What is the female equivalent of fraternal, paternal, matern

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Shaft Drive

What is the female equivalent of fraternal, paternal, matern

Legg inn av Shaft Drive » 10 mar 2005 03:54:48

What is the female equivalent of fraternal?

- A mother has a maternal relationship to a male child.
- A father has a paternal relationship to that male child.
- A brother has a fraternal relationship to that male child.

But, what is the sibling sister's relationship to that male child?

I was filling out a medical form when I realized I had no idea how to
properly label the relationship. Of course, a cheap "mother" "father"
"brother" "sister" could work, (and does work for millions of unwitting
Americans), but, I've always felt it was wholly incorrect to label my
relationship to my child as "father" rather than as "paternal".

Hence my question:
- What is the designation of the relationship of a female sibling to
her brother properly called?

Stephen Oakes

Re: What is the female equivalent of fraternal, paternal, ma

Legg inn av Stephen Oakes » 10 mar 2005 04:02:41

sororal

--
Stephen Oakes

John O'Flaherty

Re: What is the female equivalent of fraternal, paternal, ma

Legg inn av John O'Flaherty » 10 mar 2005 04:05:08

Shaft Drive wrote:
What is the female equivalent of fraternal?

- A mother has a maternal relationship to a male child.
- A father has a paternal relationship to that male child.
- A brother has a fraternal relationship to that male child.

But, what is the sibling sister's relationship to that male child?

I was filling out a medical form when I realized I had no idea how to
properly label the relationship. Of course, a cheap "mother" "father"
"brother" "sister" could work, (and does work for millions of unwitting
Americans), but, I've always felt it was wholly incorrect to label my
relationship to my child as "father" rather than as "paternal".

Hence my question:
- What is the designation of the relationship of a female sibling to
her brother properly called?


Sororal appears in AHD, though it's not commonly heard.
See how they react to 'sibbish'.
--
john

Tony Cooper

Re: What is the female equivalent of fraternal, paternal, ma

Legg inn av Tony Cooper » 10 mar 2005 04:07:31

On 9 Mar 2005 18:54:48 -0800, "Shaft Drive"
<motorcycleshaftdrive@yahoo.com> wrote:

What is the female equivalent of fraternal?

- A mother has a maternal relationship to a male child.
- A father has a paternal relationship to that male child.
- A brother has a fraternal relationship to that male child.

But, what is the sibling sister's relationship to that male child?

I was filling out a medical form when I realized I had no idea how to
properly label the relationship. Of course, a cheap "mother" "father"
"brother" "sister" could work, (and does work for millions of unwitting
Americans), but, I've always felt it was wholly incorrect to label my
relationship to my child as "father" rather than as "paternal".

Hence my question:
- What is the designation of the relationship of a female sibling to
her brother properly called?

"Sororal" is the form for sister, but no reader of the form would have
the slightest idea of what you meant.


--
Tony Cooper
Orlando FL

Harry

Re: What is the female equivalent of fraternal, paternal, ma

Legg inn av Harry » 10 mar 2005 04:08:54

Shaft Drive wrote:
What is the female equivalent of fraternal?

This came up in a recent online chat in which I was participating, and my
rather flippant reply was that perhaps "sororal" shout fit. Turns out that
it's in many dictionaries, with a definition of "sisterly," or "like or
characteristic of or befitting a sister," etc. I'd never seen or heard it
used before, but you just never know...

hm

don groves

Re: What is the female equivalent of fraternal, paternal, ma

Legg inn av don groves » 10 mar 2005 04:35:45

In article <obev21lcr7h9u0tbbuoc8qa430j3m6eagq@4ax.com>, Tony
Cooper at tony_cooper213@earthlink.net hath writ:
On 9 Mar 2005 18:54:48 -0800, "Shaft Drive"
motorcycleshaftdrive@yahoo.com> wrote:

What is the female equivalent of fraternal?

- A mother has a maternal relationship to a male child.
- A father has a paternal relationship to that male child.
- A brother has a fraternal relationship to that male child.

But, what is the sibling sister's relationship to that male child?

I was filling out a medical form when I realized I had no idea how to
properly label the relationship. Of course, a cheap "mother" "father"
"brother" "sister" could work, (and does work for millions of unwitting
Americans), but, I've always felt it was wholly incorrect to label my
relationship to my child as "father" rather than as "paternal".

Hence my question:
- What is the designation of the relationship of a female sibling to
her brother properly called?

"Sororal" is the form for sister, but no reader of the form would have
the slightest idea of what you meant.

