The Queen of England is equivalent to the pope

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Maaxx

The Queen of England is equivalent to the pope

Legg inn av Maaxx » 08 feb 2005 00:07:39

The Queen is equivalent to the pope due to her ancestor, Henry VIII,
in her power over the Church Of England and is a holy and just person
and should be worshipped by the British depite ordering Diana to be
killed by MI5 for consorting with a muslim.

Chris Phillips

Re: The Queen of England is equivalent to the pope

Legg inn av Chris Phillips » 08 feb 2005 00:16:26

Maaxx wrote:
The Queen is equivalent to the pope due to her ancestor, Henry VIII,
in her power over the Church Of England and is a holy and just person
and should be worshipped by the British depite ordering Diana to be
killed by MI5 for consorting with a muslim.


As far as I know, Henry VIII is not an ancestor of the Queen (or probably of
anyone else - at least as far as verifiable lines of descent go).

Chris Phillips

PS Of course, there are other errors in your message, but this is the only
one that's on-topic.

Gjest

Re: The Queen of England is equivalent to the pope

Legg inn av Gjest » 08 feb 2005 01:51:01

In a message dated 2/7/2005 6:15:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
maaxx@xrs.net writes:

The Queen is equivalent to the pope due to her ancestor, Henry VIII,
in her power over the Church Of England and is a holy and just person
and should be worshipped by the British depite ordering Diana to be
killed by MI5 for consorting with a muslim.




Unbelievable, simply unbelievable that someone would write such. And how do
you feel about the picture of Jesus in the frying pan?

Gordon Hale
Grand Prairie, Texas

William Earl Haskell

Re: The Queen of England is equivalent to the pope

Legg inn av William Earl Haskell » 08 feb 2005 06:41:03

GRHaleJr@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 2/7/2005 6:15:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
maaxx@xrs.net writes:

The Queen is equivalent to the pope due to her ancestor, Henry VIII,
in her power over the Church Of England and is a holy and just person
and should be worshipped by the British depite ordering Diana to be
killed by MI5 for consorting with a muslim.

Unless there's some line of descent by way of his (alleged?) natural son,
he's only Lizzie's Uncle Harry some distance removed.

Unbelievable, simply unbelievable that someone would write such. And how
do you feel about the picture of Jesus in the frying pan?

Hungry?

Gjest

Re: The Queen of England is equivalent to the pope

Legg inn av Gjest » 08 feb 2005 11:00:10

Ahem! It seems painstakingly obvious. The popes official crown is a three
tiered one, ergo he is above all temporal suzerains as they only wear one tier.
The format for instance, when he visits England, is that as a 'lay' monarch
he outranks the Queen - she therefore genuflects before him. It would be the
same for the Holy Roman Emperor, He outranks him.

This was patiently explained to me by Anthony Wagner many years ago.

regards
Peter ( de loriol)

Gjest

Re: The Queen of England is equivalent to the pope

Legg inn av Gjest » 08 feb 2005 20:01:02

In a message dated 2/8/2005 4:52:19 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
PDeloriol@aol.com writes:

The format for instance, when he visits England, is that as a 'lay' monarch
he outranks the Queen - she therefore genuflects before him. It would be
the
same for the Holy Roman Emperor, He outranks him.




I can only dispute this logically, since I did not know the gentleman cited
as your source.

The ruling monarch of the British Empire is also the head of the English
(Anglican) church, is he/she not. Why would the head of the Catholic Church
have seniority over the head of the Anglican Church?

I thought this had been determined when Henry VIII set up the Anglican
church in opposition to the Catholic church and made himself, and consequently all
future rulers of England, head of the Church. As such do you really think
that Henry VIII would have "genuflected" before the Roman pope? I do not
think so.

The Holy Roman Emperor would have been a different matter, since that
individual was likely of the Roman Catholic faith. He would genuflect before the
Pope.

By the way, when the Pope evacuates his bowels, is it Pope poop?


Gordon Hale
Grand Prairie, Texas

Gjest

Re: The Queen of England is equivalent to the pope

Legg inn av Gjest » 08 feb 2005 20:31:02

You mis-read my message.....He is triple crowned as a temporal ruler, and
therefore outranks all monarchs!

Ginny Wagner

RE: The Queen of England is equivalent to the pope

Legg inn av Ginny Wagner » 08 feb 2005 20:41:04

Just can't see the Queen kissin his stirrup! Lol. Can't see the Pope on a
horse! Wonder if our President kissed the Pope's ring and knelt when in
Rome. Hmmmm.

