Jean Plaidy

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Jean Plaidy

Legg inn av Gjest » 26 mar 2005 02:51:01

Of late I have read several novels by one Jean Plaidy, which is a pseudonym
I understand. Her writing makes the history very interesting. I perfectly
understand that much in these novels is created in the authors imagination but
does anyone have an idea of how accurate her historiy is?

I do enjoy the novels but if they are full of false information I don't
really want to continue with them.

Gordon Hale
Grand Prairie, Texas

Leo van de Pas

Re: Jean Plaidy

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 26 mar 2005 05:40:01

Dear Gordon,

I understand that Jean Plaidy and Victoria Holt are one and the same person.
I was told she spend some ten years collecting historical data. Facts like
who was where and so on.
I believe her stories are pretty good history, who said what is made up of
course, but if she mentions happenings they happened. She built up quite a
collection of information and after her death the British Museum (I think)
had asked her to bequeath it all to them.
Leo

----- Original Message -----
From: <GRHaleJr@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 12:46 PM
Subject: Jean Plaidy


Of late I have read several novels by one Jean Plaidy, which is a
pseudonym
I understand. Her writing makes the history very interesting. I
perfectly
understand that much in these novels is created in the authors
imagination but
does anyone have an idea of how accurate her historiy is?

I do enjoy the novels but if they are full of false information I don't
really want to continue with them.

Gordon Hale
Grand Prairie, Texas



Gjest

Re: Jean Plaidy

Legg inn av Gjest » 26 mar 2005 14:30:02

Dear Leo et als,
Didn`t the late Victoria Holt also use the pen name
Philippa Carr ?
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA

Betty Owen

Re: Jean Plaidy

Legg inn av Betty Owen » 26 mar 2005 15:41:02

Yes James she did
If you all would like to know more about the author and her writing and a
little bio try this link...
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/8078/holt.html
Betty
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jwc1870@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: Jean Plaidy


Dear Leo et als,
Didn`t the late Victoria Holt also use the pen name
Philippa Carr ?
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA



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Cece

Re: Jean Plaidy

Legg inn av Cece » 26 mar 2005 17:02:50

GRHaleJr@aol.com wrote in message news:<ae.6ed7ecd7.2f761912@aol.com>...
Of late I have read several novels by one Jean Plaidy, which is a pseudonym
I understand. Her writing makes the history very interesting. I perfectly
understand that much in these novels is created in the authors imagination but
does anyone have an idea of how accurate her historiy is?

I do enjoy the novels but if they are full of false information I don't
really want to continue with them.

Gordon Hale
Grand Prairie, Texas

Jean Plaidy may have done a lot of research, but it can't be proven by
what she wrote. Her books are chock-full of errors.

Some years back, she wrote a series on English monarchs. I read the
first two (borrowed from the library) and quit. She changed names for
no reason -- I mean, when you've got three people named Edward and
three named Henry, why not change one or more of those names instead
of changing the one Richard for Edmund? (or something like that -- it
was a long time ago). People who were noted as being in a certain
city at a certain date were often noted as being elsewhere on that
date in any popular history book.

Most "historical" novels by romance authors have incorrect notions of
the law and the sociology of the time. Plaidy's (and Holt's)
included.

Do not read Plaidy expecting to learn anything about the history or
the society.

Cece

Tony Hoskins

Re: Jean Plaidy

Legg inn av Tony Hoskins » 26 mar 2005 18:31:02

Do not read Plaidy expecting to learn anything about the history or
the society.


I competely agree. Though Ms Plaidy/Holt spun good yarns - often not
entirely divorced from fact - for serious historians they present real
problems and are for that reason sometimes make painful reading.
Additional caveats extend to other writers too frequently wrongly
considered "historians" like Antonia Fraser and Alison Weir. Not to
mention the likes of Philippa Gregory.




Anthony Hoskins
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
History and Genealogy Library
Sonoma County Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404

707/545-0831, ext. 562

Betty Owen

Re: Jean Plaidy

Legg inn av Betty Owen » 26 mar 2005 19:30:02

Cece,
What u say may be true about her writing and errors... Although they were
romanitcally inclined they were not considered true romance... Please
remember sometimes fiction is excatly that fiction writing...

