Gay Ancestry: Aline de Gay, wife of Alan Basset

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Douglas Richardson royala

Gay Ancestry: Aline de Gay, wife of Alan Basset

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson royala » 15 apr 2005 01:31:17

William Reedy, editor of _Basset Charters c.1120 to 1250_ (London,
1995),
table 3 on p. xxxix, gave Philip as the youngest son of his father's
first
wife, Alice de Gray, presumably considering that his daughter Aline
was
named after his step-mother or sister.

Is this an error on Reedy's part, and/or is there specific evidence
for
Philip's maternity?

Dear Newsgroup ~

Yes, Mr. Reedy made an unfortunate error. Sir Philip Basset was the
son of Alan Basset, of Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, by his only known
wife, Aline, daughter and co-heiress of Philip de Gay (or Gai), of
Wootton Basset, Wiltshire and Northbrook, Oxfordshire. Aline's surname
is definitely Gay (or Gai), not Gray.

I believe you can find Aline's correct surname given in an ancient deed
(#A4821) in which her husband, Alan Basset, gave the offerings of the
chapel of his court of Wootton to the mother church of Wootton.
Aline's surname can also be found in a charter published in Bradenstoke
Cartulary:

Littlecott
[1229 x 1232] Gift in alms by Alan Basset, at the instance of Aline
de Gay his wife, of all the land held by Ethelwin in Littlecott,
together with
Ethelwin and all his family. To be held of Alan and his heirs, free of
all
but royal service and a rent of 5s. payable annually to the house of
[Monkton]
Farleigh at the feast of St. Mary in Mar. and at Michaelmas. Warranty.
Seals of Alan and Aline. Witnesses: Sir Wal. abbot of Stanley, Gilb.
Basset. END OF QUOTE. [Reference: Vera London, Cartulary of
Bradenstoke Priory (Wiltshire Rec. Soc. 35) (1979)].

Aline de Gay's lands in Wiltshire and Oxfordshire eventually passed to
her son, Sir Philip Basset, and thence by lineal descent onto the
Despenser family. Below is a record taken from the National Archives
catalogue which shows Sir Philip Basset was patron of the church of
Wootton Bassett, Wiltshire, which property formed part of his Gay
inheritance:

E 42/377:
Ordinances made by Walter, Bishop of Salisbury, for a hospital to be
founded at Wootton Bassett by Sir Philip Basset, patron of the church,
and Th. de Gay, rector: [Wilts.]. Date: 1266.

By the way, it would be great if newsgroup members could post their
descent from Aline de Gay, wife of Alan Basset, down to an immigrant
gateway ancestor. Aline de Gay has modern descendants through three of
her children: (1) Sir Philip Basset (ancestor of the Despenser family);
(2) Aline (wife of Drew de Montagu, Richard Talbot, and Nicholas de
Yatingdon); and (3) Katherine (wife of John Lovel). If we look for it,
I bet we all have Gay ancestry.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net

Peter Stewart

Re: Gay Ancestry: Aline de Gay, wife of Alan Basset

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 15 apr 2005 12:23:22

<royalancestry@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1113525077.085896.270350@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

[I wrote:]

William Reedy, editor of _Basset Charters c.1120 to 1250_ (London,
1995), table 3 on p. xxxix, gave Philip as the youngest son of his
father's first wife, Alice de Gray, presumably considering that his
daughter Aline was named after his step-mother or sister.

Is this an error on Reedy's part, and/or is there specific evidence
for Philip's maternity?

Dear Newsgroup ~

Yes, Mr. Reedy made an unfortunate error. Sir Philip Basset was the
son of Alan Basset, of Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, by his only known
wife, Aline, daughter and co-heiress of Philip de Gay (or Gai), of
Wootton Basset, Wiltshire and Northbrook, Oxfordshire. Aline's surname
is definitely Gay (or Gai), not Gray.

