FW: Re: Eleanor Of Aquitaine

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John Parsons

FW: Re: Eleanor Of Aquitaine

Legg inn av John Parsons » 02 feb 2005 00:01:02

This is the correct reference to the Lewis article. Lewis, a MacArthur
Fellow and a medievalist of impeccable repute, discusses the evidence fully
in the article cited below.

You may wish to compare the chronicle passage dealing with the children of
Edward I which is the only evidence we have that Edward and his first wife,
Eleanor of Castile, were the parents of 5 sons, not 4 as is usually stated.
The author of this chronicle, a monk at St Albans, does not give a name for
the 5th son (or 4th, as the order of birth would seem to be), but cited an
unchalangeable source: Edward I himself, whom the monk describes often
discussing his family and naming all his children by Queen Eleanor. See
John C. Parsons, "The Year of Eleanor of Castile's Birth and Her Children by
Edward I," Mediaeval Studies 46 (1984): 245-65, esp. 264.

From: "Peter Stewart" <p_m_stewart@msn.com
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Eleanor Of Aquitaine
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 21:34:48 GMT

"D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B7SLd.734$6k.9888@eagle.america.net...
No.

Henry II and Eleanor reportedly had EIGHT CHILDREN -- NOT NINE.

The first, William, died at age TWO.

Apparently they had nine, as John Carmis Parsons has said. Luckily I still
have brain function enough to check such things before posting about them.

There was evidently a son, whose name is not known, born either in 1160/1
or
1163/4, who died in infancy.

This was discussed by Andrew Lewis in 'The Birth and Childhood of King
John:
Some Revisions', _Eleanor of Aquitaine: Lord and Lady_, edited by John
Carmi
Parsons & Bonnie Wheeler (New York & Basingstoke, 2002) p. 161 and note 10.



Peter Stewart


D. Spencer Hines

Re: Re: Eleanor Of Aquitaine

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 02 feb 2005 01:11:01

For John Carmi Parsons:

This alleged 9th child of Henry II and Eleanor was:

A. Stillborn?

B. Male or Female?

C. Named?

D. Allegedly was born and died when?

Bottom Line:

Any Genealogical Significance?

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor

Peter A. Kincaid

Re: FW: RE: Eleanor Of Aquitaine

Legg inn av Peter A. Kincaid » 07 feb 2005 23:01:02

True. However, you have to also acknowledge that our current
history books are full of some of these (as you say) "myths so
often- and so long-repeated that they come to be accepted
unquestioningly as fact." There is much to be gained by having
more unbiased eyes re-examining some of the previous material
given the wider access to contemporary records.

Best wishes!

Peter


At 02:16 PM 05/02/2005, you wrote:
I'd like to thank Mr. Parsons for so ably discussing this. I have
noticed many parallels once an historical figure is "popularized".
Antonia Fraser, Philippa Gregory, et al, may be entertaining writers for
many, but there is a dangerous tendency over time for these
non-historians' widely-disseminated portrayals to assume "fact-like"
status; myths so often- and so long-repeated that they come to be
accepted unquestioningly as fact.


Anthony Hoskins
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
History and Genealogy Library
Sonoma County Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404

707/545-0831, ext. 562

Vickie Elam White

Re: Eleanor Of Aquitaine

Legg inn av Vickie Elam White » 08 feb 2005 20:07:46

Does Lewis' article appear elsewhere besides in
your book? I plan on buying the book, but I'd like
to read the article before then.

Vickie Elam White
VEWhite@nycap.rr.com


""John Parsons"" <carmi47@msn.com> wrote in message
news:BAY7-F3CC4B022780766C1AF277B27D0@phx.gbl...
This is the correct reference to the Lewis article. Lewis, a
MacArthur
Fellow and a medievalist of impeccable repute, discusses the
evidence fully
in the article cited below.

You may wish to compare the chronicle passage dealing with the
children of
Edward I which is the only evidence we have that Edward and his
first wife,
Eleanor of Castile, were the parents of 5 sons, not 4 as is
usually stated.
The author of this chronicle, a monk at St Albans, does not give
a name for
the 5th son (or 4th, as the order of birth would seem to be), but
cited an
unchalangeable source: Edward I himself, whom the monk describes
often
discussing his family and naming all his children by Queen
Eleanor. See
John C. Parsons, "The Year of Eleanor of Castile's Birth and Her
Children by
Edward I," Mediaeval Studies 46 (1984): 245-65, esp. 264.

From: "Peter Stewart" <p_m_stewart@msn.com
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Eleanor Of Aquitaine
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 21:34:48 GMT

"D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B7SLd.734$6k.9888@eagle.america.net...
No.

Henry II and Eleanor reportedly had EIGHT CHILDREN -- NOT
NINE.

The first, William, died at age TWO.

Apparently they had nine, as John Carmis Parsons has said.
Luckily I still
have brain function enough to check such things before posting
about them.

There was evidently a son, whose name is not known, born either
in 1160/1
or
1163/4, who died in infancy.

This was discussed by Andrew Lewis in 'The Birth and Childhood
of King
John:
Some Revisions', _Eleanor of Aquitaine: Lord and Lady_, edited
by John
Carmi
Parsons & Bonnie Wheeler (New York & Basingstoke, 2002) p. 161 a
nd note 10.



Peter Stewart


D. Spencer Hines

Re: Eleanor Of Aquitaine

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 08 feb 2005 20:31:02

Good Question, Vickie -- and crafty.

DSH

"Vickie Elam White" <VEWhite@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:668Od.674$Eq6.599@twister.nyroc.rr.com...

| Does Lewis' article appear elsewhere besides in
| your book? I plan on buying the book, but I'd like
| to read the article before then.
|
| Vickie Elam White
| VEWhite@nycap.rr.com

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