Early Grimaldis

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Jazmine

Early Grimaldis

Legg inn av Jazmine » 10 mai 2005 23:45:12

Hello, this is my first time posting, so excuse me for any mistakes.
I've read some of the posts before, but I'm still a newbie. I am
putting together a Grimaldi family pedigree for my homepage and ran
into some problems with the early generations. Any extra dates or
corrections would be great.


OTTO Canella, Consul of Genova (about 1100 - before June 1143)

GRIMALDO I Canella, Consul of Genova (about 1140 - 1184)

OBERTO Grimaldi, Admiral of Genova, Commissioner in Genova (about 1170
- 1252) [m] Corradina Spinola a daughter of Oberto Spinola and Sibilla
de Volta

GRIMALDO II Grimaldi, Member of the Council of Genova (about 1200 -
after 1257) [m] Oriette de Castro a daughter of Merle de Castro

LANFRANCO Grimaldi, French Vicar of Provence (about 1230 - 1293)

RAINIER I Grimaldi, Admiral of France, Lord of Cagnes (1267 - 1314) [m]
Salvatica del Carretto a daughter of Giacomo del Carretto, Imperial
Vicar of Northern Italy, Marquis of Finale, Noli, Novello, Monchiero,
Lequio and Saliceto and Caterina de Marano

Is this marriage correct? Some have his father Lanfranco marrying a
sister of Salvatica in 1281, but if the birth date Rainier is correct,
then she could not have been his mother. So maybe he married his
stepmother's sister? A double wedding maybe?


CHARLES I Grimaldi, Sovereign Lord of Monaco, Menton, and Roquebrune
(about 1300 - 1357) [m] Lucchina Spinola a daughter of Gerardo Spinola,
Lord of Lucca and Tortone and Pietra de Marini

RAINIER II Grimaldi, Sovereign Lord of Monaco, Menton, and Roquebrune
(1350 - 1407) [m] Isabelle Asinari (d 1417)

Rainier's son Jean was the son of the second wife, Isabelle Asinari,
of Rainier, but I don't have any details on her parents.


JEAN Grimaldi, Sovereign Lord of Monaco, Menton, and Roquebrune (1382 -
1454) [m 1407] Pomellina Campofregoso (1387 - 1462) a daughter of
Pietro I Campofregoso, Doge of Genova, Admiral of Genova, General of
the Genovese Army and Benedetta Doria

CATALAN Grimaldi, Sovereign Lord of Monaco, Menton, and Roquebrune
(1415 - July 1457 Monaco) [m] Bianca del Carretto (1432 - 1458 Monaco)
a daughter of Galeotto I del Carretto, Marquis of Noli and Finale and
Vannina Adorno

CLAUDINE Grimaldi, Sovereign Lady of Monaco, Menton, and Roquebrune
(1451 - 1515) [m on August 19, 1465 at Ventimiglia, Imperia, Liguria,
Italy] LAMBERT Grimaldi, Sovereign Lord of Monaco, Menton, and
Roquebrune (1414 - March 15, 1494 Menton, Alpes-Maritimes,
Provence-Alpes-Cote d'Azur, France) a son of Niccolo Grimaldi, Lord of
Antibes and Cesarina Doria

Thanks

Jazmine Grimaldi

Renia

Re: Early Grimaldis

Legg inn av Renia » 11 mai 2005 00:47:15

I don't know if you have been to the Palace of Monaco, or whether you
can get there, but the Grimaldi tree is available on a huge wall-mounted
chart.

However, from "The Principality of Monaco" by Rene Novella, Bonechi,
Florence, 2003 (Preface by HRH Prince Rainier III):

Jazmine wrote:

Hello, this is my first time posting, so excuse me for any mistakes.
I've read some of the posts before, but I'm still a newbie. I am
putting together a Grimaldi family pedigree for my homepage and ran
into some problems with the early generations. Any extra dates or
corrections would be great.