Not even one who knows about Fraternities nad Sororities?
--
dg (domain=ccwebster)

Tony Cooper

Re: What is the female equivalent of fraternal, paternal, ma

Legg inn av Tony Cooper » 10 mar 2005 05:22:23

On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 19:35:45 -0800, don groves <dgroves@domain.net (see
sig for domain)> wrote:

In article <obev21lcr7h9u0tbbuoc8qa430j3m6eagq@4ax.com>, Tony
Cooper at tony_cooper213@earthlink.net hath writ:
On 9 Mar 2005 18:54:48 -0800, "Shaft Drive"
motorcycleshaftdrive@yahoo.com> wrote:

What is the female equivalent of fraternal?

- A mother has a maternal relationship to a male child.
- A father has a paternal relationship to that male child.
- A brother has a fraternal relationship to that male child.

But, what is the sibling sister's relationship to that male child?

I was filling out a medical form when I realized I had no idea how to
properly label the relationship. Of course, a cheap "mother" "father"
"brother" "sister" could work, (and does work for millions of unwitting
Americans), but, I've always felt it was wholly incorrect to label my
relationship to my child as "father" rather than as "paternal".

Hence my question:
- What is the designation of the relationship of a female sibling to
her brother properly called?

"Sororal" is the form for sister, but no reader of the form would have
the slightest idea of what you meant.

Not even one who knows about Fraternities nad Sororities?

After I posted, I was thinking that the National Recording Secretary
of Chi Omega would probably know the word. However, my daughter - who
is a Chi Omega - wouldn't.




--
Tony Cooper
Orlando FL

meirman

Re: What is the female equivalent of fraternal, paternal, ma

Legg inn av meirman » 10 mar 2005 07:06:42

In alt.english.usage on 9 Mar 2005 18:54:48 -0800 "Shaft Drive"
<motorcycleshaftdrive@yahoo.com> posted:

What is the female equivalent of fraternal?

- A mother has a maternal relationship to a male child.
- A father has a paternal relationship to that male child.
- A brother has a fraternal relationship to that male child.

But, what is the sibling sister's relationship to that male child?

I was filling out a medical form when I realized I had no idea how to
properly label the relationship. Of course, a cheap "mother" "father"
"brother" "sister" could work, (and does work for millions of unwitting
Americans), but, I've always felt it was wholly incorrect to label my
relationship to my child as "father" rather than as "paternal".

I sort of agree, except that "father" is short for "My relationship is
that I am his father".
Hence my question:
- What is the designation of the relationship of a female sibling to
her brother properly called?


s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.

Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
now in Baltimore 20 years

Steve Hayes

Re: What is the female equivalent of fraternal, paternal, ma

Legg inn av Steve Hayes » 10 mar 2005 09:20:56

On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 19:35:45 -0800, don groves <dgroves@domain.net (see sig for
domain)> wrote:

In article <obev21lcr7h9u0tbbuoc8qa430j3m6eagq@4ax.com>, Tony
Cooper at tony_cooper213@earthlink.net hath writ:

"Sororal" is the form for sister, but no reader of the form would have
the slightest idea of what you meant.

Not even one who knows about Fraternities nad Sororities?

And the Soroptomists.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Michael Rolfe

Re: What is the female equivalent of fraternal, paternal, ma

Legg inn av Michael Rolfe » 10 mar 2005 11:05:38

"Shaft Drive" <motorcycleshaftdrive@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1110423288.637478.268510@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
What is the female equivalent of fraternal?

- A mother has a maternal relationship to a male child.
- A father has a paternal relationship to that male child.
- A brother has a fraternal relationship to that male child.

But, what is the sibling sister's relationship to that male child?

If you want to be understood, "sisterly."

I was filling out a medical form when I realized I had no idea how to
properly label the relationship. Of course, a cheap "mother" "father"
"brother" "sister" could work, (and does work for millions of unwitting
Americans), but, I've always felt it was wholly incorrect to label my
relationship to my child as "father" rather than as "paternal".

Hence my question:
- What is the designation of the relationship of a female sibling to
her brother properly called?

John Steele Gordon

Re: What is the female equivalent of fraternal, paternal, ma

Legg inn av John Steele Gordon » 10 mar 2005 18:12:02

"Tony Cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:obev21lcr7h9u0tbbuoc8qa430j3m6eagq@4ax.com...
On 9 Mar 2005 18:54:48 -0800, "Shaft Drive"
motorcycleshaftdrive@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Sororal" is the form for sister, but no reader of the form would have
the slightest idea of what you meant.

I once brought a sick pussycat into a veterinary hospital and had to fill
out a form with the usual information. When I got to "species" I wrote
"Felis catus." The nurse who looked over the form abruptly crossed that out
and substituted "cat." So much for scientific precision.

