Charlemagne Society
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Leo van de Pas
Charlemagne Society
Denis Beauregard made a few valid observations, societies he is aware off charge because they do time consuming work, fair enough. Also to build up a data base takes time. I think after ten years I could have started my "Charlemagne Society" especially if I had concentrated more on American genealogy.
The difference is that the International Charlemagne Society expects people to come to them with an established line. They need to feed that information into their data base and link it to what they have already. Would this be 15 generations? 15 generations, husbands and wives, roughtly 30 people need to be added and who knows how many ancestors totally they can provide. If I had done this with the following people how many ancestors would I have found?
Gordon R. Hale Jr. 3,061 ancestors
Brom Nichol Jr 4,696 ancestors
Gary Boyd Roberts 3,370 ancestors
Richard Borthwick 6,136 ancestors
Doug McDonald 3,788 ancestors
Brice Clagett 5,825 ancestors
Ian Fettes 6,201 ancestors
Grant Menzies 4,465 ancestors
Kelsey Williams 5,118 ancestors
John Ravillious 5,120 ancestors
Malinda Jones 3,073 ancestors
Nathaniel Taylor 2,912 ancestors
Sam Sloan 3,445 ancestors
Louise Staley 3,813 ancestors
Tony Hoskins 3,045 ancestors
I am not mentioning people like William Addams Reitwiesner, Tim Powys-Lybbe, Peter de Loriol or John Steele Gordon as they have much larger numbers of ancestors in my data base
and they have done enormous amounts of work themselves.
In Australia a CD costs about $2 add to this wrapping and postage, would this be $10 ?
Charging $50 (US) with a cost of about $7 (US) still leaves a fair amount of money (in comparison) for entering about 30 names into a data base. It totally depends on what is on that CD they may well have made a superb CD with portraits and other additional information.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
The difference is that the International Charlemagne Society expects people to come to them with an established line. They need to feed that information into their data base and link it to what they have already. Would this be 15 generations? 15 generations, husbands and wives, roughtly 30 people need to be added and who knows how many ancestors totally they can provide. If I had done this with the following people how many ancestors would I have found?
Gordon R. Hale Jr. 3,061 ancestors
Brom Nichol Jr 4,696 ancestors
Gary Boyd Roberts 3,370 ancestors
Richard Borthwick 6,136 ancestors
Doug McDonald 3,788 ancestors
Brice Clagett 5,825 ancestors
Ian Fettes 6,201 ancestors
Grant Menzies 4,465 ancestors
Kelsey Williams 5,118 ancestors
John Ravillious 5,120 ancestors
Malinda Jones 3,073 ancestors
Nathaniel Taylor 2,912 ancestors
Sam Sloan 3,445 ancestors
Louise Staley 3,813 ancestors
Tony Hoskins 3,045 ancestors
I am not mentioning people like William Addams Reitwiesner, Tim Powys-Lybbe, Peter de Loriol or John Steele Gordon as they have much larger numbers of ancestors in my data base
and they have done enormous amounts of work themselves.
In Australia a CD costs about $2 add to this wrapping and postage, would this be $10 ?
Charging $50 (US) with a cost of about $7 (US) still leaves a fair amount of money (in comparison) for entering about 30 names into a data base. It totally depends on what is on that CD they may well have made a superb CD with portraits and other additional information.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
-
Nathaniel Taylor
Leo's magnificent database (was re: Charlemagne Society)
In article <000e01c519db$5431a8c0$c3b4fea9@email>,
leovdpas@netspeed.com.au ("Leo van de Pas") wrote:
Leo,
I join all of us in appreciation of your marvellous database and
exemplary genealogical ethic!
I think you're overly optimistic about the number of my ancestors in
your database, though. I do find one line that seems to link to more
ancestors than warranted: the Despensers behind Margery le Despencer,
wife of Sir Roger Wentworth of Nettleshead (ancestor of Anne [Derehough]
Stratton of Salem, Mass.). I think the verdict is that her great-great
grandfather Philip le Despencer (m. Margaret de Goushill) is brother,
rather than son, to Hugh, Baron le Despencer who married Eleanor de
Clare, granddaughter of Edward I.
[see them all on your site in this big pedigree:
http://tinyurl.com/5m85r
]
It's nice to see Edward I in this tree when I visit your site but he
doesn't belong there, I think.
I can't cite a simple authority for this, but I know these Despencers
have been discussed here a few times. Cris Nash has looked into them,
and other regulars.
Nat Taylor
a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/
leovdpas@netspeed.com.au ("Leo van de Pas") wrote:
... If I had
done this with the following people how many ancestors would I have found?
...
Nathaniel Taylor 2,912 ancestors
Leo,
I join all of us in appreciation of your marvellous database and
exemplary genealogical ethic!
I think you're overly optimistic about the number of my ancestors in
your database, though. I do find one line that seems to link to more
ancestors than warranted: the Despensers behind Margery le Despencer,
wife of Sir Roger Wentworth of Nettleshead (ancestor of Anne [Derehough]
Stratton of Salem, Mass.). I think the verdict is that her great-great
grandfather Philip le Despencer (m. Margaret de Goushill) is brother,
rather than son, to Hugh, Baron le Despencer who married Eleanor de
Clare, granddaughter of Edward I.
[see them all on your site in this big pedigree:
http://tinyurl.com/5m85r
]
It's nice to see Edward I in this tree when I visit your site but he
doesn't belong there, I think.
I can't cite a simple authority for this, but I know these Despencers
have been discussed here a few times. Cris Nash has looked into them,
and other regulars.
Nat Taylor
a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/
-
Leo van de Pas
Re: Leo's magnificent database (was re: Charlemagne Society)
Dear Nat,
If I send you a file (not a CD
would you go through it and weed out
errors? You know better who your ancestors are than I do (sigh).
You would help me and others.
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nathaniel Taylor" <nathanieltaylor@earthlink.net>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 8:05 AM
Subject: Leo's magnificent database (was re: Charlemagne Society)
If I send you a file (not a CD
errors? You know better who your ancestors are than I do (sigh).
You would help me and others.
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nathaniel Taylor" <nathanieltaylor@earthlink.net>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 8:05 AM
Subject: Leo's magnificent database (was re: Charlemagne Society)
In article <000e01c519db$5431a8c0$c3b4fea9@email>,
leovdpas@netspeed.com.au ("Leo van de Pas") wrote:
... If I had
done this with the following people how many ancestors would I have
found?
...
Nathaniel Taylor 2,912 ancestors
Leo,
I join all of us in appreciation of your marvellous database and
exemplary genealogical ethic!
I think you're overly optimistic about the number of my ancestors in
your database, though. I do find one line that seems to link to more
ancestors than warranted: the Despensers behind Margery le Despencer,
wife of Sir Roger Wentworth of Nettleshead (ancestor of Anne [Derehough]
Stratton of Salem, Mass.). I think the verdict is that her great-great
grandfather Philip le Despencer (m. Margaret de Goushill) is brother,
rather than son, to Hugh, Baron le Despencer who married Eleanor de
Clare, granddaughter of Edward I.
[see them all on your site in this big pedigree:
http://tinyurl.com/5m85r
]
It's nice to see Edward I in this tree when I visit your site but he
doesn't belong there, I think.
I can't cite a simple authority for this, but I know these Despencers
have been discussed here a few times. Cris Nash has looked into them,
and other regulars.
Nat Taylor
a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/
-
Renia
Re: Charlemagne Society
Sorry, can't resist. What about DSH?
Renia
Leo van de Pas wrote:
Renia
Leo van de Pas wrote:
Denis Beauregard made a few valid observations, societies he is aware off charge because they do time consuming work, fair enough. Also to build up a data base takes time. I think after ten years I could have started my "Charlemagne Society" especially if I had concentrated more on American genealogy.
The difference is that the International Charlemagne Society expects people to come to them with an established line. They need to feed that information into their data base and link it to what they have already. Would this be 15 generations? 15 generations, husbands and wives, roughtly 30 people need to be added and who knows how many ancestors totally they can provide. If I had done this with the following people how many ancestors would I have found?
Gordon R. Hale Jr. 3,061 ancestors
Brom Nichol Jr 4,696 ancestors
Gary Boyd Roberts 3,370 ancestors
Richard Borthwick 6,136 ancestors
Doug McDonald 3,788 ancestors
Brice Clagett 5,825 ancestors
Ian Fettes 6,201 ancestors
Grant Menzies 4,465 ancestors
Kelsey Williams 5,118 ancestors
John Ravillious 5,120 ancestors
Malinda Jones 3,073 ancestors
Nathaniel Taylor 2,912 ancestors
Sam Sloan 3,445 ancestors
Louise Staley 3,813 ancestors
Tony Hoskins 3,045 ancestors
I am not mentioning people like William Addams Reitwiesner, Tim Powys-Lybbe, Peter de Loriol or John Steele Gordon as they have much larger numbers of ancestors in my data base
and they have done enormous amounts of work themselves.
In Australia a CD costs about $2 add to this wrapping and postage, would this be $10 ?
Charging $50 (US) with a cost of about $7 (US) still leaves a fair amount of money (in comparison) for entering about 30 names into a data base. It totally depends on what is on that CD they may well have made a superb CD with portraits and other additional information.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
-
Leo van de Pas
Re: Charlemagne Society
He guards his ancestry and is not sharing his knowledge about them.
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Renia" <renia@DELETEotenet.gr>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: Charlemagne Society
up a data base takes time. I think after ten years I could have started my
"Charlemagne Society" especially if I had concentrated more on American
genealogy.
information into their data base and link it to what they have already.
Would this be 15 generations? 15 generations, husbands and wives, roughtly
30 people need to be added and who knows how many ancestors totally they can
provide. If I had done this with the following people how many ancestors
would I have found?
numbers of ancestors in my data base
base. It totally depends on what is on that CD they may well have made a
superb CD with portraits and other additional information.
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Renia" <renia@DELETEotenet.gr>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: Charlemagne Society
Sorry, can't resist. What about DSH?
Renia
Leo van de Pas wrote:
Denis Beauregard made a few valid observations, societies he is aware
off charge because they do time consuming work, fair enough. Also to build
up a data base takes time. I think after ten years I could have started my
"Charlemagne Society" especially if I had concentrated more on American
genealogy.
The difference is that the International Charlemagne Society expects
people to come to them with an established line. They need to feed that
information into their data base and link it to what they have already.
Would this be 15 generations? 15 generations, husbands and wives, roughtly
30 people need to be added and who knows how many ancestors totally they can
provide. If I had done this with the following people how many ancestors
would I have found?
