Descendants of Charlemagne
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Rick Eaton
Descendants of Charlemagne
Hi hope that this is useful to researchers.
Apologies if any or all of this is redundant. I have not been able to be a
steady parfticipant or lurker lately with so many hospital strays and clinic
visits.
As I recall, there was considerable discussion of Charlemange's descendants
within recent months. I came across the following web site and useful
information while researching another subject and thought I woukld pass it
along to others for their use.
There is a not-for-profit, membership organization called The International
Society of the Descendants of Charlemange, web URL:
http://charsoc.users4.50megs.com/
The Society is headed by the Most reverend Lowell A. Barker of Florida
(details at web site).
The following U.S. "gateway descendan's are listed at the site:
Robert Abell - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Margaret Wyatt Allyn - Connecticut
* John Alston - South Carolina
* Samuel Appleton - Massachusetts
* Col. Walter Aston - Virginia
* Col. Kenneth Baillie - Georgia
* Mrs. Elizabeth Alsop Baldwin - Connecticut
* Lancelot Bathurst - Virginia
* Christopher Batt - Massachusetts
* Henry Batte - Virginia
* Thomas Batte - Virginia
* Richard Bernard - Virginia
* Col. William Bernard - Virginia
* William Bladen - Maryland
* Joseph Bolles - Maine
* Thomas Boteler - Maryland
* Griffith Bowen - Massachusetts
* Thomas Bradbury - Massachusetts
* Christopher Branch - Virginia
* Thomas Bressie - Connecticut
* Edward Bromfield - Massachusetts
* Gov. Thomas Brooke - Maryland
* Obadiah Bruen - Connecticut
* Mrs. Thomasine Ward Thompson Buffum - Massachusetts
* Rev. Peter Bulkeley - Massachusetts
* Stephen Bull - South Carolina
* Isabel Burnett - New Jersey
* Mrs. Mary Lawrence Burnham - Massachusetts
* Thomas Bye - Pennsylvania
* John Cadwalader - Pennsylvania
* Hon. Anne Arundell Calvert Baroness Baltimore - Maryland
* Cecil Calvert, 2nd Baron Baltimore - Maryland
* Lady Charlotte Lee Calvert, Baroness Baltimore - Maryland
* Jane Lowe Sewall Calvert Baroness Baltimore - Maryland
* Edward Carleton - Massachusetts
* George Carrington - Virginia
* Mrs. Sarah Ludlow Carter - Virginia
* Rev. Charles Chauncey - Massachusetts
* Lady Agatha Eltonhead Kellaway Wormeley Chichele - Virginia
* Mrs. Elizabeth Boteler Claiborne - Virginia
* Acting Gov. Jeremiah Clarke - Rhode Island
* Matthew Clarkson - New York
* James Claypoole - Pennsylvania
* Mrs. Martha Eltonhead Conway - Virginia
* Henry Corbin - Virginia
* Anna Cordray - Virginia
* Gov. John Cranston - Rhode Island
* George Curwen - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Arabella Smith Dallas - Pennsylvania
* Rev. John Davenport - Connecticut
* Margaret Davis - Pennsylvania
* Gov. Edward Digges - Virginia
* Gov. Thomas Dudley - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Anne Lloyd Yale Eaton - Connecticut
* Mrs. Agnes Harris Spencer Edwards - Connecticut
* Mrs. Mary Fox Ellicott - Pennsylvania
* Mrs. Olive Welby Farwell - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Margery Maude Fisher - Delaware
* Edward FitzRandolph - New Jersey
* Rev. Edward Foliot - Virginia
* Col. Gerard Fowke - Virginia
* Thomas Gerard - Maryland
* Gov. Robert Gibbes - Virginia
* Mrs. Jane Lawrence Giddings - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Mary Mainwaring Gill - Maryland
* William Goddard - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Anne Lovelace Gorsuch - Maryland
* Muriel Gurdon - Massachusetts
* Alexander Hamilton - New York
* Mrs. Elizabeth Bulkeley Whittingham Haugh - Massachusetts
* Edmond Hawes - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Mabel Harlakenden Haynes - Connecticut
* John Henry - Virginia
* Warham Horsmanden - Virginia
* Mrs. Anne Marbury Hutchinson - Rhode Island
* Mrs. Catherine Hamby Hutchinson - Massachusetts
* William Ironmonger - Virginia
* John Irvine - Georgia
* Henry Isham - Virginia
* Gov. Edward Jennings - Virginia
* Mrs. Euphan Scott Johnstone - New Jersey
* Mary Jones - Pennsylvania
* Robert Jones - Pennsylvania
* Joseph Kirkbride - Pennsylvania
* John Lawrence - New York
* Thomas Lawrence - New York
* William Lawrence - New York
* Col. Thomas Ligon - Virginia
* Robert Livingston - New York
* Gov. William Leete - Connecticut
* Gov. Thomas Lloyd - Pennsylvania
* James Logan - Pennsylvania
* Gabriel Ludlow - New York
* Dep. Gov. Roger Ludlow - Connecticut
* Simon Lynde - Massachusetts
* Alexander Magruder - Maryland
* Oliver Mainwaring - Connecticut
* Mrs. Mary Gye Maverick - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Martha Bulkeley Mellowes - Massachusetts
* William Montgomery - New Jersey
* Mrs. Barbara Bennet Murray - North Carolina
* James Murray - Massachusetts
* James Neale - Maryland
* Mrs. Jane Deighton Lugg Negus - Massachusetts
* John Nelson - Massachusetts
* Hugh Owen - Pennsylvania
* Jane Owen - Pennsylvania
* Rebecca Owen - Pennsylvania
* Robert Owen - Pennsylvania
* Rev. John Oxenbridge - Massachusetts
* Dr. Richard Palgrave - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Anne Humphrey Palmes - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Alice Freeman Thompson Parke - Connecticut
* Herbert Pelham - Massachusetts
* Robert Peyton - Virginia
* William Poole - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Amy Wyllys Pynchon - Massachusetts
* William Randolph - Virginia
* Edward Raynsford - Massachusetts
* Col. George Reade - Virginia
* Gainor Roberts - Pennsylvania
* John Roberts - Pennsylvania
* Mrs. Sidney Rees Roberts - Pennsylvania
* Rev. George Ross - Delaware
* Walter Rutherford - New York
* Richard Saltonstall - Massachusetts
* Rev. William Sargent - Massachusetts
* Anthony Savage - Virginia
* Mrs. Katherine Marbury Scott - Rhode Island
* Mrs. Mary Launce Sherman - Massachusetts
* Gov. William Shirley - Massachusetts
* Robert Sinclair - New York
* Sir Grey Skipwith, 3rd Bt. - Virginia
* Lawrence Smith - Virginia
* Constant Southworth - Massachusetts
* Thomas Southworth - Massachusetts
* Gov. Alexander Spotswood - Virginia
* William Strother - Virginia
* Peter Talbot - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Elizabeth Stratton Thorndike - Massachusetts
* John Throckmorton - Rhode Island
* Richard Tilghman - Maryland
* Mrs. Jane Haviland Torrey - Massachusetts
* Lawrence Towneley - Virginia
* Thomas Trowbridge - Connecticut
* St. George Tucker - Virginia
* John Underhill - New York
* Col. John Waller - Virginia
* Mrs. Mary Towneley Warner - Virginia
* John Washington of Surry Co. - Virginia
* John Washington of Westmoreland Co. - Virginia
* Gov. John West - Virginia
* Mrs. Frances Deighton Williams - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Margaret Tyndal Winthrop - Massachusetts
* Jemima Waldegrave - Massachusetts
* William Wentworth - New Hampshire
* Dr. Thomas Wynne - Pennsylvania
* Thomas Yale - Connecticut
Apologies if any or all of this is redundant. I have not been able to be a
steady parfticipant or lurker lately with so many hospital strays and clinic
visits.
As I recall, there was considerable discussion of Charlemange's descendants
within recent months. I came across the following web site and useful
information while researching another subject and thought I woukld pass it
along to others for their use.
There is a not-for-profit, membership organization called The International
Society of the Descendants of Charlemange, web URL:
http://charsoc.users4.50megs.com/
The Society is headed by the Most reverend Lowell A. Barker of Florida
(details at web site).
