Beckwith lineage

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Lockehead

Beckwith lineage

Legg inn av Lockehead » 10 apr 2005 07:32:45

I am a newby, so please be gentle :) Two part question:

Part One: I am uncovering many questions about my Beckwith line which
supposedly goes back to Hugo De Malebisse. I started this search a few
years back when I came across a book called "Living Descendants of
Blood Royal in America". Now, after digging deeper, I am seeing
referrences that this is a "false" line. Can anyone comment on this ?

Part Two: Before I heard that this was a "false" line, I engaged one of
the Heralds at the College of Arms to do some research. His findings
were that the line was acceptable as far as armorial bearings were
concerned, but he found no proofs that George Beckwith (christened at
Featherstone Castle, Wilthsire-1605 d. London 1676) was the son of
Thomas Beckwith (b.1569 d. 1615) and Barbara Milbourne (d. 1644). All
of the reference books, including, "The Beckwiths" by Paul Beckwith
simply assume that George was the son of Thomas and Barbara. Can anyone
point me in the right direction toward proofs of this relationship?
Should I delete this family connection from my database?

Thank You,

Frank Locke

Gjest

Re: Beckwith lineage

Legg inn av Gjest » 10 apr 2005 09:00:03

Wouldn't his christening record include the names of his parents?
Will Johnson

In a message dated 4/9/2005 11:43:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
franklocke@mris.com writes:


he found no proofs that George Beckwith (christened at Featherstone Castle,
Wilthsire-1605 d. London 1676) was the son of Thomas Beckwith (b.1569 d.
1615) and Barbara Milbourne (d. 1644). "

Nathaniel Taylor

Re: Beckwith lineage (George Beckwith of Maryland)

Legg inn av Nathaniel Taylor » 10 apr 2005 14:37:59

In article <1113114765.766876.234970@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
"Lockehead" <franklocke@mris.com> wrote:

I am a newby, so please be gentle :) Two part question:

Part One: I am uncovering many questions about my Beckwith line which
supposedly goes back to Hugo De Malebisse. I started this search a few
years back when I came across a book called "Living Descendants of
Blood Royal in America". Now, after digging deeper, I am seeing
referrences that this is a "false" line. Can anyone comment on this ?

Part Two: Before I heard that this was a "false" line, I engaged one of
the Heralds at the College of Arms to do some research. His findings
were that the line was acceptable as far as armorial bearings were
concerned, but he found no proofs that George Beckwith (christened at
Featherstone Castle, Wilthsire-1605 d. London 1676) was the son of
Thomas Beckwith (b.1569 d. 1615) and Barbara Milbourne (d. 1644). All
of the reference books, including, "The Beckwiths" by Paul Beckwith
simply assume that George was the son of Thomas and Barbara. Can anyone
point me in the right direction toward proofs of this relationship?
Should I delete this family connection from my database?

Are you talking about George Beckwith of St. Mary's County, Maryland? As
you posted yesterday to the Beckwith Family Genealogy forum
(genealogy.com), the first thing is to prove that the Maryland man is
the one connected to a particular baptism record in 1605, with
particular parents. What is the evidence for this? 95% of claimed
English lines begin with the wishful assumption of a particular identity
for an American immigrant whose origin cannot actually be proved. Even
if the assumed identity cannot be disproved, it is more than likely to
have derived from wishful thinking--finding a man of the same name
mentioned in a visitation pedigree--than to be based on any
independently verifiable fact or tradition worthy of credence.

Where was his ancestry first claimed in print--perhaps before the
publication of the _Living Descendants of Blood Royal_ volume, but
perhaps not? What do various compilers of early Maryland families (e.g.
Harry Wright Newman) have to say about him?

Nat Taylor

a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/

Lockehead

Re: Beckwith lineage (George Beckwith of Maryland)

Legg inn av Lockehead » 10 apr 2005 21:15:47

Nathaniel Taylor wrote:
In article <1113114765.766876.234970@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
"Lockehead" <franklocke@mris.com> wrote:

I am a newby, so please be gentle :) Two part question:

Part One: I am uncovering many questions about my Beckwith line
which
supposedly goes back to Hugo De Malebisse. I started this search a
few
years back when I came across a book called "Living Descendants of
Blood Royal in America". Now, after digging deeper, I am seeing
referrences that this is a "false" line. Can anyone comment on this
?

Part Two: Before I heard that this was a "false" line, I engaged
one of
the Heralds at the College of Arms to do some research. His
findings
were that the line was acceptable as far as armorial bearings were
concerned, but he found no proofs that George Beckwith (christened
at
Featherstone Castle, Wilthsire-1605 d. London 1676) was the son of
Thomas Beckwith (b.1569 d. 1615) and Barbara Milbourne (d. 1644).
All
of the reference books, including, "The Beckwiths" by Paul Beckwith
simply assume that George was the son of Thomas and Barbara. Can
anyone
point me in the right direction toward proofs of this relationship?
Should I delete this family connection from my database?