By the way, is there an adjective associated with "aunt"? Uncle/avuncular,
aunt/?

I wonder if there is a dictionary of adjectives. You look up the noun and it
gives you the adjective. English, for some mysterious reason, often has
Latin or Greek adjectives associated with Anglo-Saxon nouns. Heart/cardiac,
kidney/renal, liver/hepatic, stomach/gastric, dog/canine, cow/bovine,
twilight/crepuscular, etc. etc.

JSG

Harvey Van Sickle

Re: What is the female equivalent of fraternal, paternal, ma

Legg inn av Harvey Van Sickle » 10 mar 2005 18:19:33

On 10 Mar 2005, John Steele Gordon wrote

-snip-

By the way, is there an adjective associated with "aunt"?
Uncle/avuncular, aunt/?

That particular one's a rather famous "missing word", I believe.

--
Cheers, Harvey

Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 22 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van)

CE Wood

Re: What is the female equivalent of fraternal, paternal, ma

Legg inn av CE Wood » 10 mar 2005 21:55:05

"Kenneth G. Wilson (1923-). The Columbia Guide to Standard American
English. 1993.

avuncular (adj.)

means "typical of or suitable to an uncle"; it also has figurative
senses meaning "kind, indulgent, undemanding, sexless": His
treatment of her was more avuncular than amorous. It's perhaps a
cliché in its most frequent company, avuncular advice. A curiosity:
English has no similar adjective to deal with matters or qualities
typical of an aunt: auntish and auntlike are about as close as we can
come."

CE Wood


John Steele Gordon wrote:
"Tony Cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:obev21lcr7h9u0tbbuoc8qa430j3m6eagq@4ax.com...
On 9 Mar 2005 18:54:48 -0800, "Shaft Drive"
motorcycleshaftdrive@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Sororal" is the form for sister, but no reader of the form would
have
the slightest idea of what you meant.

I once brought a sick pussycat into a veterinary hospital and had to
fill
out a form with the usual information. When I got to "species" I
wrote
"Felis catus." The nurse who looked over the form abruptly crossed
that out
and substituted "cat." So much for scientific precision.

By the way, is there an adjective associated with "aunt"?
Uncle/avuncular,
aunt/?

I wonder if there is a dictionary of adjectives. You look up the noun
and it
gives you the adjective. English, for some mysterious reason, often
has
Latin or Greek adjectives associated with Anglo-Saxon nouns.
Heart/cardiac,
kidney/renal, liver/hepatic, stomach/gastric, dog/canine, cow/bovine,

twilight/crepuscular, etc. etc.

JSG

Don Phillipson

Re: What is the female equivalent of fraternal, paternal, ma

Legg inn av Don Phillipson » 10 mar 2005 22:17:43

"Shaft Drive" <motorcycleshaftdrive@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1110423288.637478.268510@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

What is the female equivalent of fraternal?

- A mother has a maternal relationship to a male child.
- A father has a paternal relationship to that male child.
- A brother has a fraternal relationship to that male child.

But, what is the sibling sister's relationship to that male child?

English lacks discrete terms for all likely
close relationships. Most obviously brother's
relationships with his siblings are usually called
fraternal, whether with girls or boys. No unique
word identifies a male's relationship with his sister
or a woman's with her brother.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

D. Spencer Hines

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 10 mar 2005 22:21:01

One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of an
AUNT.

AMITAN ---- referring to a father's sister.

MATERTERAN ---- referring to a mother's sister.

Or, simply choose one over the other and use it all the time --
MATERTERAN will do.

That's what we have already done with AVUNCULAR -- from AVUNCULUS, a
mother's brother.

If we wanted to be more precise and sticklers we should probably be
saying:

PATRUUSAN when referring to a father's brother -- from PATRUUS.

But English takes liberties and simplifies -- which is one of its
geniuses.

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor

Harvey Van Sickle

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av Harvey Van Sickle » 10 mar 2005 22:22:21

On 10 Mar 2005, D. Spencer Hines wrote

One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of an
AUNT.

Of course one *can* do so.

But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular" --
Enlgish *as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to do so.

--
Cheers, Harvey

Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 22 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van)

D. Spencer Hines

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 10 mar 2005 22:51:02

Irrelevant.

COIN your own word if you see the need to do so.

That's the way a language grows.

COIN it, DEFINE it, USE it....

Duck Soup....

Don't fraudulently truncate my posts without proper indications of
having done so -- using ELLIPSES. Vide infra.

Do learn how to spell ENGLISH too.

It's especially important to do so when you are posting to English
Language Usage groups. Vide infra.

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor
--------------------------

One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of an
AUNT.

AMITAN ---- referring to a father's sister.

