield, only portrays him and his wife Katherine. That
coupled with not
finding any reference in the extant records to another wife seems to
support her
being his only wife. I have seen unsubstantiated listings of her death as
occurring in 1498.

Ok - this probably gives about as much documentary reassurance as
it's reasonable to expect!

Regarding the "esquire-knight issue" of the various John Savages:

1. John Savage [d. 1450] was styled knight many times.
2. John Savage [d. 1463] only appears as esquire.
3. John Savage [d. 1495] was first styled knight in 1477 and in 1494 as
"Unus militum pro Corpore Henrici Septimi."
4. John Savage [d. 1492], also a knight within the lifetime of his father,
led the Lancastrian left wing at the battle of Bosworth (1485). With the
Stanley clan he was also present at the battle of Stoke (1487), after which
battle both his brother Humphrey Savage and Henry Bold were knighted
for their
services.

Here's valuable info.

I mention the last part mostly as an indicator of the interaction of the
Bold and Savage families. As stated in a previous post, Henry
Bold's father had
much interaction with the Stanley clan as well [which I think helps support
a probable connection].

I understand - though I guess to be fair the connection of 4, too,
with the Stanley clan tends to cloud as much as clear the picture.
Can we take it that a familiarity with _distinctions_ between John
Savages d. 1492 and 1495 yields you confidence that the former (whose
father you evidently have) stands no equal chance of being the fa. of
Dulcie? E.g. I imagine it's not provided by the fact that John
Savage (d. 1495 and called 'the younger') is likely to have fathered
an Elizabeth?

As you can see, I'm a bit perplexed about --
>Dulcia Savage [daughter of John Savage, Knt.], whose 1464 marriage
covenant espoused her with Henry Bold

-- as reported in your posting of the 25th -- since the John Savage
(d. 1495) whom you've identified as good candidate for her father
isn't styled knight till 1477. Or am I missing something? i.e. is it
not in the covenant of 1464 that she's called >daughter of John
Savage, Knt.< ?

Sorry to seem a stickler here - I do think that your sorting out the
generations and highlighting this later one is a great help!

Regarding the early Eltonhead family history I only have what appears in the
VCH Lancaster volumes and Rankin's article in the Transactions of the
Historic Society of Lancashire and Cheshire. Sorry I am of no
assistance there.

No, this _is_ a help. You wouldn't happen to have the volume/year of
the latter by any chance? For my sins I think I've missed it and
would shoot for the Bodleian as soon as poss.

Many thanks, again.

Cris

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