Question about a given name ~ Sancie
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Gjest
Question about a given name ~ Sancie
The IPM of an ancestor, Henry Clitheroe [d. 16 Jul 1545] of London, gives
his wife's name as Sancie. This family and others they married into were
international in inclination; certain records describing them as merchants to
Muscovy, France, Portugal, and further east.
My question ~ Is it likely that Sancie is derived from the female Spanish
name Sancia? I have never encountered this name before this record. Thanks
for any comments.
his wife's name as Sancie. This family and others they married into were
international in inclination; certain records describing them as merchants to
Muscovy, France, Portugal, and further east.
My question ~ Is it likely that Sancie is derived from the female Spanish
name Sancia? I have never encountered this name before this record. Thanks
for any comments.
-
Tony Hoskins
Re: Question about a given name ~ Sancie
That would almost certainly be a variant for "Sancha".
Anthony Hoskins
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
History and Genealogy Library
Sonoma County Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404
707/545-0831, ext. 562
Anthony Hoskins
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
History and Genealogy Library
Sonoma County Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404
707/545-0831, ext. 562
-
Gjest
Re: Question about a given name ~ Sancie
My book on Christian names states it is the German form of the Spanish name
Sanchia meaning holy, the masculine form being Sancho as in Sancho Panza.
Adrian
Sanchia meaning holy, the masculine form being Sancho as in Sancho Panza.
Adrian
The IPM of an ancestor, Henry Clitheroe [d. 16 Jul 1545] of London, gives
his wife's name as Sancie. This family and others they married into were
international in inclination; certain records describing them as merchants
to
Muscovy, France, Portugal, and further east.
My question ~ Is it likely that Sancie is derived from the female Spanish
name Sancia? I have never encountered this name before this record.
Thanks
for any comments.
-
Steven C. Perkins
Re: Question about a given name ~ Sancie
Many Scots named Alexander are know as Sandy.
Regards,
Steven C. Perkins
At 04:18 PM 3/25/2005 +0100, you wrote:
Regards,
Steven C. Perkins
At 04:18 PM 3/25/2005 +0100, you wrote:
I know Ms Morlet's litterature and I may say she has a very poor
knowledge of languages, especially of the other languages (now or
formerly) in use in France.
The first name Sancho comes from a Spanish saint of the 9th Century.
The Latin form is Sancio.
The feminine is Sancha in Spanish, Sancia in Latin, Sancie in French.
My guess about the Alexander etymology is a misreading of Sandro,
Italian shortening of Alessandro...
Joan Frances Blanc
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 07:48:52 EST, PDeloriol@aol.com <PDeloriol@aol.com> wrote:
My French book of names by Th morlet, states that the name Sancie/Sancia/
Sancho and all its derivatives are the derivatives of
Alexander/ra/re....which
seems quite plausible as i know a few French men who are nicknamed
Sanche and
their full christian name is Alexandre - i also know it as a name on
its own -
Sanche de Grammont, aka Ted morgan, this name is after a distant
Franco/spanish
Ancestor.
regards
Peter de Loriol
-
Jean-François BLANC
Re: Question about a given name ~ Sancie
I know Ms Morlet's litterature and I may say she has a very poor
knowledge of languages, especially of the other languages (now or
formerly) in use in France.
The first name Sancho comes from a Spanish saint of the 9th Century.
The Latin form is Sancio.
The feminine is Sancha in Spanish, Sancia in Latin, Sancie in French.
My guess about the Alexander etymology is a misreading of Sandro,
Italian shortening of Alessandro...
Joan Frances Blanc
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 07:48:52 EST, PDeloriol@aol.com <PDeloriol@aol.com> wrote:
knowledge of languages, especially of the other languages (now or
formerly) in use in France.
The first name Sancho comes from a Spanish saint of the 9th Century.
The Latin form is Sancio.
The feminine is Sancha in Spanish, Sancia in Latin, Sancie in French.