MATERTERAN ---- referring to a mother's sister.

Or, simply choose one over the other and use it all the time --
MATERTERAN will do.

That's what we have already done with AVUNCULAR -- from AVUNCULUS, a
mother's brother.

If we wanted to be more precise and sticklers we should probably be
saying:

PATRUUSAN when referring to a father's brother -- from PATRUUS.

But English takes liberties and simplifies -- which is one of its
geniuses.

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor

"Harvey Van Sickle" <harvey.news@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9615D928B4A76whhvans@194.168.222.124...

| On 10 Mar 2005, D. Spencer Hines wrote
|
| > One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of an
| > AUNT.
|
| Of course one *can* do so.
|
| But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular" --
| Enlgish [sic] *as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to do
| so.
|
| --
| Cheers, Harvey
|
| Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
| Southern England for the past 22 years.
| (for e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van)

Harvey Van Sickle

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av Harvey Van Sickle » 10 mar 2005 23:03:20

On 10 Mar 2005, D. Spencer Hines wrote

Irrelevant.
COIN your own word if you see the need to do so.
That's the way a language grows.
COIN it, DEFINE it, USE it....

And if no one else adopts it, it fails to become part of the languagee:
it doesn't "catch", it dies.

An adjective for "aunt" has never caught on. It is therefore not part
of the language.

Q.E.D.

--
Cheers, Harvey

Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 22 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van)

Stephen Oakes

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av Stephen Oakes » 10 mar 2005 23:03:24

"D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote...
Don't fraudulently truncate my posts without proper indications of
having done so -- using ELLIPSES. Vide infra.

Get your hand off it.

--
Stephen Oakes

Stephen Oakes

Re: What is the female equivalent of fraternal, paternal, ma

Legg inn av Stephen Oakes » 10 mar 2005 23:05:04

"Michael Rolfe" <mumble@maths.uct.a.za> wrote...
If you want to be understood, "sisterly."

Personally I don't think that is specific enough. You can have a "sisterly"
relationship with someone who is not your sister.

--
Stephen Oakes

Joanne Marinelli

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av Joanne Marinelli » 10 mar 2005 23:21:16

"Harvey Van Sickle" <harvey.news@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9615D928B4A76whhvans@194.168.222.124...
On 10 Mar 2005, D. Spencer Hines wrote

One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of an
AUNT.

Of course one *can* do so.

But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular" --
Enlgish *as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to do so.

Why this particular qualification? English as it is spoken by Englishmen is

arguably now in the minority.

Joanne
--
Cheers, Harvey

Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 22 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van)

Harvey Van Sickle

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av Harvey Van Sickle » 10 mar 2005 23:30:03

On 10 Mar 2005, Joanne Marinelli wrote

"Harvey Van Sickle" <harvey.news@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9615D928B4A76whhvans@194.168.222.124...
On 10 Mar 2005, D. Spencer Hines wrote

One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical
of an AUNT.

Of course one *can* do so.

But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular"
-- Enlgish *as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to do
so.

Why this particular qualification? English as it is spoken by
Englishmen is arguably now in the minority.

Entirely my error; sorry.

I realised after I posted it that I was thinking of -- and should have
written -- "English as it is spoken by speakers of English".

--
Cheers, Harvey

Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 22 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van)

D. Spencer Hines

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 10 mar 2005 23:41:01

Balderdash and twaddle snipped and deposited in Hyde Park rubbish can.
-----------------------

Pedestrian, but necessary, task dispatched with skill and daring.

------------------------

English is far from being a slave to the imagined prerogatives of mere
Englishmen SPEAKING their form of English.

The WRITTEN language offers much more latitude for improvisation with
respect to some intriguing and sophisticated matters in English.

One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of an
AUNT.

AMITAN ---- referring to a father's sister.

MATERTERAN ---- referring to a mother's sister.

Or, simply choose one over the other and use it all the time --
MATERTERAN will do.

That's what we have already done with AVUNCULAR -- from AVUNCULUS, a
mother's brother.

If we wanted to be more precise and sticklers we should probably be
saying:

PATRUUSAN when referring to a father's brother -- from PATRUUS.

But English takes liberties and simplifies -- which is one of its
geniuses.

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor

"Harvey Van Sickle" <harvey.news@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9615E090656F7whhvans@194.168.222.123...

<baldersnip>

D. Spencer Hines

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 10 mar 2005 23:50:03

Bingo!

