Is there a general consensus as to the best source for Polish genealogy?
I'm trying to figure out where to place Adelajda/Adelheid, wife of Michael
of Hungary. Most sources I've checked seem to say she's the daughter of
Mieszko I although a couple say she's his sister. Then I can't find much
agreement as to which of Mieszko's wives is her mother, some say an unnamed
first wife, others say Oda and still others have her as the wife of Dubrawka
of Bohemia. Than another source gives her no parents at all and calls her
Adela. Since she's in my direct line, I'd like to have as accurate an
account as I can. Any opinions? Thanks.
Pam
Polish Nobility
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Arkadiusz Bugaj
Re: Polish Nobility
U¿ytkownik "Pam" <pam@nospam.com> napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
news:7wOPd.35836$y83.30671@fe37.usenetserver.com...
By contemporary historigraphy, Adelheid, an alleged Mieszko I sister, is
believed to be a totally fictious figure.
The sources calling her a and a sister of Mieszko and wife of king Geiza (of
Hungary) thus St. Stephen mother, are late and unreliable. Oswald Balzer
(Genealogia Piastów, Kraków 1895, s. 29-34) thought she was a daughter of
Siemomysl, identifying her with Beleknegini (White princess) mentioned in
Thietmar's chronicle. This view was overturned by K. Jasiñski (Bela Knegini,
S³ownik Staro¿ytno¶ci S³owiañskich, t. 7 1986, cz. 2, s.129 and Idem,
Rodowód pierwszych Piastów, Warszawa-Wroc³aw 1993), who identified
Beleknegini with Sarolta, actual wife of Geiza.
Arkadiusz
news:7wOPd.35836$y83.30671@fe37.usenetserver.com...
Is there a general consensus as to the best source for Polish genealogy?
I'm trying to figure out where to place Adelajda/Adelheid, wife of Michael
of Hungary. Most sources I've checked seem to say she's the daughter of
Mieszko I although a couple say she's his sister. Then I can't find much
agreement as to which of Mieszko's wives is her mother, some say an
unnamed first wife, others say Oda and still others have her as the wife
of Dubrawka of Bohemia. Than another source gives her no parents at all
and calls her Adela. Since she's in my direct line, I'd like to have as
accurate an account as I can. Any opinions? Thanks.
Pam
By contemporary historigraphy, Adelheid, an alleged Mieszko I sister, is
believed to be a totally fictious figure.
The sources calling her a and a sister of Mieszko and wife of king Geiza (of
Hungary) thus St. Stephen mother, are late and unreliable. Oswald Balzer
(Genealogia Piastów, Kraków 1895, s. 29-34) thought she was a daughter of
Siemomysl, identifying her with Beleknegini (White princess) mentioned in
Thietmar's chronicle. This view was overturned by K. Jasiñski (Bela Knegini,
S³ownik Staro¿ytno¶ci S³owiañskich, t. 7 1986, cz. 2, s.129 and Idem,
Rodowód pierwszych Piastów, Warszawa-Wroc³aw 1993), who identified
Beleknegini with Sarolta, actual wife of Geiza.
Arkadiusz
-
Pam
Re: Polish Nobility
By contemporary historigraphy, Adelheid, an alleged Mieszko I sister, is
believed to be a totally fictious figure.
The sources calling her a and a sister of Mieszko and wife of king Geiza
(of Hungary) thus St. Stephen mother, are late and unreliable. Oswald
Balzer (Genealogia Piastów, Kraków 1895, s. 29-34) thought she was a
daughter of Siemomysl, identifying her with Beleknegini (White princess)
mentioned in Thietmar's chronicle. This view was overturned by K. Jasiñski
(Bela Knegini, S³ownik Staro¿ytno¶ci S³owiañskich, t. 7 1986, cz. 2, s.129
and Idem, Rodowód pierwszych Piastów, Warszawa-Wroc³aw 1993), who
identified Beleknegini with Sarolta, actual wife of Geiza.
