Update : Ancestry of Herve IV (V) de Leon (for R. LeBlanc)

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jean bunot

Update : Ancestry of Herve IV (V) de Leon (for R. LeBlanc)

Legg inn av jean bunot » 09 feb 2005 23:06:34

During my exchanges with Roger LeBlanc concerning the immediate
ancestry of Herve IV, vicomte de Leon, seigneur en partie de
Chateauneuf-en-Thymerais et de Senonches, we discussed the possibility
that the Chateauneuf inheritance involved a descent from the capetian
house of Dreux (Roger LeBlanc). Specifically Roger LeBlanc proposed
that the unnamed heiress of Chateauneuf was in fact a Marguerite and
that she was d/o Hugues, seigneur de Chateauneuf et Senonches and his
only known wife, Eleonore de Dreux. I was then rather skeptic since
not much was actually known about that heiress. It got me curious and
I contacted a French local group of Historians specialized in the
Senonches/Thimerais area (Groupe d'Histoire locale du Perche
Senonchois). I wrote and asked them if they had any other informations
concerning the actual family history of the successive seigneurs de
Chateauneuf and the transmission of this fief to the vicomtes de Leon.
I just got an interesting reply from Monsieur Paul Alexandre,
historian, head of the above mentioned group. From the start, he
informed me that this medieval family was never the object of a formal
study. Never the less, he shared with me the following (without French
accents) :

"Nous connaissons l'existence de la famille de Leon, en tant que
branche heritiere, par Marguerite, des seigneurs de
Chateauneuf-en-Thimerais (...). Marguerite, fille de Hugues IV de
Chateauneuf et de sa femme Eleonore de Dreux, s'est en effet mariee a
Herve III de Leon; leur fils Herve IV de Leon cedera les domaines du
Thimerais par echange avec le roi Philippe III le Hardi en 1281,
domaines qui passeront a la famille de Valois en 1290" (my translation
: We know the existence of the Leon family, as heirs, through
Marguerite, of the seigneurs of Chateauneuf-en-Thimerais (...).
Marguerite, daughter of Hugues IV de Chateauneuf and his wife Eleonore
de Dreux, did indeed marry Herve III de Leon; Their son Herve IV
abandoned his Thimerais estates to king Philippe III le Hardi by
exchange in 1281, those estates eventually passing to the Valois
family in 1290).

Several comments :

a) Local historians uphold the Dreux-Chateauneuf-Leon theory mentioned
by Roger LeBlanc;

b)The Chateauneuf heiress spouse of Herve de Leon was indeed named
Marguerite;

c) She was d/o Eleonore de Dreux (+ 1248), herself d/o Robert II le
Jeune, comte de Dreux et de Braine (1154-1218), grandson of king Louis
VI le Gros, and Yolande de Coucy (+ 1222). According to ES, Eleonore
de Dreux m. (1) c. 1212, Hugues de Chateauneuf (+ 1229); m. (2) after
1229, Robert de Saint-Clair (+ c. 1248);

d) *If* Guy Le Bouteiller, spouse of Catherine de Gavre d'Escornaix,
is really, as I propose, maternally descended from the Breaute and
therefore the Leon family, he has two royal lines of descent from the
capetian houses of Dreux and Courtenay.

Jean Bunot

Gjest

Re: Update : Ancestry of Herve IV (V) de Leon (for R. LeBlan

Legg inn av Gjest » 10 feb 2005 00:01:03

"a) Local historians uphold the Dreux-Chateauneuf-Leon theory mentioned by Roger LeBlanc;

b)The Chateauneuf heiress spouse of Herve de Leon was indeed named Marguerite;"

What contemporary record shows this connection? Although your source may be absolutely unimpeachable, I don't think a modern local historian's "word" is the best source for a fact of that magnitude.
Will Johnson

JBunot

Re: Re: Update : Ancestry of Herve IV (V) de Leon (for R. Le

Legg inn av JBunot » 10 feb 2005 03:48:26

Thank you for kindly sharing your opinion. Very much looking foreward to
your next genealogical contribution to this forum. Jean Bunot

Roger LeBlanc

Re: Update : Ancestry of Herve IV (V) de Leon (for R. LeBlan

Legg inn av Roger LeBlanc » 10 feb 2005 19:01:02

Thank you for the update on your research Jean. I am very pleased to see
that you have stuck with this line, on which there seems to be little
information available. Sadly, I have nothing to add at the present time.

Roger LeBlanc

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