I believe you can find Aline's correct surname given in an ancient deed
(#A4821) in which her husband, Alan Basset, gave the offerings of the
chapel of his court of Wootton to the mother church of Wootton.
Aline's surname can also be found in a charter published in Bradenstoke
Cartulary:

This "ancient" deed is given by Reedy, as no. 242 on p. 164 - "Alanus
Basseth et Alina de Gai uxor ipsius". In a note to this the editor states:

"Alan was married to his first wife Alice into Easter term 1205...He married
Aline de Gay sometime before 16 April 1206 [when another charter, Reedy's
no. 100 on p. 54, named "Alanum Basset et Alinam uxorem suam"]...Aline was
still alive on 10 June 1229...She d. before 22 April 1230...It is just
possible that Alice ["de Gray"] was the same person as Aline, but if so the
hand suggests early 13th cent. as early limit. See V.C.H. Wilts. ix, 192."

Can someone tell us what the VCH reference has to say about this?

Peter Stewart

Gjest

Re: Gay Ancestry: Aline de Gay, wife of Alan Basset

Legg inn av Gjest » 15 apr 2005 20:11:01

Hi,
DR suggested presenting lines from Aline de Gay to immigrant gateway
ancestors. The following may be found in PA3 and his recent writings on Gen-Medieval

Descendants of Aline Pipard

1 Aline Pipard
.... +Stephen de Gay
.. 2 Aline de Gay
........ +Alan Bassett
..... 3 Phillip Bassett
........ 4 Aline Basset 1241 -
.............. +Hugh le Despenser
........... 5 Hugh le Despenser 1260/61 - 1326
................. +Alianor de Clare 1292-1337
.............. 6 Edward le Despenser - 1342
.................... +Anne de Ferrers - 1367
.................. 7 Edward le Despenser 1335/36 - 1375
........................ +Elizabeth de Burghersh - 1409
..................... 8 Margaret le Despenser - 1415
........................... +Robert de Ferrers 1357 -
........................ 9 Edmund de Ferrers
........................... 10 Margaret de Ferrers
................................. +John Beauchamp
.............................. 11 Richard Beauchamp
.................................. 12 Anne Beauchamp 1475 - 1535
........................................ +Richard Lygon 1477 - 1512
..................................... 13 Richard Lygon 1491 - 1557
........................................... +Margaret Greville
........................................ 14 Anne Lygon
.............................................. +Christopher Savage - 1546
........................................... 15 Bridget Savage 1540 - 1608
................................................. +Anthony Bonner - 1580
.............................................. 16 Mary Bonner 1560 - 1617
.................................................... +William Yonge - 1583
.................................................. 17 Bridget Yonge 1580 -
........................................................ +George Wyllys 1591
- 1644/45
..................................................... 18 Amy Wyllys 1625 -
1698/99
........................................................... +John Pynchon
1625 - 1702/03

Regards,
Charlie McNett

Gjest

Re: Gay Ancestry: Aline de Gay, wife of Alan Basset

Legg inn av Gjest » 16 apr 2005 16:41:02

I have found a conflict in reports. It has been said (by a source I can not
recall) that Hugh le Despenser who was married to Alianor de Clare was the
son of Hugh le Despenser and Isabella de Beauchamp. That is in conflict with
the recent on line reports that he was the son of Hugh le Despenser and Aline
Basset. Does anyone have an explanation?

Jno Kent

Randy Jones

Re: Gay Ancestry: Aline de Gay, wife of Alan Basset

Legg inn av Randy Jones » 16 apr 2005 18:50:02

See below:

CMcNett@aol.com wrote:

Hi,
DR suggested presenting lines from Aline de Gay to immigrant gateway
ancestors. The following may be found in PA3 and his recent writings on Gen-Medieval

Descendants of Aline Pipard

1 Aline Pipard
.... +Stephen de Gay

Are we missing a generation here?

Philip de Gai m. Sedzilla [Cecily] de Berkeley


.. 2 Aline de Gay
........ +Alan Bassett
..... 3 Phillip Bassett
........ 4 Aline Basset 1241 -
.............. +Hugh le Despenser

I believe Hugh "the younger" (1290-1326) married Alianor below and that his father Hugh "the elder" (1261-1326) who married Isabel de Beauchamp was the son of the generation above. Or do I have this wrong?