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor

| > But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular" --
| > Enlgish [sic] *as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to do
| > so.
| >
| Why this particular qualification? English as it is spoken by
| Englishmen is arguably now in the minority.
|
| Joanne

"Joanne Marinelli" <Jozanny@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:wL3Yd.363465$w62.9460@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Paul Wolff

Re: What is the female equivalent of fraternal, paternal, ma

Legg inn av Paul Wolff » 11 mar 2005 00:59:10

In message <Xns9615B07303DB0whhvans@194.168.222.123>, Harvey Van Sickle
<harvey.news@ntlworld.com> writes
On 10 Mar 2005, John Steele Gordon wrote

-snip-

By the way, is there an adjective associated with "aunt"?
Uncle/avuncular, aunt/?

That particular one's a rather famous "missing word", I believe.

Isn't it 'tantivy' among the county set?

--
Paul
In bocca al Lupo!

tiglath

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av tiglath » 11 mar 2005 01:08:24

"D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:r04Yd.1347$6r1.3735@eagle.america.net...
Balderdash and twaddle snipped and deposited in Hyde Park rubbish can.
-----------------------

Pedestrian, but necessary, task dispatched with skill and daring.

------------------------

English is far from being a slave to the imagined prerogatives of mere
Englishmen SPEAKING their form of English.

The WRITTEN language offers much more latitude for improvisation with
respect to some intriguing and sophisticated matters in English.

One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of an
AUNT.

AMITAN ---- referring to a father's sister.

MATERTERAN ---- referring to a mother's sister.

Or, simply choose one over the other and use it all the time --
MATERTERAN will do.

That's what we have already done with AVUNCULAR -- from AVUNCULUS, a
mother's brother.

If we wanted to be more precise and sticklers we should probably be
saying:

PATRUUSAN when referring to a father's brother -- from PATRUUS.

But English takes liberties and simplifies -- which is one of its
geniuses.

Just like any other language, boy.

It would be clear to you if you knew any language well, including yours.

Language is a human attribute and instinct, not exclusive to English
speakers.

Your faux-elitism is to laugh, Spencer.

don groves

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av don groves » 11 mar 2005 01:52:54

In article <Ec3Yd.1345$6r1.3733@eagle.america.net>, D. Spencer
Hines at poguemidden@hotmail.com hath writ:

Irrelevant.

COIN your own word if you see the need to do so.

That's the way a language grows.

COIN it, DEFINE it, USE it....

Duck Soup....

Don't fraudulently truncate my posts without proper indications of
having done so -- using ELLIPSES. Vide infra.

Do learn how to spell ENGLISH too.

It's especially important to do so when you are posting to English
Language Usage groups. Vide infra.

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor
--------------------------

One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of an
AUNT.

AMITAN ---- referring to a father's sister.

MATERTERAN ---- referring to a mother's sister.

Or, simply choose one over the other and use it all the time --
MATERTERAN will do.

That's what we have already done with AVUNCULAR -- from AVUNCULUS, a
mother's brother.

If we wanted to be more precise and sticklers we should probably be
saying:

PATRUUSAN when referring to a father's brother -- from PATRUUS.

But English takes liberties and simplifies -- which is one of its
geniuses.

D. Spencer Hines


You're Albert Silverman aren't you?
--
dg (domain=ccwebster)

Iskandar Baharuddin

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av Iskandar Baharuddin » 11 mar 2005 02:37:54

"D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tN2Yd.1303$6r1.3727@eagle.america.net...
One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of an
AUNT.

AMITAN ---- referring to a father's sister.

MATERTERAN ---- referring to a mother's sister.

Or, simply choose one over the other and use it all the time --
MATERTERAN will do.

That's what we have already done with AVUNCULAR -- from AVUNCULUS, a
mother's brother.

If we wanted to be more precise and sticklers we should probably be
saying:

PATRUUSAN when referring to a father's brother -- from PATRUUS.

But English takes liberties and simplifies -- which is one of its
geniuses.

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor

Oh no! He's back! Or has my selective perception suddenly failed me.


Izzy

Iskandar Baharuddin

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av Iskandar Baharuddin » 11 mar 2005 02:40:49

"Harvey Van Sickle" <harvey.news@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9615E4C751CDDwhhvans@194.168.222.124...
On 10 Mar 2005, Joanne Marinelli wrote


"Harvey Van Sickle" <harvey.news@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9615D928B4A76whhvans@194.168.222.124...
On 10 Mar 2005, D. Spencer Hines wrote

One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical
of an AUNT.

Of course one *can* do so.

But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular"
-- Enlgish *as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to do
so.

Why this particular qualification? English as it is spoken by
Englishmen is arguably now in the minority.

Entirely my error; sorry.

I realised after I posted it that I was thinking of -- and should have
written -- "English as it is spoken by speakers of English".

As distinguished from English as it is spoken by non-speakers of English?