However, having read some fiction stories I will go after ward and seek the
truth of the era....

Betty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cece" <ceceliaarmstrong@yahoo.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: Jean Plaidy


GRHaleJr@aol.com wrote in message news:<ae.6ed7ecd7.2f761912@aol.com>...
Of late I have read several novels by one Jean Plaidy, which is a
pseudonym
I understand. Her writing makes the history very interesting. I
perfectly
understand that much in these novels is created in the authors
imagination but
does anyone have an idea of how accurate her historiy is?

I do enjoy the novels but if they are full of false information I don't
really want to continue with them.

Gordon Hale
Grand Prairie, Texas

Jean Plaidy may have done a lot of research, but it can't be proven by
what she wrote. Her books are chock-full of errors.

Some years back, she wrote a series on English monarchs. I read the
first two (borrowed from the library) and quit. She changed names for
no reason -- I mean, when you've got three people named Edward and
three named Henry, why not change one or more of those names instead
of changing the one Richard for Edmund? (or something like that -- it
was a long time ago). People who were noted as being in a certain
city at a certain date were often noted as being elsewhere on that
date in any popular history book.

Most "historical" novels by romance authors have incorrect notions of
the law and the sociology of the time. Plaidy's (and Holt's)
included.

Do not read Plaidy expecting to learn anything about the history or
the society.

Cece



--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.3 - Release Date: 3/25/2005


Leo van de Pas

Re: Jean Plaidy

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 27 mar 2005 00:21:01

I think so.
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jwc1870@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: Jean Plaidy


Dear Leo et als,
Didn`t the late Victoria Holt also use the pen
name
Philippa Carr ?
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA



Rick Eaton

Re: Jean Plaidy

Legg inn av Rick Eaton » 27 mar 2005 01:11:01

I'm trying to remember high school Latin, but isn't the plural of"et al"
"etalia?"

Just trying to get it right,

Rick

Dear Leo et als,
Didn`t the late Victoria Holt also use the pen name
Philippa Carr ?
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA

Rick Eaton

Et alia--Oops

Legg inn av Rick Eaton » 27 mar 2005 01:21:01

Et alia would be two words, not5 one, of course. My tupo and a bad time to
make one.

R

I'm trying to remember high school Latin, but isn't the plural of"et al"
"etalia?"

Just trying to get it right,

Rick

Dear Leo et als,
Didn`t the late Victoria Holt also use the pen name
Philippa Carr ?
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA


D. Spencer Hines

Re: Jean Plaidy

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 27 mar 2005 03:21:02

_ET ALIA_ is the form for "other things" -- NEUTER.

_ET ALII_ is the form for "other people" -- MASCULINE.

_ET ALIAE_ is the form for "other people" -- FEMININE.

James got confused.

DSH

"Rick Eaton" <eaton.noble@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:BE6B644E.27BB%eaton.noble@sbcglobal.net...

| I'm trying to remember high school Latin, but isn't the plural of"et
al"

| "etalia?"
|
| Just trying to get it right,
|
| Rick
|
| > Dear Leo et als,
| > Didn`t the late Victoria Holt also use the pen name
| > Philippa Carr ?
| > Sincerely,
| > James W Cummings
| > Dixmont, Maine USA

Gjest

Re: Jean Plaidy

Legg inn av Gjest » 27 mar 2005 05:15:03

Dear Spencer and others,
I`m afraid I`m not confused. I took it from
deed indices which at least here in Maine refer to more than one party buying
or selling a piece of property in that manner. I`m no latin scholar obviously,
I barely know the meaning of Ego, E Pluribus Unum or Semper Fi(delius), so in
future I shall use the words `and others` rather than mongrelized latin.
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA

Gjest

Re: Jean Plaidy

Legg inn av Gjest » 30 mar 2005 09:36:34

I beg to differ about Antonia Fraser and Alison Weir. I have found all
their works to be meticulously researchered and documented. I have
also read Jean Plaidy's novels, and enjoyed them for what they
are...but for a fiction writer, she researched them well.