........... 5 Hugh le Despenser 1260/61 - 1326
................. +Alianor de Clare 1292-1337
.............. 6 Edward le Despenser - 1342
.................... +Anne de Ferrers - 1367
.................. 7 Edward le Despenser 1335/36 - 1375
........................ +Elizabeth de Burghersh - 1409
..................... 8 Margaret le Despenser - 1415
........................... +Robert de Ferrers 1357 -
........................ 9 Edmund de Ferrers
........................... 10 Margaret de Ferrers
................................. +John Beauchamp
.............................. 11 Richard Beauchamp
.................................. 12 Anne Beauchamp 1475 - 1535
........................................ +Richard Lygon 1477 - 1512
..................................... 13 Richard Lygon 1491 - 1557
........................................... +Margaret Greville
........................................ 14 Anne Lygon
.............................................. +Christopher Savage - 1546
........................................... 15 Bridget Savage 1540 - 1608
................................................. +Anthony Bonner - 1580
.............................................. 16 Mary Bonner 1560 - 1617
.................................................... +William Yonge - 1583
.................................................. 17 Bridget Yonge 1580 -
........................................................ +George Wyllys 1591
- 1644/45
..................................................... 18 Amy Wyllys 1625 -
1698/99
........................................................... +John Pynchon
1625 - 1702/03

Regards,
Charlie McNett




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roger_tansey@ksg04.harvar

Re: Gay Ancestry: Aline de Gay, wife of Alan Basset

Legg inn av roger_tansey@ksg04.harvar » 16 apr 2005 19:47:35

Dear Mr. Richardson, et al,

In addition to descents through Philip and Aline Basset, I show a
descent to Robert Abell through Hawise Basset, daughter of
Alan Basset and Aline de Gay. I have Hawise as the wife of William III
de Lanvallei, lord of Stanway Castle. William d. 1217. See Weis,
Magna Carta Sureties, line 55-1. If I am mistaken, I trust someone
will be kind enough to correct me.

Best wishes,

Roger





Douglas Richardson royalancestry@msn.com wrote:

<snip> >


By the way, it would be great if newsgroup members could post their
descent from Aline de Gay, wife of Alan Basset, down to an immigrant
gateway ancestor. Aline de Gay has modern descendants through three
of
her children: (1) Sir Philip Basset (ancestor of the Despenser
family);
(2) Aline (wife of Drew de Montagu, Richard Talbot, and Nicholas de
Yatingdon); and (3) Katherine (wife of John Lovel). If we look for
it,
I bet we all have Gay ancestry.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net

Gordon Kirkemo

RE: Gay Ancestry: Aline de Gay, wife of Alan Basset

Legg inn av Gordon Kirkemo » 17 apr 2005 08:41:02

Randy,

If Charlie had not mentioned it in his separate response, I would have
missed your identification of Sedzilla (Cecily) de Berkeley as the wife of
Philip de Gai. As this is the first time I've seen her identified as a de
Berkeley, I'm wondering what your source is? Also, can you identify her
parentage?

Thanks,
Gordon Kirkemo

-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Jones [mailto:randyj2222@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 9:41 AM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Gay Ancestry: Aline de Gay, wife of Alan Basset

See below:

CMcNett@aol.com wrote:

Hi,
DR suggested presenting lines from Aline de Gay to immigrant gateway
ancestors. The following may be found in PA3 and his recent writings on
Gen-Medieval

Descendants of Aline Pipard

1 Aline Pipard
.... +Stephen de Gay

Are we missing a generation here?

Philip de Gai m. Sedzilla [Cecily] de Berkeley


.. 2 Aline de Gay
........ +Alan Bassett
..... 3 Phillip Bassett
........ 4 Aline Basset 1241 -
.............. +Hugh le Despenser

I believe Hugh "the younger" (1290-1326) married Alianor below and that his
father Hugh "the elder" (1261-1326) who married Isabel de Beauchamp was the
son of the generation above. Or do I have this wrong?