Are you talking about George Beckwith of St. Mary's County, Maryland?
As
you posted yesterday to the Beckwith Family Genealogy forum
(genealogy.com), the first thing is to prove that the Maryland man is

the one connected to a particular baptism record in 1605, with
particular parents. What is the evidence for this? 95% of claimed
English lines begin with the wishful assumption of a particular
identity
for an American immigrant whose origin cannot actually be proved.
Even
if the assumed identity cannot be disproved, it is more than likely
to
have derived from wishful thinking--finding a man of the same name
mentioned in a visitation pedigree--than to be based on any
independently verifiable fact or tradition worthy of credence.

Where was his ancestry first claimed in print--perhaps before the
publication of the _Living Descendants of Blood Royal_ volume, but
perhaps not? What do various compilers of early Maryland families
(e.g.
Harry Wright Newman) have to say about him?

Nat Taylor

a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/

Nat-

Thank you for your response. The first claim of this lineage that I
have found is in Paul Beckwith's book, "The Beckwiths" self-published
in 1891. Harry Wright Newman said that he met with a genealogist by the
name of Mr. Adams who questioned the claims of the George Beckwith
line.Timothy Field Beard says that the claim through the Baskerville
family is tenuous at best. This was the first clue that all my work
could be for naught. I guess that I am just grasping at straws.

Todd A. Farmerie

Re: Beckwith lineage (George Beckwith of Maryland)

Legg inn av Todd A. Farmerie » 10 apr 2005 21:27:55

Lockehead wrote:
Thank you for your response. The first claim of this lineage that I
have found is in Paul Beckwith's book, "The Beckwiths" self-published
in 1891. Harry Wright Newman said that he met with a genealogist by the
name of Mr. Adams who questioned the claims of the George Beckwith
line.Timothy Field Beard says that the claim through the Baskerville
family is tenuous at best. This was the first clue that all my work
could be for naught. I guess that I am just grasping at straws.

It would help if you would post the line as you have it, so we all have
a better idea what you are talking about and can give more directed
analysis.

taf

Lockehead

Re: Beckwith lineage (George Beckwith of Maryland)

Legg inn av Lockehead » 11 apr 2005 03:54:23

Nat-

I went back to my copy of "The Flowering of the Maryland Palatinate"
to see what else Harry Wright Newman said about George Beckwith.
Apparently, his meeting with Mr. Adams took place after the publishing
of this book. In it he writes, "George Beckwith, who is belived to be
of the squirarchy of that Yorkshire family, certainly his culture and
style of life indicate such......" Newman also refers to him as "George
Beckwith, Esq"

Lockehead

Re: Beckwith lineage

Legg inn av Lockehead » 11 apr 2005 03:56:45

Will-

Thank you for your response. I am not sure if the record would show
the parents back in the early 1600's. I will try to check the Yorkshire
parish records to find out. Thank you for the suggestion.

Lockehead

Re: Beckwith lineage (George Beckwith of Maryland)

Legg inn av Lockehead » 11 apr 2005 05:03:23

Todd-

Thank you for responding. O.K., here goes:

1.)George Beckwith (bap. 1606 d. 1676) (son of)

2.)Thomas Beckwith (b.1569 d.1615) who married
Barbara Milbourne (d. 1644) (son of)

3.)Thomas Beckwith who married
Frances Frost (son of)

4.)Marmaduke Beckwith who married
Anne Dyneley (son of)

5.)Robert Beckwith who married
Jennet _____________ (son of)

6.)John Beckwith (son of)

7.)Robert Beckwith (son of)

8.)John Beckwith who married
Daughter of Sir Thomas Radcliffe (son of)

9.)Thomas Beckwith (d. 1495) who married
Daughter of Sir William Heslerton (son of)

10.)William Beckwith (b. 1425 d. 1500) who married
Daughter of Sir John Baskerville (son of)

11.)Adam Beckwith who married
Elizabeth De Malebisse (son of)

12.)Thomas Beckwith who married
Daughter of John Sawley (son of)

13.)William Beckwith who married
Daughter of Sir Gerard Usfleet (son of)

14.)Hamon Beckwith who married
Daughter of Sir Philip Tynley (son of)

15.)Nicholas Beckwith who married
Daughter of Sir John Chaworth (son of)

16.) Sir Hercules Beckwith who married
Daughter of Sir John De Ferrers (son of)

17.)Sir Hurcules Malebisse who married
Daughter of Sir William Bruce (son of)

18.)Hugo De Malebisse who married
Emma De Percy (son of)

19.)Hugo De Malebisse

*note: the daughter of Sir William Bruce somehow had "Beckwith"
attached to her name, and that name was supposedly taken by Hugo De
Malebisse.

