Brewes-Wingfield-Pole connection

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Paul Mackenzie

Brewes-Wingfield-Pole connection

Legg inn av Paul Mackenzie » 27 apr 2005 03:01:43

Hi John and all

Sometime ago there was much discussion on
this issue, the outcome of which was
John R. proposed the following tree
which I have abbreviated here (see his
post of 31 Dec 2003 for a full discussion
and references).

1. Richard de Brewes d 1292 m Alice Rus d1296
children:
1.1 Giles de Brewes d 1310
1.2 Richard de Brewes d aft 1318

1.2 Richard de Brewes of Stradbroke, Suffolk
b bef 1277 d aft 1318
m Alianora da. of Alianore de Shelton
& Sir John Shelton.
children:
1.2.1 Richard de Brewes

1.2.1 Sir Richard de Brewes, Stradbrok, Suffolk
b 1301 daft 1357.
m Katherine d aft 1376
children:
1.2.1.1 Alianor

1.2.1.1 Alianor b c1320 d1376
m Sir John Wingfield d 1361
son of John Wingfield and
Elizabeth Honeypot
children:
1.2.1.1.1 Katherine Wingfield

1.2.1.1 Katherine Wingfield b ca 1349 d 1386
m Michael de la Pole b ca 1330
d 1389, Earl of Suffolk


A. This tree was based to some degree on the
descent of the manor of Stradbroke. Unfortunately,
thereare a number of manors in Stradbroke
which confused the issue.

Recently, I have been able to identify the
manor in question. In the I.P.M. on William
le Rus 44 Hen III No. 15 [1260] cited by
Copingers Vol 4 p 85 states he was seised
of the manor of Stradbroke held of
Richard King, of Almain, of the honour of Eye,
by fee farm rendering 40 marks yearly, and
Byrcholt, pertaining to the manor, to be held
of William de Huntingfield by service of 2
marks yearly. Alice was found to be his heir,
and she subsequently married Richard de Brewes.

A century later, there are a series of Patent
Rolls granting to Michael Pole "40 marks of
rent from the fee farm of Michael's manor of
Stradebrok" CP 1381-1385 p122-123,CP 1381-1385
p450, etc.

This lends support to John's proposal. If we
could find further references to this fee
farm of Stradebrok intermediate these two times
it would further confirm the tree.

B. Moriarty, NEGHR 103 [Oct 1949] pp 287-295
relies on the following to show that the manor
of Stradbroke passed by inheritance rather
than by other means.

"John Wingfield by his will made his wife Eleanor
his executrix, and she, together with his brother,
Sir Thomas de Wingfield,established, as provided
by the will, a chantry at Wingfield for the souls
of himself, Sir John, and of his father and mother,
and of Sir Richard de Brewes, and of John (Thomas?)
Varley and Joan his wife."

The same may apply to the Varlays. They may be
ancestors of the Wingfields, even parents of John
Wingfield d1361. However this goes against traditional
thought that John's parents were Honipots.
See the following:

1.1330, 4 Edw. III, No. 6. Sir Thomas Verlay and
Joan against Oliver Ermerger and Thomas de Wingefeld
in Sternefeld,Saxmundham, Benhall, Farnham, and
Holton and the advowson of the Saxmundham church.
Suffolk Feet of Fines, Walter Rye 167.

2.1337, 11 Edw. III, No. 2
John de Wyngefeld and Alianora his wife vs Giles
Wyngefeld, parson of the church and Roger le Haukere,
clerk, in Sternefeld, Saxmundham, Benhalle, Farnham,
and Snape, and the advowson of the church of Saxmundham
church.
Suffolk Feet of Fines, Walter Rye, p183.

3. 1365
Feb. 4.Westminster
Commission of oyer and terminer to Robert de Thorpe,
Ralph de Hemenhale, Thomas de Morieux and John de
Cavendissh, on complaint by Eleanor late the wife
of John de Wyngefeld that Stephen Payon and others
entered her free warren at Silham, Esham, Waybred,
Fresyngfeld, Stradebroke, Sternesfeld, Snape, Freston,
Saxmondham, and Wyngefeld, co. Suffolk, hunted therein,
broke her close there, fished in her several fishery
at Silham, and carried away fish, as well as ham,
conies, pheasants and partridges from the warren. By K.
CP 1365 p135


Comments would be welcome.

Regard

Paul Mackenzie

Gjest

Re: Brewes-Wingfield-Pole connection

Legg inn av Gjest » 13 mai 2005 22:00:35

Dear Paul,

I only now read your fine post of 26 April, and was
pleased to see that you had found references (extracted
below) in the IPM (1260) of William le Rus and PR references
to Michael de la Pole to the same holding in Stradbroke,
Suffolk. This certainly adds to the theory, first expounded
by Moriarty, that Alianor (wife of Sir John de Wingfield)
was a daughter of Sir Richard de Brewes/Breuse, and brought
Stradbrooke and other manors to her marriage.

With luck, some further corroboration will be found
in the near term to precisely define the relationship.

Many thanks,

John *


You wrote (in part):

" In the I.P.M. on William
le Rus 44 Hen III No. 15 [1260] cited by
Copingers Vol 4 p 85 states he was seised
of the manor of Stradbroke held of
Richard King, of Almain, of the honour of Eye,
by fee farm rendering 40 marks yearly, and
Byrcholt, pertaining to the manor, to be held
of William de Huntingfield by service of 2
marks yearly. Alice was found to be his heir,
and she subsequently married Richard de Brewes.