Izzy

Martin Ambuhl

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av Martin Ambuhl » 11 mar 2005 05:24:46

D. Spencer Hines wrote:
English is far from being a slave to the imagined prerogatives of mere
Englishmen SPEAKING their form of English.

The WRITTEN language offers much more latitude for improvisation with
respect to some intriguing and sophisticated matters in English.

One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of an
AUNT.

Oh, Sweet Jesus! He's back!
DHS seems to have adopted Karl Malbrain's posting style. Next he'll
tell us that "AUNTINESS" is a DING-AN-SICH. No, that's wrong. He won't
be telling me.
*PLONK*

D. Spencer Hines

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 11 mar 2005 06:30:02

Hilarious!

Ambuhl gaily flaunts his congenital dyslexia.

How Sweet It Is!

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor

"Martin Ambuhl" <mambuhl@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:i49Yd.787$qW.563@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...

| D. Spencer Hines wrote:

| > English is far from being a slave to the imagined prerogatives of
| > mere Englishmen SPEAKING their form of English.
| >
| > The WRITTEN language offers much more latitude for improvisation
| > with respect to some intriguing and sophisticated matters in
| > English.
| >
| > One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of an
| > AUNT.
|
| Oh, Sweet Jesus! He's back!
| DHS [sic] seems to have adopted Karl Malbrain's posting style. Next
| he'll tell us that "AUNTINESS" is a DING-AN-SICH. No, that's wrong.
| He won't be telling me.
| *PLONK*

Jean-François BLANC

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av Jean-François BLANC » 11 mar 2005 07:34:01

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 05:51:29 -0000, D. Spencer Hines
<poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hilarious!
/.../
How Sweet It Is!

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor


Sorry for the off topic answer...

I'm quite astounded by Mr Hines (or is it Spencer?) way of criticising
the use of English language as it seems obvious he would hardly accept
to communicate in another one, or with his proper syntax (*).

Do not forget a language is a communication tool: if nobody uses the
same words, there is no way to communicate.

Joan Francés BLANC

(* Note: I was always told that Latin would not accept a double ET,
and uses a combination of ET and -QUE: lux et veritas libertasque)

Harvey Van Sickle

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av Harvey Van Sickle » 11 mar 2005 08:28:49

On 11 Mar 2005, Iskandar Baharuddin wrote

"Harvey Van Sickle" <harvey.news@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9615E4C751CDDwhhvans@194.168.222.124...
On 10 Mar 2005, Joanne Marinelli wrote


"Harvey Van Sickle" <harvey.news@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9615D928B4A76whhvans@194.168.222.124...
On 10 Mar 2005, D. Spencer Hines wrote

One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical
of an AUNT.

Of course one *can* do so.

But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular"
-- Enlgish *as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to
do so.

Why this particular qualification? English as it is spoken by
Englishmen is arguably now in the minority.

Entirely my error; sorry.

I realised after I posted it that I was thinking of -- and should
have written -- "English as it is spoken by speakers of English".

As distinguished from English as it is spoken by non-speakers of
English?

Cute....it is, though as distinguished from "English as it is imagined
it ought to be" by both speakers and non-speakers of English.


--
Cheers, Harvey

Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 22 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van)

Charles Riggs

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av Charles Riggs » 11 mar 2005 09:23:33

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 21:40:06 -0000, "D. Spencer Hines"
<poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote:

....

Here's an event not to be overlooked: a return of The Dispenser.
Where's Bob Lieblich when we need him?
--
Charles Riggs

There are no accented letters in my email address

Iskandar Baharuddin

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av Iskandar Baharuddin » 11 mar 2005 12:20:44

"Harvey Van Sickle" <harvey.news@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96164C3749F77whhvans@194.168.222.125...
On 11 Mar 2005, Iskandar Baharuddin wrote


"Harvey Van Sickle" <harvey.news@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9615E4C751CDDwhhvans@194.168.222.124...
On 10 Mar 2005, Joanne Marinelli wrote


"Harvey Van Sickle" <harvey.news@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9615D928B4A76whhvans@194.168.222.124...
On 10 Mar 2005, D. Spencer Hines wrote

One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical
of an AUNT.

Of course one *can* do so.

But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular"
-- Enlgish *as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to
do so.

Why this particular qualification? English as it is spoken by
Englishmen is arguably now in the minority.

Entirely my error; sorry.

I realised after I posted it that I was thinking of -- and should
have written -- "English as it is spoken by speakers of English".

As distinguished from English as it is spoken by non-speakers of
English?

Cute....it is, though as distinguished from "English as it is imagined
it ought to be" by both speakers and non-speakers of English.

Thanks for clarifying that.


