Candidates for inclusion in next ed. of _RD600_

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John Brandon

Candidates for inclusion in next ed. of _RD600_

Legg inn av John Brandon » 05 mar 2005 16:32:05

Two further candidates that might be worth looking into are Philip
Vincent and Mrs. Frances-1 (Greville) (West) (Piersey) Matthews.

1. Philip Vincent, author of _A True Relation of the Late Battell
Fought in New England_ , a narrative of the Pequot War of 1638, is not
found in the _DAB_ or _DNB_, but is included in the new _OBND_.
Savage's _Genealogical Dictionary_ says the following about him:

[VINCENT,] PHILIP, a gent. of anc. fam. b. at Frisby, near
Coningsborough in the S. of Yorksh. bred at Peterhouse, Cambridge
Univ. was s. of Richard by Elizabeth d. of Thomas Rokeby, a fam. of
distinct. in that Co. bapt. 23 Nov. 1600. His f. mo. and sis. Jane,
all d. June 1617. Aft. ordin. he was present. to a living in Surrey,
wh. he resign. Aug. 1629, and aft. the d. of his w. next yr. went upon
travels in various and distant countries, visit. Guiana, but came to
N. E. when the Pequot war had begun, seems to have partaken in active
serv. and aft. its terminat. went home, and publ. at London 1638, "The
true relat. of the late battle fought in N. E. betw. the Eng. [[vol.
4, p. 374]] and the Pequot salvages" of wh. reprint. may be seen in 3
Mass. Hist. Coll. VI. 29. Biogr. notice of him, writ. with admir.
felicity of research, by Rev. Joseph Hunter, is giv. in 4 Mass. Hist.
Coll. I. 86.

There is some question whether or not Vincent actually came to New
England, but he is definitely known to have visited Guiana, and the
_ODNB_ sketch declares that he "describes the New England scene with
such detail that he received his information either at first hand or
from a reliable second-hand source."

According to Rev. Joseph Hunter, writing in _Collections of the
Massachusetts Historical Society_, 4th series, 1:86-90, Vincent was
the son of Richard Vincent of Coningsborough, Yorkshire (a descendant
of the Vincent family of Braithwell), and his wife "Elizabeth,
daughter of Thomas Rokeby of Hotham." Hunter's _South Yorkshire_,
1:131-32 (a chart of the Vincents of Braithwell) would allow the
ancestry to be taken back quite a few generations. Particularly
interesting is an ancestral Brian Vincent who married "Beatrix, dau.
of sir Thomas Cockaine of Ashborn."

Philip Vincent's wife was Frances, daughter of Sir Christopher Heydon
of Baconsthorpe, Norfolk.

2. Doug's new RPA, p. 405, mentions Virginia immigrant Nathaniel
West's wife, Frances Greville, who remarried (1) to Abraham Piersey
and (2) to Gov. Samuel Matthews. I believe that _Adventurers of Purse
and Person_, 2nd edition, implies that both of Matthews' children were
by Frances Greville (has this changed in the later editions of
_Adventurers_?). Nancy McBride's _Gordon Kinship_, pp. 307-09,
discusses the children and later descendants of Gov. Samuel Matthews,
though she gives the name of the Governor's wife as "Lady Mary Frances
Hinton" (a possibly fictional, or partially fictional, creature).

Dugdale's 1664-5 Lancashire Visitation confirms the identity of the
Virginia settler Nathaniel West's wife. On 16 Sept. 1664, Nathaniel
West of Borwick Hall, Lancashire, signed a pedigree beginning with his
grandfather: "Thomas West, second lord de la Warr." His own father
was "Nathaniel West, fifth son," who married "…… dau. of …… Grevile."
No mention is made of Virginia, but this is quite clearly the same
family, as the early West immigrants in Virginia were sons of Lord De
la Warr.

It might prove difficult to determine the exact parentage of Frances
Greville, but someone named Greville who married the son of a Lord De
la Warr would likely be a member of at least the minor gentry.

John Brandon

Re: Candidates for inclusion in next ed. of _RD600_

Legg inn av John Brandon » 10 mar 2005 23:47:04

Nicolson and Burn's _History and Antiquities of the Counties of
Westmorland and Cumberland_, 1:212, offers a bit more information on
one of the wives of the younger Nathaniel West:

George Preston of Holker esquire; who married to his first wife
Elizabeth daughter of Ralph Ashton of Lever in Lancashire, and by her
had issue, (1) Thomas. (2) Christopher. (3) Frances, married to
Robert Duckenfield of Duckenfield in Cheshire. To his second wife he
married Anne daughter of Sir Thomas Strickland of Sizergh, and by her
had issue, (1) George. (2) Anne, married to Sir George Middleton of
Leighton baronet. (3) Margaret, married to Francis Biddulph of
Biddulph in Staffordshire. (4) Elizabeth, married first to John Sayer
of Yarm: Secondly, to Nathanael West esquire: And thirdly, to Geroge
Layburne, gentleman.