The following U.S. "gateway descendan's are listed at the site:
Robert Abell - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Margaret Wyatt Allyn - Connecticut
* John Alston - South Carolina
* Samuel Appleton - Massachusetts
* Col. Walter Aston - Virginia
* Col. Kenneth Baillie - Georgia
* Mrs. Elizabeth Alsop Baldwin - Connecticut
* Lancelot Bathurst - Virginia
* Christopher Batt - Massachusetts
* Henry Batte - Virginia
* Thomas Batte - Virginia
* Richard Bernard - Virginia
* Col. William Bernard - Virginia
* William Bladen - Maryland
* Joseph Bolles - Maine
* Thomas Boteler - Maryland
* Griffith Bowen - Massachusetts
* Thomas Bradbury - Massachusetts
* Christopher Branch - Virginia
* Thomas Bressie - Connecticut
* Edward Bromfield - Massachusetts
* Gov. Thomas Brooke - Maryland
* Obadiah Bruen - Connecticut
* Mrs. Thomasine Ward Thompson Buffum - Massachusetts
* Rev. Peter Bulkeley - Massachusetts
* Stephen Bull - South Carolina
* Isabel Burnett - New Jersey
* Mrs. Mary Lawrence Burnham - Massachusetts
* Thomas Bye - Pennsylvania
* John Cadwalader - Pennsylvania
* Hon. Anne Arundell Calvert Baroness Baltimore - Maryland
* Cecil Calvert, 2nd Baron Baltimore - Maryland
* Lady Charlotte Lee Calvert, Baroness Baltimore - Maryland
* Jane Lowe Sewall Calvert Baroness Baltimore - Maryland
* Edward Carleton - Massachusetts
* George Carrington - Virginia
* Mrs. Sarah Ludlow Carter - Virginia
* Rev. Charles Chauncey - Massachusetts
* Lady Agatha Eltonhead Kellaway Wormeley Chichele - Virginia
* Mrs. Elizabeth Boteler Claiborne - Virginia
* Acting Gov. Jeremiah Clarke - Rhode Island
* Matthew Clarkson - New York
* James Claypoole - Pennsylvania
* Mrs. Martha Eltonhead Conway - Virginia
* Henry Corbin - Virginia
* Anna Cordray - Virginia
* Gov. John Cranston - Rhode Island
* George Curwen - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Arabella Smith Dallas - Pennsylvania
* Rev. John Davenport - Connecticut
* Margaret Davis - Pennsylvania
* Gov. Edward Digges - Virginia
* Gov. Thomas Dudley - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Anne Lloyd Yale Eaton - Connecticut
* Mrs. Agnes Harris Spencer Edwards - Connecticut
* Mrs. Mary Fox Ellicott - Pennsylvania
* Mrs. Olive Welby Farwell - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Margery Maude Fisher - Delaware
* Edward FitzRandolph - New Jersey
* Rev. Edward Foliot - Virginia
* Col. Gerard Fowke - Virginia
* Thomas Gerard - Maryland
* Gov. Robert Gibbes - Virginia
* Mrs. Jane Lawrence Giddings - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Mary Mainwaring Gill - Maryland
* William Goddard - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Anne Lovelace Gorsuch - Maryland
* Muriel Gurdon - Massachusetts
* Alexander Hamilton - New York
* Mrs. Elizabeth Bulkeley Whittingham Haugh - Massachusetts
* Edmond Hawes - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Mabel Harlakenden Haynes - Connecticut
* John Henry - Virginia
* Warham Horsmanden - Virginia
* Mrs. Anne Marbury Hutchinson - Rhode Island
* Mrs. Catherine Hamby Hutchinson - Massachusetts
* William Ironmonger - Virginia
* John Irvine - Georgia
* Henry Isham - Virginia
* Gov. Edward Jennings - Virginia
* Mrs. Euphan Scott Johnstone - New Jersey
* Mary Jones - Pennsylvania
* Robert Jones - Pennsylvania
* Joseph Kirkbride - Pennsylvania
* John Lawrence - New York
* Thomas Lawrence - New York
* William Lawrence - New York
* Col. Thomas Ligon - Virginia
* Robert Livingston - New York
* Gov. William Leete - Connecticut
* Gov. Thomas Lloyd - Pennsylvania
* James Logan - Pennsylvania
* Gabriel Ludlow - New York
* Dep. Gov. Roger Ludlow - Connecticut
* Simon Lynde - Massachusetts
* Alexander Magruder - Maryland
* Oliver Mainwaring - Connecticut
* Mrs. Mary Gye Maverick - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Martha Bulkeley Mellowes - Massachusetts
* William Montgomery - New Jersey
* Mrs. Barbara Bennet Murray - North Carolina
* James Murray - Massachusetts
* James Neale - Maryland
* Mrs. Jane Deighton Lugg Negus - Massachusetts
* John Nelson - Massachusetts
* Hugh Owen - Pennsylvania
* Jane Owen - Pennsylvania
* Rebecca Owen - Pennsylvania
* Robert Owen - Pennsylvania
* Rev. John Oxenbridge - Massachusetts
* Dr. Richard Palgrave - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Anne Humphrey Palmes - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Alice Freeman Thompson Parke - Connecticut
* Herbert Pelham - Massachusetts
* Robert Peyton - Virginia
* William Poole - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Amy Wyllys Pynchon - Massachusetts
* William Randolph - Virginia
* Edward Raynsford - Massachusetts
* Col. George Reade - Virginia
* Gainor Roberts - Pennsylvania
* John Roberts - Pennsylvania
* Mrs. Sidney Rees Roberts - Pennsylvania
* Rev. George Ross - Delaware
* Walter Rutherford - New York
* Richard Saltonstall - Massachusetts
* Rev. William Sargent - Massachusetts
* Anthony Savage - Virginia
* Mrs. Katherine Marbury Scott - Rhode Island
* Mrs. Mary Launce Sherman - Massachusetts
* Gov. William Shirley - Massachusetts
* Robert Sinclair - New York
* Sir Grey Skipwith, 3rd Bt. - Virginia
* Lawrence Smith - Virginia
* Constant Southworth - Massachusetts
* Thomas Southworth - Massachusetts
* Gov. Alexander Spotswood - Virginia
* William Strother - Virginia
* Peter Talbot - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Elizabeth Stratton Thorndike - Massachusetts
* John Throckmorton - Rhode Island
* Richard Tilghman - Maryland
* Mrs. Jane Haviland Torrey - Massachusetts
* Lawrence Towneley - Virginia
* Thomas Trowbridge - Connecticut
* St. George Tucker - Virginia
* John Underhill - New York
* Col. John Waller - Virginia
* Mrs. Mary Towneley Warner - Virginia
* John Washington of Surry Co. - Virginia
* John Washington of Westmoreland Co. - Virginia
* Gov. John West - Virginia
* Mrs. Frances Deighton Williams - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Margaret Tyndal Winthrop - Massachusetts
* Jemima Waldegrave - Massachusetts
* William Wentworth - New Hampshire
* Dr. Thomas Wynne - Pennsylvania
* Thomas Yale - Connecticut
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Gary Smith
Re: Descendants of Charlemagne
Hi,
I've read at various times the asserted estimate that there must be
approximately one billion descendants of Charlemagne. That certainly
increases the number of gateways throughout the world, I'd say.
Cheers, Gary in Berkeley
"Rick Eaton" <eaton.noble@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:BE40F1CB.1A13%eaton.noble@sbcglobal.net...
I've read at various times the asserted estimate that there must be
approximately one billion descendants of Charlemagne. That certainly
increases the number of gateways throughout the world, I'd say.
Cheers, Gary in Berkeley
"Rick Eaton" <eaton.noble@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:BE40F1CB.1A13%eaton.noble@sbcglobal.net...
Hi hope that this is useful to researchers.
Apologies if any or all of this is redundant. I have not been able to be a
steady parfticipant or lurker lately with so many hospital strays and
clinic
visits.
As I recall, there was considerable discussion of Charlemange's
descendants
within recent months. I came across the following web site and useful
information while researching another subject and thought I woukld pass it
along to others for their use.
There is a not-for-profit, membership organization called The
International
Society of the Descendants of Charlemange, web URL:
http://charsoc.users4.50megs.com/
The Society is headed by the Most reverend Lowell A. Barker of Florida
(details at web site).