Izzy

Gjest

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av Gjest » 11 mar 2005 20:56:34

D. Spencer Hines wrote:
Whatever



LOLOLOL! Ain't it funny that DHS is back? He's SOOOOOOO bizarro!

Gjest

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av Gjest » 11 mar 2005 20:57:53

P.S., the feminine version of "vernacular" is "vernaculara". Which is
a woman says something in vernaculara. It's Latina, I think.

Gjest

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av Gjest » 11 mar 2005 20:59:35

Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
On 10 Mar 2005, D. Spencer Hines wrote

Irrelevant.
COIN your own word if you see the need to do so.
That's the way a language grows.
COIN it, DEFINE it, USE it....

He's right! Look at what the ghetti have done!

And if no one else adopts it, it fails to become part of the
languagee:
it doesn't "catch", it dies.

An adjective for "aunt" has never caught on. It is therefore not
part
of the language.

Q.E.D.

--
Cheers, Harvey

Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 22 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van)

Gjest

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av Gjest » 11 mar 2005 21:01:52

Joanne Marinelli wrote:
"Harvey Van Sickle" <harvey.news@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9615D928B4A76whhvans@194.168.222.124...
On 10 Mar 2005, D. Spencer Hines wrote

One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of
an
AUNT.

Of course one *can* do so.

But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular" --
Enlgish *as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to do so.

Why this particular qualification? English as it is spoken by
Englishmen is
arguably now in the minority.


OMFG!! LOLOLOLOL! It's like a terrorist convenetion in here! Quick,
someone invite Yassir Arafat! I NEVER thought I'd live to see the day
when DHS and Marinutti were having a ACTUAL CONVO wit each other!
Quick, get Bun Mui & Shaa Kaa Khan too!

Gjest

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av Gjest » 11 mar 2005 21:03:27

Charles Riggs wrote:
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 21:40:06 -0000, "D. Spencer Hines"
poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote:

...

Here's an event not to be overlooked: a return of The Dispenser.
Where's Bob Lieblich when we need him?
--
Charles Riggs

LOLOLOL! Riggs, I don't know about you, but I just creamed my pants
over this! I can now die a happy man! This is GREAT! Liebs is
missing all the fun! I'ma be PARTAYING IN DA GHETTO all night long!!
I haven't been this happy in the AUE since poor CJ left! FREE CJ!

Evan Kirshenbaum

Re: What is the female equivalent of fraternal, paternal, ma

Legg inn av Evan Kirshenbaum » 12 mar 2005 01:24:09

"Stephen Oakes" <soakes1@XXXbigpond.net.au> writes:

"Michael Rolfe" <mumble@maths.uct.a.za> wrote...
If you want to be understood, "sisterly."

Personally I don't think that is specific enough. You can have a
"sisterly" relationship with someone who is not your sister.

I'd say that all of the others--"fraternal", "maternal", "paternal",
"avuncular", etc.--can be extended metaphorically as well.

--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Ye knowe ek, that in forme of speche
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 | is chaunge
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |Withinne a thousand yer, and wordes
| tho
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |That hadden prys now wonder nyce and
(650)857-7572 | straunge
|Us thenketh hem, and yet they spake
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | hem so
| Chaucer

Gjest

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av Gjest » 12 mar 2005 02:27:38

D. Spencer Hines wrote:
Bingo!

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor

| > But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular"
--
| > Enlgish [sic]

What more can we say? That hick from Survivor speaks better English
than Marinutti!

*as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to do
| > so.
|
| Why this particular qualification? English as it is spoken by
| Englishmen is arguably now in the minority.
|
| Joanne

"Joanne Marinelli" <Jozanny@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:wL3Yd.363465$w62.9460@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Stephen Oakes

Re: What is the female equivalent of fraternal, paternal, ma

Legg inn av Stephen Oakes » 12 mar 2005 03:42:48

"Evan Kirshenbaum" <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote...
"Michael Rolfe" <mumble@maths.uct.a.za> wrote...
If you want to be understood, "sisterly."

Personally I don't think that is specific enough. You can have a
"sisterly" relationship with someone who is not your sister.

I'd say that all of the others--"fraternal", "maternal", "paternal",
"avuncular", etc.--can be extended metaphorically as well.

Possibly. Think of it this way then...a "sororal" nephew is not the same as
a "sisterly" nephew. :-)

As you were...

--
Stephen Oakes

Michael Mendelsohn

Re: What is the female equivalent of fraternal, paternal, ma

Legg inn av Michael Mendelsohn » 12 mar 2005 07:38:20

Harvey Van Sickle schrieb:
On 10 Mar 2005, John Steele Gordon wrote
By the way, is there an adjective associated with "aunt"?
Uncle/avuncular, aunt/?