Arkadiusz
Thank you. I am obviously looking at the wrong sources. I'm new to all
this so trying to figure out what is reliable and what it now is certainly a
challenge. Thanks again.
Pam
-
Arkadiusz Bugaj
Re: Polish Nobility
U¿ytkownik "Pam" <pam@nospam.com> napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
news:cuIRd.3035$Bo3.2929@fe37.usenetserver.com...
You are welcome. But note that the literature (secondary sources), I gave
you hints, are written in Polish. There are also in Hugarian. I think, it
can be difficult for you to elicit information from it. You seem to be left
with analyse priamary sources. A tough job, not only for a newbee.
Cheers
Arkadiusz
news:cuIRd.3035$Bo3.2929@fe37.usenetserver.com...
By contemporary historigraphy, Adelheid, an alleged Mieszko I sister, is
believed to be a totally fictious figure.
The sources calling her a and a sister of Mieszko and wife of king Geiza
(of Hungary) thus St. Stephen mother, are late and unreliable. Oswald
Balzer (Genealogia Piastów, Kraków 1895, s. 29-34) thought she was a
daughter of Siemomysl, identifying her with Beleknegini (White princess)
mentioned in Thietmar's chronicle. This view was overturned by K.
Jasiñski (Bela Knegini, S³ownik Staro¿ytno¶ci S³owiañskich, t. 7 1986,
cz. 2, s.129 and Idem, Rodowód pierwszych Piastów, Warszawa-Wroc³aw
1993), who identified Beleknegini with Sarolta, actual wife of Geiza.
Arkadiusz
Thank you. I am obviously looking at the wrong sources. I'm new to all
this so trying to figure out what is reliable and what it now is certainly
a challenge. Thanks again.
Pam
You are welcome. But note that the literature (secondary sources), I gave
you hints, are written in Polish. There are also in Hugarian. I think, it
can be difficult for you to elicit information from it. You seem to be left
with analyse priamary sources. A tough job, not only for a newbee.
Cheers
Arkadiusz
-
Andrew S. Kalinkin
Re: Polish Nobility
Arkadiusz Bugaj wrote:
How Jasinski explain Slavic name Beleknegini for Hungarian Sarolta ?
And what was the source for the often repeated claim that Adelheid
before her marriage to Geiza was married to his brother Michael and was
the mother of Laszlo the Bald and Vazul the Blind ? This claim wasn't
yet known to Balzer, who doesn't even mention Michael in the chapter
dedicated to Adelheid.
Andrew
By contemporary historigraphy, Adelheid, an alleged Mieszko I sister,
is
believed to be a totally fictious figure.
The sources calling her a and a sister of Mieszko and wife of king
Geiza (of
Hungary) thus St. Stephen mother, are late and unreliable. Oswald
Balzer
(Genealogia Piastów, Kraków 1895, s. 29-34) thought she was a
daughter of
Siemomysl, identifying her with Beleknegini (White princess)
mentioned in
Thietmar's chronicle. This view was overturned by K. Jasiñski (Bela
Knegini,
S³ownik Staro¿ytno¶ci S³owiañskich, t. 7 1986, cz. 2, s.129 and
Idem,
Rodowód pierwszych Piastów, Warszawa-Wroc³aw 1993), who identified
Beleknegini with Sarolta, actual wife of Geiza.
How Jasinski explain Slavic name Beleknegini for Hungarian Sarolta ?
And what was the source for the often repeated claim that Adelheid
before her marriage to Geiza was married to his brother Michael and was
the mother of Laszlo the Bald and Vazul the Blind ? This claim wasn't
yet known to Balzer, who doesn't even mention Michael in the chapter
dedicated to Adelheid.