My guess about the Alexander etymology is a misreading of Sandro,
Italian shortening of Alessandro...
Joan Frances Blanc
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 07:48:52 EST, PDeloriol@aol.com <PDeloriol@aol.com> wrote:
My French book of names by Th morlet, states that the name Sancie/Sancia/
Sancho and all its derivatives are the derivatives of Alexander/ra/re....which
seems quite plausible as i know a few French men who are nicknamed Sanche and
their full christian name is Alexandre - i also know it as a name on its own -
Sanche de Grammont, aka Ted morgan, this name is after a distant Franco/spanish
Ancestor.
regards
Peter de Loriol
-
Jean-François BLANC
Re: Question about a given name ~ Sancie
Another website gives us more details about the Sancho/Sancha/Sancie etymology:
either Germanic "sanths": true, just
or latin "sancire": to consacrate
JF Blanc
either Germanic "sanths": true, just
or latin "sancire": to consacrate
JF Blanc
-
Gjest
Re: Question about a given name ~ Sancie
_RootsWeb: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Re: Question about a given name ~ Sancie_
(http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GE ... 1111827951)
Thanks to everyone for their comments on the etymology of the name Sancie.
Since placing that original post I have come across some other records
spelling her name in even more variety: Seince, Seints, and Sence. I have also
identified her as a sister of Sir Christopher Draper, and therefore a daughter
of John Draper and Agnes Aynesworth.
(http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GE ... 1111827951)
Thanks to everyone for their comments on the etymology of the name Sancie.
Since placing that original post I have come across some other records
spelling her name in even more variety: Seince, Seints, and Sence. I have also
identified her as a sister of Sir Christopher Draper, and therefore a daughter
of John Draper and Agnes Aynesworth.
-
Gjest
Re: Question about a given name ~ Sancie
Todd,
do these people connect with the Henry Clitherow, London merchant,
whose daughter Margaret (d.1656) married in 1607 Sir Henry Gar(ra)way
(1575-1646), sometime mayor of London?
Thanks,
Matthew
do these people connect with the Henry Clitherow, London merchant,
whose daughter Margaret (d.1656) married in 1607 Sir Henry Gar(ra)way
(1575-1646), sometime mayor of London?
Thanks,
Matthew
-
Gjest
Re: Question about a given name ~ Sancie
_RootsWeb: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Re: Question about a given name ~ Sancie_
(http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GE ... 1112115684)
Matthew~
They do connect. Henry Clitheroe [d. 16 Jul 1545 Blessed Mary Woolchurch
Parish, London] and his wife Seince "Sancie" Draper had three sons and an
unknown number of daughters. The sons were:
1. Robert Clitheroe, eldest son, aged 6 years and more in 1545.
In 1559 he demised to his mother "Saint" all his portion of his father's
property.
2. Thomas Clitheroe, second son.
He was a legatee in the 1580 will of his uncle, Sir Christopher Draper of
London.
3. Henry Clitheroe, third son, Master of the Ironmongers Company.
He was also a legatee of his uncle Draper.
Died 20 Feb 1606/7 [buried 3 Mar 1606/7]
Married [his first wife] 5 Mar 1575/6 St Clement Eastcheap, London ~ Brigett
Hewett [christened 17 Apr 1557], daughter of Thomas Hewett [buried 5 Mar
1575/6] of London.
My line descends through Henry and Brigett's daughter, Anne Clitheroe, who
was christened 21 Dec 1576 at St Dunstan in the East, London.
Todd Whitesides
(http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GE ... 1112115684)
Matthew~
They do connect. Henry Clitheroe [d. 16 Jul 1545 Blessed Mary Woolchurch
Parish, London] and his wife Seince "Sancie" Draper had three sons and an
unknown number of daughters. The sons were:
1. Robert Clitheroe, eldest son, aged 6 years and more in 1545.
In 1559 he demised to his mother "Saint" all his portion of his father's
property.