Ginny Wagner




In a message dated 2/8/2005 4:52:19 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
PDeloriol@aol.com writes:

The format for instance, when he visits England, is that as a 'lay' monarch
he outranks the Queen - she therefore genuflects before him. It would be
the
same for the Holy Roman Emperor, He outranks him.




I can only dispute this logically, since I did not know the gentleman cited
as your source.

The ruling monarch of the British Empire is also the head of the English
(Anglican) church, is he/she not. Why would the head of the Catholic
Church
have seniority over the head of the Anglican Church?

I thought this had been determined when Henry VIII set up the Anglican
church in opposition to the Catholic church and made himself, and
consequently all
future rulers of England, head of the Church. As such do you really think
that Henry VIII would have "genuflected" before the Roman pope? I do not
think so.

The Holy Roman Emperor would have been a different matter, since that
individual was likely of the Roman Catholic faith. He would genuflect
before the
Pope.

By the way, when the Pope evacuates his bowels, is it Pope poop?


Gordon Hale
Grand Prairie, Texas

D. Spencer Hines

Queen Elizabeth II & The Holy Father

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 08 feb 2005 20:41:04

Let's see a credible, authoritative source -- with citation and full
quotation -- that Queen Elizabeth II GENUFLECTS to the POPE.

Stand & Deliver....

"The final happiness of man consists in the contemplation of truth....
This is sought for its own sake, and is directed to no other end beyond
itself." Saint Thomas Aquinas, [1224/5-1274] "Summa Contra Gentiles"
[c.1258-1264]

"Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur. Odi profanum vulgus et arceo."

Quintus Aurelius Stultus [33 B.C. - 42 A.D.]

Prosecutio stultitiae est gravis vexatio, executio stultitiae coronat
opus.

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor

<PDeloriol@aol.com> wrote in message
news:74.4cf8bc02.2f39e5b1@aol.com...

| Ahem! It seems painstakingly obvious. The popes [sic] official crown
is a three
| tiered [sic] one, ergo he is above all temporal suzerains as they only
wear
one tier.
| The format [sic] for instance, when he visits England, [sic] is that
as a 'lay'
monarch
| he outranks the Queen - she therefore genuflects [sic] before him. It
would
be the
| same for the Holy Roman Emperor, [sic] He outranks him.
|
| This was patiently explained to me by Anthony Wagner many years ago.
|
| regards
| Peter ( de loriol)

Peter Stewart

Re: Queen Elizabeth II & The Holy Father

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 08 feb 2005 22:45:54

"D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uB8Od.190$Df3.3085@eagle.america.net...
Let's see a credible, authoritative source -- with citation and full
quotation -- that Queen Elizabeth II GENUFLECTS to the POPE.

She doesn't - that can be plainly seen on TV footage of their various
meetings, both in London and Rome.

Wagner was wrong about this. As to non-temporal authority, The queen claims
to be the supreme governor of the Church in England, and the pope to be the
vicar of Christ on earth. In temporal matters, precedence amongst sovereigns
is determined by their order of accession, so that Elizabeth II "outranks"
John Paul II by many years. But of course neither of them would dream of
genuflecting to the other over this.

Peter Stewart

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Queen Elizabeth II & The Holy Father

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 08 feb 2005 23:11:02

Bingo!

Good Post By Peter Stewart.

Peter Delorial, au contraire, must be smoking something vile.

Hashish?

Incredible GAFFE by Wagner -- or bollixed misreporting by Delorial.

DSH

Here's the COMPLETE Exchange:
----------------------------

Let's see a credible, authoritative source -- with citation and full
quotation -- that Queen Elizabeth II GENUFLECTS to the POPE.

Stand & Deliver....

"The final happiness of man consists in the contemplation of truth....
This is sought for its own sake, and is directed to no other end beyond
itself." Saint Thomas Aquinas, [1224/5-1274] "Summa Contra Gentiles"
[c.1258-1264]

"Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur. Odi profanum vulgus et arceo."

Quintus Aurelius Stultus [33 B.C. - 42 A.D.]

Prosecutio stultitiae est gravis vexatio, executio stultitiae coronat
opus.

