Mother of Sviatopolk II

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Roger LeBlanc

Mother of Sviatopolk II

Legg inn av Roger LeBlanc » 16 mai 2005 21:11:01

Following the discussion here about the first wife of Sviatopolk II
(belatedly, as usual) I have a few questions that I hope someone may be
inclined to answer. Am I correct to surmise that the proof negates
Gertrude as mother of Sviatopolk, while Iziaslav has no other known
wife? Is he assumed to have been married to Gertrude at the time of
Sviatopolk's birth, and would the acknowledged son Yaropolk have been
older or younger than his half-brother?

Roger LeBlanc

Andrew S. Kalinkin

Re: Mother of Sviatopolk II

Legg inn av Andrew S. Kalinkin » 17 mai 2005 09:30:37

Roger LeBlanc wrote:
Following the discussion here about the first wife of Sviatopolk II
(belatedly, as usual) I have a few questions that I hope someone may
be
inclined to answer. Am I correct to surmise that the proof negates
Gertrude as mother of Sviatopolk, while Iziaslav has no other known
wife? Is he assumed to have been married to Gertrude at the time of
Sviatopolk's birth, and would the acknowledged son Yaropolk have been

older or younger than his half-brother?

Yes, Gertrude was aparently Iziaslav's only wife. Several chronicles
report a marriage between Iziaslav and (unnamed) sister of Cazimier of
Poland under the year 1043. Although the date may be not precise (as
chronicles state they married "at that time" rather than "that year"),
the actual date is unlikely to be much later than that and cannot be
pushed to after 1050 (birthdate of Sviatopolk).

And the relative seniority of Sviatopolk vs Yaropolk is an object of
longstanding controversy. However now most russian historians think
that Sviatopolk was older. It can be guessed from chronology
(Sviatopolk first appears in 1069, Yaropolk in 1071) and, more
conclusively, from the history of land holdings - Sviatopolk twice
replaced Iziaslav's eldest son Mstislav, in 1069 in Polotsk and
(indirectly) in 1078 in Novgorod.

Andrew

Pmik

Re: Mother of Sviatopolk II

Legg inn av Pmik » 17 mai 2005 21:24:47

Hello
I agree with Andrew
Is somebody has informations about the wife of Sviatopolk II
Thanks for help

Patrick


"Andrew S. Kalinkin" <kalinkin_andrei@mail.ru> a écrit dans le message de
news: 1116318637.161314.237770@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Roger LeBlanc wrote:
Following the discussion here about the first wife of Sviatopolk II
(belatedly, as usual) I have a few questions that I hope someone may
be
inclined to answer. Am I correct to surmise that the proof negates
Gertrude as mother of Sviatopolk, while Iziaslav has no other known
wife? Is he assumed to have been married to Gertrude at the time of
Sviatopolk's birth, and would the acknowledged son Yaropolk have been

older or younger than his half-brother?

Yes, Gertrude was aparently Iziaslav's only wife. Several chronicles
report a marriage between Iziaslav and (unnamed) sister of Cazimier of
Poland under the year 1043. Although the date may be not precise (as
chronicles state they married "at that time" rather than "that year"),
the actual date is unlikely to be much later than that and cannot be
pushed to after 1050 (birthdate of Sviatopolk).

And the relative seniority of Sviatopolk vs Yaropolk is an object of
longstanding controversy. However now most russian historians think
that Sviatopolk was older. It can be guessed from chronology
(Sviatopolk first appears in 1069, Yaropolk in 1071) and, more
conclusively, from the history of land holdings - Sviatopolk twice
replaced Iziaslav's eldest son Mstislav, in 1069 in Polotsk and
(indirectly) in 1078 in Novgorod.

Andrew

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