Gordon R. Hale Jr. 3,061 ancestors
Brom Nichol Jr 4,696 ancestors
Gary Boyd Roberts 3,370 ancestors
Richard Borthwick 6,136 ancestors
Doug McDonald 3,788 ancestors
Brice Clagett 5,825 ancestors
Ian Fettes 6,201 ancestors
Grant Menzies 4,465 ancestors
Kelsey Williams 5,118 ancestors
John Ravillious 5,120 ancestors
Malinda Jones 3,073 ancestors
Nathaniel Taylor 2,912 ancestors
Sam Sloan 3,445 ancestors
Louise Staley 3,813 ancestors
Tony Hoskins 3,045 ancestors
I am not mentioning people like William Addams Reitwiesner, Tim
Powys-Lybbe, Peter de Loriol or John Steele Gordon as they have much larger
numbers of ancestors in my data base
and they have done enormous amounts of work themselves.
In Australia a CD costs about $2 add to this wrapping and postage,
would this be $10 ?
Charging $50 (US) with a cost of about $7 (US) still leaves a fair
amount of money (in comparison) for entering about 30 names into a data
base. It totally depends on what is on that CD they may well have made a
superb CD with portraits and other additional information.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
-
D. Spencer Hines
Re: Charlemagne Society
Hmmmmmmmm...
Where are Peter Stewart's numbered ancestors -- John Carmi Parsons'
numbered ancestors -- and the numbered ancestors of Don Stone, Todd
Farmerie, Leo van de Pas and Renia Simmonds -- with accompanying
Ahnentafeln?
Curiouser & Curiouser....
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
| > > Gordon R. Hale Jr. 3,061 ancestors
| > > Brom Nichol Jr 4,696 ancestors
| > > Gary Boyd Roberts 3,370 ancestors
| > > Richard Borthwick 6,136 ancestors
| > > Doug McDonald 3,788 ancestors
| > > Brice Clagett 5,825 ancestors
| > > Ian Fettes 6,201 ancestors
| > > Grant Menzies 4,465 ancestors
| > > Kelsey Williams 5,118 ancestors
| > > John Ravillious 5,120 ancestors
| > > Malinda Jones 3,073 ancestors
| > > Nathaniel Taylor 2,912 ancestors
| > > Sam Sloan 3,445 ancestors
| > > Louise Staley 3,813 ancestors
| > > Tony Hoskins 3,045 ancestors
| > >
| > > I am not mentioning people like William Addams Reitwiesner, Tim
| Powys-Lybbe, Peter de Loriol or John Steele Gordon as they have much
larger
| numbers of ancestors in my data base
| > > and they have done enormous amounts of work themselves.
| > >
| > > In Australia a CD costs about $2 add to this wrapping and
postage,
| would this be $10 ?
| > > Charging $50 (US) with a cost of about $7 (US) still leaves a fair
| amount of money (in comparison) for entering about 30 names into a
data
| base. It totally depends on what is on that CD they may well have made
a
| superb CD with portraits and other additional information.
| > >
| > > Best wishes
| > > Leo van de Pas
| > > Canberra, Australia
Where are Peter Stewart's numbered ancestors -- John Carmi Parsons'
numbered ancestors -- and the numbered ancestors of Don Stone, Todd
Farmerie, Leo van de Pas and Renia Simmonds -- with accompanying
Ahnentafeln?
Curiouser & Curiouser....
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
| > > Gordon R. Hale Jr. 3,061 ancestors
| > > Brom Nichol Jr 4,696 ancestors
| > > Gary Boyd Roberts 3,370 ancestors
| > > Richard Borthwick 6,136 ancestors
| > > Doug McDonald 3,788 ancestors
| > > Brice Clagett 5,825 ancestors
| > > Ian Fettes 6,201 ancestors
| > > Grant Menzies 4,465 ancestors
| > > Kelsey Williams 5,118 ancestors
| > > John Ravillious 5,120 ancestors
| > > Malinda Jones 3,073 ancestors
| > > Nathaniel Taylor 2,912 ancestors
| > > Sam Sloan 3,445 ancestors
| > > Louise Staley 3,813 ancestors
| > > Tony Hoskins 3,045 ancestors
| > >
| > > I am not mentioning people like William Addams Reitwiesner, Tim
| Powys-Lybbe, Peter de Loriol or John Steele Gordon as they have much
larger
| numbers of ancestors in my data base
| > > and they have done enormous amounts of work themselves.
| > >
| > > In Australia a CD costs about $2 add to this wrapping and
postage,
| would this be $10 ?
| > > Charging $50 (US) with a cost of about $7 (US) still leaves a fair
| amount of money (in comparison) for entering about 30 names into a
data
| base. It totally depends on what is on that CD they may well have made
a
| superb CD with portraits and other additional information.
| > >
| > > Best wishes
| > > Leo van de Pas
| > > Canberra, Australia
-
norenxaq
Re: Charlemagne Society
Leo van de Pas wrote:
perhaps because he knows it's fake?
:>
He guards his ancestry and is not sharing his knowledge about them.
Leo
perhaps because he knows it's fake?
:>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Renia" <renia@DELETEotenet.gr
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: Charlemagne Society
Sorry, can't resist. What about DSH?
Renia
Leo van de Pas wrote:
Denis Beauregard made a few valid observations, societies he is aware
off charge because they do time consuming work, fair enough. Also to build
up a data base takes time. I think after ten years I could have started my
"Charlemagne Society" especially if I had concentrated more on American
genealogy.
The difference is that the International Charlemagne Society expects
people to come to them with an established line. They need to feed that
information into their data base and link it to what they have already.
Would this be 15 generations? 15 generations, husbands and wives, roughtly
30 people need to be added and who knows how many ancestors totally they can
provide. If I had done this with the following people how many ancestors
would I have found?
Gordon R. Hale Jr. 3,061 ancestors
Brom Nichol Jr 4,696 ancestors
Gary Boyd Roberts 3,370 ancestors
Richard Borthwick 6,136 ancestors
Doug McDonald 3,788 ancestors
Brice Clagett 5,825 ancestors
Ian Fettes 6,201 ancestors
Grant Menzies 4,465 ancestors
Kelsey Williams 5,118 ancestors
John Ravillious 5,120 ancestors
Malinda Jones 3,073 ancestors
Nathaniel Taylor 2,912 ancestors
Sam Sloan 3,445 ancestors
Louise Staley 3,813 ancestors
Tony Hoskins 3,045 ancestors
I am not mentioning people like William Addams Reitwiesner, Tim
Powys-Lybbe, Peter de Loriol or John Steele Gordon as they have much larger
numbers of ancestors in my data base
and they have done enormous amounts of work themselves.
In Australia a CD costs about $2 add to this wrapping and postage,
would this be $10 ?
Charging $50 (US) with a cost of about $7 (US) still leaves a fair
amount of money (in comparison) for entering about 30 names into a data
base. It totally depends on what is on that CD they may well have made a
superb CD with portraits and other additional information.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
-
Nathaniel Taylor
Re: Leo's magnificent database (was re: Charlemagne Society)
In article <000f01c519f6$55bc9a40$c3b4fea9@email>,
leovdpas@netspeed.com.au ("Leo van de Pas") wrote:
Perhaps, though I in fact maintain no personal database of medieval
ancestors, and with a well-directed database query you will undoubtedly
know more about them than I. The one corrigendum I have just pointed
out is in the ancestry of many, many people, and is the only one I have
spotted in my quick perusal of your db!
All the same, I'd be happy to have a file which represents your
database's record of ancestors of my apparent gateways.
Nat Taylor
a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/
leovdpas@netspeed.com.au ("Leo van de Pas") wrote:
Dear Nat,
If I send you a file (not a CDwould you go through it and weed out
errors? You know better who your ancestors are than I do (sigh).
Perhaps, though I in fact maintain no personal database of medieval
ancestors, and with a well-directed database query you will undoubtedly
know more about them than I. The one corrigendum I have just pointed
out is in the ancestry of many, many people, and is the only one I have
spotted in my quick perusal of your db!
All the same, I'd be happy to have a file which represents your
database's record of ancestors of my apparent gateways.
Nat Taylor
a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/
-
Douglas Richardson royala
Re: Leo's magnificent database (was re: Charlemagne Society)
Nathaniel Taylor wrote:
Personally I like Leo's photographs of Raquel Welch. They're a nice
touch.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
In article <000e01c519db$5431a8c0$c3b4fea9@email>,
leovdpas@netspeed.com.au ("Leo van de Pas") wrote:
Leo,
I join all of us in appreciation of your marvellous database and
exemplary genealogical ethic!
Personally I like Leo's photographs of Raquel Welch. They're a nice
touch.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
-
Leo van de Pas
Re: Leo's magnificent database (was re: Charlemagne Society)
----- Original Message -----
From: <royalancestry@msn.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 6:56 PM
it is several hundred years old and it looks just like a photograph.
Leo
From: <royalancestry@msn.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 6:56 PM
Personally I like Leo's photographs of Raquel Welch. They're a nice
touch.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Personally, my favourite is the portrait of the Great Bastard of Burgundy,
it is several hundred years old and it looks just like a photograph.
Leo
-
Doug McDonald
Re: Charlemagne Society
Leo van de Pas wrote:
the Internet? The only place on the Internet that you will
find my own pedigree is on Leo's site, but you can find
those of my father and mother, at least a few generations,
on lots of those pay-for-view tree sites. With serious
errors in earlier generations, of course. I am NOT a
cousin of Lizzie Borden, for instance, though I am of Jesse
James.
And coincidentally I just yesterday got from my cousin the
complete documentation she used to get into to DAR. It's
quite a pile and quite strong.
Doug McDonald
He [DSH] guards his ancestry and is not sharing his knowledge about them.
Leo
But can anybody find it or that of his well-known father on
the Internet? The only place on the Internet that you will
find my own pedigree is on Leo's site, but you can find
those of my father and mother, at least a few generations,
on lots of those pay-for-view tree sites. With serious
errors in earlier generations, of course. I am NOT a
cousin of Lizzie Borden, for instance, though I am of Jesse
James.
And coincidentally I just yesterday got from my cousin the
complete documentation she used to get into to DAR. It's
quite a pile and quite strong.
Doug McDonald
-
norenxaq
Re: Charlemagne Society
Doug McDonald wrote:
would you post your lineage back to Somerlad here?
Leo van de Pas wrote:
He [DSH] guards his ancestry and is not sharing his knowledge about them.
Leo
But can anybody find it or that of his well-known father on
the Internet? The only place on the Internet that you will
find my own pedigree is on Leo's site, but you can find
those of my father and mother, at least a few generations,
on lots of those pay-for-view tree sites. With serious
errors in earlier generations, of course. I am NOT a
cousin of Lizzie Borden, for instance, though I am of Jesse
James.
would you post your lineage back to Somerlad here?