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor

<PDeloriol@aol.com> wrote in message
news:74.4cf8bc02.2f39e5b1@aol.com...

| Ahem! It seems painstakingly obvious. The popes [sic] official crown
is a three
| tiered [sic] one, ergo he is above all temporal suzerains as they only
wear
one tier.
| The format [sic] for instance, when he visits England, [sic] is that
as a 'lay'
monarch
| he outranks the Queen - she therefore genuflects [sic] before him. It
would
be the
| same for the Holy Roman Emperor, [sic] He outranks him.
|
| This was patiently explained to me by Anthony Wagner many years ago.
|
| regards
| Peter ( de loriol)

"Peter Stewart" <p_m_stewart@msn.com> wrote in message
news:mqaOd.152859$K7.89401@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

| "D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| news:uB8Od.190$Df3.3085@eagle.america.net...

| > Let's see a credible, authoritative source -- with citation and full
| > quotation -- that Queen Elizabeth II GENUFLECTS to the POPE.
|
| She doesn't - that can be plainly seen on TV footage of their various
| meetings, both in London and Rome.
|
| Wagner was wrong about this. As to non-temporal authority, The queen
claims
| to be the supreme governor of the Church in England, and the pope to
be the
| vicar of Christ on earth. In temporal matters, precedence amongst
sovereigns
| is determined by their order of accession, so that Elizabeth II
"outranks"
| John Paul II by many years. But of course neither of them would dream
of
| genuflecting to the other over this.
|
| Peter Stewart

Renia

Re: Queen Elizabeth II & The Holy Father

Legg inn av Renia » 09 feb 2005 02:10:17

Peter Stewart wrote:
"D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uB8Od.190$Df3.3085@eagle.america.net...

Let's see a credible, authoritative source -- with citation and full
quotation -- that Queen Elizabeth II GENUFLECTS to the POPE.


She doesn't - that can be plainly seen on TV footage of their various
meetings, both in London and Rome.

Wagner was wrong about this. As to non-temporal authority, The queen claims
to be the supreme governor of the Church in England, and the pope to be the
vicar of Christ on earth. In temporal matters, precedence amongst sovereigns
is determined by their order of accession, so that Elizabeth II "outranks"
John Paul II by many years. But of course neither of them would dream of
genuflecting to the other over this.

Peter Stewart

Not only that, but a Catholic genuflects before God, and thus to the
Pope as God's earthly representative. The Queen is not Catholic.

Renia

Peter Stewart

Re: Queen Elizabeth II & The Holy Father

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 09 feb 2005 02:57:12

"Renia" <renia@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote in message
news:cubns6$2k7$1@usenet.otenet.gr...
Peter Stewart wrote:
"D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uB8Od.190$Df3.3085@eagle.america.net...

Let's see a credible, authoritative source -- with citation and full
quotation -- that Queen Elizabeth II GENUFLECTS to the POPE.


She doesn't - that can be plainly seen on TV footage of their various
meetings, both in London and Rome.

Wagner was wrong about this. As to non-temporal authority, The queen
claims to be the supreme governor of the Church in England, and the pope
to be the vicar of Christ on earth. In temporal matters, precedence
amongst sovereigns is determined by their order of accession, so that
Elizabeth II "outranks" John Paul II by many years. But of course neither
of them would dream of genuflecting to the other over this.

Peter Stewart

Not only that, but a Catholic genuflects before God, and thus to the Pope
as God's earthly representative. The Queen is not Catholic.

Yes, but remember that Catholics & some others frequently greet bishops,
archbishops and patriarchs in exactly the same way as they might the pope,
although perhaps not with quite the same pious energy to the obeisance.

I find it very strange indeed that Sir Anthony Wagner, who was Garter king
of arms, could have been so ill-informed about such a matter of protocol.

Peter Stewart

David Webb

Re: The Queen of England is equivalent to the pope

Legg inn av David Webb » 09 feb 2005 23:17:31

What about her disgraceful support for multiculturalism and mass non-white
immigration?


"Maaxx" <maaxx@xrs.net> wrote in message
news:726cceb5.0502071507.2ca33531@posting.google.com...
The Queen is equivalent to the pope due to her ancestor, Henry VIII,
in her power over the Church Of England and is a holy and just person
and should be worshipped by the British depite ordering Diana to be
killed by MI5 for consorting with a muslim.

David Webb

Re: The Queen of England is equivalent to the pope

Legg inn av David Webb » 09 feb 2005 23:19:32

Enoch Powell was right to oppos the Pope's visit to England. As someone who
disputes the Queen's governorship of the CofE, he has no place in England.
The Bishop of Rome hath no jurisdiction in this Realm of England.