John
San Diego

Renia

Re: Jean Plaidy

Legg inn av Renia » 01 apr 2005 07:34:28

Tony Hoskins wrote:

Do not read Plaidy expecting to learn anything about the history or

the society.

I competely agree. Though Ms Plaidy/Holt spun good yarns - often not
entirely divorced from fact - for serious historians they present real
problems and are for that reason sometimes make painful reading.
Additional caveats extend to other writers too frequently wrongly
considered "historians" like Antonia Fraser and Alison Weir. Not to
mention the likes of Philippa Gregory.


Jean Plaidy wrote under the pseudonyms Victoria Holt and Philippa Carr,
as others have said. Her historical research was meticulous, so much so,
that the British Museum now holds her card index. Though her work was
fiction, the historical events and people she portrayed were pretty
accurate. They are an excellent means of introducing history to novices
but in order to make them more interesting and readable, Plaidy
introduced romance where often there was none. As with any other
historian or historical writer, the history portrayed is a matter of
interpretation. Not all historians agree with other historians'
perceptions of events.

As to Antonia Fraser, she is a biographer, and one of the best in her
field, as was her mother, Elizabeth Longford, wife of the eccentric Lord
Longford. I have not read Alison Weir, but there are those who say her
research is also meticulous, but there are those on the medieval history
newsgroup who trash her work.

I have met Philippa Gregory, who prides herself on her historical research.

Renia

Tony Hoskins

Re: Jean Plaidy

Legg inn av Tony Hoskins » 01 apr 2005 20:10:02

"I have met Philippa Gregory, who prides herself on her historical
research."

She should therefore, it goes without saying, cite her sources. For
instance, my article, "Mary Boleyn's Carey Children: offspring of King
Henry VIII?", _Genealogists' Magazine_ (1997), without which important
ingredients (shall we say) of her tale would not almost certainly have
existed.

Antonia Fraser is indeed, as you say, "a biographer". But, as a
biographer, she also writes history. During my research on the Boleyn
article, she kindly corresponded with me. Through our correspondence I
discovered just what sort of historian she is - and observed in tight
focus her approach to historiography - which I concluded was not what I
nor any serious Tudor scholar I have known in the US or Britain would
have shared with her.

Anthony Hoskins
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
History and Genealogy Library
Sonoma County Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404

707/545-0831, ext. 562

Susan Hicks

Re: Jean Plaidy

Legg inn av Susan Hicks » 02 apr 2005 19:11:02

"I have met Philippa Gregory, who prides herself on her historical
research."

Hmmm, which includes , if I remember correctly from the list at the back of
The Other Boleyn Girl, the dreaded Alison Weir!

Some of Jean Plaidy's historical research was decidedly dodgy on the
Medieval side. Her novel about Stephen had Matilda for e.g. follows the
romantic but unlikely premise that the Empress Matilda and King Stephen were
lovers and that Henry II was their son. It's ages since I've read her, but I
do know that she wasn't always reliable. But then fiction is fiction and
there's always bound to be artistic leeway. What does bother me is when
works that are supposed to be factual start wandering over into fiction.
I've noticed this with 'popular' biographies. Marion Meade does it in her
bio of Eleanor of Aquitaine. The reader will suddenly get a description of
the sky or the glitter of the sun on the river, or be told what such and
such a character is feeling. While it might create a pretty word picture,
it's not dealing in fact but in fiction. Fine if you're writing a novel,
not so if it's supposed to be non fiction.

Susan,
who, as a historical novelist herself has met Philippa Gregory on several
occasions but has never got around to asking her about Alison Weir!

Gjest

Re: Jean Plaidy

Legg inn av Gjest » 04 apr 2005 12:11:21

For
instance, my article, "Mary Boleyn's Carey Children: offspring of King
Henry VIII?", _Genealogists' Magazine_

I liked Philippa Gregory's book on this, would love to read your
article. Can I find it on-line or order it? I have always been
fascinated at the possibility that Mary Boleyn's children were Henry's.