That particular one's a rather famous "missing word", I believe.

If you need one, use "auntistic" or "auntastic", depending on whether
your aunt is more artistic or fantastic. ;)

Cheers
Michael
--
It's silly talking about how many years we will have to spend
in the jungles of Vietnam when we could pave the whole country
and put parking stripes on it and still be home by Christmas.
-- Ronald Reagan, October 10, 1965

Bill McCray

Re: What is the female equivalent of fraternal, paternal, ma

Legg inn av Bill McCray » 12 mar 2005 20:15:04

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 16:17:43 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
<d.phillipson@ttrryytteell.com> wrote:

"Shaft Drive" <motorcycleshaftdrive@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1110423288.637478.268510@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

What is the female equivalent of fraternal?

- A mother has a maternal relationship to a male child.
- A father has a paternal relationship to that male child.
- A brother has a fraternal relationship to that male child.

But, what is the sibling sister's relationship to that male child?

English lacks discrete terms for all likely
close relationships. Most obviously brother's
relationships with his siblings are usually called
fraternal, whether with girls or boys. No unique
word identifies a male's relationship with his sister
or a woman's with her brother.

We could coin "sibular".

Bill

Swap first and last parts of username and ISP for address.

Graeme Wall

Re: What is the female equivalent of fraternal, paternal, ma

Legg inn av Graeme Wall » 12 mar 2005 21:27:19

In message <42328E5C.454482EB@msgid.michael.mendelsohn.de>
Michael Mendelsohn <invalid@msgid.michael.mendelsohn.de> wrote:

Harvey Van Sickle schrieb:
On 10 Mar 2005, John Steele Gordon wrote
By the way, is there an adjective associated with "aunt"?
Uncle/avuncular, aunt/?

That particular one's a rather famous "missing word", I believe.

If you need one, use "auntistic" or "auntastic", depending on whether
your aunt is more artistic or fantastic. ;)


Just hope she isn't autistic...

--
Graeme Wall

My genealogy website:
<http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/genealogy/index.html>

Mike Lyle

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av Mike Lyle » 13 mar 2005 15:44:43

Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
On 10 Mar 2005, D. Spencer Hines wrote

One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of
an
AUNT.

Of course one *can* do so.

But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular" --
Enlgish *as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to do so.

I'm not planning to join the thread, but Google tells me nobody's
mentioned the impeccable and potentially useful coinage "auntly".
OED1 has two examples, both from letters by Victorian women. I think
I've occasionally heard it in conversation; and wouldn't be at all
surprised to find it in, for example, Wodehouse.

Mike.

Harvey Van Sickle

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av Harvey Van Sickle » 13 mar 2005 15:52:13

On 13 Mar 2005, Mike Lyle wrote

Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
On 10 Mar 2005, D. Spencer Hines wrote

One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of
an
AUNT.

Of course one *can* do so.

But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular" --
Enlgish *as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to do so.

I'm not planning to join the thread, but Google tells me nobody's
mentioned the impeccable and potentially useful coinage "auntly".
OED1 has two examples, both from letters by Victorian women. I think
I've occasionally heard it in conversation; and wouldn't be at all
surprised to find it in, for example, Wodehouse.

It's an excellent suggestion, as it sounds entirely normal -- but
although it should perhaps be more widely used, I don't think it's in
common circulation.

--
Cheers, Harvey

Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 22 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van)

Paul Wolff

Re: What Is The Female Equivalent Of AVUNCULAR?

Legg inn av Paul Wolff » 13 mar 2005 16:19:24

In message <39j1v0F61jl1iU1@individual.net>, Mike Lyle
<mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> writes
Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
On 10 Mar 2005, D. Spencer Hines wrote

One can easily CREATE an adjective to deal with things typical of
an
AUNT.

Of course one *can* do so.

But the central point of interest is that -- unlike "avuncular" --
Enlgish *as it is spoken by Englishmen* has never chosen to do so.

I'm not planning to join the thread, but Google tells me nobody's
mentioned the impeccable and potentially useful coinage "auntly".
OED1 has two examples, both from letters by Victorian women. I think
I've occasionally heard it in conversation; and wouldn't be at all
surprised to find it in, for example, Wodehouse.

Whence 'mastodonnish': pertaining to a Damascene[1] educator.


[1] St John of Damascus[2] (to make the reference quite clear).

[2] Whose best-seller was The Fount of Knowledge, (to lead the horses
even closer to water[3]).

[3] Or to milk, in this case[4].

[4] A passing allusion to casein, the principal albuminous constituent
thereof.
--
Paul
In bocca al Lupo!

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