" A century later, there are a series of Patent
Rolls granting to Michael Pole "40 marks of
rent from the fee farm of Michael's manor of
Stradebrok" CP 1381-1385 p122-123,CP 1381-1385
p450, etc. "



* John P. Ravilious

Paul Mackenzie

Re: Brewes-Wingfield-Pole connection

Legg inn av Paul Mackenzie » 14 mai 2005 12:29:47

therav3@aol.com wrote:

Dear Paul,

I only now read your fine post of 26 April, and was
pleased to see that you had found references (extracted
below) in the IPM (1260) of William le Rus and PR references
to Michael de la Pole to the same holding in Stradbroke,
Suffolk. This certainly adds to the theory, first expounded
by Moriarty, that Alianor (wife of Sir John de Wingfield)
was a daughter of Sir Richard de Brewes/Breuse, and brought
Stradbrooke and other manors to her marriage.

With luck, some further corroboration will be found
in the near term to precisely define the relationship.

Many thanks,

John *


You wrote (in part):

" In the I.P.M. on William
le Rus 44 Hen III No. 15 [1260] cited by
Copingers Vol 4 p 85 states he was seised
of the manor of Stradbroke held of
Richard King, of Almain, of the honour of Eye,
by fee farm rendering 40 marks yearly, and
Byrcholt, pertaining to the manor, to be held
of William de Huntingfield by service of 2
marks yearly. Alice was found to be his heir,
and she subsequently married Richard de Brewes.

" A century later, there are a series of Patent
Rolls granting to Michael Pole "40 marks of
rent from the fee farm of Michael's manor of
Stradebrok" CP 1381-1385 p122-123,CP 1381-1385
p450, etc. "



* John P. Ravilious


Hi John, and others

We may find the corrobation we need in the I.P.M
of Eleanor Wyngefeld. According to Copinger "Manors
of Suffolk" this may be found at
I.P.M. 49 Edw. III. Pt. ii 54 Extent.
Has any one ready access to the Cal. I.P.M.????
Her I.P.M. may be published in it.

It would be interesting to see if her I.P.M. refers
to her being in possession of the manor of Stradbroke
by fee farm rendering 40 marks yearly.

Regards

Paul

Paul K Davis

Re: Brewes-Wingfield-Pole connection

Legg inn av Paul K Davis » 15 mai 2005 17:21:03

Bingo! You are precisely right!

"Stradebrok and Wyngefield. The manors, held of the earl of Suffolk, as of
the honor of Eye, at a fee-farm of 40 marks yearly."

This is a paragraph from the following:

"217. Eleanor Late the Wife of John de Wyngefeld, knight." page 232,
Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, volume XIV.

The subheading is "Writ, Rokyngham, 3 September, 49 Edward III." and the
first quoted paragraph is one of five in the section headed, "Suffolk.
Inq. (indented) taken at Becklys, Tuesday after the Exaltation of the Holy
Cross, 49 Edward III."

The trailer reads, "Date of death as above. Katharine her daughter, aged
26 years and more, wife of Michael Attepool, knight, is here next heir. /
C. Edw. III. File 254. (8.) / E. Endrolments &c. of Inq. No. 174. (15.)
(Suffolk.)"

-- PKD [Paul K Davis, pkd-gm@earthlink.net]


[Original Message]
From: Paul Mackenzie <paul.mackenzie@ozemail.com.au
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Date: 5/14/2005 4:39:48 AM
Subject: Re: Brewes-Wingfield-Pole connection

therav3@aol.com wrote:

Dear Paul,

I only now read your fine post of 26 April, and was
pleased to see that you had found references (extracted
below) in the IPM (1260) of William le Rus and PR references
to Michael de la Pole to the same holding in Stradbroke,
Suffolk. This certainly adds to the theory, first expounded
by Moriarty, that Alianor (wife of Sir John de Wingfield)
was a daughter of Sir Richard de Brewes/Breuse, and brought
Stradbrooke and other manors to her marriage.

With luck, some further corroboration will be found
in the near term to precisely define the relationship.

Many thanks,

John *


You wrote (in part):

" In the I.P.M. on William
le Rus 44 Hen III No. 15 [1260] cited by
Copingers Vol 4 p 85 states he was seised
of the manor of Stradbroke held of
Richard King, of Almain, of the honour of Eye,
by fee farm rendering 40 marks yearly, and
Byrcholt, pertaining to the manor, to be held
of William de Huntingfield by service of 2
marks yearly. Alice was found to be his heir,
and she subsequently married Richard de Brewes.

" A century later, there are a series of Patent
Rolls granting to Michael Pole "40 marks of
rent from the fee farm of Michael's manor of
Stradebrok" CP 1381-1385 p122-123,CP 1381-1385
p450, etc. "



* John P. Ravilious


Hi John, and others

We may find the corrobation we need in the I.P.M
of Eleanor Wyngefeld. According to Copinger "Manors
of Suffolk" this may be found at
I.P.M. 49 Edw. III. Pt. ii 54 Extent.
Has any one ready access to the Cal. I.P.M.????
Her I.P.M. may be published in it.

It would be interesting to see if her I.P.M. refers
to her being in possession of the manor of Stradbroke
by fee farm rendering 40 marks yearly.

Regards

Paul

Gjest

Re: Brewes-Wingfield-Pole connection

Legg inn av Gjest » 16 mai 2005 12:13:29

Dear Paul,

Bingo indeed!

It's interesting that the IPM (1375) of Alianor/Eleanor de
Wingfield shows both manors of Stradbroke and Wingfield together as
being held at a fee farm of 40 marks yearly - this may be due to prior
transactions, including the advowson of transfer of the advowson of
Stradbroke in 1363. Note that in the 1363 transaction, this was done
with the assent of Alianor de Wingfield's overlord - Robert d'Ufford,
Earl of Suffolk........

Many thanks for this find.

Cheers,

John

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