-
Cristopher Nash
Re: Leo's magnificent database (was re: Charlemagne Society)
Nathaniel Taylor wrote --
Yes Leo, just as backup - I do still think this is as Nat says!
Just in case it might be sthg you'd like to play with, here's one I
did earlier. (I mean that literally! I've not revisited it in a
couple of years & it clearly needs some work - at least some
in-filling!)
Sir Hugh 'the Elder' Le Despenser, Earl of Winchester
b. 1 Mar 1260/1261
d. 27 Oct 1326
& Isabel de Beauchamp
| Sir Philip Le Despenser
| d. 24 Sep 1313
| & Margaret de Gousille
| b. 12 May 1294
| d. 29 Jul 1349
| | Sir Philip Le Despenser
| | b. 6 Apr or 24 Sep 1313
| | d. 22/23 Aug 1349
| | & Joan ?de Cobham ?
| | d. sh bef 15 May 1357
| | | Sir Philip Le Despenser
| | | b. 18 Oct 1342, Gedney, Lincs
| | | d. 4 Aug 1401
| | | & Elizabeth ----
| | | d. bef 4 Aug 1401, bur Abbey of Newhouse, Lincs
| | | | Sir Philip Le Despenser, 2d Ld Despenser
| | | | d. 20 Jun 1424
| | | | & Elizabeth de Tibetot
| | | | | Margaret/Margery Le Despenser*
| | | | | b. ca 1397 or 1398/1400
| | | | | d. 20 Apr 1478
| | | | | & Sir Roger Wentworth
| | | | | d. 21 or 24 Oct 1452
| | | | | m. bef 25 Jun 1423
| | | | | & John de Roos, Lord Roos
| | | | | d. 22 Mar 1420/1
| Sir Hugh 'the Younger' Le Despenser
| d. 24 Nov 1326
Note that the _number_ of Philips actually matches yours, but the 2
between P who m. Margaret de Goushille & the P who m. Elizabeth de
Tibetot don't quite match yours...? I'd love to know more about (a)
your Joan Strange and Margaret Cobham and (b) my 'Elizabeth -- d. bef
4 Aug 1401'...?
All the best,
Cris
--
the Despensers behind Margery le Despencer,
wife of Sir Roger Wentworth of Nettleshead (ancestor of Anne [Derehough]
Stratton of Salem, Mass.). I think the verdict is that her great-great
grandfather Philip le Despencer (m. Margaret de Goushill) is brother,
rather than son, to Hugh, Baron le Despencer who married Eleanor de
Clare, granddaughter of Edward I.
[see them all on your site in this big pedigree:
http://tinyurl.com/5m85r
Yes Leo, just as backup - I do still think this is as Nat says!
Just in case it might be sthg you'd like to play with, here's one I
did earlier. (I mean that literally! I've not revisited it in a
couple of years & it clearly needs some work - at least some
in-filling!)
Sir Hugh 'the Elder' Le Despenser, Earl of Winchester
b. 1 Mar 1260/1261
d. 27 Oct 1326
& Isabel de Beauchamp
| Sir Philip Le Despenser
| d. 24 Sep 1313
| & Margaret de Gousille
| b. 12 May 1294
| d. 29 Jul 1349
| | Sir Philip Le Despenser
| | b. 6 Apr or 24 Sep 1313
| | d. 22/23 Aug 1349
| | & Joan ?de Cobham ?
| | d. sh bef 15 May 1357
| | | Sir Philip Le Despenser
| | | b. 18 Oct 1342, Gedney, Lincs
| | | d. 4 Aug 1401
| | | & Elizabeth ----
| | | d. bef 4 Aug 1401, bur Abbey of Newhouse, Lincs
| | | | Sir Philip Le Despenser, 2d Ld Despenser
| | | | d. 20 Jun 1424
| | | | & Elizabeth de Tibetot
| | | | | Margaret/Margery Le Despenser*
| | | | | b. ca 1397 or 1398/1400
| | | | | d. 20 Apr 1478
| | | | | & Sir Roger Wentworth
| | | | | d. 21 or 24 Oct 1452
| | | | | m. bef 25 Jun 1423
| | | | | & John de Roos, Lord Roos
| | | | | d. 22 Mar 1420/1
| Sir Hugh 'the Younger' Le Despenser
| d. 24 Nov 1326
Note that the _number_ of Philips actually matches yours, but the 2
between P who m. Margaret de Goushille & the P who m. Elizabeth de
Tibetot don't quite match yours...? I'd love to know more about (a)
your Joan Strange and Margaret Cobham and (b) my 'Elizabeth -- d. bef
4 Aug 1401'...?
All the best,
Cris
--
-
Gjest
Re: Charlemagne Society
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 00:39:50 +0000 (UTC), leovdpas@netspeed.com.au ("Leo van de
Pas") wrote:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc ... ode=source
Pas") wrote:
From: "Renia" <renia@DELETEotenet.gr
Sorry, can't resist. What about DSH?
He guards his ancestry and is not sharing his knowledge about them.
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc ... ode=source
-
Doug McDonald
Re: Charlemagne Society
norenxaq wrote:
If by "lineage" you mean the all-male line, I don't have it:
my great grandfather is a brick wall. If you mean the mixed line,
it is attached. I am known to be a male-line descendant of Somerled,
or a close relative by DNA, by not by paper trail.
First Generation
1. James Douglas McDonald, son of Benjamin Patrick
McDonald and Dorothy Nell Collins(1).
Second Generation (Parents)
2. Benjamin Patrick McDonald,(2) son of Benjamin Hill
McDonald and Ella May Toland.
3. Dorothy Nell Collins (2).
Third Generation (Grandparents)
4. Benjamin Hill McDonald,(2) son of Reddin Burkhalter
McDonald and Caroline Matilda Rose, was born on
Oct 20, 1861 in Elba, Coffee Co., AL and died on
Jan 23, 1940 in Ft.Worth, Tarrant Co. TX.
5. Ella May Toland was born on Oct 5, 1878 in Marlin,
Falls Co., TX and died on Jul 5, 1965 in Ft.Worth,
Tarrant Co. TX.
Fourth Generation (Great Grandparents)
8. Reddin Burkhalter McDonald (3) was born in Jan 1818
in GA and died on Mar 21, 1901 in Cross Plains,
Callahan Co., TX.
9. Caroline Matilda Rose,(4) daughter of Hugh F. Rose
M.D. and Elizabeth Robertson, was born on Jul 24,
1833 in Jones Co. GA (5) and died on Dec 12, 1881
in Ranger, Eastland Co., TX (5).
Fifth Generation (Great Great Grandparents)
18. Hugh F. Rose M.D.,(4) son of Col. Hugh Rose and
Caroline Matilda Jordan, was born in 1785 and died
in 1842.
19. Elizabeth Robertson died in 1841 in Lumpkin Ga.
Sixth Generation (3rd Great Grandparents)
36. Col. Hugh Rose,(4) son of Rev. Robert Rose and Anne
Fitzhugh, was born on Sep 18, 1743 in Stafford
County, Virginia and died on Oct 18, 1794 in
Amherst County, Virginia.
37. Caroline Matilda Jordan (4) died about 1809.
Seventh Generation (4th Great Grandparents)
72. Rev. Robert Rose,(4) son of John Rose of Wester
Alves, Scotland and Margaret Grant, was born on
Feb 12, 1704 in Wester Alves, Scotland and died on
Jun 30, 1751.
73. Anne Fitzhugh (6) was born in 1720 and died in
1789. (Note: a descendant of Henry I King of England
through the immigrant William Ironmonger.)
Eighth Generation (5th Great Grandparents)
144. John Rose of Wester Alves, Scotland,(4, 7,
son
of Patrick Rose of Lochihills and Margaret
Tulloch, was born about 1666 and died on Apr 13,
1724.
145. Margaret Grant,(8) daughter of Patrick Grant of
Whytree, died in 1774.
Ninth Generation (6th Great Grandparents)
288. Patrick Rose of Lochihills,(4, 8, 9, 10) son of
Hugh Rose of Logie, Darnaway and Katherine Ord,
was born about 1636 and died on Mar 31, 1727.
289. Margaret Tulloch (11).
290. Patrick Grant of Whytree,(12) son of John Grant 5th
of Ballindalloch and Elizabeth Innes, died before
Nov 11, 1698.
Tenth Generation (7th Great Grandparents)
576. Hugh Rose of Logie, Darnaway,(13) son of John Rose
of Bellivat and Margaret Falconer, was born in
1569-1589. This is the standard and accepted mother,
and given in RD600. However, I am concerned that
the mother of Hugh Rose may in fact have been
Christian Gordon (not 37141, of course).
577. Katherine Ord (9) was born in Finachty.
580. John Grant 5th of Ballindalloch, son of Patrick
Grant 4th of Ballindalloch and Helen Ogilvie, was
born about 1596 and died about 1679.
581. Elizabeth Innes .
Eleventh Generation (8th Great Grandparents)
1152. John Rose of Bellivat,(14) son of John Rose of
Bellivat and Janet Urquhart, was born about 1547.
1153. Margaret Falconer,(8, 10) daughter of Alexander
Falconer of Halkerton and Elizabeth Douglas, was
born about 1547 and died before 1606.
1160. Patrick Grant 4th of Ballindalloch, son of Patrick
Grant 3rd of Ballindalloch and Grizel Grant, died
before 1649.
1161. Helen Ogilvie died before 1621.
Twelfth Generation (9th Great Grandparents)
2304. John Rose of Bellivat,(15) son of John Rose of
Bellivat and Marjory Dunbar, was born about 1526.
2305. Janet Urquhart .
2306. Alexander Falconer of Halkerton (16, 17, 18) was
born about 1523 and died on Nov 10, 1587 in
Lethen, Narnshire.
2307. Elizabeth Douglas,(16, 19) daughter of Sir
Archibald Douglas of Glenbervie and Agnes Keith.
2320. Patrick Grant 3rd of Ballindalloch, son of John
Grant 2nd of Ballindalloch and Barbara Gordon,
died on Sep 8, 1586.
2321. Grizel Grant,(20) daughter of John "The Gentle"
Grant 4th of Freuchie and Lady Margaret Stewart.
Thirteenth Generation (10th Great Grandparents)
4608. John Rose of Bellivat,(15) son of Hugh Rose 8th
Baron Kilravock and Margaret Gordon, was born
before 1505 and died before Feb 1573-1574.
4609. Marjory Dunbar (10, 21, 22) died after 1573.
4614. Sir Archibald Douglas of Glenbervie,(23) son of
Sir William Douglas of Glenbervie and Elizabeth
Auchinleck, was born about 1502 in Glenbervie,
Scot. and died on Sep 29, 1570.
4615. Agnes Keith (24).
4640. John Grant 2nd of Ballindalloch, son of Patrick
Grant 1st of Ballindalloch, died on Sep 11, 1559.
