Dispensation for Marriage of King Fernando III of Castile an

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
Douglas Richardson royala

Dispensation for Marriage of King Fernando III of Castile an

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson royala » 12 feb 2005 20:21:11

Dear Peter ~

Thank you for checking Brunel. Much appreciated.

I presume that the source for the 1237 dispensation for the marriage of
Fernando III, King of Castile, and Jeanne de Dammartin is the registers
of Pope Gregory IX. The specific citation for that source again is as
follows:

L. Auvray, Les registres de Gregoire IX, no. 3847.

This source is not available to me here locally. If anyone has access
to it, I'd appreciate it greatly if they would post an abstract of the
dispensation here on the newsgroup. As I stated earlier, the
dispensation is reportedly dated 31 August 1237.

With respect to your question regarding the marriage date of King
Fernando and his wife, Joan, it appears that Fernando and Jeanne were
married sometime before 31 October 1237 (as per Fernando III's letter
to King Louis IX of France) [Reference: E. Prarond, ed., Le cartulaire
du comté de Ponthieu (1898), no. 125].

Thank you again Peter for your assistance and cordial reply.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net


Peter Stewart wrote:
royalancestry@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1108149007.111804.239750@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

snip

Recently I learned that a dispensation was in fact granted for the
marriage of King Fernando and Jeanne de Dammartin. The
dispensation is dated 31 August 1237. It reportedly can be
found in two sources:

Brunel, Recueil des actes des comtes de Ponthieu, 1026-1279
(1930), no.304.

This reference is wrong - no. 304 in Brunel's edition (which by the
way
spells the name "Pontieu") is a charter of Jeanne's parents, from
August
1237 but with no day stated. This refers to the request of their
eldest
daughter Jeanne, "queen of Spain and Castille" (regine Yspanie et
Castelle),
and doesn't mention her husband or any relationship between them.

All this could prove is that the marriage of Jeanne to Fernando had
already
taken place before the date range of 2 September/31 October given in
many
genealogies, and some months "prior to 20 November" as given by
Szabolcs de
Vajay in 'From Alfonso VII to Alfonso X: the First Two Centuries of
the
Burgundian Dynasty in Castile and Leon--a Prosopographical Catalogue
in
Social Genealogy, 1100-1300', _Studies in Genealogy and Family
History in
Tribute to Charles Evans on the Occasion of his Eightieth Birthday_,
(Salt
Lake City, 1989) on p. 381, no. 40.

Peter Stewart


Douglas Richardson royalancestry@msn.com wrote:
Dear Newsgroup ~

Some time ago, I posted a pedigree of the ancestry of Queen Eleanor
of
Castile's mother, Jeanne de Dammartin, taken from Spanish sources
showing Jeanne's descent from the Castilian royal family by way of
her
maternal grandmother, Alice of France (see copy of earlier post
below).
The descent as outlined in the Spanish source suggests that a
dispensation would have been required for the marriage of Eleanor of
Castile's parents, King Fernando and Jeanne. For if Jeanne had the
Castilian descent as stated, then Fernando and Jeanne would have been
related in the 3rd and 4th degrees of consanguinity by virtue of
common
descent from King Alfonso VII of Castile. This is too close for them
to have married without a dispensation.

Recently I learned that a dispensation was in fact granted for the
marriage of King Fernando and Jeanne de Dammartin. The dispensation
is
dated 31 August 1237. It reportedly can be found in two sources:

Brunel, Recueil des actes des comtes de Ponthieu, 1026-1279 (1930),
no.
304.

L. Auvray, Les registres de Gregoire IX, no. 3847.

I don't know the degrees of consanguinity which are stated in the
1237
dispensation, but if it is 3rd and 4th, then based on other evidence
assembled by me and others, I think this would be conclusive evidence
that Jeanne de Dammartin's grandmother, Alice of France, was the
daughter of Constance of Castile, which Constance was the daughter of
King Alfonso VII of Castile.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net


+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
COPY OF EARLIER POST:

Douglas Richardson wrote:
Dear Newsgroup ~

Below is another record which gives evidence of the identity of the
mother of Alice of France as Constance of Castile. This record is
taken from the Spanish source "Roderico Toletani Archiepiscopi"
which
is found in the series, Recueil des Historiens des Gaules et de la
France, vol. 12 (1877), edited by
Léopold Delisle, pg. 383. It is available on the gallica website
at:

http://gallica.bnf.fr/.

This account concerns the Spanish ancestry of Jeanne de Dammartin,
2nd
wife of Fernando III, King of Castile and Leon, which Jeanne was
the
mother of Eleanor of Castile, wife of King Edward I of England. It
traces Jeanne's descent from King Alfonso VII, through her
grandmother, Alice of France.

Jeanne and Fernando were married in 1237, and I assume this record
dates from about this time period. The modern editor indicates in
a
footnote that Archbishop Roderico was in office from 1208 to 1247.
This record suggests that the Archbishop was fully aware that
Fernando
and Jeanne were related to one another within the forbidden
degrees.
Whether or not Fernando and Jeanne obtained a dispensation to marry
has yet to be established.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

E-mail: royalancestry@msn.com

- - - - - - - -

Source: Ex Roderico Toletani Archiepiscopi de Rebus Hispaniae
Libris
IX

pg. 383 Libro Septimo

"Nunc as gesta Aldefonsi (VII.) Hispaniarum Regis, prout coepimus,
revertamur ... Habuit autem duas uxores, Berengariam atque Richam;
ex
Berengaria genuit Sancium et Fernandum, Elisabeth et Beatiam.
Elisabeth nupsit Ludovico (VII.) Regi Francorum, ex qua genuit
filiam
quae dicta fuit Adeladis, et fuit uxor Comitis de Pontivo; et illa
Comitissa genuit Mariam, quae fuit mater Joannae Reginae Castellae
et
Legionis."

The modern editor, Monsieur Delisle, added the following
information in a footnote regarding "Elisabeth" named in this
document: "Vulgatius dictam apud Gallos Constantiam." I believe
this mean that Elisabeth was commonly called Constance in France.

Peter Stewart

Re: Dispensation for Marriage of King Fernando III of Castil

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 12 feb 2005 23:39:57

<royalancestry@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1108236071.014150.313110@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

<snip>

With respect to your question regarding the marriage date of King
Fernando and his wife, Joan, it appears that Fernando and Jeanne
were married sometime before 31 October 1237 (as per Fernando
III's letter to King Louis IX of France) [Reference: E. Prarond,
ed., Le cartulaire du comté de Ponthieu (1898), no. 125].

The charter of Jeanne's parents dated August 1237 and calling her queen ("ad
instantiam et petitionem dilectissime primogenite nostre Johanne, Dei gratia
regine Yspanie et Castelle" is also given in the cartulary edited by
Prarond, p. 169 no. 122. The original is lost and it is known from 15th- and
18th- century copies. However, the dating appears secure enough from scribal
error as the essential elements are written out: "Actum ano Domini MoCCoXXXo
septimo, mense augusto". This suggests that some time had elapsed after the
wedding, to allow for Jeanne as queen to have made a request that reached
her parents in France before the end of August, unless perhaps she had left
this behind on going to Spain and the exact date of the ceremony there
wasn't known in Ponthieu.

The papal dispensation is apparently dated 31 August. I haven't seen this or
the evidence that Jeanne and Fernando were not married until after 2
September, which is deduced from a privilege granted by him on that date and
not mentioning a queen.

If these documents are as securely dated as the charter appears to be,
someone somewhere must have jumped a gun.

Peter Stewart

Svar

Gå tilbake til «soc.genealogy.medieval»