The following U.S. "gateway descendan's are listed at the site:
Robert Abell - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Margaret Wyatt Allyn - Connecticut
* John Alston - South Carolina
* Samuel Appleton - Massachusetts
* Col. Walter Aston - Virginia
* Col. Kenneth Baillie - Georgia
* Mrs. Elizabeth Alsop Baldwin - Connecticut
* Lancelot Bathurst - Virginia
* Christopher Batt - Massachusetts
* Henry Batte - Virginia
* Thomas Batte - Virginia
* Richard Bernard - Virginia
* Col. William Bernard - Virginia
* William Bladen - Maryland
* Joseph Bolles - Maine
* Thomas Boteler - Maryland
* Griffith Bowen - Massachusetts
* Thomas Bradbury - Massachusetts
* Christopher Branch - Virginia
* Thomas Bressie - Connecticut
* Edward Bromfield - Massachusetts
* Gov. Thomas Brooke - Maryland
* Obadiah Bruen - Connecticut
* Mrs. Thomasine Ward Thompson Buffum - Massachusetts
* Rev. Peter Bulkeley - Massachusetts
* Stephen Bull - South Carolina
* Isabel Burnett - New Jersey
* Mrs. Mary Lawrence Burnham - Massachusetts
* Thomas Bye - Pennsylvania
* John Cadwalader - Pennsylvania
* Hon. Anne Arundell Calvert Baroness Baltimore - Maryland
* Cecil Calvert, 2nd Baron Baltimore - Maryland
* Lady Charlotte Lee Calvert, Baroness Baltimore - Maryland
* Jane Lowe Sewall Calvert Baroness Baltimore - Maryland
* Edward Carleton - Massachusetts
* George Carrington - Virginia
* Mrs. Sarah Ludlow Carter - Virginia
* Rev. Charles Chauncey - Massachusetts
* Lady Agatha Eltonhead Kellaway Wormeley Chichele - Virginia
* Mrs. Elizabeth Boteler Claiborne - Virginia
* Acting Gov. Jeremiah Clarke - Rhode Island
* Matthew Clarkson - New York
* James Claypoole - Pennsylvania
* Mrs. Martha Eltonhead Conway - Virginia
* Henry Corbin - Virginia
* Anna Cordray - Virginia
* Gov. John Cranston - Rhode Island
* George Curwen - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Arabella Smith Dallas - Pennsylvania
* Rev. John Davenport - Connecticut
* Margaret Davis - Pennsylvania
* Gov. Edward Digges - Virginia
* Gov. Thomas Dudley - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Anne Lloyd Yale Eaton - Connecticut
* Mrs. Agnes Harris Spencer Edwards - Connecticut
* Mrs. Mary Fox Ellicott - Pennsylvania
* Mrs. Olive Welby Farwell - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Margery Maude Fisher - Delaware
* Edward FitzRandolph - New Jersey
* Rev. Edward Foliot - Virginia
* Col. Gerard Fowke - Virginia
* Thomas Gerard - Maryland
* Gov. Robert Gibbes - Virginia
* Mrs. Jane Lawrence Giddings - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Mary Mainwaring Gill - Maryland
* William Goddard - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Anne Lovelace Gorsuch - Maryland
* Muriel Gurdon - Massachusetts
* Alexander Hamilton - New York
* Mrs. Elizabeth Bulkeley Whittingham Haugh - Massachusetts
* Edmond Hawes - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Mabel Harlakenden Haynes - Connecticut
* John Henry - Virginia
* Warham Horsmanden - Virginia
* Mrs. Anne Marbury Hutchinson - Rhode Island
* Mrs. Catherine Hamby Hutchinson - Massachusetts
* William Ironmonger - Virginia
* John Irvine - Georgia
* Henry Isham - Virginia
* Gov. Edward Jennings - Virginia
* Mrs. Euphan Scott Johnstone - New Jersey
* Mary Jones - Pennsylvania
* Robert Jones - Pennsylvania
* Joseph Kirkbride - Pennsylvania
* John Lawrence - New York
* Thomas Lawrence - New York
* William Lawrence - New York
* Col. Thomas Ligon - Virginia
* Robert Livingston - New York
* Gov. William Leete - Connecticut
* Gov. Thomas Lloyd - Pennsylvania
* James Logan - Pennsylvania
* Gabriel Ludlow - New York
* Dep. Gov. Roger Ludlow - Connecticut
* Simon Lynde - Massachusetts
* Alexander Magruder - Maryland
* Oliver Mainwaring - Connecticut
* Mrs. Mary Gye Maverick - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Martha Bulkeley Mellowes - Massachusetts
* William Montgomery - New Jersey
* Mrs. Barbara Bennet Murray - North Carolina
* James Murray - Massachusetts
* James Neale - Maryland
* Mrs. Jane Deighton Lugg Negus - Massachusetts
* John Nelson - Massachusetts
* Hugh Owen - Pennsylvania
* Jane Owen - Pennsylvania
* Rebecca Owen - Pennsylvania
* Robert Owen - Pennsylvania
* Rev. John Oxenbridge - Massachusetts
* Dr. Richard Palgrave - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Anne Humphrey Palmes - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Alice Freeman Thompson Parke - Connecticut
* Herbert Pelham - Massachusetts
* Robert Peyton - Virginia
* William Poole - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Amy Wyllys Pynchon - Massachusetts
* William Randolph - Virginia
* Edward Raynsford - Massachusetts
* Col. George Reade - Virginia
* Gainor Roberts - Pennsylvania
* John Roberts - Pennsylvania
* Mrs. Sidney Rees Roberts - Pennsylvania
* Rev. George Ross - Delaware
* Walter Rutherford - New York
* Richard Saltonstall - Massachusetts
* Rev. William Sargent - Massachusetts
* Anthony Savage - Virginia
* Mrs. Katherine Marbury Scott - Rhode Island
* Mrs. Mary Launce Sherman - Massachusetts
* Gov. William Shirley - Massachusetts
* Robert Sinclair - New York
* Sir Grey Skipwith, 3rd Bt. - Virginia
* Lawrence Smith - Virginia
* Constant Southworth - Massachusetts
* Thomas Southworth - Massachusetts
* Gov. Alexander Spotswood - Virginia
* William Strother - Virginia
* Peter Talbot - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Elizabeth Stratton Thorndike - Massachusetts
* John Throckmorton - Rhode Island
* Richard Tilghman - Maryland
* Mrs. Jane Haviland Torrey - Massachusetts
* Lawrence Towneley - Virginia
* Thomas Trowbridge - Connecticut
* St. George Tucker - Virginia
* John Underhill - New York
* Col. John Waller - Virginia
* Mrs. Mary Towneley Warner - Virginia
* John Washington of Surry Co. - Virginia
* John Washington of Westmoreland Co. - Virginia
* Gov. John West - Virginia
* Mrs. Frances Deighton Williams - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Margaret Tyndal Winthrop - Massachusetts
* Jemima Waldegrave - Massachusetts
* William Wentworth - New Hampshire
* Dr. Thomas Wynne - Pennsylvania
* Thomas Yale - Connecticut
-
Nathaniel Taylor
Re: Descendants of Charlemagne
In article <BE40F1CB.1A13%eaton.noble@sbcglobal.net>,
eaton.noble@sbcglobal.net (Rick Eaton) wrote:
....
[etc., down through:]
This list is simply an alphabetical rearrangement of Gary Boyd Roberts'
list of 167 17th-century immigrants with royal descents (all obviously
also descended from Charlemagne) from his first Royal Descents book,
_The Royal Descents of 500 Immigrants..._ (Baltimore, 1993), pp. xl-xlvi.
Mr. Barker's enterprise should not be confused with the 'Order of the
Crown of Charlemagne', which has its own website at
http://www.charlemagne.org
and which was founded in 1939.
Nat Taylor
a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/
eaton.noble@sbcglobal.net (Rick Eaton) wrote:
As I recall, there was considerable discussion of Charlemange's descendants
within recent months. I came across the following web site and useful
information while researching another subject and thought I woukld pass it
along to others for their use.
There is a not-for-profit, membership organization called The International
Society of the Descendants of Charlemange, web URL:
http://charsoc.users4.50megs.com/
The Society is headed by the Most reverend Lowell A. Barker of Florida
(details at web site).
The following U.S. gateway descendants are listed at the site:
* Robert Abell - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Margaret Wyatt Allyn - Connecticut
* John Alston - South Carolina
* Samuel Appleton - Massachusetts
* Col. Walter Aston - Virginia
....
[etc., down through:]
* Thomas Yale - Connecticut
This list is simply an alphabetical rearrangement of Gary Boyd Roberts'
list of 167 17th-century immigrants with royal descents (all obviously
also descended from Charlemagne) from his first Royal Descents book,
_The Royal Descents of 500 Immigrants..._ (Baltimore, 1993), pp. xl-xlvi.
Mr. Barker's enterprise should not be confused with the 'Order of the
Crown of Charlemagne', which has its own website at
http://www.charlemagne.org
and which was founded in 1939.
Nat Taylor
a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/
-
Gordon Banks
Re: Descendants of Charlemagne
Another money-making website?
On Wed, 2005-02-23 at 00:19 +0000, Nathaniel Taylor wrote:
Gordon Banks <geb@gordonbanks.com>
On Wed, 2005-02-23 at 00:19 +0000, Nathaniel Taylor wrote:
In article <BE40F1CB.1A13%eaton.noble@sbcglobal.net>,
eaton.noble@sbcglobal.net (Rick Eaton) wrote:
As I recall, there was considerable discussion of Charlemange's descendants
within recent months. I came across the following web site and useful
information while researching another subject and thought I woukld pass it
along to others for their use.
There is a not-for-profit, membership organization called The International
Society of the Descendants of Charlemange, web URL:
http://charsoc.users4.50megs.com/
The Society is headed by the Most reverend Lowell A. Barker of Florida
(details at web site).
The following U.S. gateway descendants are listed at the site:
* Robert Abell - Massachusetts
* Mrs. Margaret Wyatt Allyn - Connecticut
* John Alston - South Carolina
* Samuel Appleton - Massachusetts
* Col. Walter Aston - Virginia
...
[etc., down through:]
* Thomas Yale - Connecticut
This list is simply an alphabetical rearrangement of Gary Boyd Roberts'
list of 167 17th-century immigrants with royal descents (all obviously
also descended from Charlemagne) from his first Royal Descents book,
_The Royal Descents of 500 Immigrants..._ (Baltimore, 1993), pp. xl-xlvi.
Mr. Barker's enterprise should not be confused with the 'Order of the
Crown of Charlemagne', which has its own website at
http://www.charlemagne.org
and which was founded in 1939.
Nat Taylor
a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/
--
Gordon Banks <geb@gordonbanks.com>
-
Nathaniel Taylor
Re: Descendants of Charlemagne
In article <1109118874.31490.5.camel@localhost.localdomain>,
geb@gordonbanks.com (Gordon Banks) wrote:
[re: the 'International Society of the Descendants of Charlemagne']
Googling "Lowell Barker" or "Lowell A. Barker" yields a bit of
background on this individual. For example see his name cropping up in
one of Guy Stair Sainty's informative pages on fake chivalric orders:
http://www.chivalricorders.org/orders/s ... fstlod.htm
or the first section of this musing by 'Dr. Pangloss', titled "The
Chivalric Emporium of West Virginia" (Barker's former home), on-line at
James J. Algrant's website 'Caltrap's Corner':
http://www.maineworldnewsservice.com/ca ... ivalri.htm
or see Usenet message-id
<50ce3b45.0306101002.dccd3e0@posting.google.com>
to this list, in 2003.
He seems innocuous enough in his correspondence with Leo, but Mr. Barker
obviously has a history of selling fantasy chivalric orders (and calling
himself an archbishop at some point). Perhaps now he's simply quietly
profiting from serial joiners, selling simple memberships and not
knighthoods. I assume his Charlemagne society has no existence as a
social entity (does it throw parties, sponsor essay contests, or spend
money on anything socially worthwhile?), but this could also be said of
many--if not most--American lineage societies.
Nat Taylor
a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/
geb@gordonbanks.com (Gordon Banks) wrote:
[re: the 'International Society of the Descendants of Charlemagne']
Another money-making website?