........... 5 Hugh le Despenser 1260/61 - 1326
................. +Alianor de Clare 1292-1337
.............. 6 Edward le Despenser - 1342
.................... +Anne de Ferrers - 1367
.................. 7 Edward le Despenser 1335/36 - 1375
........................ +Elizabeth de Burghersh - 1409
..................... 8 Margaret le Despenser - 1415
........................... +Robert de Ferrers 1357 -
........................ 9 Edmund de Ferrers
........................... 10 Margaret de Ferrers
................................. +John Beauchamp
.............................. 11 Richard Beauchamp
.................................. 12 Anne Beauchamp 1475 - 1535
........................................ +Richard Lygon 1477 - 1512
..................................... 13 Richard Lygon 1491 - 1557
........................................... +Margaret Greville
........................................ 14 Anne Lygon
.............................................. +Christopher Savage - 1546
........................................... 15 Bridget Savage 1540 - 1608
................................................. +Anthony Bonner - 1580
.............................................. 16 Mary Bonner 1560 - 1617
.................................................... +William Yonge - 1583
.................................................. 17 Bridget Yonge 1580 -
........................................................ +George Wyllys 1591
- 1644/45
..................................................... 18 Amy Wyllys 1625 -
1698/99
........................................................... +John Pynchon
1625 - 1702/03

Regards,
Charlie McNett




---------------------------------
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Gjest

Re: Gay Ancestry: Aline de Gay, wife of Alan Basset

Legg inn av Gjest » 18 apr 2005 00:51:01

Thank you for this extra info on descents, as I've now been able to find a
second descent of myself from Aline de Gay as follows

1 Aline de Gay mar Alan Basset
2 Philip Basset
3 Aline Basset, Countess of Norfolk mar Hugh le Despencer -4 Aug 1265 Evesham
4 Hugh le Despencer 1260/1-1326 mar Isabel of Beauchamp

At this next step I descend from two children of this couple
5A Hugh le Despencer, Earl of Winchester d 28 Nov 1326 mar Alianor de Clare
5B Isabel le Despencer mar John 1262-1312/3, 1st Baron Hastings

Will Johnson

Douglas Richardson royala

Re: Gay Ancestry: Aline de Gay, wife of Alan Basset

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson royala » 18 apr 2005 03:26:04

Dear Roger ~

I believe that William de Lanvalay's wife was actually Maud Pecche,
daughter of Gilbert Pecche, of Great Bealings, Suffolk, by Alice,
daughter of Walter Fitz Robert, of Little Dunmow, Essex [see Moore,
Cartularium monasterii Sancti Johannis Baptiste de Colecestria (1897)].
Maud (Pecche) de Lanvalay has royal ancestry through her mother's
family, the Fitz Robert family.

If correct, then you would lose this particular Basset-Gay connection.
However, Robert Abell possesses another valid descent from the Basset
and Gay families in his ancestry.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net


roger_tansey@ksg04.harvard.edu wrote:
Dear Mr. Richardson, et al,

In addition to descents through Philip and Aline Basset, I show a
descent to Robert Abell through Hawise Basset, daughter of
Alan Basset and Aline de Gay. I have Hawise as the wife of William
III
de Lanvallei, lord of Stanway Castle. William d. 1217. See Weis,
Magna Carta Sureties, line 55-1. If I am mistaken, I trust someone
will be kind enough to correct me.

Best wishes,

Roger





Douglas Richardson royalancestry@msn.com wrote:

snip


By the way, it would be great if newsgroup members could post their
descent from Aline de Gay, wife of Alan Basset, down to an
immigrant
gateway ancestor. Aline de Gay has modern descendants through
three
of
her children: (1) Sir Philip Basset (ancestor of the Despenser
family);
(2) Aline (wife of Drew de Montagu, Richard Talbot, and Nicholas de
Yatingdon); and (3) Katherine (wife of John Lovel). If we look for
it,
I bet we all have Gay ancestry.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net

R. Battle

Re: Gay Ancestry: Aline de Gay, wife of Alan Basset

Legg inn av R. Battle » 18 apr 2005 19:52:58

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005, Peter Stewart wrote:
<snip>
This "ancient" deed is given by Reedy, as no. 242 on p. 164 - "Alanus
Basseth et Alina de Gai uxor ipsius". In a note to this the editor states:

"Alan was married to his first wife Alice into Easter term 1205...He married
Aline de Gay sometime before 16 April 1206 [when another charter, Reedy's
no. 100 on p. 54, named "Alanum Basset et Alinam uxorem suam"]...Aline was
still alive on 10 June 1229...She d. before 22 April 1230...It is just
possible that Alice ["de Gray"] was the same person as Aline, but if so the
hand suggests early 13th cent. as early limit. See V.C.H. Wilts. ix, 192."

