Louise Staley and Don Stone kindly explained how to browse the rootsweb
archive. Thanks to them both. I was able to trace a July 1988 posting by Kay Allen.
Beacause it is so highly relevant to the Warenne/Blanchminster connection, I
hope it is in order to reproduce the most relevant bits here, with all due
acknowledgements to Kay.
< Subject: Re: Warrens of Whitchurch and Ightfield
< Dear Paul and other interested parties,
< This is my interpretation based on Eyton's Antiquities of Shropshire
< (available on film from FHL);George Morris Collections (also available
< from the FHL); Pedigrees from the Plea Rolls, Genl. Wrottesley;Honors &
< Knights' Fees, Farrer, which still needs much more work(in plain words,
< this is NOT guaranteed to be the last, most accurate version, so
< please do not download and distribute):
<snip>
<
< 64. John Warren, living 1281. Chronology almost dictates that 16 and 64
< are identical. This John was born after 1271 as he was still a minor in
< 1292.
< 65. Audelia de Albo Monasterio. I doubt her existence.
<
< 128. Griffin Warren, living 1272, dead in 1286.
< 129. Isabel de Pulford, daughter of Robert and Emma de Pulford.
<
< 256. William de < Warren of Whitchurch, b. before 1219;d. after 1260.
<
< 512. William de Warren of Whitchurch, b. before 1200; d. ca. 1240.
<
< 1024. William FitzRandulf de Warren of Whitchurch, b. before 1133(?); d.
< about 1203.
< 1025. Emma
<
< 2048. Randulf de Warenne of Whitchurch.
<
< Any comments, corrections welcomed.
<
< Kay Allen
It occurs to me to be possible that the Randulf de Warenne of Whitchurch,
listed by Kay, may be the same man as the Sir Ranulf de Albo Ministerio, husband
of Lucy Toret, father of another Ranulf, and grandfather of Sir Reginald.
It is interesting that the work on Stratton in Cornwall by Frederick Bone, to
which Louise kindly referred me, shows the last Sir Ranulf as dying in 1348.
In Cal Pat Rot for the following year we find commissioners appointed to deal
with a complaint by John de Albo Monasterio that some wrongdoers had broken
into his park at Wyghale (CPR 1349, Nov 24). Bone gives Wighall as a Toret
estate in Yorkshire, inherited by Lucy as heir of her brother Bartholemew, and
then descending to the Blanchminsters. Does anybody know whether there is an IPM
for the last Sir Ranulf, or for any of his ancestors? If there is, we may be
able to find how this John inherited Wighall.
Strangely, I can find no references on a2a to this estate. But the PRO has at
STAC2/20/138 a record of one Christopher Stapilton as owner of the park in
C16.
Another is that the online history of Morton Corbet castle in Shropshire
suggests that the same Bartholemew Toret's heir was not his siter Lucy, but his
daughter Joan:-
"Toret and his probable son, Toret Wroxeter, were Englishmen and it would
seem likely that they were responsible for building the square tower keep which
still dominates the castle site. Before 1170 Peter Toret married Lucy Haget
and in her right became a powerful baron in Yorkshire. By the reign of King
John his son Bartholomew Toret had become a member of the powerful
anti-Plantagenet grouping called 'The Northerners'. In 1215 they compelled King John to
sign the Magna Carta and when this failed moved a rebellion against the king.
Moreton Corbet castle was one of those places which were garrisoned against
John. In February 1216 Earl William Marshall of <A HREF="http://66.102.9.104/hereford.html">Goodrich castle</A>, who at the time
was residing at Shrewsbury, was ordered by the king to storm Moreton Corbet.
This he duly did and a royalist garrison was placed within the fortress. By
1217 Bartholomew Toret and his friend and ally Robert Corbet of Wattlesborough
castle abandoned the cause of the rebels and returned allegiance to King
John's son, Henry III. Bartholomew Toret died in 1235, leaving Moreton Corbet
castle to his daughter, Joan, and Robert Corbet."
--see http://www.castles99.ukprint.com/Essays/moreton.html.
It seems to get more difficult, rather than easier.
Thanks to all thos who are helping
MM
Re Blanchminsters
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Louise Staley
Re: Re Blanchminsters
In case anyone wants to splash out on sources for this line, Ivor Cornish
of Ambra books has replied to a query of mine to say he has:
1. Goulding (R.W), Compiled by RECORDS OF THE CHARITY KNOWN AS
BLANCHMINSTER'S CHARITY. In the Parish of Stratton, County of Cornwall,
until the year 1832. With introduction and notes on the families of Turet,
Blanchminster, Hiwis and Colshull. 63 + 122pp, original cloth, rubbed to
edges, ownership inscription on front endpaper, and name to top margin of
preliminary leaf, small portions missing from foot of front endpaper and
half-title. Louth: J.W. Goulding & Son. Stratton and Bude: J.T. Perry.