Googling "Lowell Barker" or "Lowell A. Barker" yields a bit of
background on this individual. For example see his name cropping up in
one of Guy Stair Sainty's informative pages on fake chivalric orders:
http://www.chivalricorders.org/orders/s ... fstlod.htm
or the first section of this musing by 'Dr. Pangloss', titled "The
Chivalric Emporium of West Virginia" (Barker's former home), on-line at
James J. Algrant's website 'Caltrap's Corner':
http://www.maineworldnewsservice.com/ca ... ivalri.htm
or see Usenet message-id
<50ce3b45.0306101002.dccd3e0@posting.google.com>
to this list, in 2003.
He seems innocuous enough in his correspondence with Leo, but Mr. Barker
obviously has a history of selling fantasy chivalric orders (and calling
himself an archbishop at some point). Perhaps now he's simply quietly
profiting from serial joiners, selling simple memberships and not
knighthoods. I assume his Charlemagne society has no existence as a
social entity (does it throw parties, sponsor essay contests, or spend
money on anything socially worthwhile?), but this could also be said of
many--if not most--American lineage societies.
Nat Taylor
a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/
-
Gordon Banks
Re: Descendants of Charlemagne
I wonder why people join such societies, just for bragging rights?
Surely with the Internet we can get together groups like this one that
share information better than such a society.
Maybe we should start a Sancha de Ayala Society.
On Wed, 2005-02-23 at 01:55 +0000, Nathaniel Taylor wrote:
Gordon Banks <geb@gordonbanks.com>
Surely with the Internet we can get together groups like this one that
share information better than such a society.
Maybe we should start a Sancha de Ayala Society.
On Wed, 2005-02-23 at 01:55 +0000, Nathaniel Taylor wrote:
In article <1109118874.31490.5.camel@localhost.localdomain>,
geb@gordonbanks.com (Gordon Banks) wrote:
[re: the 'International Society of the Descendants of Charlemagne']
Another money-making website?
Googling "Lowell Barker" or "Lowell A. Barker" yields a bit of
background on this individual. For example see his name cropping up in
one of Guy Stair Sainty's informative pages on fake chivalric orders:
http://www.chivalricorders.org/orders/s ... fstlod.htm
or the first section of this musing by 'Dr. Pangloss', titled "The
Chivalric Emporium of West Virginia" (Barker's former home), on-line at
James J. Algrant's website 'Caltrap's Corner':
http://www.maineworldnewsservice.com/ca ... ivalri.htm
or see Usenet message-id
50ce3b45.0306101002.dccd3e0@posting.google.com
to this list, in 2003.
He seems innocuous enough in his correspondence with Leo, but Mr. Barker
obviously has a history of selling fantasy chivalric orders (and calling
himself an archbishop at some point). Perhaps now he's simply quietly
profiting from serial joiners, selling simple memberships and not
knighthoods. I assume his Charlemagne society has no existence as a
social entity (does it throw parties, sponsor essay contests, or spend
money on anything socially worthwhile?), but this could also be said of
many--if not most--American lineage societies.
Nat Taylor
a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/
--
Gordon Banks <geb@gordonbanks.com>
-
Nathaniel Taylor
Re: Descendants of Charlemagne
In article <1109191834.633.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>,
geb@gordonbanks.com (Gordon Banks) wrote:
I can't lay a finger on it, but I read about a sherry, marketed in the
mid 20th century with the label 'El Cid', which tried to bank on the
idea of descendants of El Cid.
Nat Taylor
a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/
geb@gordonbanks.com (Gordon Banks) wrote:
I wonder why people join such societies, just for bragging rights?
Surely with the Internet we can get together groups like this one that
share information better than such a society.
Maybe we should start a Sancha de Ayala Society.
I can't lay a finger on it, but I read about a sherry, marketed in the
mid 20th century with the label 'El Cid', which tried to bank on the
idea of descendants of El Cid.
Nat Taylor
a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/
-
Leo van de Pas
Re: Descendants of Charlemagne
Dear Gordon,
You can be proud of your ancestors and you can brag if you can find a link
to people living over a thousand years ago (I can't), I think there is
nothing wrong with that BUT it doesn't make you better or different from
anyone else. I know you agree with this.
What I think is a pity, is that this International Charlemagne Society seems
to be such a closed shop, "You give us information, we only give you your
ancestors and that is it".
I believe in sharing and let others have access to information as then you
have a chance that someone will make corrections and additions. There is
always room for improvement.
I think the idea of a Charlemagne or Sancha de Ayala group/society is
interesting as long as it involves sharing knowledge and being open with the
details collected. I think Charlemagne has a unique position in history as
well as in genealogy, but so does Sancha de Ayala, William the Conqueror,
Robert the Bruce, William the Silent, Gustaf Vasa and
many others, but Charlemagne stands out. He is the first and most of the
others mentioned are his descendants. I think Charlemagne steered Europe
into a direction which has had effects to the present.
I agree with Gordon that we should share our information, but then we
already do on gen-med. I think Stewart Baldwin is another example of sharing
highly specialised information.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon Banks" <geb@gordonbanks.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: Descendants of Charlemagne
You can be proud of your ancestors and you can brag if you can find a link
to people living over a thousand years ago (I can't), I think there is
nothing wrong with that BUT it doesn't make you better or different from
anyone else. I know you agree with this.
What I think is a pity, is that this International Charlemagne Society seems
to be such a closed shop, "You give us information, we only give you your
ancestors and that is it".
I believe in sharing and let others have access to information as then you
have a chance that someone will make corrections and additions. There is
always room for improvement.
I think the idea of a Charlemagne or Sancha de Ayala group/society is
interesting as long as it involves sharing knowledge and being open with the
details collected. I think Charlemagne has a unique position in history as
well as in genealogy, but so does Sancha de Ayala, William the Conqueror,
Robert the Bruce, William the Silent, Gustaf Vasa and
many others, but Charlemagne stands out. He is the first and most of the
others mentioned are his descendants. I think Charlemagne steered Europe
into a direction which has had effects to the present.
I agree with Gordon that we should share our information, but then we
already do on gen-med. I think Stewart Baldwin is another example of sharing
highly specialised information.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon Banks" <geb@gordonbanks.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: Descendants of Charlemagne
I wonder why people join such societies, just for bragging rights?
Surely with the Internet we can get together groups like this one that
share information better than such a society.
Maybe we should start a Sancha de Ayala Society.
On Wed, 2005-02-23 at 01:55 +0000, Nathaniel Taylor wrote:
In article <1109118874.31490.5.camel@localhost.localdomain>,
geb@gordonbanks.com (Gordon Banks) wrote:
[re: the 'International Society of the Descendants of Charlemagne']
Another money-making website?
Googling "Lowell Barker" or "Lowell A. Barker" yields a bit of
background on this individual. For example see his name cropping up in
one of Guy Stair Sainty's informative pages on fake chivalric orders:
http://www.chivalricorders.org/orders/s ... fstlod.htm
or the first section of this musing by 'Dr. Pangloss', titled "The
Chivalric Emporium of West Virginia" (Barker's former home), on-line at
James J. Algrant's website 'Caltrap's Corner':
http://www.maineworldnewsservice.com/ca ... ivalri.htm
or see Usenet message-id
50ce3b45.0306101002.dccd3e0@posting.google.com
to this list, in 2003.
He seems innocuous enough in his correspondence with Leo, but Mr. Barker
obviously has a history of selling fantasy chivalric orders (and calling
himself an archbishop at some point). Perhaps now he's simply quietly
profiting from serial joiners, selling simple memberships and not
knighthoods. I assume his Charlemagne society has no existence as a
social entity (does it throw parties, sponsor essay contests, or spend
money on anything socially worthwhile?), but this could also be said of
many--if not most--American lineage societies.
Nat Taylor
a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/
--
Gordon Banks <geb@gordonbanks.com
-
Dolly Ziegler
Sancha de Ayala Society (was: Descendants of Charlemagne)
On Wed, 23 Feb 2005, Gordon Banks wrote:
Oh yes, delicious heraldic trappings. May I suggest: Sources required. No
dues. No meetings. Need a motto. As many officers as can be inveigled.
Should we have a recognition pin? No secret handshake, though, I think.
Gordon, will you accept the post of chairman?
At google.com, click images, search for "sancha de ayala" [with the quote
marks], the two related hits are interesting. I was hoping for an effigy
of Walter and Sancha but no luck.
Cheers, Dolly in Maryland USA
I wonder why people join such societies, just for bragging rights?
Surely with the Internet we can get together groups like this one that
share information better than such a society.
Maybe we should start a Sancha de Ayala Society.
Oh yes, delicious heraldic trappings. May I suggest: Sources required. No
dues. No meetings. Need a motto. As many officers as can be inveigled.
Should we have a recognition pin? No secret handshake, though, I think.
Gordon, will you accept the post of chairman?
At google.com, click images, search for "sancha de ayala" [with the quote
marks], the two related hits are interesting. I was hoping for an effigy
of Walter and Sancha but no luck.
Cheers, Dolly in Maryland USA
-
Gjest
Re: Descendants of Charlemagne
Leo wrote: "I believe in sharing and let others have access to information as then you have a chance that someone will make corrections and additions. "
I agree with Leo. Frequently, as a professional genealogist, people will complain to me that they don't want to "resell all the research *they've* done". I have to explain that I don't resell other people's research.
What I sell is my *time* to do the research, not the results of that research. My results, are all posted, free-for-all, on various web sites, including my own.
So if you're patient and lucky you may get free results if one of your relatives pays me to reseach part of the shared line. If you're less patient, then you can pay me to sit and spin microfilm reels or get into a sneezing fit looking through old ledgers.
