Identification of Juliana, wife of Robert de Chaucombe

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Identification of Juliana, wife of Robert de Chaucombe

Legg inn av Gjest » 14 mai 2005 05:16:01

Friday, 13 May, 2005


Hello All,

In prior threads, it was suggested that Juliana, wife of Robert de
Chaucombe (and ancestress of the Lords Segrave and many more besides) was
possibly of the Dammartin family, or of the de Welles [1].

Rosie noted that Strubby, co. Lincs. was identified as the maritagium
of Juliana [2]. I have noted that this information, and the final concord
of 10 April 1239, is to be found on the A2A website [3]. Interestingly,
the introduction prior to this text provides the following information:

' The holding was granted by William de Cornhill to Robert de
Chaucombe in free marriage with William's daughter Juliana. It was
then settled on her daughter Milicent Basset, but passed to the
Segraves, and Juliana de Chaucombe quitclaimed her rights to
Nicholas de Segrave. By 1325 it had been alienated, as a note
in the Segrave Cartulary confirms. [BL Harl. MS4748,f.22, See
BCM/D/6 Administrative history] ' [4]

A cursory review of A2A and my notes provides no further illumination
re: this William de Cornhill, or the prior tenure of Strubby. Should
anyone have any further information or documentation, that should lead us
to further insights concerning this portion of the de Segrave/de
Chaucombe ancestry.

Cheers,

John *


NOTES

[1] John P. Ravilious, <Possible Identification of Juliana, wife of
Robert de Chaucombe>, SGM, 13 May 2004. Also, Gordon Kirkemo,
Rosie Bevan et al., <Possible Identification of Juliana, wife of
Robert de Chaucombe>, SGM, 4 Oct 2004 et seq.

[2] Rosie Bevan, <Possible Identification of Juliana, wife of Robert de
Chaucombe>, SGM, 6 Oct 2004.

[3] A2A, Berkeley Castle Muniments, courtesy A2A, Berkeley Castle
Muniments: Berkeley Castle Muniments [BCM/D], BCM/D/6/3/1 :

' Juliana late wife of Robert de Chaucumbe; and Ralph Basset and
Milicent his wife. Two weeks from Easter, 23 Hen. III
Final concord concerning land in Stroby and Chaucumbe; Juliana has
claimed 1½ carucates of land in Stroby as being her right and marriage
portion and Ralph and Milicent have acknowledged her right, in return
for which Gilbert de Segrave and Amabel his wife have granted to Ralph
and Milicent 100s. worth of land and rents in Chaucumbe, viz. 4
virgates and 10s. worth of rent from the mill. After Juliana's death
the land in Stroby will revert to Ralph and Milicent and the 100s.
worth in Chaucumbe will revert to Gilbert and Amabel.
At: St. Bride's, London. '

[4] Ibid., introduction re: Strubby, co. Lincs.


* John P. Ravilious

Rosie Bevan

Re: Identification of Juliana, wife of Robert de Chaucombe

Legg inn av Rosie Bevan » 17 mai 2005 02:17:40

Dear John

Thanks for posting this interesting find.

There are a few points of connection between the Chaucombes and
Cornhills. Robert de Chacombe was recorded as holding a third of
Strubby by 1210/12 as an escheat owing to felony. Strubby, Lincoln, as
held by Adam de Welles in 1311 was identified as being held in chief
for the service of castle guard at Dover, Kent. Reginald de Cornhill
was king's justiciar and also sheriff of Kent (the caput of the
shrievalty being at Dover castle) from 1192-98 and for the latter part
of king John's reign. Hugh de Chaucombe, Robert's father, served as a
king's justiciar in the 1190s, so this would most likely be the key to
the marriage between the families. Reginald's father, Gervase, had been
sheriff of Kent in 1170-74, and his brother, Henry, in 1189-92, so it
is undoubtedly through this family that William de Cornhill obtained
Strubby and is likely to be the same William de Cornhill who in 1205/06
gave his property in Maidstone, Kent, worth 83 pounds annually to
Stephen Langton, archbishop of Canterbury, and his successors [Hasted,
2nd ed. v.4 p.286]. He may be the same as William de Cornhill, bishop
of Lichfield (d.1223), but while he seems an unlikely candidate for
Juliana's father, it was not unknown for higher clergy to have children
at this time.