OTTO Canella, Consul of Genova (about 1100 - before June 1143)

Died in 1143

GRIMALDO I Canella, Consul of Genova (about 1140 - 1184)

Elected Consul of Genova 3 times

OBERTO Grimaldi, Admiral of Genova, Commissioner in Genova (about 1170
- 1252) [m] Corradina Spinola a daughter of Oberto Spinola and Sibilla
de Volta

GRIMALDO II Grimaldi, Member of the Council of Genova (about 1200 -
after 1257) [m] Oriette de Castro a daughter of Merle de Castro

LANFRANCO Grimaldi, French Vicar of Provence (about 1230 - 1293)

Presumably the same as Francis Grimaldi, known as Maliza, who tricked
his way into the castle of Monaco on 8 January 1297. With his men
dressed up as Franciscan Monks, he took possession of it.


RAINIER I Grimaldi, Admiral of France, Lord of Cagnes (1267 - 1314) [m]
Salvatica del Carretto a daughter of Giacomo del Carretto, Imperial
Vicar of Northern Italy, Marquis of Finale, Noli, Novello, Monchiero,
Lequio and Saliceto and Caterina de Marano

Great-grandson of Otto Canella. Considered founder of Monaco Grimaldis
though he never set foot in Monaco.

Is this marriage correct? Some have his father Lanfranco marrying a
sister of Salvatica in 1281, but if the birth date Rainier is correct,
then she could not have been his mother. So maybe he married his
stepmother's sister? A double wedding maybe?


CHARLES I Grimaldi, Sovereign Lord of Monaco, Menton, and Roquebrune
(about 1300 - 1357) [m] Lucchina Spinola a daughter of Gerardo Spinola,
Lord of Lucca and Tortone and Pietra de Marini

Reconquered Monaco in 1331 and took possession of the seigniories of
Menton and Roquebrune. Took part in Battle of Crecy and Siege of Calais.
Died during Seige of Monaco which fell to the Genoese with Roquebrune.
Menton remained with the Grimaldis.

RAINIER II Grimaldi, Sovereign Lord of Monaco, Menton, and Roquebrune
(1350 - 1407) [m] Isabelle Asinari (d 1417)

Regained possession of Roquebrune in 1407. Had 3 sons (Anglicised to)
Ambrose, Anthony and John, each of whom ruled for a year from 1419 until
John I became the only Lord of Monaco.

Rainier's son Jean was the son of the second wife, Isabelle Asinari,
of Rainier, but I don't have any details on her parents.


JEAN Grimaldi, Sovereign Lord of Monaco, Menton, and Roquebrune (1382 -
1454) [m 1407] Pomellina Campofregoso (1387 - 1462) a daughter of
Pietro I Campofregoso, Doge of Genova, Admiral of Genova, General of
the Genovese Army and Benedetta Doria

CATALAN Grimaldi, Sovereign Lord of Monaco, Menton, and Roquebrune
(1415 - July 1457 Monaco) [m] Bianca del Carretto (1432 - 1458 Monaco)
a daughter of Galeotto I del Carretto, Marquis of Noli and Finale and
Vannina Adorno

Ruled for only 3 years before his death. He appointed his mother,
Pomelline as his successor and she was succeeded by her younger
daughter, Claudine, below. She married her cousin, Lambert Grimaldi,
sovereign of Menton, when she was 15. She bore 14 children.

CLAUDINE Grimaldi, Sovereign Lady of Monaco, Menton, and Roquebrune
(1451 - 1515) [m on August 19, 1465 at Ventimiglia, Imperia, Liguria,
Italy] LAMBERT Grimaldi, Sovereign Lord of Monaco, Menton, and
Roquebrune (1414 - March 15, 1494 Menton, Alpes-Maritimes,
Provence-Alpes-Cote d'Azur, France) a son of Niccolo Grimaldi, Lord of
Antibes and Cesarina Doria

There might be further information for you on this web site:

http://www.grimaldi.org/

Renia

Thanks

Jazmine Grimaldi

Jazmine

Re: Early Grimaldis

Legg inn av Jazmine » 11 mai 2005 03:11:33

I'm going to be posting the full pedigree on my homepage very soon,
along with pictures and the like, and I'll give the link.


RAINIER I Grimaldi, Admiral of France, Lord of Cagnes (1267 - 1314)
[m]
Salvatica del Carretto a daughter of Giacomo del Carretto, Imperial
Vicar of Northern Italy, Marquis of Finale, Noli, Novello,
Monchiero,
Lequio and Saliceto and Caterina de Marano

Is this marriage correct? Some have his father Lanfranco marrying a
sister of Salvatica in 1281, but if the birth date Rainier is
correct,
then she could not have been his mother. So maybe he married his
stepmother's sister? A double wedding maybe?