I don't see who the Charlemagne Society thinks its going to fool. With the large databases of http://www.ancestry.com, http://www.familysearch.org, http://www.genealogy.com, and of course Leo's database and others it is doubtful that there are any already-researched Charlemagne descents (within the first 20 generations at any rate) that are not posted at least in one place already.
And of course there are many that are spurious most likely, and which are posted all over the place. Which doesn't stop those who wish they had a royal connection from adopting those lines without question.
Will
I agree with Leo. Frequently, as a professional genealogist, people will complain to me that they don't want to "resell all the research *they've* done". I have to explain that I don't resell other people's research.
What I sell is my *time* to do the research, not the results of that research. My results, are all posted, free-for-all, on various web sites, including my own.
So if you're patient and lucky you may get free results if one of your relatives pays me to reseach part of the shared line. If you're less patient, then you can pay me to sit and spin microfilm reels or get into a sneezing fit looking through old ledgers.
I don't see who the Charlemagne Society thinks its going to fool. With the large databases of http://www.ancestry.com, http://www.familysearch.org, http://www.genealogy.com, and of course Leo's database and others it is doubtful that there are any already-researched Charlemagne descents (within the first 20 generations at any rate) that are not posted at least in one place already.
And of course there are many that are spurious most likely, and which are posted all over the place. Which doesn't stop those who wish they had a royal connection from adopting those lines without question.
Will
-
Tim Powys-Lybbe
Re: Descendants of Charlemagne
In message of 23 Feb, WJhonson@aol.com wrote:
The last time I looked, at least a couple of years ago, the problem I
found with all the Charlemagne databases that I came across was that
none of them had any research information to go with them, leo's apart
of course. I suspect that if that had changed, we would have heard
about it on this group. Has it changed?
(Nor have I found any reasonably priced book to do this, certainly
nothing anywhere near the quality of CP.)
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
With the large databases of http://www.ancestry.com, http://www.familysearch.org,
http://www.genealogy.com, and of course Leo's database and others it is
doubtful that there are any already-researched Charlemagne descents
(within the first 20 generations at any rate) that are not posted at
least in one place already. And of course there are many that are
spurious most likely, and which are posted all over the place.
The last time I looked, at least a couple of years ago, the problem I
found with all the Charlemagne databases that I came across was that
none of them had any research information to go with them, leo's apart
of course. I suspect that if that had changed, we would have heard
about it on this group. Has it changed?
(Nor have I found any reasonably priced book to do this, certainly
nothing anywhere near the quality of CP.)
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
-
Denis Beauregard
Re: Descendants of Charlemagne
On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 23:14:33 GMT, Tim Powys-Lybbe <tim@powys.org>
wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:
Sources ? What's that !
The major Quebec resources are as follows:
DGFC/Tanguay (1870-1891): no source (but most data is from records)
DNCF/Red Drouin (1958): no source (most data is from DGFC)
DGFQ/Jette (1983): the first general purpose book to have sources
and not always. Usually, only the major work about a given family
(no page is a book, volume and page is a review).
DGQA/Desjardins (2001?): CD-ROM, no source
FFAN/Beauregard (in preparation): most sources will be indicated
The major Acadian resources are as follows:
HGA/Arsenault: very few sources (the dates are usually skipped when
known)
GAAQ/Bergeron: very few sources
DGFA/White: all sources and a lot of comments
I think you will see something similar with New England early gen.
like Torrey, Savage or Clemens.
Most major works have no sources or only a list of sources at the
end of the book. So, giving the sources is not very typical !
But in medieval genealogy, it can be somewhat different. For
instances, the Quartiers des reines et impératrices de France,
or Sang de Charlemagne, sources are there. In DelaChenaye-Desbois,
St-Allais, there are few sources. So, older resources have few or
no sources. Recent printed resources have more sources but
computer based have few or none.
Denis
--
0 Denis Beauregard
/\/ http://www.francogene.com
|\ >>Adresse modifiée souvent/email changed frequently<<
/ | Société généalogique canadienne-française
oo oo http://www.sgcf.com
wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:
In message of 23 Feb, WJhonson@aol.com wrote:
With the large databases of http://www.ancestry.com, http://www.familysearch.org,
http://www.genealogy.com, and of course Leo's database and others it is
doubtful that there are any already-researched Charlemagne descents
(within the first 20 generations at any rate) that are not posted at
least in one place already. And of course there are many that are
spurious most likely, and which are posted all over the place.
The last time I looked, at least a couple of years ago, the problem I
found with all the Charlemagne databases that I came across was that
none of them had any research information to go with them, leo's apart
of course. I suspect that if that had changed, we would have heard
about it on this group. Has it changed?
Sources ? What's that !
The major Quebec resources are as follows:
DGFC/Tanguay (1870-1891): no source (but most data is from records)
DNCF/Red Drouin (1958): no source (most data is from DGFC)
DGFQ/Jette (1983): the first general purpose book to have sources
and not always. Usually, only the major work about a given family
(no page is a book, volume and page is a review).
DGQA/Desjardins (2001?): CD-ROM, no source
FFAN/Beauregard (in preparation): most sources will be indicated
The major Acadian resources are as follows:
HGA/Arsenault: very few sources (the dates are usually skipped when
known)
GAAQ/Bergeron: very few sources
DGFA/White: all sources and a lot of comments
I think you will see something similar with New England early gen.
like Torrey, Savage or Clemens.
Most major works have no sources or only a list of sources at the
end of the book. So, giving the sources is not very typical !
But in medieval genealogy, it can be somewhat different. For
instances, the Quartiers des reines et impératrices de France,
or Sang de Charlemagne, sources are there. In DelaChenaye-Desbois,
St-Allais, there are few sources. So, older resources have few or
no sources. Recent printed resources have more sources but
computer based have few or none.
Denis
--
0 Denis Beauregard
/\/ http://www.francogene.com
|\ >>Adresse modifiée souvent/email changed frequently<<
/ | Société généalogique canadienne-française
oo oo http://www.sgcf.com
-
Gjest
Re: Descendants of Charlemagne
Tim wrote: "The last time I looked, at least a couple of years ago, the problem I found with all the Charlemagne databases that I came across was that none of them had any research information to go with them..."
You are quite right Tim. Most people, once they hit a royal vein, spend huge amounts of time just trying to enter all the NAMES and dates into a file, let along all the extra detail for which you are looking.
I know I am as guilty as the next person of that. There are just such a huge number of ancestors to enter. It can take a dedicated typist a year I suspect. And then after that is finished, you lurk on here and cut and paste responses and "fix" the data up as you go along.
One of the more useful sources is the http://www.familysearch.org Medieval Research section. Sometimes when you look underneath an IGI entry it will say something like "Medieval Research". I've stumbled acros this now and then and I believe it means they are copying data out of actual original documents, but I'm not sure.
At any rate the Ancestral File attempts to create just one single entry for each individual. The IGI creates one entry for each DOCUMENT. Quite a different thing. In the Ancestral File they have attempted to coalesce the various information about an individual, so the entry for King Richard III of England can be counted on to be at least mostly accurate whereas of course the entry for Martha Smith 1805 is only as good as the one or two people who submitted on that person. There are probably a few hundred people who've submitted information on King Richard III.
SO just like http://www.wikipedia.com, the more submitters to the Ancestral File, the better it is supposed to be getting. As for sources, I agree with Denis that for late Medieval Quebec 1600-1660, Jette is the best, he gives sources on each family unit instead of just lumping them all at the back of the book. I have used his information to find some of the original documents, and in one case at least was able to extend and correct what he had listed.
Also, it's a painstaking exercise, but you WILL find on the Ancestral World Tree (at http://www.ancestry.com) that there are people, like myself, who do attempt to give sources for certain facts and in some cases full biographies. It's just hard to search through 300 entries on Richard III, to find the "best" one. So for the famous I use http://www.wikipedia.org and for the not-so-famous http://www.familysearch.org and http://www.ancestry.com and of course this list.
Will
You are quite right Tim. Most people, once they hit a royal vein, spend huge amounts of time just trying to enter all the NAMES and dates into a file, let along all the extra detail for which you are looking.
I know I am as guilty as the next person of that. There are just such a huge number of ancestors to enter. It can take a dedicated typist a year I suspect. And then after that is finished, you lurk on here and cut and paste responses and "fix" the data up as you go along.
One of the more useful sources is the http://www.familysearch.org Medieval Research section. Sometimes when you look underneath an IGI entry it will say something like "Medieval Research". I've stumbled acros this now and then and I believe it means they are copying data out of actual original documents, but I'm not sure.
At any rate the Ancestral File attempts to create just one single entry for each individual. The IGI creates one entry for each DOCUMENT. Quite a different thing. In the Ancestral File they have attempted to coalesce the various information about an individual, so the entry for King Richard III of England can be counted on to be at least mostly accurate whereas of course the entry for Martha Smith 1805 is only as good as the one or two people who submitted on that person. There are probably a few hundred people who've submitted information on King Richard III.
SO just like http://www.wikipedia.com, the more submitters to the Ancestral File, the better it is supposed to be getting. As for sources, I agree with Denis that for late Medieval Quebec 1600-1660, Jette is the best, he gives sources on each family unit instead of just lumping them all at the back of the book. I have used his information to find some of the original documents, and in one case at least was able to extend and correct what he had listed.
Also, it's a painstaking exercise, but you WILL find on the Ancestral World Tree (at http://www.ancestry.com) that there are people, like myself, who do attempt to give sources for certain facts and in some cases full biographies. It's just hard to search through 300 entries on Richard III, to find the "best" one. So for the famous I use http://www.wikipedia.org and for the not-so-famous http://www.familysearch.org and http://www.ancestry.com and of course this list.
