Marie the Rich

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Leo van de Pas

Marie the Rich

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 07 apr 2005 02:01:02

What was her title?

She was the only child and heir of Charles the Bold, Duke of Burgundy and inherited many territories from her father. I understand that as Burgundy was a Royal apanage it had to return to the French crown but I have seen her referred to as Duchess of Burgundy which, I think, is incorrect. Can anyone tell?
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

Gjest

Re: Marie the Rich

Legg inn av Gjest » 07 apr 2005 09:51:27

Yes she was Duchess of Burgundy, and passed that title onto her son
Philip. He in turn passed it n to his son Emperor Charles V

John

Leo van de Pas

Re: Marie the Rich

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 07 apr 2005 11:31:01

She could not have been Duchess of Burgundy as that Duchy could not pass to
females.
The French took Burgundy back and that was a problem that lasted a few
generations,
causing wars with Charles V but in the end the French kept Burgundy. Marie
did not have any_ rights_ to_that_title but she did have rights to plenty
others.
Leo

----- Original Message -----
From: <jonky@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: Marie the Rich


Yes she was Duchess of Burgundy, and passed that title onto her son
Philip. He in turn passed it n to his son Emperor Charles V

John


Leo van de Pas

Re: Marie the Rich

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 07 apr 2005 14:11:02

Dear John,

I understand that when Charles the Bold/the Rash was killed in battle, the French army took possession of Burgundy and kept it.

This is what I found in "Prince of The Renaissance, the Life of Francois I" by Desmond Seward.

Page 118 in 1522 Emperor Charles V demanded Burgundy, Champagne, Dauphiné, Provence and Languedoc.
Page 125 in 1523 traitor Charles de Bourbon in a secret treaty with Charles V offers him Burgundy
Page 138 An imperial envoy advises Francois I that Charles V demands Burgundy to be returned to him.
Page 140 January 1526 in the Treaty of Madrid Francois promises to give Burgundy (but doesn't)
Page 150 At the Ladies Peace of Cambrai on 3 August 1529 Charles V gave up his claim to Burgundy.

Marie may have assumed the title of Duchess of Burgundy, but did not have possession of the duchy and as I understand did not have a right to it as it had to be returned to the crown as had other apanages in the past.

Leo



----- Original Message -----
From: Jonky@aol.com
To: leovdpas@netspeed.com.au ; Gen-Medieval-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: Marie the Rich


Are you talking about Marie, daughter of Charles the Bold? If so, she and her husband Maximilian of Austria indeed inherited Burgundy , and after her death in 1482 it went to their son Philip, then on to his son (by Juana of Castile), the future Charles V in 1506.

I am not sure about the legalities, but Charles remained in possession of the territories which became the Spanish Netherlands (modern-day Belgium and Holland). The French did not re-gain any of this until Napoleon. But I am not sure about the other Burgundian possessions.

John

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