4641. Barbara Gordon was born about 1502 in Gight,
Aberdeen, Scotland (25).
4642. John "The Gentle" Grant 4th of Freuchie,(26) son
of James Grant 3rd of Freuchie and Elizabeth
Forbes, was born in 1507 and died on Jun 2, 1585
in Ballachastell.
4643. Lady Margaret Stewart,(27) daughter of John
Stewart 3rd Earl of Atholl and Grizel Rattray,
died in 1555.
Fourteenth Generation (11th Great Grandparents)
9216. Hugh Rose 8th Baron Kilravock,(9, 28) son of Hugh
Rose 7th Baron Kilravock and Moira Macintosh, was
born in Scotland and died on Mar 17, 1516-1517.
9217. Margaret Gordon (28) died in 1506.
9228. Sir William Douglas of Glenbervie,(29) son of
Archibald Douglas 5th Earl of Angus and Elizabeth
Boyd, was born about 1470 in Glenbervie, KINC,
Scot. and died on Sep 9, 1513 in Flodden,
Northumbria.
9229. Elizabeth Auchinleck (30) was born about 1470 in
Glenbervie, KINC, Scot.
9280. Patrick Grant 1st of Ballindalloch,(31) son of
John Grant ygr of Freuchie and Muriel Mackintosh,
was born in 1468 and died after Jun 8, 1555.
9284. James Grant 3rd of Freuchie,(32) son of John Grant
2nd of Freuchie and Margaret Ogilvy of Deskford,
was born about 1485 in Freuchie, died on Aug 29,
1553 in Freuchie, and was buried in Parish Church,
Duthil.
9285. Elizabeth Forbes,(33, 34) daughter of John Forbes
6th Lord Forbes and Catherine Stewart.
9286. John Stewart 3rd Earl of Atholl,(35) son of John
Stewart 2nd Earl of Atholl and Janet Campbell, was
born in 1507 and died in 1542.
9287. Grizel Rattray (30) died before Mar 1542.
Fifteenth Generation (12th Great Grandparents)
18432. Hugh Rose 7th Baron Kilravock (36) died in 1494.
18433. Moira Macintosh,(9, 37) daughter of Malcolm
Mackintosh 10th of Mackintosh and Moira Macdonald.
18456. Archibald Douglas 5th Earl of Angus,(38, 39) son
of George Douglas 4th Earl of Angus and Isabella
Sibbald, was born about 1449 in Kilmauers, AYR,
Scot. and died on Nov 30, 1513 in Whithorn
Priory,,Scot.
18457. Elizabeth Boyd (30, 40) was born about 1458 in
Kilmarnock, RENF, Scot. and died before Feb 21,
1496-1497.
18560. John Grant ygr of Freuchie (41) died before Sep
16, 1483 in Kindrochat, Mar, and was buried in
Cathedral church of Moray.
18561. Muriel Mackintosh,(42) daughter of Malcolm
Mackintosh 10th of Mackintosh and Moira Macdonald,
was born in 1426.
18568. John Grant 2nd of Freuchie,(43) son of John Grant
ygr of Freuchie and Muriel Mackintosh, was born in
1468 and died on May 1, 1528 in Inverness.
18569. Margaret Ogilvy of Deskford (44).
18570. John Forbes 6th Lord Forbes,(45) son of William
Forbes 3rd Lord Forbes and Lady Christian Gordon,
was born in 1472 and died in 1547.
18571. Catherine Stewart,(34, 46, 47) daughter of John
Stewart 1st Earl of Atholl and Margaret Douglas.
18572. John Stewart 2nd Earl of Atholl,(48) son of John
Stewart 1st Earl of Atholl and Eleanor Sinclair,
died in 1521.
18573. Janet Campbell,(49) daughter of Archibald
Campbell 2nd Earl of Argyll and Elizabeth Stewart,
died in Feb 1546.
Sixteenth Generation (13th Great Grandparents)
36866. Malcolm Mackintosh 10th of Mackintosh (11, 37)
died in 1464.
36867. Moira Macdonald,(50, 51, 52) daughter of Allan
Macdonald 2nd of Chief of Clanranald, was born in
1398 in Moydart, Scotland.
36912. George Douglas 4th Earl of Angus,(53) son of Sir
William Douglas 2nd Earl of Angus and Margaret
(Elizabeth) Hay, was born about 1415 in Mar, ABER,
Scot. and died on Mar 12, 1462-1463.
36913. Isabella Sibbald (30) was born about 1422 in
Balgonie, FIFE, Scot. and died before Feb 1503.
37122. Malcolm Mackintosh 10th of Mackintosh (11, 37)
died in 1464.
37123. Moira Macdonald,(50, 51, 52) daughter of Allan
Macdonald 2nd of Chief of Clanranald, was born in
1398 in Moydart, Scotland.
37136. John Grant ygr of Freuchie (41) died before Sep
16, 1483 in Kindrochat, Mar, and was buried in
Cathedral church of Moray.
37137. Muriel Mackintosh,(42) daughter of Malcolm
Mackintosh 10th of Mackintosh and Moira Macdonald,
was born in 1426.
37140. William Forbes 3rd Lord Forbes,(54) son of James
Forbes 2nd Lord Forbes and Egidia (Gille) Keith,
died before Jul 5, 1483.
37141. Lady Christian Gordon (55).
37142. John Stewart 1st Earl of Atholl,(56, 57, 58, 59,
60, 61, 62) son of Sir James Stewart "the Black
Knight of Lorn" and Joan Beaufort, was born about
1442 in Balveny Castle, Mortlach, Banffshire,
Scotland, died on Sep 15, 1512 in Laighwood,
Perthshire, Scotland, and was buried in Cathedral,
Laighwood, Perthshire, Scotland.
37143. Margaret Douglas (30) died before 1475.
37144. John Stewart 1st Earl of Atholl,(56, 57, 58, 59,
60, 61, 62) son of Sir James Stewart "the Black
Knight of Lorn" and Joan Beaufort, was born about
1442 in Balveny Castle, Mortlach, Banffshire,
Scotland, died on Sep 15, 1512 in Laighwood,
Perthshire, Scotland, and was buried in Cathedral,
Laighwood, Perthshire, Scotland.
37145. Eleanor Sinclair,(61) daughter of William
Sinclair 3rd Earl of Orkney, Earl of Caithness and
Marjory Sutherland, died on Mar 21, 1518, and was
buried in Dunkeld Cathedral.
37146. Archibald Campbell 2nd Earl of Argyll,(63, 64,
65) son of Colin Campbell 1st Earl of Argyll and
Isabel Stewart, was born before 1468 and died on
Sep 9, 1513 in Flodden (in battle).
37147. Elizabeth Stewart (66).
Seventeenth Generation (14th Great Grandparents)
73734. Allan Macdonald 2nd of Chief of Clanranald,(67)
son of Ranald Macdonald 1st Chief of Clanranald,
died after 1428.
73824. Sir William Douglas 2nd Earl of Angus,(68, 69)
son of George Douglas 1st Earl of Angus and Mary
Stewart, was born about 1399 in Mar, ABER, Scot.
and died in Oct 1437.
73825. Margaret (Elizabeth) Hay (70) was born about
1404 in Locherworth, Edinburgh, MLOT, Scot. and
died after 1484.
74280. James Forbes 2nd Lord Forbes,(71) son of
Alexander De Forbes 1st Lord Forbes and Elizabeth
Douglas, was born in 1435 and died in 1460.
74281. Egidia (Gille) Keith (30) was born in 1445.
74284. Sir James Stewart "the Black Knight of Lorn",(72)
son of Sir John Stewart of Innermeath and Isabel
de Ergadia.
74285. Joan Beaufort (73, 74) was born in 1398 in
Westminster and died on Jul 15, 1445 in Dunbar
Castle.
74290. William Sinclair 3rd Earl of Orkney, Earl of
Caithness (59, 61, 75, 76, 77, 78) was born about
1404 and died in 1480.
74291. Marjory Sutherland,(57, 79, 80) daughter of
Alexander Sutherland of Dunbeath and Mariota
Macdonald.
74292. Colin Campbell 1st Earl of Argyll (81) died on
May 10, 1493.
74293. Isabel Stewart,(30) daughter of John Stewart 2nd
Lord Lorn, died on Oct 26, 1510.
Eighteenth Generation (15th Great Grandparents)
147468. Ranald Macdonald 1st Chief of Clanranald,(82)
son of John Macdonald of Islay, 1st Lord of the
Isles and Amy MacRuairi of Garmoran, died about
1386 in Castle Tioram, Scotland.
147648. George Douglas 1st Earl of Angus,(83, 84) son of
William Douglas 1st Earl of Douglas and Margaret
Stewart Countess of Angus, was born about 1380 in
Mar, ABER, Scot. and died after Sep 14, 1402 in
Homildon, LANC, Eng.
147649. Mary Stewart (83, 84, 85) was born about 1380
in Dumfermline, FIFE, Scot., died after 1458 in
Strathblane, STIR, Scot., and was buried in
Strathblane, STIR, Scot.
148560. Alexander De Forbes 1st Lord Forbes (86) was
born in 1404 and died in 1448.
148561. Elizabeth Douglas,(87) daughter of George
Douglas 1st Earl of Angus and Mary Stewart, died
after 1439.
148568. Sir John Stewart of Innermeath (88) died on Apr
26, 1421.
148569. Isabel de Ergadia,(89) daughter of John Mac Alan
and Jonet Isaac, was born about 1352 and died on
Dec 21, 1439.
148582. Alexander Sutherland of Dunbeath (90) died about
1455.
148583. Mariota Macdonald,(91) daughter of Donald
Macdonald Lord of the Isles and Earl of Ross and
Margaret (Mary or Mariota) Leslie.
148586. John Stewart 2nd Lord Lorn,(92) son of Robert
Stewart 1st Lord Lorn and Joanna Stewart, died on
Dec 20, 1463 in Dunstaffnage,Argyll,Scotland.
Nineteenth Generation (16th Great Grandparents)
294936. John Macdonald of Islay, 1st Lord of the
Isles,(93) son of Angus Og Macdonald and Agnes O'
Cathan, died in 1386 in Ardtornish Castle.
294937. Amy MacRuairi of Garmoran (30).
295296. William Douglas 1st Earl of Douglas (94) was
born about 1327 and died in May 1384.
295297. Margaret Stewart Countess of Angus,(95) daughter
of Thomas Stewart 2nd Earl of Angus and Margaret
Sinclair, died in 1417.
297122. George Douglas 1st Earl of Angus,(83, 84) son of
William Douglas 1st Earl of Douglas and Margaret
Stewart Countess of Angus, was born about 1380 in
Mar, ABER, Scot. and died after Sep 14, 1402 in
Homildon, LANC, Eng.