Todd A. Farmerie

Re: Beckwith lineage (George Beckwith of Maryland)

Legg inn av Todd A. Farmerie » 11 apr 2005 09:07:38

Lockehead wrote:
Todd-

Thank you for responding. O.K., here goes:

1.)George Beckwith (bap. 1606 d. 1676) (son of)

2.)Thomas Beckwith (b.1569 d.1615) who married
Barbara Milbourne (d. 1644) (son of)

This connection is being discussed elsewhere, but in connecting the
immigrant to a European family is where most royal descents fail.

3.)Thomas Beckwith who married
Frances Frost (son of)

4.)Marmaduke Beckwith who married
Anne Dyneley (son of)

5.)Robert Beckwith who married
Jennet _____________ (son of)

6.)John Beckwith (son of)

7.)Robert Beckwith (son of)

8.)John Beckwith who married
Daughter of Sir Thomas Radcliffe (son of)

OK, it probably breaks before this point. Patterns like this are common
in forged pediigrees - you have several generations where either only
the wife's first name is known, or no wife is known at all, then
suddenly as you move back, every wife is daughter of a high-gentry or
noble family. It usually means that the genealogist got back that far,
then started inventing. I don't think anything prior to this point is
of value - certainly from 13-19 look like they are invention, and I
wouldn't trust anything prior to gen 7 (if that) if I were you.

9.)Thomas Beckwith (d. 1495) who married
Daughter of Sir William Heslerton (son of)

10.)William Beckwith (b. 1425 d. 1500) who married
Daughter of Sir John Baskerville (son of)

11.)Adam Beckwith who married
Elizabeth De Malebisse (son of)

12.)Thomas Beckwith who married
Daughter of John Sawley (son of)

13.)William Beckwith who married
Daughter of Sir Gerard Usfleet (son of)

14.)Hamon Beckwith who married
Daughter of Sir Philip Tynley (son of)

15.)Nicholas Beckwith who married
Daughter of Sir John Chaworth (son of)

16.) Sir Hercules Beckwith who married
Daughter of Sir John De Ferrers (son of)

17.)Sir Hurcules Malebisse who married
Daughter of Sir William Bruce (son of)

18.)Hugo De Malebisse who married
Emma De Percy (son of)

19.)Hugo De Malebisse

*note: the daughter of Sir William Bruce somehow had "Beckwith"
attached to her name, and that name was supposedly taken by Hugo De
Malebisse.

taf

Lockehead

Re: Beckwith lineage (George Beckwith of Maryland)

Legg inn av Lockehead » 11 apr 2005 16:54:14

Todd A. Farmerie wrote:
Lockehead wrote:
Todd-

Thank you for responding. O.K., here goes:

1.)George Beckwith (bap. 1606 d. 1676) (son of)

2.)Thomas Beckwith (b.1569 d.1615) who married
Barbara Milbourne (d. 1644) (son of)

This connection is being discussed elsewhere, but in connecting the
immigrant to a European family is where most royal descents fail.

3.)Thomas Beckwith who married
Frances Frost (son of)

4.)Marmaduke Beckwith who married
Anne Dyneley (son of)

5.)Robert Beckwith who married
Jennet _____________ (son of)

6.)John Beckwith (son of)

7.)Robert Beckwith (son of)

8.)John Beckwith who married
Daughter of Sir Thomas Radcliffe (son of)

OK, it probably breaks before this point. Patterns like this are
common
in forged pediigrees - you have several generations where either only

the wife's first name is known, or no wife is known at all, then
suddenly as you move back, every wife is daughter of a high-gentry or

noble family. It usually means that the genealogist got back that
far,
then started inventing. I don't think anything prior to this point
is
of value - certainly from 13-19 look like they are invention, and I
wouldn't trust anything prior to gen 7 (if that) if I were you.

9.)Thomas Beckwith (d. 1495) who married
Daughter of Sir William Heslerton (son of)

10.)William Beckwith (b. 1425 d. 1500) who married
Daughter of Sir John Baskerville (son of)

11.)Adam Beckwith who married
Elizabeth De Malebisse (son of)

12.)Thomas Beckwith who married
Daughter of John Sawley (son of)

13.)William Beckwith who married
Daughter of Sir Gerard Usfleet (son of)

14.)Hamon Beckwith who married
Daughter of Sir Philip Tynley (son of)

15.)Nicholas Beckwith who married
Daughter of Sir John Chaworth (son of)

16.) Sir Hercules Beckwith who married
Daughter of Sir John De Ferrers (son of)

17.)Sir Hurcules Malebisse who married
Daughter of Sir William Bruce (son of)

18.)Hugo De Malebisse who married
Emma De Percy (son of)

19.)Hugo De Malebisse

*note: the daughter of Sir William Bruce somehow had "Beckwith"
attached to her name, and that name was supposedly taken by Hugo De
Malebisse.

taf

Todd-

Thank you for taking a look at this. The more researchers point out
these errors in the line, the more I am beginning to think that it is a
case a wishful thinking. Too bad

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