2. Thomas Clitheroe, second son.
He was a legatee in the 1580 will of his uncle, Sir Christopher Draper of
London.
3. Henry Clitheroe, third son, Master of the Ironmongers Company.
He was also a legatee of his uncle Draper.
Died 20 Feb 1606/7 [buried 3 Mar 1606/7]
Married [his first wife] 5 Mar 1575/6 St Clement Eastcheap, London ~ Brigett
Hewett [christened 17 Apr 1557], daughter of Thomas Hewett [buried 5 Mar
1575/6] of London.
My line descends through Henry and Brigett's daughter, Anne Clitheroe, who
was christened 21 Dec 1576 at St Dunstan in the East, London.
Todd Whitesides
-
John Higgins
Re: Question about a given name ~ Sancie
This is very interesting and useful information on the Clitheroes. I would
add one clarification regarding Margaret, dau. of Henry Clitheroe, who m.
Sir Henry Garraway [or Garway]. My notes, based on a Clitheroe pedigree in
MGH 5th ser. 3:170, say that Margaret was a dau. of Henry Clitheroe by his
2nd wife Margaret, dau. of Nicholas Wheeler and widow of Joseph Turner, and
not the 1st wife Bridget Hewett mentioned below. Can you confirm this?
What is the source for the information below? Can either the Clitheroe or
the Draper ancestry be traced back further?
Thanks for posting this....
----- Original Message -----
From: <ToddWhitesides@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: Question about a given name ~ Sancie
add one clarification regarding Margaret, dau. of Henry Clitheroe, who m.
Sir Henry Garraway [or Garway]. My notes, based on a Clitheroe pedigree in
MGH 5th ser. 3:170, say that Margaret was a dau. of Henry Clitheroe by his
2nd wife Margaret, dau. of Nicholas Wheeler and widow of Joseph Turner, and
not the 1st wife Bridget Hewett mentioned below. Can you confirm this?
What is the source for the information below? Can either the Clitheroe or
the Draper ancestry be traced back further?
Thanks for posting this....
----- Original Message -----
From: <ToddWhitesides@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: Question about a given name ~ Sancie
_RootsWeb: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Re: Question about a given name ~ Sancie_
(http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GE ... 1112115684)
Matthew~
They do connect. Henry Clitheroe [d. 16 Jul 1545 Blessed Mary Woolchurch
Parish, London] and his wife Seince "Sancie" Draper had three sons and an
unknown number of daughters. The sons were:
1. Robert Clitheroe, eldest son, aged 6 years and more in 1545.
In 1559 he demised to his mother "Saint" all his portion of his father's
property.
2. Thomas Clitheroe, second son.
He was a legatee in the 1580 will of his uncle, Sir Christopher Draper of
London.
3. Henry Clitheroe, third son, Master of the Ironmongers Company.
He was also a legatee of his uncle Draper.
Died 20 Feb 1606/7 [buried 3 Mar 1606/7]
Married [his first wife] 5 Mar 1575/6 St Clement Eastcheap, London ~
Brigett
Hewett [christened 17 Apr 1557], daughter of Thomas Hewett [buried 5 Mar
1575/6] of London.
My line descends through Henry and Brigett's daughter, Anne Clitheroe,
who
was christened 21 Dec 1576 at St Dunstan in the East, London.
Todd Whitesides
-
Gjest
Re: Question about a given name ~ Sancie
Yes, thanks Todd, I'd never looked into that family; interesting about
the MGH reference too- thanks John.
"John Higgins" wrote:
the MGH reference too- thanks John.
"John Higgins" wrote:
This is very interesting and useful information on the Clitheroes. I
would
add one clarification regarding Margaret, dau. of Henry Clitheroe,
who m.
Sir Henry Garraway [or Garway]. My notes, based on a Clitheroe
pedigree in
MGH 5th ser. 3:170, say that Margaret was a dau. of Henry Clitheroe
by his
2nd wife Margaret, dau. of Nicholas Wheeler and widow of Joseph
Turner, and
not the 1st wife Bridget Hewett mentioned below. Can you confirm
this?