1898. £70.00
2. Lawrance (W.T) PARLIAMENTARY REPRESENTATION OF CORNWALL, Being a
Record of the Electoral Divisions and Boroughs of the County from 1295 to
1885, together with copies of the Roll of Parliamentary Members during the
period above named, some Biographical Notes, and a chapter on the Pitt
Family and Cornish Elections. With 9 plates, 332pp, original cloth, few
small spots to rear board, small ownership stamp to front endpaper and
title. Netherton and Worth, Truro: c.192- £95.00
If anyone is interested Ivor can be contacted ambra@localhistory.co.uk
regards
Louise
P.S. I have no commercial relationship with Ambra books.
--
Quod dixi dixi
of Ambra books has replied to a query of mine to say he has:
1. Goulding (R.W), Compiled by RECORDS OF THE CHARITY KNOWN AS
BLANCHMINSTER'S CHARITY. In the Parish of Stratton, County of Cornwall,
until the year 1832. With introduction and notes on the families of Turet,
Blanchminster, Hiwis and Colshull. 63 + 122pp, original cloth, rubbed to
edges, ownership inscription on front endpaper, and name to top margin of
preliminary leaf, small portions missing from foot of front endpaper and
half-title. Louth: J.W. Goulding & Son. Stratton and Bude: J.T. Perry.
1898. £70.00
2. Lawrance (W.T) PARLIAMENTARY REPRESENTATION OF CORNWALL, Being a
Record of the Electoral Divisions and Boroughs of the County from 1295 to
1885, together with copies of the Roll of Parliamentary Members during the
period above named, some Biographical Notes, and a chapter on the Pitt
Family and Cornish Elections. With 9 plates, 332pp, original cloth, few
small spots to rear board, small ownership stamp to front endpaper and
title. Netherton and Worth, Truro: c.192- £95.00
If anyone is interested Ivor can be contacted ambra@localhistory.co.uk
regards
Louise
P.S. I have no commercial relationship with Ambra books.
--
Quod dixi dixi
-
Louise Staley
Re: Re Blanchminsters
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005, <Millerfairfield@aol.com> wrote:
snip
2048. Randulf de Warenne of Whitchurch.
Any comments, corrections welcomed.
Kay Allen
It occurs to me to be possible that the Randulf de Warenne of Whitchurch,
listed by Kay, may be the same man as the Sir Ranulf de Albo Ministerio,
husband
of Lucy Toret, father of another Ranulf, and grandfather of Sir Reginald.
snip
I think Lucy Turet's husband may have been a Reginald rather than a
Randulf/Ranulf/Ralph.
A Guide to the Manors of Devon
compiled by Ian Mortimer, B.A. M.A. F.R.Hist.S.
Godford* [Status: a], or Codaford, in Awliscombe parish and Hemyock
hundred (EPNS, p608). Reichel refers to this manor as Codaford (OJR, Supp,
p44). It probably appears in DB as Horescome, held by William Chievre in
demesne (DB 19,32). In 1242 Reginald de Albo Monasterio held an eighth of
a fee in Godeford of the honor of Bradninch (Fees, p792). This eighth of a
fee was held by Richard Clifford from the Earl of Cornwall in 1284 and by
Reginald de Clifford in 1303 (FA, pp338, 367). In 1346 Roger de Prideaux
held it of the honor of Bradninch (FA, p430). Lysons states incorrectly
that it was in the possession of Dunkeswell Abbey but then correctly
states that it was owned succesively by the Clifford, Prideaux, St Aubyn,
Bonneville and Fulford families. The Fulford family sold it to Richard
Cross Esq, but it was dismembered before 1822 (Lysons, p20). White does
not mention it in 1850.
http://www.mortimer.co.uk/manors/
The Bone book makes Sir Ralph de Albo Monasterio Lucy's Turet's son; "In a
Halegh Park charter dated 1254 Sir Ralph de Albo Monasterio is stated to
be Lucy Turet's son and heir." That book doesn't given the name of Lucy's
husband but the reference above suggests it might have been Reginald.
Louise
--
Quod dixi dixi
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Louise Staley
Re: Re Blanchminsters
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005, <Millerfairfield@aol.com> wrote:
snip
It is interesting that the work on Stratton in Cornwall by Frederick
Bone, to which Louise kindly referred me, shows the last Sir Ranulf
as dying in 1348.
In Cal Pat Rot for the following year we find commissioners appointed to
deal with a complaint by John de Albo Monasterio that some wrongdoers
had broken into his park at Wyghale (CPR 1349, Nov 24). Bone gives
Wighall
as a Toret estate in Yorkshire, inherited by Lucy as heir of her brother
Bartholemew, and then descending to the Blanchminsters. Does anybody know
whether there is an IPM for the last Sir Ranulf, or for any of his
ancestors? If there is, we may be able to find how this John inherited
Wighall.
snip
I don't know if there are IPMs (I seem to remember there aren't) but Sir
John Blancminster was the son of the last Sir Ralph. He died s.p and his
heir was his brother Guy Blancminster Rector of Lansalos who died s.p.
after 1393. Guy's heirs were his aunts Alice Blancminster, wife of Sir
Richard Hewis and (possbily) Cecilia Blancminster wife of Thomas Neville.
regards
Louise
--
Quod dixi dixi