For Rainier Grimaldi, Admiral of France, the wife shown in the Table
d'Ascendance de Catherine Baillon is Marguerite Ruffo/Ruffa. Pere
Anselme splits this Rainier into father and son, with the son married
to
Marguerite Ruffo. (As an aside, this name appears in some on-line
databases as 'Russo', which occurs to me must be a misreading of the
written script.)
There at least appears to be general consensus that the Admiral,
Rainier was born circa 1267. The Grimaldi website mentioned by Renia,

suggests this Lanfranco above was ambassador of Genoa in 1237, but if
so
his date of birth would have to be pushed back proportionally, to
possibly circa 1210? That would facilitate the extra generation.
Perhaps
it is a question of two Lanfrancos rather than two Rainiers?
Another question, was Rainier the Admiral married more than once?


I don't see where there would need to be two Rainiers, because 1267 -
1314 isn't even all that long of a lifespan. Two Lanfrancos? I don't
know of any good evidence for that, but it does seem he lived a long
life, but nothing impossibly long.

Based on the new evidence I would replace the chronology as

OBERTO Grimaldi, Admiral of Genova, Commissioner in Genova (about 1170
- 1252) [m] Corradina Spinola a daughter of Oberto Spinola and Sibilla
de Volta

GRIMALDO II Grimaldi, Member of the Council of Genova (about 1190 -
after 1257) [m] Oriette de Castro a daughter of Merle de Castro

LANFRANCO Grimaldi, French Vicar of Provence (about 1215 - 1293)

I think Lanfranco could have been born in about 1215 and have been an
ambassador 1237, but perhaps someone else could comment on that who is
more knowledgeable. If he was about approx. 1215 he would have lived
about 78 years, and would have had Rainier at 52, which is still quite
possible. Lanfranco married Aurelia del Caretto (1254 - 1307) in 1281.
She would have been at least a second wife, so maybe the age difference
could be explained that way.

Rainier the Admiral married Salvatica, later Andriola Grillo, and
apparently Marguerite Ruffo. As to which is the mother of his son, I'm
now unsure.

Aurelia, the wife of Lanfranco, secondly married the founder of Monaco,
her husband's cousin, Francesco Grimaldi (d 1309) in 1295. Aurelia was
the daughter of Giacomo del Carretto and Caterina de Marano the natural
daughter of Emperor Frederick II. But I don't see how she could have
been the mother of Rainier if he was indeed born in 1267.

Jazmine Grimaldi

Roger LeBlanc

Re: Early Grimaldis

Legg inn av Roger LeBlanc » 11 mai 2005 03:21:01

It is very nice to see your posting on this subject. Just last month we
had several postings about the Grimaldis (Baillon Descent from Frederick
Barbarrossa via Grimaldis) which raised some questions for me that your
post also highlights. Just to quote the relevant portion of your email:

Jazmine wrote:

GRIMALDO II Grimaldi, Member of the Council of Genova (about 1200 -
after 1257) [m] Oriette de Castro a daughter of Merle de Castro

LANFRANCO Grimaldi, French Vicar of Provence (about 1230 - 1293)

RAINIER I Grimaldi, Admiral of France, Lord of Cagnes (1267 - 1314) [m]
Salvatica del Carretto a daughter of Giacomo del Carretto, Imperial
Vicar of Northern Italy, Marquis of Finale, Noli, Novello, Monchiero,
Lequio and Saliceto and Caterina de Marano

Is this marriage correct? Some have his father Lanfranco marrying a
sister of Salvatica in 1281, but if the birth date Rainier is correct,
then she could not have been his mother. So maybe he married his
stepmother's sister? A double wedding maybe?




For Rainier Grimaldi, Admiral of France, the wife shown in the Table

d'Ascendance de Catherine Baillon is Marguerite Ruffo/Ruffa. Pere
Anselme splits this Rainier into father and son, with the son married to
Marguerite Ruffo. (As an aside, this name appears in some on-line
databases as 'Russo', which occurs to me must be a misreading of the
written script.)
There at least appears to be general consensus that the Admiral,
Rainier was born circa 1267. The Grimaldi website mentioned by Renia,
suggests this Lanfranco above was ambassador of Genoa in 1237, but if so
his date of birth would have to be pushed back proportionally, to
possibly circa 1210? That would facilitate the extra generation. Perhaps
it is a question of two Lanfrancos rather than two Rainiers?
Another question, was Rainier the Admiral married more than once?