2. Doug's new RPA, p. 405, mentions Virginia immigrant Nathaniel
West's wife, Frances Greville, who remarried (1) to Abraham Piersey
and (2) to Gov. Samuel Matthews. I believe that _Adventurers of Purse
and Person_, 2nd edition, implies that both of Matthews' children were
by Frances Greville (has this changed in the later editions of
_Adventurers_?). Nancy McBride's _Gordon Kinship_, pp. 307-09,
discusses the children and later descendants of Gov. Samuel Matthews,
though she gives the name of the Governor's wife as "Lady Mary Frances
Hinton" (a possibly fictional, or partially fictional, creature).

Dugdale's 1664-5 Lancashire Visitation confirms the identity of the
Virginia settler Nathaniel West's wife. On 16 Sept. 1664, Nathaniel
West of Borwick Hall, Lancashire, signed a pedigree beginning with his
grandfather: "Thomas West, second lord de la Warr." His own father
was "Nathaniel West, fifth son," who married "?? dau. of ?? Grevile."
No mention is made of Virginia, but this is quite clearly the same
family, as the early West immigrants in Virginia were sons of Lord De
la Warr.

It might prove difficult to determine the exact parentage of Frances
Greville, but someone named Greville who married the son of a Lord De
la Warr would likely be a member of at least the minor gentry.

John H

Re: Candidates for inclusion in next ed. of _RD600_ + Grevil

Legg inn av John H » 11 mar 2005 04:53:27

Someone was stating amongst other things
(to which John Brandon replied )
Original poster said:
It might prove difficult to determine the exact parentage of Frances
Greville, but someone named Greville who married the son of a Lord De
la Warr would likely be a member of at least the minor gentry.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Try having a gander at the lot below re the Greville ancestors
I have left out "mountains of data I have on the others,
but this is 1-4 generations (shortened data)
from Frances Greville backwards
(See blue highlighting, if it comes out blue on newsgroup!)
John H.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1. Edward (Sir) (Grevill) GREVILLE, b. c1474 in Milcote, Warwickshire
England. He married Anne (Dame) DENTON, married c1499 in Milcote,
Warwickshire, Eng., b. c1469 in Amesden, Buckinghamshire, England, (daughter
of John Robert Thomas DENTON and Isabell BROWNE) d. 13 Oct 1529 in Weston on
Avon England. Edward died c1528/9 in Weston on Avon, England, UK, buried:
in West Church upon Avon,Warwickshire, Eng. Knighted c1513. Ashley Manor
and interests at Charlton Kings were surrendered to Edward (Sir) Greville
#(D1224 No13) from John Westby (Edward Tame actually owned them D1224 No 8
c1503) and Sir Edward was still in possession in 1520 when he mortgaged them
for £400. His wife Ann (nee Denton) and Son & heir John also went guarantors
of mortgage repayment (D1224 No15&16) Above Manor & interests were
transferred to Robert Grevill and his heirs in c1520. Will made 21/6/1528
proved 1/10/1529 (U269 T246/2). Knighted 13/10/1513.

1.1. John (Sir) GREVILLE

1.2. Alis (Grevill) GREVILLE,

1.3. Fulke (Sir1) (Grevill) GREVILLE, b. c1491 in Milcote Warwickshire Eng.
He married Elizabeth WILLOUGHBY, married c 11 Apr 1526 in Broke, Wiltshire,
Eng., b. 28 Apr 1500 in Broke Wiltshire UK, (daughter of Edward (Sir) (J.P.)
WILLOUGHBY and Margaret NEVILLE) d. 9 Nov 1562 in Alcaster,
Warwickshire,Eng, buried: 15 Nov 1562 in Alcaster Parish Church Warwickshire
UK. Fulke died 10 Nov 1559 in Milcote or Alcaster, Warwickshire Eng.,
buried: 11 Dec 1559 in Alcaster Church Warwickshire Eng. Married date is
date of marriages contract.

Funeral service held at Alcaster Parish Church

Lived Milcote Warwickshire England.

Granted Alcaster Monastery by Henry VIII

Monument with effigies of Fulke and his wife are in South Aisle of
church at Alcaster.

Sheriff of Warwick 1543 & 1548.

Owed money to Sir Edward Lyttleton will was dated 12/09/1559 and
proved 7/12/1560

Deathdate from his tomb in the church at Alcaster Sir Fowlke Grevyl.
Elizabeth: Granddaughter of Baron Latimer (Richard Neville ) and Baroness
Latimer (Anne Stafford)

Alternate birthdate is c1512??