Will
-
Renia
Re: Descendants of Charlemagne
WJhonson@aol.com wrote:
It appears to me that this "Medieval Research Section" comprises
material taken from published works, such as Burke's.
FamilySearch is more usful for material from Parish Registers and
Bishop's Transcripts. Anything else, you hold your breath and hope.
Renia
One of the more useful sources is the http://www.familysearch.org Medieval Research section. Sometimes when you look underneath an IGI entry it will say something like "Medieval Research". I've stumbled acros this now and then and I believe it means they are copying data out of actual original documents, but I'm not sure.
It appears to me that this "Medieval Research Section" comprises
material taken from published works, such as Burke's.
FamilySearch is more usful for material from Parish Registers and
Bishop's Transcripts. Anything else, you hold your breath and hope.
Renia
-
Dolly Ziegler
Using Ancestral File, IGI, Pedigree Resource File, British I
Hello to the list. I'm truly sorry to tell you that you cannot rely on
medieval lineages in the Ancestral File of the Family History
Department, even those processed by the Medieval Families Unit. I wish it
were reliable! Renia is correct, published works were used.
There are some real howlers, impossible chronologies. Use Ancestral File
only as a clue, then work to find source material.
The Ancestral File has been closed to new entries. People (not only LDS
Church members) are now encouraged to contribute their lines to the
Pedigree Resource File (PRF), also at http://www.familysearch.org
An index to PRF (many millions of names with other data) is online. For
the full files, you have a choice: Go to a Family History Center that has
bought the PRF on CD -- more than 90 of the CDs now, IIRC -- or buy the
CDs for yourself. The first 75 cost $177 (total), but use is free at a
FHC. Some of us think the entire database will be online "someday" but
that has not been announced. ($177 is correct, not a typo. Still more than
I want to spend. That's my Scots ancestry.)
The oldest of these huge LDS Church databases, the International
Genealogical Index (IGI), is an index to church ordinances. It's important
to know the difference between "patron submissions" -- where the accuracy
varies; and "extracted" entries which have a good degree of accuracy (but
always look at the original yourself!) Most originals will be on
microfilm.
Always use the online IGI, which is current. The microfiche version at
FHCs is at least 10 years out of date, and the CD version also is out of
date. Some FHCs keep the older versions because of reports that in a few
instances, they have information that is not online. My (unsupported)
opinion is that this is a rare situation.
If you are at an FHC, ask if they have the British Isles Vital Records
Index 2nd edition: 16 CDs with partial (NOT COMPLETE) extracted civil and
church records dating from 1530 to 1906. It's my understanding that all
these will eventually be in the online IGI -- but I don't know when. (This
set, too, is available for purchase, $20. But most FHCs will have it.)
The website has a breakdown of how many births/christenings and marriages
are available for each county in England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales.
"This collection does not contain all available records from this time
period or from these localities."
Cheers, Dolly in Maryland USA
medieval lineages in the Ancestral File of the Family History
Department, even those processed by the Medieval Families Unit. I wish it
were reliable! Renia is correct, published works were used.
There are some real howlers, impossible chronologies. Use Ancestral File
only as a clue, then work to find source material.
The Ancestral File has been closed to new entries. People (not only LDS
Church members) are now encouraged to contribute their lines to the
Pedigree Resource File (PRF), also at http://www.familysearch.org
An index to PRF (many millions of names with other data) is online. For
the full files, you have a choice: Go to a Family History Center that has
bought the PRF on CD -- more than 90 of the CDs now, IIRC -- or buy the
CDs for yourself. The first 75 cost $177 (total), but use is free at a
FHC. Some of us think the entire database will be online "someday" but
that has not been announced. ($177 is correct, not a typo. Still more than
I want to spend. That's my Scots ancestry.)
The oldest of these huge LDS Church databases, the International
Genealogical Index (IGI), is an index to church ordinances. It's important
to know the difference between "patron submissions" -- where the accuracy
varies; and "extracted" entries which have a good degree of accuracy (but
always look at the original yourself!) Most originals will be on
microfilm.
Always use the online IGI, which is current. The microfiche version at
FHCs is at least 10 years out of date, and the CD version also is out of
date. Some FHCs keep the older versions because of reports that in a few
instances, they have information that is not online. My (unsupported)
opinion is that this is a rare situation.
If you are at an FHC, ask if they have the British Isles Vital Records
Index 2nd edition: 16 CDs with partial (NOT COMPLETE) extracted civil and
church records dating from 1530 to 1906. It's my understanding that all
these will eventually be in the online IGI -- but I don't know when. (This
set, too, is available for purchase, $20. But most FHCs will have it.)
The website has a breakdown of how many births/christenings and marriages
are available for each county in England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales.
"This collection does not contain all available records from this time
period or from these localities."
Cheers, Dolly in Maryland USA
-
Gordon Banks
Re: Descendants of Charlemagne
I don't think Ancestral File is actively taking new submissions.
Perhaps Doug can comment since he is there often.
On Wed, 2005-02-23 at 20:27 -0500, WJhonson@aol.com wrote:
Gordon Banks <geb@gordonbanks.com>
Perhaps Doug can comment since he is there often.
On Wed, 2005-02-23 at 20:27 -0500, WJhonson@aol.com wrote:
Tim wrote: "The last time I looked, at least a couple of years ago, the problem I found with all the Charlemagne databases that I came across was that none of them had any research information to go with them..."
You are quite right Tim. Most people, once they hit a royal vein, spend huge amounts of time just trying to enter all the NAMES and dates into a file, let along all the extra detail for which you are looking.
I know I am as guilty as the next person of that. There are just such a huge number of ancestors to enter. It can take a dedicated typist a year I suspect. And then after that is finished, you lurk on here and cut and paste responses and "fix" the data up as you go along.
One of the more useful sources is the http://www.familysearch.org Medieval Research section. Sometimes when you look underneath an IGI entry it will say something like "Medieval Research". I've stumbled acros this now and then and I believe it means they are copying data out of actual original documents, but I'm not sure.
At any rate the Ancestral File attempts to create just one single entry for each individual. The IGI creates one entry for each DOCUMENT. Quite a different thing. In the Ancestral File they have attempted to coalesce the various information about an individual, so the entry for King Richard III of England can be counted on to be at least mostly accurate whereas of course the entry for Martha Smith 1805 is only as good as the one or two people who submitted on that person. There are probably a few hundred people who've submitted information on King Richard III.
SO just like http://www.wikipedia.com, the more submitters to the Ancestral File, the better it is supposed to be getting. As for sources, I agree with Denis that for late Medieval Quebec 1600-1660, Jette is the best, he gives sources on each family unit instead of just lumping them all at the back of the book. I have used his information to find some of the original documents, and in one case at least was able to extend and correct what he had listed.
Also, it's a painstaking exercise, but you WILL find on the Ancestral World Tree (at http://www.ancestry.com) that there are people, like myself, who do attempt to give sources for certain facts and in some cases full biographies. It's just hard to search through 300 entries on Richard III, to find the "best" one. So for the famous I use http://www.wikipedia.org and for the not-so-famous http://www.familysearch.org and http://www.ancestry.com and of course this list.
Will
--
Gordon Banks <geb@gordonbanks.com>
-
Douglas Richardson royala
New Ancestral File
Dear Gordon ~
The Medieval Families Unit was reactived about three years ago under
the direction of Mrs. Debbie Latimer. The reactivated unit has been
working on revising the medieval part of the Ancestral File for England
and other countries. They've already canvassed a lot of secondary
sources which are in print. At some point the unit plans to release a
revised edition of the Ancestral File. So far, there has been no
annoucement about a release date.
Based on my discussions with Mrs. Latimer, it is apparent that the
medieval part of the revised Ancestral File will be much superior to
the one currently in use. Among other things, I believe they plan to
include a list of sources for each family in the revised Ancestral
File. So, in the future, researchers will be able to tell exactly
where the unit obtained their information. That in itself is a big
improvement.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: http://www.royalancestry.net
Gordon Banks wrote:
across was that none of them had any research information to go with
them..."
into a file, let along all the extra detail for which you are looking.
typist a year I suspect. And then after that is finished, you lurk on
here and cut and paste responses and "fix" the data up as you go along.
will say something like "Medieval Research". I've stumbled acros this
now and then and I believe it means they are copying data out of actual
original documents, but I'm not sure.
DOCUMENT. Quite a different thing. In the Ancestral File they have
attempted to coalesce the various information about an individual, so
the entry for King Richard III of England can be counted on to be at
least mostly accurate whereas of course the entry for Martha Smith 1805
is only as good as the one or two people who submitted on that person.
There are probably a few hundred people who've submitted information on
King Richard III.
sources, I agree with Denis that for late Medieval Quebec 1600-1660,
Jette is the best, he gives sources on each family unit instead of just
lumping them all at the back of the book. I have used his information
to find some of the original documents, and in one case at least was
able to extend and correct what he had listed.
myself, who do attempt to give sources for certain facts and in some
cases full biographies. It's just hard to search through 300 entries
on Richard III, to find the "best" one. So for the famous I use
http://www.wikipedia.org and for the not-so-famous http://www.familysearch.org and
http://www.ancestry.com and of course this list.
The Medieval Families Unit was reactived about three years ago under
the direction of Mrs. Debbie Latimer. The reactivated unit has been
working on revising the medieval part of the Ancestral File for England
and other countries. They've already canvassed a lot of secondary
sources which are in print. At some point the unit plans to release a
revised edition of the Ancestral File. So far, there has been no
annoucement about a release date.