Roger LeBlanc

Roger LeBlanc

Re: Early Grimaldis

Legg inn av Roger LeBlanc » 11 mai 2005 06:10:02

Just replying to some of the observations from your posting.

Jazmine wrote:

I don't see where there would need to be two Rainiers, because 1267 -
1314 isn't even all that long of a lifespan. Two Lanfrancos? I don't
know of any good evidence for that, but it does seem he lived a long
life, but nothing impossibly long.

Based on the new evidence I would replace the chronology as

OBERTO Grimaldi, Admiral of Genova, Commissioner in Genova (about 1170
- 1252) [m] Corradina Spinola a daughter of Oberto Spinola and Sibilla
de Volta

GRIMALDO II Grimaldi, Member of the Council of Genova (about 1190 -
after 1257) [m] Oriette de Castro a daughter of Merle de Castro

LANFRANCO Grimaldi, French Vicar of Provence (about 1215 - 1293)


Here I was wondering if there was a source for the circa 1235 birthdate

shown for Lanfranco. If so then he could not have been an ambassador in
1237--unless that citation is in error. This is where I was guessing at
two Lanfrancos. Your chronology presented below does work though if
these two points don't contradict it in any manner.

I think Lanfranco could have been born in about 1215 and have been an
ambassador 1237, but perhaps someone else could comment on that who is
more knowledgeable. If he was about approx. 1215 he would have lived
about 78 years, and would have had Rainier at 52, which is still quite
possible. Lanfranco married Aurelia del Caretto (1254 - 1307) in 1281.
She would have been at least a second wife, so maybe the age difference
could be explained that way.

Rainier the Admiral married Salvatica, later Andriola Grillo, and
apparently Marguerite Ruffo. As to which is the mother of his son, I'm
now unsure.

Aurelia, the wife of Lanfranco, secondly married the founder of Monaco,
her husband's cousin, Francesco Grimaldi (d 1309) in 1295. Aurelia was
the daughter of Giacomo del Carretto and Caterina de Marano the natural
daughter of Emperor Frederick II. But I don't see how she could have
been the mother of Rainier if he was indeed born in 1267.


Renia

Re: Early Grimaldis

Legg inn av Renia » 11 mai 2005 10:05:49

Jazmine wrote:
I'm going to be posting the full pedigree on my homepage very soon,
along with pictures and the like, and I'll give the link.



RAINIER I Grimaldi, Admiral of France, Lord of Cagnes (1267 - 1314)

[m]

Salvatica del Carretto a daughter of Giacomo del Carretto, Imperial
Vicar of Northern Italy, Marquis of Finale, Noli, Novello,

Monchiero,

Lequio and Saliceto and Caterina de Marano

Is this marriage correct? Some have his father Lanfranco marrying a
sister of Salvatica in 1281, but if the birth date Rainier is

correct,

then she could not have been his mother. So maybe he married his
stepmother's sister? A double wedding maybe?





For Rainier Grimaldi, Admiral of France, the wife shown in the Table
d'Ascendance de Catherine Baillon is Marguerite Ruffo/Ruffa. Pere
Anselme splits this Rainier into father and son, with the son married

to

Marguerite Ruffo. (As an aside, this name appears in some on-line
databases as 'Russo', which occurs to me must be a misreading of the
written script.)
There at least appears to be general consensus that the Admiral,
Rainier was born circa 1267. The Grimaldi website mentioned by Renia,


suggests this Lanfranco above was ambassador of Genoa in 1237, but if

so

his date of birth would have to be pushed back proportionally, to
possibly circa 1210? That would facilitate the extra generation.

Perhaps

it is a question of two Lanfrancos rather than two Rainiers?
Another question, was Rainier the Admiral married more than once?



I don't see where there would need to be two Rainiers, because 1267 -
1314 isn't even all that long of a lifespan. Two Lanfrancos? I don't
know of any good evidence for that, but it does seem he lived a long
life, but nothing impossibly long.