Can someone tell us what the VCH reference has to say about this?

Since no one else has apparently looked this up yet, I did so but found
nothing there that mentions anything relative to any Basset marriages
prior to the Basset-le Despenser one. Perhaps the "see" direction was for
general facts about the Wootton manor rather than Alan's marriage(s). It
does not appear to be Reedy's source for Alan Basset's purported first
marriage.

-Robert Battle

Douglas Richardson royala

Re: Gay Ancestry: Aline de Gay, wife of Alan Basset

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson royala » 18 apr 2005 20:05:06

Thank you, Robert. I appreciate your input in the discussion.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net

R. Battle wrote:
On Fri, 15 Apr 2005, Peter Stewart wrote:
snip
This "ancient" deed is given by Reedy, as no. 242 on p. 164 -
"Alanus
Basseth et Alina de Gai uxor ipsius". In a note to this the editor
states:

"Alan was married to his first wife Alice into Easter term
1205...He married
Aline de Gay sometime before 16 April 1206 [when another charter,
Reedy's
no. 100 on p. 54, named "Alanum Basset et Alinam uxorem
suam"]...Aline was
still alive on 10 June 1229...She d. before 22 April 1230...It is
just
possible that Alice ["de Gray"] was the same person as Aline, but
if so the
hand suggests early 13th cent. as early limit. See V.C.H. Wilts.
ix, 192."

Can someone tell us what the VCH reference has to say about this?

Since no one else has apparently looked this up yet, I did so but
found
nothing there that mentions anything relative to any Basset marriages

prior to the Basset-le Despenser one. Perhaps the "see" direction
was for
general facts about the Wootton manor rather than Alan's marriage(s).
It
does not appear to be Reedy's source for Alan Basset's purported
first
marriage.

-Robert Battle

Peter Stewart

Re: Gay Ancestry: Aline de Gay, wife of Alan Basset

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 19 apr 2005 01:29:19

Robert Battle wrote:

Since no one else has apparently looked this up yet, I did so but
found nothing there that mentions anything relative to any Basset
marriages prior to the Basset-le Despenser one. Perhaps the "see"
direction was for general facts about the Wootton manor rather than
Alan's marriage(s). It does not appear to be Reedy's source for Alan
Basset's purported first marriage.

Thanks, Robert. Can you confirm that nothing is indicated about the
transmission of Wootton from the Gai family to Philip Basset and his
descendants? It could be useful to know if Reedy had definitely taken
information along those lines into consideration, in the absence (here
at least) of specific facts regarding his father's marriage/s.

Peter Stewart

R. Battle

Re: Gay Ancestry: Aline de Gay, wife of Alan Basset

Legg inn av R. Battle » 19 apr 2005 02:16:32

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005, Peter Stewart wrote:
<snip>
Thanks, Robert. Can you confirm that nothing is indicated about the
transmission of Wootton from the Gai family to Philip Basset and his
descendants? It could be useful to know if Reedy had definitely taken
information along those lines into consideration, in the absence (here
at least) of specific facts regarding his father's marriage/s.

I can confirm that nothing is indicated about the Gai family at all in
this section (let alone this page); and there are no Gais (of whatever
spelling), or the right Grays/Greys, in the index to this volume. There
are only brief mentions of Alan Basset and Gilbert Basset, and certainly
nothing that could be construed to logically bear on the identity of any
Basset wives. I quickly read through the entire section on Wootton
Bassett (pp. 186-205) in the chance that the page may have been miscited,
but there appears to be nothing there either that bears on the question at
hand.

-Robert Battle

Douglas Richardson royala

Re: Gay Ancestry: Aline de Gay, wife of Alan Basset

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson royala » 21 apr 2005 16:46:50

roger_tansey@ksg04.harvard.edu wrote:
Indeed! Thanks again.....

Roger

You're quite welcome, Roger.

DR

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