Based on my discussions with Mrs. Latimer, it is apparent that the
medieval part of the revised Ancestral File will be much superior to
the one currently in use. Among other things, I believe they plan to
include a list of sources for each family in the revised Ancestral
File. So, in the future, researchers will be able to tell exactly
where the unit obtained their information. That in itself is a big
improvement.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: http://www.royalancestry.net
Gordon Banks wrote:
I don't think Ancestral File is actively taking new submissions.
Perhaps Doug can comment since he is there often.
On Wed, 2005-02-23 at 20:27 -0500, WJhonson@aol.com wrote:
Tim wrote: "The last time I looked, at least a couple of years ago,
the problem I found with all the Charlemagne databases that I came
across was that none of them had any research information to go with
them..."
You are quite right Tim. Most people, once they hit a royal vein,
spend huge amounts of time just trying to enter all the NAMES and dates
into a file, let along all the extra detail for which you are looking.
I know I am as guilty as the next person of that. There are just
such a huge number of ancestors to enter. It can take a dedicated
typist a year I suspect. And then after that is finished, you lurk on
here and cut and paste responses and "fix" the data up as you go along.
One of the more useful sources is the http://www.familysearch.org Medieval
Research section. Sometimes when you look underneath an IGI entry it
will say something like "Medieval Research". I've stumbled acros this
now and then and I believe it means they are copying data out of actual
original documents, but I'm not sure.
At any rate the Ancestral File attempts to create just one single
entry for each individual. The IGI creates one entry for each
DOCUMENT. Quite a different thing. In the Ancestral File they have
attempted to coalesce the various information about an individual, so
the entry for King Richard III of England can be counted on to be at
least mostly accurate whereas of course the entry for Martha Smith 1805
is only as good as the one or two people who submitted on that person.
There are probably a few hundred people who've submitted information on
King Richard III.
SO just like http://www.wikipedia.com, the more submitters to the
Ancestral File, the better it is supposed to be getting. As for
sources, I agree with Denis that for late Medieval Quebec 1600-1660,
Jette is the best, he gives sources on each family unit instead of just
lumping them all at the back of the book. I have used his information
to find some of the original documents, and in one case at least was
able to extend and correct what he had listed.
Also, it's a painstaking exercise, but you WILL find on the
Ancestral World Tree (at http://www.ancestry.com) that there are people, like
myself, who do attempt to give sources for certain facts and in some
cases full biographies. It's just hard to search through 300 entries
on Richard III, to find the "best" one. So for the famous I use
http://www.wikipedia.org and for the not-so-famous http://www.familysearch.org and
http://www.ancestry.com and of course this list.
Will
--
Gordon Banks <geb@gordonbanks.com
-
D. Spencer Hines
Re: New Ancestral File
That is GREAT NEWS.
I was told the previous Medieval Families Unit was shut down by the LDS
because it was considered "too elitist" [thereby arousing dysfunctional
jealousies in some poor addle-pated folks] -- among other reasons --
including "finances" and "allocation of resources" -- two reasons often
used as cover-up excuses.
So this is welcome news indeed.
Thanks for posting this, Douglas.
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
<royalancestry@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1109294075.260071.101140@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Dear Gordon ~
|
| The Medieval Families Unit was reactived about three years ago under
| the direction of Mrs. Debbie Latimer. The reactivated unit has been
| working on revising the medieval part of the Ancestral File for
England
| and other countries. They've already canvassed a lot of secondary
| sources which are in print. At some point the unit plans to release a
| revised edition of the Ancestral File. So far, there has been no
| annoucement about a release date.
|
| Based on my discussions with Mrs. Latimer, it is apparent that the
| medieval part of the revised Ancestral File will be much superior to
| the one currently in use. Among other things, I believe they plan to
| include a list of sources for each family in the revised Ancestral
| File. So, in the future, researchers will be able to tell exactly
| where the unit obtained their information. That in itself is a big
| improvement.
|
| Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
|
| Website: http://www.royalancestry.net
|
|
| Gordon Banks wrote:
| > I don't think Ancestral File is actively taking new submissions.
| > Perhaps Doug can comment since he is there often.
| >
| > On Wed, 2005-02-23 at 20:27 -0500, WJhonson@aol.com wrote:
| > > Tim wrote: "The last time I looked, at least a couple of years
ago,
| the problem I found with all the Charlemagne databases that I came
| across was that none of them had any research information to go with
| them..."
| > >
| > > You are quite right Tim. Most people, once they hit a royal vein,
| spend huge amounts of time just trying to enter all the NAMES and
dates
| into a file, let along all the extra detail for which you are looking.
| > >
| > > I know I am as guilty as the next person of that. There are just
| such a huge number of ancestors to enter. It can take a dedicated
| typist a year I suspect. And then after that is finished, you lurk on
| here and cut and paste responses and "fix" the data up as you go
along.
| > >
| > > One of the more useful sources is the http://www.familysearch.org
Medieval
| Research section. Sometimes when you look underneath an IGI entry it
| will say something like "Medieval Research". I've stumbled acros this
| now and then and I believe it means they are copying data out of
actual
| original documents, but I'm not sure.
| > >
| > > At any rate the Ancestral File attempts to create just one single
| entry for each individual. The IGI creates one entry for each
| DOCUMENT. Quite a different thing. In the Ancestral File they have
| attempted to coalesce the various information about an individual, so
| the entry for King Richard III of England can be counted on to be at
| least mostly accurate whereas of course the entry for Martha Smith
1805
| is only as good as the one or two people who submitted on that person.
| There are probably a few hundred people who've submitted information
on
| King Richard III.
| > >
| > > SO just like http://www.wikipedia.com, the more submitters to the
| Ancestral File, the better it is supposed to be getting. As for
| sources, I agree with Denis that for late Medieval Quebec 1600-1660,
| Jette is the best, he gives sources on each family unit instead of
just
| lumping them all at the back of the book. I have used his information
| to find some of the original documents, and in one case at least was
| able to extend and correct what he had listed.
| > >
| > > Also, it's a painstaking exercise, but you WILL find on the
| Ancestral World Tree (at http://www.ancestry.com) that there are people, like
| myself, who do attempt to give sources for certain facts and in some
| cases full biographies. It's just hard to search through 300 entries
| on Richard III, to find the "best" one. So for the famous I use
| http://www.wikipedia.org and for the not-so-famous http://www.familysearch.org and
| http://www.ancestry.com and of course this list.
| > >
| > > Will
| > --
| > Gordon Banks <geb@gordonbanks.com>
I was told the previous Medieval Families Unit was shut down by the LDS
because it was considered "too elitist" [thereby arousing dysfunctional
jealousies in some poor addle-pated folks] -- among other reasons --
including "finances" and "allocation of resources" -- two reasons often
used as cover-up excuses.
So this is welcome news indeed.
Thanks for posting this, Douglas.
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
<royalancestry@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1109294075.260071.101140@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Dear Gordon ~
|
| The Medieval Families Unit was reactived about three years ago under
| the direction of Mrs. Debbie Latimer. The reactivated unit has been
| working on revising the medieval part of the Ancestral File for
England
| and other countries. They've already canvassed a lot of secondary
| sources which are in print. At some point the unit plans to release a
| revised edition of the Ancestral File. So far, there has been no
| annoucement about a release date.
|
| Based on my discussions with Mrs. Latimer, it is apparent that the
| medieval part of the revised Ancestral File will be much superior to
| the one currently in use. Among other things, I believe they plan to
| include a list of sources for each family in the revised Ancestral
| File. So, in the future, researchers will be able to tell exactly
| where the unit obtained their information. That in itself is a big
| improvement.
|
| Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
|
| Website: http://www.royalancestry.net
|
|
| Gordon Banks wrote:
| > I don't think Ancestral File is actively taking new submissions.
| > Perhaps Doug can comment since he is there often.
| >
| > On Wed, 2005-02-23 at 20:27 -0500, WJhonson@aol.com wrote:
| > > Tim wrote: "The last time I looked, at least a couple of years
ago,
| the problem I found with all the Charlemagne databases that I came
| across was that none of them had any research information to go with
| them..."
| > >
| > > You are quite right Tim. Most people, once they hit a royal vein,
| spend huge amounts of time just trying to enter all the NAMES and
dates
| into a file, let along all the extra detail for which you are looking.
| > >
| > > I know I am as guilty as the next person of that. There are just
| such a huge number of ancestors to enter. It can take a dedicated
| typist a year I suspect. And then after that is finished, you lurk on
| here and cut and paste responses and "fix" the data up as you go
along.
| > >
| > > One of the more useful sources is the http://www.familysearch.org
Medieval
| Research section. Sometimes when you look underneath an IGI entry it
| will say something like "Medieval Research". I've stumbled acros this
| now and then and I believe it means they are copying data out of
actual
| original documents, but I'm not sure.
| > >
| > > At any rate the Ancestral File attempts to create just one single
| entry for each individual. The IGI creates one entry for each
| DOCUMENT. Quite a different thing. In the Ancestral File they have
| attempted to coalesce the various information about an individual, so
| the entry for King Richard III of England can be counted on to be at
| least mostly accurate whereas of course the entry for Martha Smith
1805
| is only as good as the one or two people who submitted on that person.
| There are probably a few hundred people who've submitted information
on
| King Richard III.
| > >
| > > SO just like http://www.wikipedia.com, the more submitters to the
| Ancestral File, the better it is supposed to be getting. As for
| sources, I agree with Denis that for late Medieval Quebec 1600-1660,
| Jette is the best, he gives sources on each family unit instead of
just
| lumping them all at the back of the book. I have used his information
| to find some of the original documents, and in one case at least was
| able to extend and correct what he had listed.
| > >
| > > Also, it's a painstaking exercise, but you WILL find on the
| Ancestral World Tree (at http://www.ancestry.com) that there are people, like
| myself, who do attempt to give sources for certain facts and in some
| cases full biographies. It's just hard to search through 300 entries
| on Richard III, to find the "best" one. So for the famous I use
| http://www.wikipedia.org and for the not-so-famous http://www.familysearch.org and
| http://www.ancestry.com and of course this list.
| > >
| > > Will
| > --
| > Gordon Banks <geb@gordonbanks.com>
-
Todd A. Farmerie
Re: Descendants of Charlemagne
Gordon Banks wrote:
No, it is not. It has been superseded by the Pedigree Resource
File. The primary difference, for better or worse, is that each
submission is a stand-alone pedigree, with no opportunity to link
to or correct a prior submission (which also means others can't
'correct' yours). I not the Ancestry is now experimenting in the
opposite direction, linking pedigrees in WorldConnect into
OneWorldTree - I just saw one where two people with the same
name, born the same year, were linked, in spite of one being born
in Ohio, the other in Australia.
taf
I don't think Ancestral File is actively taking new submissions.