297123. Mary Stewart (83, 84, 85) was born about 1380
in Dumfermline, FIFE, Scot., died after 1458 in
Strathblane, STIR, Scot., and was buried in
Strathblane, STIR, Scot.
297138. John Mac Alan,(96) son of Alan of Argyll, died
after 1368.
297139. Jonet Isaac (97) was born about 1344.
297166. Donald Macdonald Lord of the Isles and Earl of
Ross,(98) son of John Macdonald of Islay, 1st Lord
of the Isles and Margaret Stewart, was born in
1364 and died in 1423 in Morven.
297167. Margaret (Mary or Mariota) Leslie,(99, 100)
daughter of Walter Leslie Earl of Ross and
Euphemia Ross Countess of Ross.
297172. Robert Stewart 1st Lord Lorn,(92) son of Sir
John Stewart of Innermeath and Isabel de Ergadia,
died in 1449.
297173. Joanna Stewart (101) was born about 1368.
Twentieth Generation (17th Great Grandparents)
589872. Angus Og Macdonald,(102) son of Angus Mor
Macdonald Lord of the Isles and Campbell, died in
1329.
589873. Agnes O' Cathan (30).
590594. Thomas Stewart 2nd Earl of Angus,(103) son of
John Stewart 1st Earl of Angus and Margaret
Abernethy Lady of Abernethy, died in 1361 in
Dumbarton Castle.
590595. Margaret Sinclair (30).
594276. Alan of Argyll,(96) son of John of the Isles.
594332. John Macdonald of Islay, 1st Lord of the
Isles,(93) son of Angus Og Macdonald and Agnes O'
Cathan, died in 1386 in Ardtornish Castle.
594333. Margaret Stewart (30).
594334. Walter Leslie Earl of Ross,(30) son of Andrew
Leslie 6th Lord Leslie and Mary Abernethy, died on
Feb 27, 1381.
594335. Euphemia Ross Countess of Ross,(100) daughter of
William Ross 5th Earl of Ross and Mary Macdonald.
594344. Sir John Stewart of Innermeath (88) died on Apr
26, 1421.
594345. Isabel de Ergadia,(89) daughter of John Mac Alan
and Jonet Isaac, was born about 1352 and died on
Dec 21, 1439.
Twenty-first Generation (18th Great Grandparents)
1179744. Angus Mor Macdonald Lord of the Isles,(30) son
of Donald MacRanald of the Isles, died about 1296.
1179745. Campbell (30).
1181188. John Stewart 1st Earl of Angus (104) died on
Dec 9, 1331.
1181189. Margaret Abernethy Lady of Abernethy,(30)
daughter of Alexander Abernethy.
1188552. John of the Isles,(96) son of Alexander Lord of
Argyll, died in 1316.
1188668. Andrew Leslie 6th Lord Leslie (30) died before
Nov 28, 1324.
1188669. Mary Abernethy,(30) daughter of Alexander
Abernethy, was born about 1295 in Abernethy,
Fifeshire, Scotland and died before Nov 19, 1355
in Lindores Abbey, Fife, Scotland.
1188670. William Ross 5th Earl of Ross (105) died on Feb
9, 1371-1372.
1188671. Mary Macdonald,(106) daughter of Angus Og
Macdonald and Agnes O' Cathan.
Twenty-second Generation (19th Great Grandparents)
2359488. Donald MacRanald of the Isles,(107) son of
Reginald Lord of the Isles, died in 1269.
2362378. Alexander Abernethy,(30) son of Hugh Abernethy
and Mary of Agyll, died before 1317.
2377104. Alexander Lord of Argyll,(96) son of Ewen
(John) of the Isles, died in 1310.
2377338. Alexander Abernethy,(30) son of Hugh Abernethy
and Mary of Agyll, died before 1317.
2377342. Angus Og Macdonald,(102) son of Angus Mor
Macdonald Lord of the Isles and Campbell, died in
1329.
2377343. Agnes O' Cathan (30).
Twenty-third Generation (20th Great Grandparents)
4718976. Reginald Lord of the Isles,(107, 108) son of
Somerled MacGillebride and Ragnhild Olafsdottir,
was born in 1141 and died in 1207.
4724756. Hugh Abernethy (30) died after 1291.
4724757. Mary of Agyll,(30, 96) daughter of Ewen (John)
of the Isles, died in 1304.
4754208. Ewen (John) of the Isles,(96) son of Duncan of
the Isles.
Twenty-fourth Generation (21st Great Grandparents)
9437952. Somerled MacGillebride (109) was born in 1100
and died in 1164 in Renfrew, Strathclyde,
Scotland.
9437953. Ragnhild Olafsdottir (110, 111) was born
before 1125 in Isle of Man.
9449514. Ewen (John) of the Isles,(96) son of Duncan of
the Isles.
9508416. Duncan of the Isles,(96) son of Dugald of the
Isles.
Twenty-fifth Generation (22nd Great Grandparents)
19016832. Dugald of the Isles,(30, 96) son of Somerled
MacGillebride and Ragnhild Olafsdottir.
Twenty-sixth Generation (23rd Great Grandparents)
38033664. Somerled MacGillebride (109) was born in 1100
and died in 1164 in Renfrew, Strathclyde,
Scotland.
38033665. Ragnhild Olafsdottir (110, 111) was born
before 1125 in Isle of Man.
------------------------------------------------------------
Sources
1. birth certificate, in hand.
2. family Bible.
3. Christine Rose, Ancestors and Descendents of the
Brothers Rev. Robert Rose and Rev. Charles Rose, (San
Jose, California 1985), Information in this book came
from Ann Barker, sister of B. P. McDonald. Actual data,
birth certificates, marriage certificates, etc. are
in my files.
4. Christine Rose, Ancestors and Descendents of the
Brothers Rev. Robert Rose and Rev. Charles Rose, (San
Jose, California 1985).
5. (tombstone).
6. Fitzhugh, The Story of a Family Through Six Centuries by
Terrick Fitzhugh and
The History of our Fitzhugh Family by Henry Antonie
Fitzhugh (published together).
7. Ralph Emmett Fall, ed., The Diary of Robert Rose,
(McClure Press, 1977).
8. The matriculation of Murray Fontaine Rose in the
College of Arms of Scotland,
Ma 10, 1985).
9. Hugh Rose, Lachlan Shaw, C. Innes, Rose Family of
Kilravock, (Spalding Club, Edinburgh, 1848
Reprinted 1981
Original manuscript from1684).
10. Burke's Landed Gentry, 1960's editions, under
Kilravock.
11. Burke's Landed GEntry, the Kingdom in Scotland, (18th
edition, 2001).
12. See Notes, see notes of Margaret Grant. These are
available in the s.g.m. archives.
13. Hugh Rose, Lachlan Shaw, C. Innes, Rose Family of
Kilravock, (Spalding Club, Edinburgh, 1848
Reprinted 1981
Original manuscript from1684), p. 56.
14. Hugh Rose, Lachlan Shaw, C. Innes, Rose Family of
Kilravock, (Spalding Club, Edinburgh, 1848
Reprinted 1981
Original manuscript from1684), pp. 55-56.
15. Hugh Rose, Lachlan Shaw, C. Innes, Rose Family of
Kilravock, (Spalding Club, Edinburgh, 1848
Reprinted 1981
Original manuscript from 1684), p. 55.
16. new falconer .fdb file.
17. Sir James Balfour Paul, The Scots Peerage: founded on
Wood's Edition of Sir Robert Douglas's Peerage of
Scotland. Edinburgh: David Douglas, 1908-1919. 9
vols, 5:245.
18. (cited under notes of Alexander Falconer, m. Elizabeth
Douglas).
19. Scots Peerage, I:184.
20. Scots Peerage, VII, 463.
21. Hugh Rose, Lachlan Shaw, C. Innes, Rose Family of
Kilravock, (Spalding Club, Edinburgh, 1848
Reprinted 1981
Original manuscript from1684), p 55.
22. Burke's Landed Gentry, 1938, p 1219, under Rose-Innes
of Bunachton, late of Netherdale.
23. Scots Peerage, under Angus, I: 183-185.
24. Scots Peerage, under Angus.
25. New IGI (Oct 2002).
26. Scots Peerage, VII, 461-464.
27. Scots Peerage, I: 444.
28. (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~mould/hugh.ro
se.1516.htm).
29. Scots Peerage, under Angus I:183-4.
30. Scots Peerage.
31. Scots Peerage, VII, 457.
32. Scots Peerage, VII, 459-461.
33. Scots Peerage, V, 54.
34. Cokayne and Gibbs, V: 545 (Forbes).
35. Scots Peerage, I: 443-444.
36. Hugh Rose, Lachlan Shaw, C. Innes, Rose Family of
Kilravock, (Spalding Club, Edinburgh, 1848
Reprinted 1981
Original manuscript from1684), pp. 47-54.
37. Burke's Landed Gentry, 1938, Mackintosh of that ilk, p
1483.
38. Scots Peerage, I: 183.
39. Cokayne and Gibbs, I: 157.
40. Cokayne and Gibbs, 1:156.
41. Scots Peerage, VII, 456-7.
42. Scots Peerage, VII, 456.
43. Scots Peerage, VII, 457-9.
44. Scots Peerage, IV, 19, but see IX, 89, and VII, 458.
45. Scots Peerage, IV, 53-55.
46. Scots Peerage, IV:54.
47. Burke's Landed GEntry, the Kingdom in Scotland, (18th
edition, 2001), p 1286, Stuart.
48. Scots Peerage, I: 443.
49. Scots Peerage, I: 336.
50. Burke's Landed Gentry, 1938, McDonald of Clanranald, p
1453.
51. Burke's Landed Gentry, 1938, Mackintosh of Mackintosh,
p 1483.
52. Scots Peerage, Vol 5, Articles on Innermeath and Lord of the
Isles.
53. Cokayne and Gibbs, 1:176-8.
54. Scots Peerage, IV: 51-52.
55. Scots Peerage, IV, 52 and 524-525.
56. Scots Peerage, I:441-442.
57. Cokayne and Gibbs, Atholl art, Vol I, p. 304 seq.
58. Scots Peerage, I: 304.
59. Cokayne and Gibbs, Ross article, Vol XI, p. 157.
60. Burke's Landed GEntry, the Kingdom in Scotland, (18th
edition, 2001), p 1286, under Stuart.
61. Cokayne and Gibbs, Lennox article, Vol VII, p. 597.
62. (Oxford University Press), Vol I, p. 441-2.
63. Burke's Peerage, Baronetage and Knightage, 1938, page
145.
64. Scots Peerage, I: 335-337.
65. The Heraldry of The Campbells Inverary, 1977. , G.
Harvey Johnston, (10).
