Saxony - Billung question

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Leo van de Pas

Saxony - Billung question

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 20 mar 2005 22:30:02

ES volume 1, by Prinz von Isenburg and Freytag von Loringhoven, Tafel 3
This page begins with Liudolf, Duke in Saxony born about 806, died 866.
About 836 he marries Oda, daughter of Count Billung I. She is born in 806 and dies in May 913 (107 years old).

ES Schwennicke volume 1.1 Tafel 10
Here they call Liudolf only a count, no year of birth but he dies 11 March 866.
His wife Oda is recorded as a daughter of princeps Billung and Aeda. Here she is born 805/806 and died 17 May 913.

Caroli Magni Progenies by Siegfried Rösch, page 95
Here Liudolf is called a Saxony count (not count of or in Saxony) and Oda is a daughter of Count Billung.

Does anyone know what the proper identification is for Liudolf? Was he a Duke or only a Count and of what or in what? As intriguing is the father of Oda. Was he a prince or a Count and again of what?
With many thanks.
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

Peter Stewart

Re: Saxony - Billung question

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 21 mar 2005 08:25:49

""Leo van de Pas"" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote in message
news:000a01c52d94$9ae16680$c3b4fea9@email...
ES volume 1, by Prinz von Isenburg and Freytag von Loringhoven, Tafel 3
This page begins with Liudolf, Duke in Saxony born about 806, died 866.
About 836 he marries Oda, daughter of Count Billung I. She is born in 806
and dies in May 913 (107 years old).

ES Schwennicke volume 1.1 Tafel 10
Here they call Liudolf only a count, no year of birth but he dies 11 March
866.
His wife Oda is recorded as a daughter of princeps Billung and Aeda. Here
she is born 805/806 and died 17 May 913.

Caroli Magni Progenies by Siegfried Rösch, page 95
Here Liudolf is called a Saxony count (not count of or in Saxony) and Oda
is a daughter of Count Billung.

Does anyone know what the proper identification is for Liudolf? Was he a
Duke or only a Count and of what or in what? As intriguing is the father
of Oda. Was he a prince or a Count and again of what?

Titles were not strictly regulated at the time of Liudolf - he is called
"count" just as were other men who also used the title "duke" on occasions.
In his case, for instance, he was named as "Liudolfus comes" in Annales
Xantenses relating his death in 866, while he had earlier been described as
"dux Saconiae".

For his wife Oda we have a source that might be considered less than ideal,
a poem ('Carmen de primordiis coenobii Gandersheimensis') by the nun
Hrotsvita, stating that she was aged 107 at her death in 913, hence the
birthdate calculated as 905/6. Hrotsvita also named her parents as the ruler
(or prince) Billung and Aeda ("fila Billungi cuiusdam principis almi atque
bonae famae generosae scilicet Aeda').

It has been speculated that Oda was related to the Popponids and Robertians
(who transmitted the masculine form of her name, Odo or Eudes), and that she
brought to the family of Liudolf the lordship of Aschaffenburg, the old
political centre of the east Frankish kingdom, but there is no direct
evidence for this.

Peter Stewart

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