Based on the new evidence I would replace the chronology as

OBERTO Grimaldi, Admiral of Genova, Commissioner in Genova (about 1170
- 1252) [m] Corradina Spinola a daughter of Oberto Spinola and Sibilla
de Volta

GRIMALDO II Grimaldi, Member of the Council of Genova (about 1190 -
after 1257) [m] Oriette de Castro a daughter of Merle de Castro

LANFRANCO Grimaldi, French Vicar of Provence (about 1215 - 1293)

As I said in my other post, based on the Monaco book I cited:
Presumably the same as Francis Grimaldi, known as Maliza, who tricked
his way into the castle of Monaco on 8 January 1297. With his men
dressed up as Franciscan Monks, he took possession of it.

In other words, he was still alive in 1297. Unless, as Roger suggests,
there were two of them.

Renia

Jean-François BLANC

Re: Early Grimaldis

Legg inn av Jean-François BLANC » 14 mai 2005 10:41:01

Did you check the Roglo database?
Start by the present prince at:
http://geneweb.inria.fr/roglo?lang=en;p ... n=Grimaldi
or by the last "true" grimaldi at:
http://geneweb.inria.fr/roglo?lang=en;p ... maldi;oc=1

JF Blanc

Jazmine

Re: Early Grimaldis

Legg inn av Jazmine » 14 mai 2005 20:13:50

Roger LeBlanc wrote:
Just replying to some of the observations from your posting.

Jazmine wrote:

I don't see where there would need to be two Rainiers, because 1267
-
1314 isn't even all that long of a lifespan. Two Lanfrancos? I don't
know of any good evidence for that, but it does seem he lived a long
life, but nothing impossibly long.

Based on the new evidence I would replace the chronology as

OBERTO Grimaldi, Admiral of Genova, Commissioner in Genova (about
1170
- 1252) [m] Corradina Spinola a daughter of Oberto Spinola and
Sibilla
de Volta

GRIMALDO II Grimaldi, Member of the Council of Genova (about 1190 -
after 1257) [m] Oriette de Castro a daughter of Merle de Castro

LANFRANCO Grimaldi, French Vicar of Provence (about 1215 - 1293)


Here I was wondering if there was a source for the circa 1235
birthdate
shown for Lanfranco. If so then he could not have been an ambassador
in
1237--unless that citation is in error. This is where I was guessing
at
two Lanfrancos. Your chronology presented below does work though if
these two points don't contradict it in any manner.

No, no, the about birthdates are just a guess, there is no source for
them. They are based around how old they would probably have been when
they were first mentioned in positions and such. Maybe I should scrap
those dates so as not to confuse anybody, because they were mostly for
my own notes.


I think Lanfranco could have been born in about 1215 and have been
an
ambassador 1237, but perhaps someone else could comment on that who
is
more knowledgeable. If he was about approx. 1215 he would have lived
about 78 years, and would have had Rainier at 52, which is still
quite
possible. Lanfranco married Aurelia del Caretto (1254 - 1307) in
1281.
She would have been at least a second wife, so maybe the age
difference
could be explained that way.

Rainier the Admiral married Salvatica, later Andriola Grillo, and
apparently Marguerite Ruffo. As to which is the mother of his son,
I'm
now unsure.

Aurelia, the wife of Lanfranco, secondly married the founder of
Monaco,
her husband's cousin, Francesco Grimaldi (d 1309) in 1295. Aurelia
was
the daughter of Giacomo del Carretto and Caterina de Marano the
natural
daughter of Emperor Frederick II. But I don't see how she could have
been the mother of Rainier if he was indeed born in 1267.



Jazmine Grimaldi

Jazmine

Re: Early Grimaldis

Legg inn av Jazmine » 14 mai 2005 20:21:29

The founder of Monaco is a separate person from Lanfranco actually.
Francesco (d 1309) was the son of Guillaume Grimaldi the son of Antoine
Grimaldi the son of Grimaldo II Grimaldi. He apparently married the
widow of Lanfranco in 1295 and he was maybe the step-father of Rainier
if he was the son of Aurelia. Hope that's not too confusing.

Jazmine Grimaldi

Jazmine

Re: Early Grimaldis

Legg inn av Jazmine » 14 mai 2005 20:23:33

No, thanks for the suggestion.

Jazmine Grimaldi

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