<PDeloriol@aol.com> wrote in message news:74.4cf8bc02.2f39e5b1@aol.com...
Ahem! It seems painstakingly obvious. The popes official crown is a three
tiered one, ergo he is above all temporal suzerains as they only wear one
tier.
The format for instance, when he visits England, is that as a 'lay'
monarch
he outranks the Queen - she therefore genuflects before him. It would be
the
same for the Holy Roman Emperor, He outranks him.

This was patiently explained to me by Anthony Wagner many years ago.

regards
Peter ( de loriol)


David Webb

Re: Queen Elizabeth II & The Holy Father

Legg inn av David Webb » 09 feb 2005 23:20:59

No. Roman CAtholics bow before saints and bits of clay and wood. The Church
of England is Catholic - AngloCAtholic.



"Renia" <renia@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote in message
news:cubns6$2k7$1@usenet.otenet.gr...
Peter Stewart wrote:
"D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uB8Od.190$Df3.3085@eagle.america.net...

Let's see a credible, authoritative source -- with citation and full
quotation -- that Queen Elizabeth II GENUFLECTS to the POPE.


She doesn't - that can be plainly seen on TV footage of their various
meetings, both in London and Rome.

Wagner was wrong about this. As to non-temporal authority, The queen
claims
to be the supreme governor of the Church in England, and the pope to be
the
vicar of Christ on earth. In temporal matters, precedence amongst
sovereigns
is determined by their order of accession, so that Elizabeth II
"outranks"
John Paul II by many years. But of course neither of them would dream of
genuflecting to the other over this.

Peter Stewart

Not only that, but a Catholic genuflects before God, and thus to the
Pope as God's earthly representative. The Queen is not Catholic.

Renia

David Webb

Re: The Queen of England is equivalent to the pope

Legg inn av David Webb » 09 feb 2005 23:22:29

I don't know about genuflecting before the Pope, but the Queen kisses the
prime minister's arse on a regular basis!!




<PDeloriol@aol.com> wrote in message news:97.58af3704.2f3a6c5d@aol.com...
You mis-read my message.....He is triple crowned as a temporal ruler, and
therefore outranks all monarchs!

Peter Stewart

Re: The Queen of England is equivalent to the pope

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 09 feb 2005 23:58:23

David Webb wrote:

Enoch Powell was right to oppos the Pope's visit to England. As
someone who disputes the Queen's governorship of the CofE, he
has no place in England. The Bishop of Rome hath no jurisdiction
in this Realm of England.

What has jurisdiction got to do with paying a visit? By this standard
the queen should confine her travels to the United Kingdom & the
Commonwealth nations of which she is still head of state. Is it
ill-mannered on her part to go to the USA when invited (as of course
the pope was to England, by HERSELF)? or to the Vatican, with her rival
claim to authority over a part of the Catholic Church, when invited
there by HIM?

Perhaps an Englishman should remember that when his countrymen rid
themselves of King James II, he was welcomed at the court of King Louis
XIV despite maintaining his rival claim to be king of France.

Peter Stewart

Matthew Rockefeller

Re: The Queen of England is equivalent to the pope

Legg inn av Matthew Rockefeller » 10 feb 2005 00:17:04

First, she isn't a legitimate descendant of Henry VIII, though she may
be a descendant through illegitimate issue, but I'd have to double
check that before I wrote it. I'm a descendant through his illegitimate
daughter by Mary Boleyn, sister of Anne Boleyn.
Second, she shouldn't be "worshipped", just as Catholics don't
"worship" the Pope. He is venerated, because in their religion he is
God's representative on earth, called the Vicar of Christ. I'm not a
Catholic, but because of his position in the Catholic hierarchy, and as
a successor to the Apostles, I acknowledge him as a person worthy of
great honor.
Third, you do in a sense have a point, because the kings of England
were venerated and considered as having at least healing powers. I've
read that my ancestor, Charles II, was the last though to publically
heal people, which was considered a power he had, granted by God. Does
anyone have further information on kings after Charles II healing
people? Perhaps, James II at least?

For anyone interested you can find a picture here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laying_on_of_hands
of Charles II performing "the divine touch". That page says Queen Anne
was the last to proclaim to have the ability to heal, but I am not sure
that she publically used the ability. Although, I could see Bonnie
Prince Charlie using the ability to assure his royal status, I have not
read about his use of the ability either.

Matthew

Tony Hoskins

Re: The Queen of England is equivalent to the pope

Legg inn av Tony Hoskins » 10 feb 2005 01:01:05

"Matthew Rockefeller" <matthew_rockefeller@yahoo.com> 02/09/05
03:17PM


I'm a descendant through his illegitimate
daughter by Mary Boleyn, sister of Anne Boleyn.