66. Scots Peerage, V:350.
67. Scots Peerage, Lord of the Isles (V, 39).
68. Cokayne and Gibbs, 1:155.
69. Scots Peerage, I: 174-175.
70. Scots Peerage, 8:426.
71. Scots Peerage, IV: 50-51.
72. Scots Peerage, 1:440-441.
73. Cokayne and Gibbs, I: 304.
74. Scots Peerage, I: 18-19.
75. The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles,
Prince of Wales Edinburgh, 1977., Gerald Paget, Q
120579.
76. (Oxford University Press), His own article.
77. Cokayne and Gibbs, Caithness article, pp. 477-8.
78. Scots Peerage, VI: 571; II: 330-6.
79. Cokayne and Gibbs, II 478.
80. Cokayne and Gibbs, Caithness article, p. 478.
81. Scots Peerage, I: 332-335.
82. Scots Peerage, V, 39.
83. Cokayne and Gibbs, 1:154.
84. Scots Peerage, 1:18, 173.
85. Gary Boyd Roberts, The Royal Descents of 600
Immigrants, (Genealogical Publishing Co. , Baltimore,
2004), p126.
86. Scots Peerage, IV: 47-50.
87. Scots Peerage, I: 170-174.
88. Scots Peerage, V: 2-3.
89. Scots Peerage, V: 2.
90. Scots Peerage, II: 334; IX: 18.
91. Scots Peerage, VII: 244.
92. Scots Peerage, V: 3-4.
93. Scots Peerage, V, 37-40.
94. Scots Peerage, III: 148-155.
95. Scots Peerage, I: 171.
96. W. D. Sellar, Hebridean Sea-Kings, (in Alba: Celtic
Scotland in the Medieval Era
Tuckwell Press, 2000
ISBN 1 86232 151 5).
97. Scots Peerage, V: 2; I: 8.
98. Scots Peerage, V: 40-42.
99. Scots Peerage, V: 42; VII: 239-41.
100. Cokayne and Gibbs.
101. Scots Peerage, IX: 10; V: 3.
102. Scots Peerage, V, 36-37.
103. Scots Peerage, I: 170-171.
104. Scots Peerage, I: 169-170.
105. Scots Peerage, VII: 237-9.
106. Scots Peerage, VII: 239.
107. Clan Donald website.
108. See Notes, for his son Donald.
109. Scots Peerage, V: 28-31.
110. The Highland Clans, London, 1977. , Moncreiffe of
That Ilk, David Hicks.
111. See Notes.
Doug McDonald
would you post your lineage back to Somerlad here?
If by "lineage" you mean the all-male line, I don't have it:
my great grandfather is a brick wall. If you mean the mixed line,
it is attached. I am known to be a male-line descendant of Somerled,
or a close relative by DNA, by not by paper trail.
First Generation
1. James Douglas McDonald, son of Benjamin Patrick
McDonald and Dorothy Nell Collins(1).
Second Generation (Parents)
2. Benjamin Patrick McDonald,(2) son of Benjamin Hill
McDonald and Ella May Toland.
3. Dorothy Nell Collins (2).
Third Generation (Grandparents)
4. Benjamin Hill McDonald,(2) son of Reddin Burkhalter
McDonald and Caroline Matilda Rose, was born on
Oct 20, 1861 in Elba, Coffee Co., AL and died on
Jan 23, 1940 in Ft.Worth, Tarrant Co. TX.
5. Ella May Toland was born on Oct 5, 1878 in Marlin,
Falls Co., TX and died on Jul 5, 1965 in Ft.Worth,
Tarrant Co. TX.
Fourth Generation (Great Grandparents)
8. Reddin Burkhalter McDonald (3) was born in Jan 1818
in GA and died on Mar 21, 1901 in Cross Plains,
Callahan Co., TX.
9. Caroline Matilda Rose,(4) daughter of Hugh F. Rose
M.D. and Elizabeth Robertson, was born on Jul 24,
1833 in Jones Co. GA (5) and died on Dec 12, 1881
in Ranger, Eastland Co., TX (5).
Fifth Generation (Great Great Grandparents)
18. Hugh F. Rose M.D.,(4) son of Col. Hugh Rose and
Caroline Matilda Jordan, was born in 1785 and died
in 1842.
19. Elizabeth Robertson died in 1841 in Lumpkin Ga.
Sixth Generation (3rd Great Grandparents)
36. Col. Hugh Rose,(4) son of Rev. Robert Rose and Anne
Fitzhugh, was born on Sep 18, 1743 in Stafford
County, Virginia and died on Oct 18, 1794 in
Amherst County, Virginia.
37. Caroline Matilda Jordan (4) died about 1809.
Seventh Generation (4th Great Grandparents)
72. Rev. Robert Rose,(4) son of John Rose of Wester
Alves, Scotland and Margaret Grant, was born on
Feb 12, 1704 in Wester Alves, Scotland and died on
Jun 30, 1751.
73. Anne Fitzhugh (6) was born in 1720 and died in
1789. (Note: a descendant of Henry I King of England
through the immigrant William Ironmonger.)
Eighth Generation (5th Great Grandparents)
144. John Rose of Wester Alves, Scotland,(4, 7,
of Patrick Rose of Lochihills and Margaret
Tulloch, was born about 1666 and died on Apr 13,
1724.
145. Margaret Grant,(8) daughter of Patrick Grant of
Whytree, died in 1774.
Ninth Generation (6th Great Grandparents)
288. Patrick Rose of Lochihills,(4, 8, 9, 10) son of
Hugh Rose of Logie, Darnaway and Katherine Ord,
was born about 1636 and died on Mar 31, 1727.
289. Margaret Tulloch (11).
290. Patrick Grant of Whytree,(12) son of John Grant 5th
of Ballindalloch and Elizabeth Innes, died before
Nov 11, 1698.
Tenth Generation (7th Great Grandparents)
576. Hugh Rose of Logie, Darnaway,(13) son of John Rose
of Bellivat and Margaret Falconer, was born in
1569-1589. This is the standard and accepted mother,
and given in RD600. However, I am concerned that
the mother of Hugh Rose may in fact have been
Christian Gordon (not 37141, of course).
577. Katherine Ord (9) was born in Finachty.
580. John Grant 5th of Ballindalloch, son of Patrick
Grant 4th of Ballindalloch and Helen Ogilvie, was
born about 1596 and died about 1679.
581. Elizabeth Innes .
Eleventh Generation (8th Great Grandparents)
1152. John Rose of Bellivat,(14) son of John Rose of
Bellivat and Janet Urquhart, was born about 1547.
1153. Margaret Falconer,(8, 10) daughter of Alexander
Falconer of Halkerton and Elizabeth Douglas, was
born about 1547 and died before 1606.
1160. Patrick Grant 4th of Ballindalloch, son of Patrick
Grant 3rd of Ballindalloch and Grizel Grant, died
before 1649.
1161. Helen Ogilvie died before 1621.
Twelfth Generation (9th Great Grandparents)
2304. John Rose of Bellivat,(15) son of John Rose of
Bellivat and Marjory Dunbar, was born about 1526.
2305. Janet Urquhart .
2306. Alexander Falconer of Halkerton (16, 17, 18) was
born about 1523 and died on Nov 10, 1587 in
Lethen, Narnshire.
2307. Elizabeth Douglas,(16, 19) daughter of Sir
Archibald Douglas of Glenbervie and Agnes Keith.
2320. Patrick Grant 3rd of Ballindalloch, son of John
Grant 2nd of Ballindalloch and Barbara Gordon,
died on Sep 8, 1586.
2321. Grizel Grant,(20) daughter of John "The Gentle"
Grant 4th of Freuchie and Lady Margaret Stewart.
Thirteenth Generation (10th Great Grandparents)
4608. John Rose of Bellivat,(15) son of Hugh Rose 8th
Baron Kilravock and Margaret Gordon, was born
before 1505 and died before Feb 1573-1574.
4609. Marjory Dunbar (10, 21, 22) died after 1573.
4614. Sir Archibald Douglas of Glenbervie,(23) son of
Sir William Douglas of Glenbervie and Elizabeth
Auchinleck, was born about 1502 in Glenbervie,
Scot. and died on Sep 29, 1570.
4615. Agnes Keith (24).
4640. John Grant 2nd of Ballindalloch, son of Patrick
Grant 1st of Ballindalloch, died on Sep 11, 1559.
4641. Barbara Gordon was born about 1502 in Gight,
Aberdeen, Scotland (25).
4642. John "The Gentle" Grant 4th of Freuchie,(26) son
of James Grant 3rd of Freuchie and Elizabeth
Forbes, was born in 1507 and died on Jun 2, 1585
in Ballachastell.
4643. Lady Margaret Stewart,(27) daughter of John
Stewart 3rd Earl of Atholl and Grizel Rattray,
died in 1555.
Fourteenth Generation (11th Great Grandparents)
9216. Hugh Rose 8th Baron Kilravock,(9, 28) son of Hugh
Rose 7th Baron Kilravock and Moira Macintosh, was
born in Scotland and died on Mar 17, 1516-1517.
9217. Margaret Gordon (28) died in 1506.
9228. Sir William Douglas of Glenbervie,(29) son of
Archibald Douglas 5th Earl of Angus and Elizabeth
Boyd, was born about 1470 in Glenbervie, KINC,
Scot. and died on Sep 9, 1513 in Flodden,
Northumbria.
9229. Elizabeth Auchinleck (30) was born about 1470 in
Glenbervie, KINC, Scot.
9280. Patrick Grant 1st of Ballindalloch,(31) son of
John Grant ygr of Freuchie and Muriel Mackintosh,
was born in 1468 and died after Jun 8, 1555.
9284. James Grant 3rd of Freuchie,(32) son of John Grant
2nd of Freuchie and Margaret Ogilvy of Deskford,
was born about 1485 in Freuchie, died on Aug 29,
1553 in Freuchie, and was buried in Parish Church,
Duthil.
9285. Elizabeth Forbes,(33, 34) daughter of John Forbes
6th Lord Forbes and Catherine Stewart.
9286. John Stewart 3rd Earl of Atholl,(35) son of John
Stewart 2nd Earl of Atholl and Janet Campbell, was
born in 1507 and died in 1542.
9287. Grizel Rattray (30) died before Mar 1542.
Fifteenth Generation (12th Great Grandparents)
18432. Hugh Rose 7th Baron Kilravock (36) died in 1494.
18433. Moira Macintosh,(9, 37) daughter of Malcolm
Mackintosh 10th of Mackintosh and Moira Macdonald.
18456. Archibald Douglas 5th Earl of Angus,(38, 39) son
of George Douglas 4th Earl of Angus and Isabella
Sibbald, was born about 1449 in Kilmauers, AYR,
Scot. and died on Nov 30, 1513 in Whithorn
Priory,,Scot.