Her deathdate from the tomb in the church at Alcaster

Fulkes father edward was Elizabeths Guardian Heiress?

"Elizabeth of Broke Wiltshire"

Dame Elizabeth Elizabeth was twice descended from the original Earls
of warwick in her own right.

3rd Baroness Willoughby de Broke de Jure

1.3.1. Katherine GREVILLE

1.3.2. William (Grevill) GREVILLE

1.3.3. Mary (Grevill) GREVILLE,

1.3.4. Fulke (Sir2) (Grevill) GREVILLE,

1.3.5. Robert (Grevill) GREVILLE,

1.3.6. Elenoar (Helen) GREVILLE

1.3.7. Edward (Sir) (Grevill) GREVILLE, b. c1539 in Harold
Park,Essex, Eng. He married Elizabeth GREY, married c1569 in Harolds Park,
Nazing, Essex, Eng., b. c1550 in Harold Park, Nazing, Essex,Eng., d. b4 15
Dec 1619. Edward died 27 Jul 1615. Lived Harold Park in the Parish of
Waltham-Abbey in the County of Essex 2 daughters only. Elizabeth: Some say
"Jane Grey"

1.3.7.1. Helena GREVILLE,

1.3.7.2. Elizabeth GREVILLE,

1.3.7.3. Douglas GREVILLE,

1.3.7.4. Frances GREVILLE, b. c1578 in Harolds Park, Nazing,
Essex, Eng. She married (1) Nathaniel WEST, married c1621, b. ??, d. c1623.
She married (2) Abraham PIERSEY, married c1625, b. ??, d. c1627. She
married (3) Samuel (Snr) MATTHEWS, married c1629, b. ?? in USA, d. ??.
Frances died c1633. Nathaniel: "Ships Captain"

1.3.7.5. Ann GREVILLE,

1.3.7.6. Mary Ann GREVILLE

1.3.7.7. Fulke GREVILLE,

1.3.7.8. Philip GREVILLE

1.3.7.9. Margaret GREVILLE

1.3.8. Blanche (Grevill) GREVILLE,

1.3.9. Katherine (Catherine Grevill) GREVILLE,

1.4. Edward (Grevill) GREVILLE

1.5. Ann (Grevill) GREVILLE,

1.6. Thomas (Sir) GREVILLE

starbuck95

Re: Candidates for inclusion in next ed. of _RD600_ + Grevil

Legg inn av starbuck95 » 11 mar 2005 15:23:27

1.3.7.4. Frances GREVILLE, b. c1578 in Harolds Park, Nazing,
Essex, Eng. She married (1) Nathaniel WEST, married c1621, b. ??, d.

c1623.
She married (2) Abraham PIERSEY, married c1625, b. ??, d. c1627. She
married (3) Samuel (Snr) MATTHEWS, married c1629, b. ?? in USA, d. ??.
Frances died c1633. Nathaniel: "Ships Captain"

Don't think this is right-- certainly _couldn't be_ if she was still
having children in the late 1620s ...

Gjest

Re: Candidates for inclusion in next ed. of _RD600_ + Grevil

Legg inn av Gjest » 11 mar 2005 20:08:45

You're confusing two Frances Grevilles. There's one who married
Nathaniel West and the other husbands (p. 405 of PA3) and the one who's
the daughter of Sir Edward Greville who married John Chamberlain (p.
133 of PA3).

John H

Re: Candidates for inclusion in next ed. of _RD600_ + Grevil

Legg inn av John H » 12 mar 2005 08:03:11

Ok so it looks like I have wrong family for Frances
Guess I need to recheck my source or see who gave it to me, with what
background.
I dont have a John Chamberlain, do you have anywhere I can gain that family
details etc.

BTW What are you referring to when you quote
p405 of PA3 or p133 of PA3
What is this book "PA3" or is it on line somewhere or what please.
I am not in UK.John

<mhollick@mac.com> wrote in message
news:1110568125.767361.320380@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
You're confusing two Frances Grevilles. There's one who married
Nathaniel West and the other husbands (p. 405 of PA3) and the one who's
the daughter of Sir Edward Greville who married John Chamberlain
(p.133 of PA3).

Gjest

Re: Candidates for inclusion in next ed. of _RD600_ + Grevil

Legg inn av Gjest » 12 mar 2005 08:28:32

PA3 is short hand for:

"Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families"
by Douglas Richardson (Genealogical Publishing Co., Baltimore, 2004)

I'm not in the UK either. A decent large library should have this
book. Mr. Richardson frequently contributes to this newsgroup.

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