Sir Roger Townshend

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Rhonda Jordan

Sir Roger Townshend

Legg inn av Rhonda Jordan » 22 feb 2005 22:10:03

I would like to correspond with some of the Townshend researchers on the list, particularly about Sir Roger in the late 1400s. I have a few short questions in addition to the following:

Has anyone viewed Sir Roger's collected papers? Have they been published? If so, I've yet to find a reference, but I'm still hoping...

Thanks,

Rhonda

Matt

Re: Sir Roger Townshend

Legg inn av Matt » 23 feb 2005 01:01:36

Hi Rhonda. I assume you mean Sir Roger Townsend (the 'h' came later) of
West Raynham. I've a good sized collection of research on the subject.
Please copy me off list with more of your query details.

Matt Townsend


Rhonda Jordan wrote:
I would like to correspond with some of the Townshend researchers on the list, particularly about Sir Roger in the late 1400s. I have a few short questions in addition to the following:

Has anyone viewed Sir Roger's collected papers? Have they been published? If so, I've yet to find a reference, but I'm still hoping...

Thanks,

Rhonda

Robert O'Connor

Re: Sir Roger Townshend

Legg inn av Robert O'Connor » 23 feb 2005 08:10:01

""Rhonda Jordan"" <rlbj1161@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:019a01c51921$006102a0$b100a8c0@pavilion...
I would like to correspond with some of the Townshend researchers on the
list, particularly about Sir Roger in the late 1400s. I have a few short

questions in addition to the following:
Has anyone viewed Sir Roger's collected papers? Have they been published?
If so, I've yet to find a reference, but I'm still hoping...


Dear Rhonda

Sir Roger Townshend d 1493 is an ancestor of mine. I have never seen any
suggestion that his "collected papers" have ever been published. I rather
think that lived too early in time for his private papers to still exist.
That is not to say that details of his life and career are unknown. If I
can help you I will. What information are you looking for?

Best wishes
Robert O'Connor

Rhonda Jordan

Re: Sir Roger Townshend

Legg inn av Rhonda Jordan » 23 feb 2005 15:50:02

Ah, Robert O'Connor, God bless you sir...

About three years ago you answered a query of mine. It was you who led me to the Moreton book. :-D And of course I've consulted your excellent web site.

I don't know if you have any further information for me, but here's an edited copy of the email I sent last night to Matt Townsend, who also graciously responded. Please do look over it and if any of it rings new bells, please let me know. [Matt, I'm not sure that went through to the correct email address.] I am copying this to the list in case anyone else can help on any point.

All the best,
Rhonda

-------------------------
Dear Matt,

Why yes indeed! I am referring to the first Sir Roger. I am trying to find documents that might shed light on the connections between the Towns[h]ends and the Blakeneys of Norfolk.

Sir Roger Towns[h]end's sister Joan (d. 1503?) married Sir John Blakeney (d. 1471). I have the Moreton references to this John, who clearly was very close with
Sir Roger. John and at least one of his sons were trustees to Sir Roger, and the Blakeneys had a continued relationship with Roger II. John and Joan had at least two sons, The younger being Thomas and the eldest apparently being another John. I would have none of this information -- other than that *a* John Blakeney died in 1471 -- without the Towns[h]end records. These closed family gaps. I have a copy of John's will, but it is the shortest I've ever seen and simply says that everything was to go to his wife, Joan, for her to distribute as need be to their sons. It didn't even list their names.

Up to this point, and following through the 16th century, the Blakeneys continued to be a well-connected family in Norfolk. But by the mid-1600s, they seem to have disappeared from the county altogether. Blakeney genealogies all explain it away with a note (from Blomefield, I think -- just off the top of my head) that "At the time of the Elizabethan plantation, after the bulk of the Blakeney estates were inherited by a female, the male Blakeneys went soldiering to Ireland." This is partly true
but doesn't cover to satisfaction. For one thing, I have found the Blakeney men in question to have still been in Sparham at least 20 years later than has been suggested. The statement goes further to specifically say that this one fellow set up his estate in Limerick while the other set up in Galway. True enough, but that was after the Cromwellian settlement, not the Elizabethan. We have a about 60 years there that haven't been addressed. I'm trying in every way possible to trace the decline of the Blakeneys' influence in Norfolk -- to find the specific dates, individuals, and motives that transferred the entirety to Ireland by 1660.

So... back to the Towns[h]ends. As the Blakeneys apparently kept no papers of their own, I'm hoping to find whatever I can through the Towns[h]ends manuscripts. Other than the two books on the family, do you know if any mss. have been published? I think Roger I may have kept a letter-book, although I may have mistaken that for the one kept by his son. Did they both have personal journals that were saved? If Roger I did, I'm sure there would have been references to his brother-in-law, John Blakeney -- more than are indicated by the Moreton book. After all, the focus of the book wasn't the Blakeneys! I have found various Towns[h]end files listed in British repositories, but I have no idea which is what, and unfortunately, I am an ocean away. And poor. Bah.

Oh yes... I found the Shropshire Visitation of 1623 that shows another Towns[h]end-Blakeney marriage two or three generations before Joan and John.
This referred to Katherina T. and "Caroli (Charles) Blakeney de Sperham," and the Sparham Blakeneys are the same line I'm researching. I read further that this particular record was unreliable, that some fantasy genealogy was going on. (Also errors -- Roger I's father is also listed as a Roger instead of John.) But certainly not the whole thing is made up, and I doubt the Charles Blakeney connection was the stuff of dreams. ;-) If you have any info on this match, I'd love to know.

I have also checked for info in the books of Paston correspondence. I have only found two references, one of which I don't understand. But the first letter sufficed to show some animosity between the Pastons and said John Blakeney. I imagine there was more than a bit of rivalry for the affections of the Towns[h]ends as well. After all, Sir Roger advised Paston financially and legally, and lent him money more than once.

Ah, I have another question... Do you have any information on the manor of Honingham in Norfolk? Blomefield wrote that Thomas Blakeney arranged for Roger II to inherit the family manor should the male Blakeney line become extinct. Well, it didn't become extinct, but there is no more mention of Blakeneys at Honingham after Thomas. Thomas had a son, and his elder brother had more than one. But they are strictly found at Sparham after that. Do you know if Roger II still wound up with Honingham? Or if so, why/how?

I don't know if your research might suggest an answer to this one, but if you come across any info or have any theories, I'd really like your input. John Blakeney's bio suggests that his fortunes ebbed and waned as political climates shifted, but at the time of his death he was still in favor. However, I found a brief mention -- no explanatory info whatsoever -- of the arrest of "John Blakeney and his wife Isabella," contemporary to John and Joan. (The source seemed to suggest it was the same Sir John, but that is not possible as Joan outlived him.) The arrest of a man and wife together, especially from a prominent family, suggests the alleged
crime would be of a political nature. I'm really intrigued by this but I don't know where to find further info.

Anyway, let me know what you can, when you can. I'm really excited to have a chance to correspond with you. Keep me in mind, and keep in touch!

Yours,

Rhonda Jordan
Birmingham, AL

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