No, it is not. It has been superseded by the Pedigree Resource
File. The primary difference, for better or worse, is that each
submission is a stand-alone pedigree, with no opportunity to link
to or correct a prior submission (which also means others can't
'correct' yours). I not the Ancestry is now experimenting in the
opposite direction, linking pedigrees in WorldConnect into
OneWorldTree - I just saw one where two people with the same
name, born the same year, were linked, in spite of one being born
in Ohio, the other in Australia.
taf
-
Renia
Re: Descendants of Charlemagne
Todd A. Farmerie wrote:
Yup. In principle, I like the idea of OneWorldTree, but I've come across
a Graham girl in Britain and a Grimes in Germany who have been
transposed into the same person. So it's not working.
Users have the choice of adding info to people. I've had a go at this,
but unless you have your wits about you, you could get quite lost in the
creation. And without even knowing it, if you amilessly click buttons,
Bill Bloggs in Lancashire in 1780 could "become" Amy Smith in Nevada in
1922.
Renia
Gordon Banks wrote:
I don't think Ancestral File is actively taking new submissions.
No, it is not. It has been superseded by the Pedigree Resource File.
The primary difference, for better or worse, is that each submission is
a stand-alone pedigree, with no opportunity to link to or correct a
prior submission (which also means others can't 'correct' yours). I not
the Ancestry is now experimenting in the opposite direction, linking
pedigrees in WorldConnect into OneWorldTree - I just saw one where two
people with the same name, born the same year, were linked, in spite of
one being born in Ohio, the other in Australia.
Yup. In principle, I like the idea of OneWorldTree, but I've come across
a Graham girl in Britain and a Grimes in Germany who have been
transposed into the same person. So it's not working.
Users have the choice of adding info to people. I've had a go at this,
but unless you have your wits about you, you could get quite lost in the
creation. And without even knowing it, if you amilessly click buttons,
Bill Bloggs in Lancashire in 1780 could "become" Amy Smith in Nevada in
1922.
Renia
-
Gordon Banks
Re: New Ancestral File
The driving force in what the LDS Church does genealogically is rooted
in making sure temple ordinances are done for the dead. As I understand
it, the names of these medieval persons were being submitted by members
of the church over and over with differing names and differing family
structures, etc., and so the church wanted the unit in order to make
sure the temple work for these people who are the common ancestors of
millions of people was done in a more rational way. Members are told
not to submit names earlier than a certain date, and leave the work for
these medieval people to the Medieval Unit.
A vetted Medieval Ancestral File would be a great boon, even better than
the Henry Project, if it is done right, since it would contain many more
names. What a huge job though. I wonder how many people will be
working in this unit?
On Fri, 2005-02-25 at 02:39 +0000, D. Spencer Hines wrote:
Gordon Banks <geb@gordonbanks.com>
in making sure temple ordinances are done for the dead. As I understand
it, the names of these medieval persons were being submitted by members
of the church over and over with differing names and differing family
structures, etc., and so the church wanted the unit in order to make
sure the temple work for these people who are the common ancestors of
millions of people was done in a more rational way. Members are told
not to submit names earlier than a certain date, and leave the work for
these medieval people to the Medieval Unit.
A vetted Medieval Ancestral File would be a great boon, even better than
the Henry Project, if it is done right, since it would contain many more
names. What a huge job though. I wonder how many people will be
working in this unit?
On Fri, 2005-02-25 at 02:39 +0000, D. Spencer Hines wrote:
That is GREAT NEWS.
I was told the previous Medieval Families Unit was shut down by the LDS
because it was considered "too elitist" [thereby arousing dysfunctional
jealousies in some poor addle-pated folks] -- among other reasons --
including "finances" and "allocation of resources" -- two reasons often
used as cover-up excuses.
So this is welcome news indeed.
Thanks for posting this, Douglas.
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
royalancestry@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1109294075.260071.101140@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Dear Gordon ~
|
| The Medieval Families Unit was reactived about three years ago under
| the direction of Mrs. Debbie Latimer. The reactivated unit has been
| working on revising the medieval part of the Ancestral File for
England
| and other countries. They've already canvassed a lot of secondary
| sources which are in print. At some point the unit plans to release a
| revised edition of the Ancestral File. So far, there has been no
| annoucement about a release date.
|
| Based on my discussions with Mrs. Latimer, it is apparent that the
| medieval part of the revised Ancestral File will be much superior to
| the one currently in use. Among other things, I believe they plan to
| include a list of sources for each family in the revised Ancestral
| File. So, in the future, researchers will be able to tell exactly
| where the unit obtained their information. That in itself is a big
| improvement.
|
| Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
|
| Website: http://www.royalancestry.net
|
|
| Gordon Banks wrote:
| > I don't think Ancestral File is actively taking new submissions.
| > Perhaps Doug can comment since he is there often.
|
| > On Wed, 2005-02-23 at 20:27 -0500, WJhonson@aol.com wrote:
| > > Tim wrote: "The last time I looked, at least a couple of years
ago,
| the problem I found with all the Charlemagne databases that I came
| across was that none of them had any research information to go with
| them..."
|
| > > You are quite right Tim. Most people, once they hit a royal vein,
| spend huge amounts of time just trying to enter all the NAMES and
dates
| into a file, let along all the extra detail for which you are looking.
|
| > > I know I am as guilty as the next person of that. There are just
| such a huge number of ancestors to enter. It can take a dedicated
| typist a year I suspect. And then after that is finished, you lurk on
| here and cut and paste responses and "fix" the data up as you go
along.
|
| > > One of the more useful sources is the http://www.familysearch.org
Medieval
| Research section. Sometimes when you look underneath an IGI entry it
| will say something like "Medieval Research". I've stumbled acros this
| now and then and I believe it means they are copying data out of
actual
| original documents, but I'm not sure.
|
| > > At any rate the Ancestral File attempts to create just one single
| entry for each individual. The IGI creates one entry for each
| DOCUMENT. Quite a different thing. In the Ancestral File they have
| attempted to coalesce the various information about an individual, so
| the entry for King Richard III of England can be counted on to be at
| least mostly accurate whereas of course the entry for Martha Smith
1805
| is only as good as the one or two people who submitted on that person.
| There are probably a few hundred people who've submitted information
on
| King Richard III.
|
| > > SO just like http://www.wikipedia.com, the more submitters to the
| Ancestral File, the better it is supposed to be getting. As for
| sources, I agree with Denis that for late Medieval Quebec 1600-1660,
| Jette is the best, he gives sources on each family unit instead of
just
| lumping them all at the back of the book. I have used his information
| to find some of the original documents, and in one case at least was
| able to extend and correct what he had listed.
|
| > > Also, it's a painstaking exercise, but you WILL find on the
| Ancestral World Tree (at http://www.ancestry.com) that there are people, like
| myself, who do attempt to give sources for certain facts and in some
| cases full biographies. It's just hard to search through 300 entries
| on Richard III, to find the "best" one. So for the famous I use
| http://www.wikipedia.org and for the not-so-famous http://www.familysearch.org and
| http://www.ancestry.com and of course this list.
|
| > > Will
| > --
| > Gordon Banks <geb@gordonbanks.com
--
Gordon Banks <geb@gordonbanks.com>
-
Mark Harry
Re: New Ancestral File
"Douglas Richardson royalancestry@msn.com" <royalancestry@msn.com> wrote in message news:<1109294075.260071.101140@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>...
Good, I am glad to hear this.
I wrote to Salt Lake about 4-5 years ago, wanting to know their
sources for the pedigree of a medieval Devonshire family, as the dates
were quite obviously wrong in a multitude of places (sons born 3 years
after the father's date of death, and so forth) and while I got a
response, it was not very helpful.
In some cases it is apparent that where several differing versions of
a family pedigree exist, all the versions were put in without that
fact being made clear, making the result terribly confusing for
someone who did not have a prior knowledge of the issues around the
pedigree concerned.
Dear Gordon ~
Based on my discussions with Mrs. Latimer, it is apparent that the
medieval part of the revised Ancestral File will be much superior to
the one currently in use. Among other things, I believe they plan to
include a list of sources for each family in the revised Ancestral
File. So, in the future, researchers will be able to tell exactly
where the unit obtained their information.
Good, I am glad to hear this.
I wrote to Salt Lake about 4-5 years ago, wanting to know their
sources for the pedigree of a medieval Devonshire family, as the dates
were quite obviously wrong in a multitude of places (sons born 3 years
after the father's date of death, and so forth) and while I got a
response, it was not very helpful.
In some cases it is apparent that where several differing versions of
a family pedigree exist, all the versions were put in without that
fact being made clear, making the result terribly confusing for
someone who did not have a prior knowledge of the issues around the
pedigree concerned.