What is the source for the information below? Can either the
Clitheroe or
the Draper ancestry be traced back further?
Thanks for posting this....
----- Original Message -----
From: <ToddWhitesides@aol.com
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: Question about a given name ~ Sancie
_RootsWeb: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Re: Question about a given name ~
Sancie_
(http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GE ... 1112115684)
Matthew~
They do connect. Henry Clitheroe [d. 16 Jul 1545 Blessed Mary
Woolchurch
Parish, London] and his wife Seince "Sancie" Draper had three sons
and an
unknown number of daughters. The sons were:
1. Robert Clitheroe, eldest son, aged 6 years and more in 1545.
In 1559 he demised to his mother "Saint" all his portion of his
father's
property.
2. Thomas Clitheroe, second son.
He was a legatee in the 1580 will of his uncle, Sir Christopher
Draper of
London.
3. Henry Clitheroe, third son, Master of the Ironmongers Company.
He was also a legatee of his uncle Draper.
Died 20 Feb 1606/7 [buried 3 Mar 1606/7]
Married [his first wife] 5 Mar 1575/6 St Clement Eastcheap, London
~
Brigett
Hewett [christened 17 Apr 1557], daughter of Thomas Hewett [buried
5 Mar
1575/6] of London.
My line descends through Henry and Brigett's daughter, Anne
Clitheroe,
who
was christened 21 Dec 1576 at St Dunstan in the East, London.
Todd Whitesides
-
Gjest
Re: Question about a given name ~ Sancie
_RootsWeb: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Re: Question about a given name ~ Sancie_
(http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GE ... 1112228189)
The only contemporary reference I have in my notes regarding Margaret
(Clitheroe) Garraway is from the will of Sir Christopher Clitherow [P.C.C. PROB
11/187 ~ 22 Nov 1641] in which he refers to his sister Margaret Garraway and her
husband, Sir Henry Garraway, then Lord Mayor of London. The pedigree on pp.
170-171 of Misc. Gen. et Her., 5th series, iii, is most likely correct, as
Margaret's christening is not listed with Henry's other children by his first
wife in the register of Saint Dunstan in the East, London [see Harleian
Society Pub., v. 69]. For the I.P.M. of Henry Clitheroe (d. 1545) see pp. 53-55 of
Abstracts of Inquisitiones Post Mortem for the City of London - Tudor
Period, Part 2.
I have seen a fanciful lineage attributed to this Clitheroe family but have
been unable to find supporting contemporary documentation. The Draper
lineage can be taken back a couple of generations successfully though, beginning
with Thomas Draper of Camberwell, Surrey, then on to his son John Draper who
with his wife Agnes Aynesworth was the mother of Sancie (Draper) Clitheroe.
(http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GE ... 1112228189)
The only contemporary reference I have in my notes regarding Margaret
(Clitheroe) Garraway is from the will of Sir Christopher Clitherow [P.C.C. PROB
11/187 ~ 22 Nov 1641] in which he refers to his sister Margaret Garraway and her
husband, Sir Henry Garraway, then Lord Mayor of London. The pedigree on pp.
170-171 of Misc. Gen. et Her., 5th series, iii, is most likely correct, as
Margaret's christening is not listed with Henry's other children by his first
wife in the register of Saint Dunstan in the East, London [see Harleian
Society Pub., v. 69]. For the I.P.M. of Henry Clitheroe (d. 1545) see pp. 53-55 of
Abstracts of Inquisitiones Post Mortem for the City of London - Tudor
Period, Part 2.
I have seen a fanciful lineage attributed to this Clitheroe family but have
been unable to find supporting contemporary documentation. The Draper
lineage can be taken back a couple of generations successfully though, beginning
with Thomas Draper of Camberwell, Surrey, then on to his son John Draper who
with his wife Agnes Aynesworth was the mother of Sancie (Draper) Clitheroe.