Andrew
-
Arkadiusz Bugaj
Re: Polish Nobility
Uzytkownik "Andrew S. Kalinkin" <kalinkin_andrei@mail.ru> napisal w
wiadomosci news:1108980910.300098.210090@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Arkadiusz Bugaj wrote:
How Jasinski explain Slavic name Beleknegini for Hungarian Sarolta ?
I am sorry for staying in silence for so long, but I didn't have access to
any reliable sources to quote.
Jasinski, follows in this respect a view of Gerard Labuda, who also claims
that Sarolta was the only one Geiza's wife. Jasinski in Beleknegini's short
biography, published in mentioned Slownik Starozytnosci Slowianskich, is
quoting Labuda's explanation that Sarolta in Turkish meant white-weasel
(sar-oltu). Beleknegini can thusly be a tranlation of this name used by
subjects of Hungarian kings. Itis also believed that iw was justa nickname
not a proper name. It is believed that Sarolta was a daughter of Gyula (i.e.
prince-duke) of Sevenborough (Siebenburg). It is confirmed at year 1003 in
by Annales Hildesheimenses, Hannovereae 1878, s. 29.
I don't have no knowledge in respect of this. I think you should check S. de
Vajay, Grossfurst Geysa von Ungarn. Familie und Verwandschaft,
Suedostforschungen, 21, 1962. I remember he provides rich literature so he
can be useful as a guide book to track certain views. Nota bene Vajay is a
proponent of opinion that Geiza was married twice: to Sarolta and Adelheid,
but he is isolated in this opinion.
Arkadiusz
wiadomosci news:1108980910.300098.210090@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Arkadiusz Bugaj wrote:
By contemporary historigraphy, Adelheid, an alleged Mieszko I sister,
is
believed to be a totally fictious figure.
The sources calling her a and a sister of Mieszko and wife of king
Geiza (of
Hungary) thus St. Stephen mother, are late and unreliable. Oswald
Balzer
(Genealogia Piastów, Kraków 1895, s. 29-34) thought she was a
daughter of
Siemomysl, identifying her with Beleknegini (White princess)
mentioned in
Thietmar's chronicle. This view was overturned by K. Jasiñski (Bela
Knegini,
S³ownik Staro¿ytno¶ci S³owiañskich, t. 7 1986, cz. 2, s.129 and
Idem,
Rodowód pierwszych Piastów, Warszawa-Wroc³aw 1993), who identified
Beleknegini with Sarolta, actual wife of Geiza.
How Jasinski explain Slavic name Beleknegini for Hungarian Sarolta ?
I am sorry for staying in silence for so long, but I didn't have access to
any reliable sources to quote.
Jasinski, follows in this respect a view of Gerard Labuda, who also claims
that Sarolta was the only one Geiza's wife. Jasinski in Beleknegini's short
biography, published in mentioned Slownik Starozytnosci Slowianskich, is
quoting Labuda's explanation that Sarolta in Turkish meant white-weasel
(sar-oltu). Beleknegini can thusly be a tranlation of this name used by
subjects of Hungarian kings. Itis also believed that iw was justa nickname
not a proper name. It is believed that Sarolta was a daughter of Gyula (i.e.
prince-duke) of Sevenborough (Siebenburg). It is confirmed at year 1003 in
by Annales Hildesheimenses, Hannovereae 1878, s. 29.
And what was the source for the often repeated claim that Adelheid
before her marriage to Geiza was married to his brother Michael and was
the mother of Laszlo the Bald and Vazul the Blind ? This claim wasn't
yet known to Balzer, who doesn't even mention Michael in the chapter
dedicated to Adelheid.
I don't have no knowledge in respect of this. I think you should check S. de
Vajay, Grossfurst Geysa von Ungarn. Familie und Verwandschaft,
Suedostforschungen, 21, 1962. I remember he provides rich literature so he
can be useful as a guide book to track certain views. Nota bene Vajay is a
proponent of opinion that Geiza was married twice: to Sarolta and Adelheid,
but he is isolated in this opinion.
Arkadiusz