18457. Elizabeth Boyd (30, 40) was born about 1458 in
Kilmarnock, RENF, Scot. and died before Feb 21,
1496-1497.
18560. John Grant ygr of Freuchie (41) died before Sep
16, 1483 in Kindrochat, Mar, and was buried in
Cathedral church of Moray.
18561. Muriel Mackintosh,(42) daughter of Malcolm
Mackintosh 10th of Mackintosh and Moira Macdonald,
was born in 1426.
18568. John Grant 2nd of Freuchie,(43) son of John Grant
ygr of Freuchie and Muriel Mackintosh, was born in
1468 and died on May 1, 1528 in Inverness.
18569. Margaret Ogilvy of Deskford (44).
18570. John Forbes 6th Lord Forbes,(45) son of William
Forbes 3rd Lord Forbes and Lady Christian Gordon,
was born in 1472 and died in 1547.
18571. Catherine Stewart,(34, 46, 47) daughter of John
Stewart 1st Earl of Atholl and Margaret Douglas.
18572. John Stewart 2nd Earl of Atholl,(48) son of John
Stewart 1st Earl of Atholl and Eleanor Sinclair,
died in 1521.
18573. Janet Campbell,(49) daughter of Archibald
Campbell 2nd Earl of Argyll and Elizabeth Stewart,
died in Feb 1546.
Sixteenth Generation (13th Great Grandparents)
36866. Malcolm Mackintosh 10th of Mackintosh (11, 37)
died in 1464.
36867. Moira Macdonald,(50, 51, 52) daughter of Allan
Macdonald 2nd of Chief of Clanranald, was born in
1398 in Moydart, Scotland.
36912. George Douglas 4th Earl of Angus,(53) son of Sir
William Douglas 2nd Earl of Angus and Margaret
(Elizabeth) Hay, was born about 1415 in Mar, ABER,
Scot. and died on Mar 12, 1462-1463.
36913. Isabella Sibbald (30) was born about 1422 in
Balgonie, FIFE, Scot. and died before Feb 1503.
37122. Malcolm Mackintosh 10th of Mackintosh (11, 37)
died in 1464.
37123. Moira Macdonald,(50, 51, 52) daughter of Allan
Macdonald 2nd of Chief of Clanranald, was born in
1398 in Moydart, Scotland.
37136. John Grant ygr of Freuchie (41) died before Sep
16, 1483 in Kindrochat, Mar, and was buried in
Cathedral church of Moray.
37137. Muriel Mackintosh,(42) daughter of Malcolm
Mackintosh 10th of Mackintosh and Moira Macdonald,
was born in 1426.
37140. William Forbes 3rd Lord Forbes,(54) son of James
Forbes 2nd Lord Forbes and Egidia (Gille) Keith,
died before Jul 5, 1483.
37141. Lady Christian Gordon (55).
37142. John Stewart 1st Earl of Atholl,(56, 57, 58, 59,
60, 61, 62) son of Sir James Stewart "the Black
Knight of Lorn" and Joan Beaufort, was born about
1442 in Balveny Castle, Mortlach, Banffshire,
Scotland, died on Sep 15, 1512 in Laighwood,
Perthshire, Scotland, and was buried in Cathedral,
Laighwood, Perthshire, Scotland.
37143. Margaret Douglas (30) died before 1475.
37144. John Stewart 1st Earl of Atholl,(56, 57, 58, 59,
60, 61, 62) son of Sir James Stewart "the Black
Knight of Lorn" and Joan Beaufort, was born about
1442 in Balveny Castle, Mortlach, Banffshire,
Scotland, died on Sep 15, 1512 in Laighwood,
Perthshire, Scotland, and was buried in Cathedral,
Laighwood, Perthshire, Scotland.
37145. Eleanor Sinclair,(61) daughter of William
Sinclair 3rd Earl of Orkney, Earl of Caithness and
Marjory Sutherland, died on Mar 21, 1518, and was
buried in Dunkeld Cathedral.
37146. Archibald Campbell 2nd Earl of Argyll,(63, 64,
65) son of Colin Campbell 1st Earl of Argyll and
Isabel Stewart, was born before 1468 and died on
Sep 9, 1513 in Flodden (in battle).
37147. Elizabeth Stewart (66).
Seventeenth Generation (14th Great Grandparents)
73734. Allan Macdonald 2nd of Chief of Clanranald,(67)
son of Ranald Macdonald 1st Chief of Clanranald,
died after 1428.
73824. Sir William Douglas 2nd Earl of Angus,(68, 69)
son of George Douglas 1st Earl of Angus and Mary
Stewart, was born about 1399 in Mar, ABER, Scot.
and died in Oct 1437.
73825. Margaret (Elizabeth) Hay (70) was born about
1404 in Locherworth, Edinburgh, MLOT, Scot. and
died after 1484.
74280. James Forbes 2nd Lord Forbes,(71) son of
Alexander De Forbes 1st Lord Forbes and Elizabeth
Douglas, was born in 1435 and died in 1460.
74281. Egidia (Gille) Keith (30) was born in 1445.
74284. Sir James Stewart "the Black Knight of Lorn",(72)
son of Sir John Stewart of Innermeath and Isabel
de Ergadia.
74285. Joan Beaufort (73, 74) was born in 1398 in
Westminster and died on Jul 15, 1445 in Dunbar
Castle.
74290. William Sinclair 3rd Earl of Orkney, Earl of
Caithness (59, 61, 75, 76, 77, 78) was born about
1404 and died in 1480.
74291. Marjory Sutherland,(57, 79, 80) daughter of
Alexander Sutherland of Dunbeath and Mariota
Macdonald.
74292. Colin Campbell 1st Earl of Argyll (81) died on
May 10, 1493.
74293. Isabel Stewart,(30) daughter of John Stewart 2nd
Lord Lorn, died on Oct 26, 1510.
Eighteenth Generation (15th Great Grandparents)
147468. Ranald Macdonald 1st Chief of Clanranald,(82)
son of John Macdonald of Islay, 1st Lord of the
Isles and Amy MacRuairi of Garmoran, died about
1386 in Castle Tioram, Scotland.
147648. George Douglas 1st Earl of Angus,(83, 84) son of
William Douglas 1st Earl of Douglas and Margaret
Stewart Countess of Angus, was born about 1380 in
Mar, ABER, Scot. and died after Sep 14, 1402 in
Homildon, LANC, Eng.
147649. Mary Stewart (83, 84, 85) was born about 1380
in Dumfermline, FIFE, Scot., died after 1458 in
Strathblane, STIR, Scot., and was buried in
Strathblane, STIR, Scot.
148560. Alexander De Forbes 1st Lord Forbes (86) was
born in 1404 and died in 1448.
148561. Elizabeth Douglas,(87) daughter of George
Douglas 1st Earl of Angus and Mary Stewart, died
after 1439.
148568. Sir John Stewart of Innermeath (88) died on Apr
26, 1421.
148569. Isabel de Ergadia,(89) daughter of John Mac Alan
and Jonet Isaac, was born about 1352 and died on
Dec 21, 1439.
148582. Alexander Sutherland of Dunbeath (90) died about
1455.
148583. Mariota Macdonald,(91) daughter of Donald
Macdonald Lord of the Isles and Earl of Ross and
Margaret (Mary or Mariota) Leslie.
148586. John Stewart 2nd Lord Lorn,(92) son of Robert
Stewart 1st Lord Lorn and Joanna Stewart, died on
Dec 20, 1463 in Dunstaffnage,Argyll,Scotland.
Nineteenth Generation (16th Great Grandparents)
294936. John Macdonald of Islay, 1st Lord of the
Isles,(93) son of Angus Og Macdonald and Agnes O'
Cathan, died in 1386 in Ardtornish Castle.
294937. Amy MacRuairi of Garmoran (30).
295296. William Douglas 1st Earl of Douglas (94) was
born about 1327 and died in May 1384.
295297. Margaret Stewart Countess of Angus,(95) daughter
of Thomas Stewart 2nd Earl of Angus and Margaret
Sinclair, died in 1417.
297122. George Douglas 1st Earl of Angus,(83, 84) son of
William Douglas 1st Earl of Douglas and Margaret
Stewart Countess of Angus, was born about 1380 in
Mar, ABER, Scot. and died after Sep 14, 1402 in
Homildon, LANC, Eng.
297123. Mary Stewart (83, 84, 85) was born about 1380
in Dumfermline, FIFE, Scot., died after 1458 in
Strathblane, STIR, Scot., and was buried in
Strathblane, STIR, Scot.
297138. John Mac Alan,(96) son of Alan of Argyll, died
after 1368.
297139. Jonet Isaac (97) was born about 1344.
297166. Donald Macdonald Lord of the Isles and Earl of
Ross,(98) son of John Macdonald of Islay, 1st Lord
of the Isles and Margaret Stewart, was born in
1364 and died in 1423 in Morven.
297167. Margaret (Mary or Mariota) Leslie,(99, 100)
daughter of Walter Leslie Earl of Ross and
Euphemia Ross Countess of Ross.
297172. Robert Stewart 1st Lord Lorn,(92) son of Sir
John Stewart of Innermeath and Isabel de Ergadia,
died in 1449.
297173. Joanna Stewart (101) was born about 1368.
Twentieth Generation (17th Great Grandparents)
589872. Angus Og Macdonald,(102) son of Angus Mor
Macdonald Lord of the Isles and Campbell, died in
1329.
589873. Agnes O' Cathan (30).
590594. Thomas Stewart 2nd Earl of Angus,(103) son of
John Stewart 1st Earl of Angus and Margaret
Abernethy Lady of Abernethy, died in 1361 in
Dumbarton Castle.
590595. Margaret Sinclair (30).
594276. Alan of Argyll,(96) son of John of the Isles.
594332. John Macdonald of Islay, 1st Lord of the
Isles,(93) son of Angus Og Macdonald and Agnes O'
Cathan, died in 1386 in Ardtornish Castle.
594333. Margaret Stewart (30).
594334. Walter Leslie Earl of Ross,(30) son of Andrew
Leslie 6th Lord Leslie and Mary Abernethy, died on
Feb 27, 1381.
594335. Euphemia Ross Countess of Ross,(100) daughter of
William Ross 5th Earl of Ross and Mary Macdonald.
594344. Sir John Stewart of Innermeath (88) died on Apr
26, 1421.
594345. Isabel de Ergadia,(89) daughter of John Mac Alan
and Jonet Isaac, was born about 1352 and died on
Dec 21, 1439.
Twenty-first Generation (18th Great Grandparents)
1179744. Angus Mor Macdonald Lord of the Isles,(30) son
of Donald MacRanald of the Isles, died about 1296.
