Conrad, Markgraf v. Meissen

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Pam

Conrad, Markgraf v. Meissen

Legg inn av Pam » 06 feb 2005 20:33:16

I'm new to the group and medieval genealogy in general. I've been referred
to a couple of websites which are supposed to be pretty good with medieval
genealogy. I found some contradictions and was wondering if anyone knows
what is the correct (if any) data.

It regards Conrad, Markgraf v. Meissen's wife, Luitgart. One site calls her
Luidgard v. Ravensburg and the other Luitgart v Ravenstein. I imagine some
of that could be due to translations of earlier works but my biggest
question is concerning her ancestry. One place says her parents were Graf
Adalbert von Ravenstein and Bertha (parents unknown). The other says
Albrecht Graf v. Ravensburg and Bertha v. Oesterreich, daughter of Leopold
III. Is her mother this Bertha or is it a Bertha whose parents are unknown?
Any clarification would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

--
Pam
http://www.pamsgenealogy.net

Peter Stewart

Re: Conrad, Markgraf v. Meissen

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 07 feb 2005 00:16:55

Pam wrote:

I found some contradictions and was wondering if anyone knows
what is the correct (if any) data.

It regards Conrad, Markgraf v. Meissen's wife, Luitgart. One site
calls her Luidgard v. Ravensburg and the other Luitgart v Ravenstein.
I imagine some of that could be due to translations of earlier works
but my biggest question is concerning her ancestry. One place says
her parents were Graf Adalbert von Ravenstein and Bertha (parents
unknown). The other says Albrecht Graf v. Ravensburg and Bertha v.
Oesterreich, daughter of Leopold III. Is her mother this Bertha or
is it a Bertha whose parents are unknown?

The last of these must be wrong - Margravine Luitgard's mother Bertha
could not have been the namesake daughter of Luitpold III of Austria,
on chronological grounds: the Bertha of Austria in question was married
to Heinrich, burggrave of Regensburg, she died before him, and she was
probably born _after_ Luitgard anyway.

Another possibility is that Luitgard's mother Bertha was sister of the
German king Konrad III. This lady was daughter of Friedrich I, duke of
Swabia & Franconia, whose second wife (presumably her mother) went on
to marry Luitpold III of Austria (hence she would have been his
step-daughter). But the chronology is somewhat stretched for this too.

It depends on the identification of the Swabian Count Albert,
Liutgard's father. Bertha of Swabia's husband was count of Elchingen
according to ES, or Elchingen-Ravenstein according to
http://www.genealogie-mittelalter.de/ at

http://tinyurl.com/6bnzr

If you can read German, this is a good starting point - and worth the
effort as there is an amusing story of Liutgard's burial & exhumation.

Peter Stewart

Peter Stewart

Re: Conrad, Markgraf v. Meissen

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 07 feb 2005 03:20:56

"Peter Stewart" <p_m_stewart@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1107731815.183990.219480@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

<snip>

Another possibility is that Luitgard's mother Bertha was sister of the
German king Konrad III. This lady was daughter of Friedrich I, duke of
Swabia & Franconia, whose second wife (presumably her mother) went on
to marry Luitpold III of Austria (hence she would have been his
step-daughter). But the chronology is somewhat stretched for this too.

It seems that in this family just about anything is believed possible by
German specialists.

Consider this: according to ES I.1, Die fränkischen Könige und die Könige
und Kaiser (Frankfurt am Main, 1998), Agnes von "Waiblingen" was born in the
summer of 1072/3 [Tafel 12], a daughter of Emperor Heinrich IV. On 24 March
1079 she was betrothed to Friedrich I von Staufen, who was made duke of
Swabia. They were marrierd in 1086/7 and by him [Tafel 14] she was mother of
eleven children (including the Bertha who married a Count Adalbert, not
further specified here).

So far so good. Then in 1105, before 21 July, Friedrich died and the
following year his widow Agnes married Luitpold III of Austria. She was then
aged 33, but a prodigy for her age: she went on [Tafel 84] to have another
seventeen or possibly eighteen children! 28 or 29 in all, the last 10 (or
perhaps 11) listed after a son born in 1116 when she was 43. How many
multiple births occurred in this fantastic brood we are not told.

Peter Stewart

Pam

Re: Conrad, Markgraf v. Meissen

Legg inn av Pam » 07 feb 2005 12:48:22

Thank you, Peter, for your help. I've been a little overwhelmed in
following some of the lines and am trying to sort them all out. It's been
fascinating reading, though. I appreciate the help.
--
Pam
http://www.pamsgenealogy.net

"Peter Stewart" <p_m_stewart@msn.com> wrote in message
news:cgANd.150503$K7.122588@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
"Peter Stewart" <p_m_stewart@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1107731815.183990.219480@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

snip

Another possibility is that Luitgard's mother Bertha was sister of the
German king Konrad III. This lady was daughter of Friedrich I, duke of
Swabia & Franconia, whose second wife (presumably her mother) went on
to marry Luitpold III of Austria (hence she would have been his
step-daughter). But the chronology is somewhat stretched for this too.

It seems that in this family just about anything is believed possible by
German specialists.



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