--
Dear Mr. Rockefeller:

I am the author of "Mary Boleyn's Carey Children: Offspring of King
Henry VIII?" The Genealogists' Magazine (London), Vol. 25 (March
1997.)

I am gathering lineages of Americans descended for Mary Boleyn's Carey
offspring. I would be glad to include your own, if you would kindly
supply it to me.

Anthony Hoskins
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
History and Genealogy Library
Sonoma County Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404

707/545-0831, ext. 562

Douglas Richardson royala

Re: The Queen of England is equivalent to the pope

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson royala » 10 feb 2005 01:09:41

Dear Tony ~

Do you know if there any efforts being made to test the remains of King
Henry VIII and the two Carey children to see if King Henry was their
father? I would think this would be an interesting case to use modern
genetic research techniques to prove or disprove paternity. By the
way, I really enjoyed your article on the Carey children. It was
extremely well written. Are there plans for more articles?

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: http://www.royalancestry.net

"Tony Hoskins" wrote:
"Matthew Rockefeller" <matthew_rockefeller@yahoo.com> 02/09/05
03:17PM

I'm a descendant through his illegitimate
daughter by Mary Boleyn, sister of Anne Boleyn.

--
Dear Mr. Rockefeller:

I am the author of "Mary Boleyn's Carey Children: Offspring of King
Henry VIII?" The Genealogists' Magazine (London), Vol. 25 (March
1997.)

I am gathering lineages of Americans descended for Mary Boleyn's
Carey
offspring. I would be glad to include your own, if you would kindly
supply it to me.

Anthony Hoskins
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
History and Genealogy Library
Sonoma County Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404

707/545-0831, ext. 562

Matthew Rockefeller

Re: The Queen of England is equivalent to the pope

Legg inn av Matthew Rockefeller » 10 feb 2005 01:26:19

No problem Mr Hoskins, I would be glad to. I would need to type up the
descent, with as many dates as I can find for you, as I don't have that
done yet. I'll put that on my project list and contact you as soon as I
can gather all the appropriate information. I don't think many people
in the genealogy world know of John D. Rockefeller's descent from Henry
VIII, and of course his siblings as well.

Matthew

Gjest

Re: Queen Elizabeth II & The Holy Father

Legg inn av Gjest » 10 feb 2005 04:23:47

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Good point. If they (RCC) were the only
Catholics, there would be no widespread
use of "Roman" before the word "Catholic."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gjest

Re: The Queen of England is equivalent to the pope

Legg inn av Gjest » 10 feb 2005 08:12:28

Matthew, would you post it? I would like to see it, too, and there are
probably others who would be interested. Thanks, Bronwen

Don Stone

Re: The Queen of England is equivalent to the pope

Legg inn av Don Stone » 10 feb 2005 18:13:20

Tony Hoskins wrote:

"Matthew Rockefeller" <matthew_rockefeller@yahoo.com> wrote
I'm a descendant through his illegitimate
daughter by Mary Boleyn, sister of Anne Boleyn.

--
Dear Mr. Rockefeller:

I am the author of "Mary Boleyn's Carey Children: Offspring of King
Henry VIII?" The Genealogists' Magazine (London), Vol. 25 (March
1997.)

I am gathering lineages of Americans descended for Mary Boleyn's Carey
offspring. I would be glad to include your own, if you would kindly
supply it to me.

Anthony Hoskins

From Notable Kin: Tycoons, New England, and Kings, Part I, by Gary Boyd
Roberts (NEHGS Nexus, Volume 4 - 1987):

3. JOHN DAVISON ROCKEFELLER, 1839-1937, & WILLIAM ROCKEFELLER, 1841-1922,
brothers; William Avery Rockefeller & Eliza Davison; Godfrey Rockefeller &
Lucy Avery; Miles Avery & Malinda Pixley; Solomon Avery & Hannah Punderson;
Humphrey Avery & Jerusha Morgan; Samuel Avery & Susannah Palmes; William
Palmes & Anne Humphrey; John Humphrey & Elizabeth Pelham; Herbert Pelham &
Hon. Elizabeth West; Thomas West, 2nd Baron Delaware (de La Warr) & Anne
Knollys; Sir Francis Knollys & Catherine Cary; William Cary & Lady Mary
Boleyn, sister of Queen Anne Boleyn & aunt of Queen Elizabeth I.

-- Don Stone

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