1179745. Campbell (30).
1181188. John Stewart 1st Earl of Angus (104) died on
Dec 9, 1331.
1181189. Margaret Abernethy Lady of Abernethy,(30)
daughter of Alexander Abernethy.
1188552. John of the Isles,(96) son of Alexander Lord of
Argyll, died in 1316.
1188668. Andrew Leslie 6th Lord Leslie (30) died before
Nov 28, 1324.
1188669. Mary Abernethy,(30) daughter of Alexander
Abernethy, was born about 1295 in Abernethy,
Fifeshire, Scotland and died before Nov 19, 1355
in Lindores Abbey, Fife, Scotland.
1188670. William Ross 5th Earl of Ross (105) died on Feb
9, 1371-1372.
1188671. Mary Macdonald,(106) daughter of Angus Og
Macdonald and Agnes O' Cathan.
Twenty-second Generation (19th Great Grandparents)
2359488. Donald MacRanald of the Isles,(107) son of
Reginald Lord of the Isles, died in 1269.
2362378. Alexander Abernethy,(30) son of Hugh Abernethy
and Mary of Agyll, died before 1317.
2377104. Alexander Lord of Argyll,(96) son of Ewen
(John) of the Isles, died in 1310.
2377338. Alexander Abernethy,(30) son of Hugh Abernethy
and Mary of Agyll, died before 1317.
2377342. Angus Og Macdonald,(102) son of Angus Mor
Macdonald Lord of the Isles and Campbell, died in
1329.
2377343. Agnes O' Cathan (30).
Twenty-third Generation (20th Great Grandparents)
4718976. Reginald Lord of the Isles,(107, 108) son of
Somerled MacGillebride and Ragnhild Olafsdottir,
was born in 1141 and died in 1207.
4724756. Hugh Abernethy (30) died after 1291.
4724757. Mary of Agyll,(30, 96) daughter of Ewen (John)
of the Isles, died in 1304.
4754208. Ewen (John) of the Isles,(96) son of Duncan of
the Isles.
Twenty-fourth Generation (21st Great Grandparents)
9437952. Somerled MacGillebride (109) was born in 1100
and died in 1164 in Renfrew, Strathclyde,
Scotland.
9437953. Ragnhild Olafsdottir (110, 111) was born
before 1125 in Isle of Man.
9449514. Ewen (John) of the Isles,(96) son of Duncan of
the Isles.
9508416. Duncan of the Isles,(96) son of Dugald of the
Isles.
Twenty-fifth Generation (22nd Great Grandparents)
19016832. Dugald of the Isles,(30, 96) son of Somerled
MacGillebride and Ragnhild Olafsdottir.
Twenty-sixth Generation (23rd Great Grandparents)
38033664. Somerled MacGillebride (109) was born in 1100
and died in 1164 in Renfrew, Strathclyde,
Scotland.
38033665. Ragnhild Olafsdottir (110, 111) was born
before 1125 in Isle of Man.
------------------------------------------------------------
Sources
1. birth certificate, in hand.
2. family Bible.
3. Christine Rose, Ancestors and Descendents of the
Brothers Rev. Robert Rose and Rev. Charles Rose, (San
Jose, California 1985), Information in this book came
from Ann Barker, sister of B. P. McDonald. Actual data,
birth certificates, marriage certificates, etc. are
in my files.
4. Christine Rose, Ancestors and Descendents of the
Brothers Rev. Robert Rose and Rev. Charles Rose, (San
Jose, California 1985).
5. (tombstone).
6. Fitzhugh, The Story of a Family Through Six Centuries by
Terrick Fitzhugh and
The History of our Fitzhugh Family by Henry Antonie
Fitzhugh (published together).
7. Ralph Emmett Fall, ed., The Diary of Robert Rose,
(McClure Press, 1977).
8. The matriculation of Murray Fontaine Rose in the
College of Arms of Scotland,
Ma 10, 1985).
9. Hugh Rose, Lachlan Shaw, C. Innes, Rose Family of
Kilravock, (Spalding Club, Edinburgh, 1848
Reprinted 1981
Original manuscript from1684).
10. Burke's Landed Gentry, 1960's editions, under
Kilravock.
11. Burke's Landed GEntry, the Kingdom in Scotland, (18th
edition, 2001).
12. See Notes, see notes of Margaret Grant. These are
available in the s.g.m. archives.
13. Hugh Rose, Lachlan Shaw, C. Innes, Rose Family of
Kilravock, (Spalding Club, Edinburgh, 1848
Reprinted 1981
Original manuscript from1684), p. 56.
14. Hugh Rose, Lachlan Shaw, C. Innes, Rose Family of
Kilravock, (Spalding Club, Edinburgh, 1848
Reprinted 1981
Original manuscript from1684), pp. 55-56.
15. Hugh Rose, Lachlan Shaw, C. Innes, Rose Family of
Kilravock, (Spalding Club, Edinburgh, 1848
Reprinted 1981
Original manuscript from 1684), p. 55.
16. new falconer .fdb file.
17. Sir James Balfour Paul, The Scots Peerage: founded on
Wood's Edition of Sir Robert Douglas's Peerage of
Scotland. Edinburgh: David Douglas, 1908-1919. 9
vols, 5:245.
18. (cited under notes of Alexander Falconer, m. Elizabeth
Douglas).
19. Scots Peerage, I:184.
20. Scots Peerage, VII, 463.
21. Hugh Rose, Lachlan Shaw, C. Innes, Rose Family of
Kilravock, (Spalding Club, Edinburgh, 1848
Reprinted 1981
Original manuscript from1684), p 55.
22. Burke's Landed Gentry, 1938, p 1219, under Rose-Innes
of Bunachton, late of Netherdale.
23. Scots Peerage, under Angus, I: 183-185.
24. Scots Peerage, under Angus.
25. New IGI (Oct 2002).
26. Scots Peerage, VII, 461-464.
27. Scots Peerage, I: 444.
28. (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~mould/hugh.ro
se.1516.htm).
29. Scots Peerage, under Angus I:183-4.
30. Scots Peerage.
31. Scots Peerage, VII, 457.
32. Scots Peerage, VII, 459-461.
33. Scots Peerage, V, 54.
34. Cokayne and Gibbs, V: 545 (Forbes).
35. Scots Peerage, I: 443-444.
36. Hugh Rose, Lachlan Shaw, C. Innes, Rose Family of
Kilravock, (Spalding Club, Edinburgh, 1848
Reprinted 1981
Original manuscript from1684), pp. 47-54.
37. Burke's Landed Gentry, 1938, Mackintosh of that ilk, p
1483.
38. Scots Peerage, I: 183.
39. Cokayne and Gibbs, I: 157.
40. Cokayne and Gibbs, 1:156.
41. Scots Peerage, VII, 456-7.
42. Scots Peerage, VII, 456.
43. Scots Peerage, VII, 457-9.
44. Scots Peerage, IV, 19, but see IX, 89, and VII, 458.
45. Scots Peerage, IV, 53-55.
46. Scots Peerage, IV:54.
47. Burke's Landed GEntry, the Kingdom in Scotland, (18th
edition, 2001), p 1286, Stuart.
48. Scots Peerage, I: 443.
49. Scots Peerage, I: 336.
50. Burke's Landed Gentry, 1938, McDonald of Clanranald, p
1453.
51. Burke's Landed Gentry, 1938, Mackintosh of Mackintosh,
p 1483.
52. Scots Peerage, Vol 5, Articles on Innermeath and Lord of the
Isles.
53. Cokayne and Gibbs, 1:176-8.
54. Scots Peerage, IV: 51-52.
55. Scots Peerage, IV, 52 and 524-525.
56. Scots Peerage, I:441-442.
57. Cokayne and Gibbs, Atholl art, Vol I, p. 304 seq.
58. Scots Peerage, I: 304.
59. Cokayne and Gibbs, Ross article, Vol XI, p. 157.
60. Burke's Landed GEntry, the Kingdom in Scotland, (18th
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61. Cokayne and Gibbs, Lennox article, Vol VII, p. 597.
62. (Oxford University Press), Vol I, p. 441-2.
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68. Cokayne and Gibbs, 1:155.
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70. Scots Peerage, 8:426.
71. Scots Peerage, IV: 50-51.
72. Scots Peerage, 1:440-441.
73. Cokayne and Gibbs, I: 304.
74. Scots Peerage, I: 18-19.
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Prince of Wales Edinburgh, 1977., Gerald Paget, Q
120579.
76. (Oxford University Press), His own article.
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79. Cokayne and Gibbs, II 478.
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82. Scots Peerage, V, 39.
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85. Gary Boyd Roberts, The Royal Descents of 600
Immigrants, (Genealogical Publishing Co. , Baltimore,
2004), p126.
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87. Scots Peerage, I: 170-174.
88. Scots Peerage, V: 2-3.
89. Scots Peerage, V: 2.
90. Scots Peerage, II: 334; IX: 18.
91. Scots Peerage, VII: 244.
92. Scots Peerage, V: 3-4.
93. Scots Peerage, V, 37-40.
94. Scots Peerage, III: 148-155.
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Tuckwell Press, 2000
ISBN 1 86232 151 5).
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103. Scots Peerage, I: 170-171.
104. Scots Peerage, I: 169-170.
105. Scots Peerage, VII: 237-9.
106. Scots Peerage, VII: 239.
107. Clan Donald website.
108. See Notes, for his son Donald.
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That Ilk, David Hicks.
111. See Notes.
Doug McDonald
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norenxaq
Re: Charlemagne Society
Doug McDonald wrote:
understood
this is what I meant. sorry for any confusion
received. how likely is it that those with the surname Mc (or Mac)Donald
are interralated in some way?
thank-you
thank-you
norenxaq wrote:
would you post your lineage back to Somerlad here?
If by "lineage" you mean the all-male line, I don't have it:
my great grandfather is a brick wall.
understood
If you mean the mixed line,
this is what I meant. sorry for any confusion
it is attached. I am known to be a male-line descendant of Somerled,
or a close relative by DNA, by not by paper trail.
received. how likely is it that those with the surname Mc (or Mac)Donald
are interralated in some way?
thank-you
thank-you
-
Doug McDonald
Re: Charlemagne Society
norenxaq wrote:
About 1/6 to 1/4 of McDonalds are related in the male line to
Somerled. The rest fit into many many much small groups.
Given that most McDonalds come from the highlands of Scotland,
they are likely almost all related in some way or other in the last 1500
years.
Doug McDonald
received. how likely is it that those with the surname Mc (or Mac)Donald
are interralated in some way?
About 1/6 to 1/4 of McDonalds are related in the male line to
Somerled. The rest fit into many many much small groups.
Given that most McDonalds come from the highlands of Scotland,
they are likely almost all related in some way or other in the last 1500
years.
Doug McDonald