John
San Diego

Gjest

Re: Jean Plaidy

Legg inn av Gjest » 04 apr 2005 12:25:09

Ah, the "dreaded Alison Weir".....I think she wrote the most accurate
biography of Eleanor of Aquitaine. And I find all her studies to be
definitive. Am just finishing "Mary Queen of Scots and the Murder of
Darnley" now. I am no scholar, but have read everything I can find on
English history for over 40 years....Also her books on the Wars of the
Roses period. Not to mention her books on Henry VIII and his
children...

Antonia Fraser is another biographer I would like to defend, and her
daughter Flora as I just finished her bio of Queen Caroline. I am
awaiting her new one on George III's daughters.

I agree about Jean Plaidy's books though. I think for historical
novels they were well-researched, but of course she took license with
the facts and invented her scenes and dialogue....entertaining though,
and a good entry to history for the new reader.

So Susan, what have you written? Would like to check them out!

John

Doug McDonald

Re: Jean Plaidy

Legg inn av Doug McDonald » 04 apr 2005 17:05:01

GRHaleJr@aol.com wrote:

I am descended from Eddward II.
Does anyone know of any good assets of this King other than his refusal to
persecute the Templars?



Certainly ... he was not a terribly great warrior, and so lost
to the Bruce. That's a good thing.

I descend from both, and prefer the Bruce.

Doug McDonald

Gjest

Re: Jean Plaidy

Legg inn av Gjest » 04 apr 2005 18:00:02

I have finished two of the books by Jean Plaidy. I am now into one titled,
The Follies of the King, about Edward II.

I am descended from Eddward II.
Does anyone know of any good assets of this King other than his refusal to
persecute the Templars?

I have never read anything which reflected to his benefit. Surely the man
must have had some good qualities. No one, I believe, is completely evil or
completely good.

Gordon Hale
Grand Prairie, Texas

Gordon Banks

Re: Jean Plaidy

Legg inn av Gordon Banks » 04 apr 2005 22:04:24

Since his enemies triumphed and his friends were drawn and quartered, I
suppose no one was left who dared say what his good qualities were. I
guess we could say that he did have the capacity to love, which is
lacking in a lot of people.

Also, unlike the Bruce, he never murdered anyone (at least by his own hand.)

On Mon, 2005-04-04 at 11:58 -0400, GRHaleJr@aol.com wrote:
I have finished two of the books by Jean Plaidy. I am now into one titled,
The Follies of the King, about Edward II.

I am descended from Eddward II.
Does anyone know of any good assets of this King other than his refusal to
persecute the Templars?

I have never read anything which reflected to his benefit. Surely the man
must have had some good qualities. No one, I believe, is completely evil or
completely good.

Gordon Hale
Grand Prairie, Texas
--

Gordon Banks <geb@gordonbanks.com>

Susan Hicks

Re: Jean Plaidy

Legg inn av Susan Hicks » 06 apr 2005 17:31:01

John said:
So Susan, what have you written? Would like to check them out!

Hi John
I write Medieval fiction as Elizabeth Chadwick and I'm contracted to
TimeWarner in the UK. Here's my website so that you can see what I do.
http://www.elizabethchadwick.com

Best
Susan
The Greatest Knight: the story of William Marshal /TimeWarner November 2005
Shadows And Strongholds/TimeWarner July 2005 longlisted for Foster Grant RNA
Award
The Falcons of Montabard/St Martins 2004/RRT winner of best historical
fiction of 2004

Gjest

Re: Jean Plaidy

Legg inn av Gjest » 07 apr 2005 11:48:28

Susan,

Thank you, I have always been fascinated with William Marshal, and am
checking to see if Amazon has the book. The only really good fiction I
have ever read on 12th century England was "Pillars of the Earth" by
Ken Follett, and also Ellen Jones wrote some good ones as I recall.
Looking forward to yours!

John

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