Round in Geoffrey de Mandeville, p.310 gives a provisional pedigree for
the Cornhill family (a name derived from Cornhill in London). William
de Cornhill is not placed, though there is evidence that the name
William occurred within the family.

1. Ingenolda=Roger "nepos Huberti" the queen's chamberlain, joint
sheriff 1125
2.Gervase (nephew to Ralph fitz Herlwin) joint sheriff of London
1155-56= Agnes de Cornhill dau. Edward de Cornhill [RB - and Godeliva
[DD 411]]
3.Henry de Cornhill, sheriff of Kent, London and Surrey=Alice
de Courcy
4. Joan de Cornhill=Hugh de Nevill, Forester of England
3.Reginald de Cornhill, sheriff of Kent
4.Reginald de Cornhill, junior
3.Ralph de Cornhill d. c.1200=[RB Alice Hastings afterwards
wife of Godfrey de Louvain in 1200- Pipe Rolls 2 John I, p.48]
2.Alan brother of Gervase
3.Roger fitz Alan

The pedigree for Ralph fitz Herlwin, uncle of Gervaise de Cornhill is
also given

1. Herlwin
2. Ralph fitz Herlwin, joint sheriff of London in 1130
3. Robert fitz Ralph= Mary dau. Baldwin de Arras
3. William
3. Herlwin
2. William
2. Herlwin

Pedigree of Mary wife of Robert fitz Ralph

1. Algar Colessune (or Colswein), pirest of St Michael's, Cheap.
2.Nicholas priest of St Michael's, Cheap. d.s.p.
2.Dau.= Baldwin de Arras
3. Mary=Robert fitz Ralph who inherited the living of St
Michael's from his wife's uncle.

Reginald de Cornhill the elder had a wife named Maud, and it was
through her that Reginald had a claim to the stewardship of St
Augustine's abbey, Canterbury, which he and his wife quitclaimed for 80
marks and 50 acres in land by fine in 1197.

The information that Juliana was a Cornhill perhaps comes from BL Harl.
MS4748, f.22, or f.27 as it is not mentioned in the body of the fine
itself. The note given with the A2A abstract says that Strubby had been
alienated by 1325 but in fact by 1311 Strubby had been returned to the
Welles family as indicated by Adam de Welles' inquisition - either by
purchase, marriage or legal action. That it may have been originally
Welles' land is indicated by the claim of William de Welles in the 1227
law suit.

Cheers

Rosie

Gjest

Re: Identification of Juliana, wife of Robert de Chaucombe

Legg inn av Gjest » 17 mai 2005 03:13:37

For what it is worth from Walter Besant, "Early London" p 347. The
previous pages give a textual rundown of the family which agrees with
Rosie's pedigree. There follows on the next page a chart, also
agreeing.

p. 347: One more episode in the history of Gervase has been unearthed
by Mr. Round (Feudal England, p 471[,
The manor of Langham in Essex, near Colchester, was part of the
property of the great Clare famiy. It was given by Richard de Clare,
some time before the year 1086, to Walter Tirel, who married his
daughter Adeliza. Sometime between 1138 and 1148, Hugh Tirel sold the
lanor, or raised money upon it, the purchaser, or the lender, being
Gervase of Cornhill, who obtained possession of it either by
foreclosing the mortgage or by purchase, Hugh Tirel himself taking a
part in the Crusade, while the London merchant, staying at home,
profited by the religious enthusiasm of the time. Fifty years later,
Richard I. granted permission to Henry son of Gervase of Cornhill, to
enclose and empark his woods at Langham. "Thus," says Round, "did the
wealthy Londoner become a country squire some centuries ago." (See
Appendix V [sorry, I don't have that]).

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