New Tudor?

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
John Parsons

New Tudor?

Legg inn av John Parsons » 01 feb 2005 18:21:02

In the past I have occasionally seen statements (never supported by
citations) that Henry VII & Elizabeth of York had 8 children. Authoritative
accounts, however, give only seven names: Arthur (1486-1502), Margaret
(1489-1541), Henry (1491-1547), Elizabeth (1492-1495), Mary (1496-1533),
Edmund (1499-1500) and the short-lived Katherine, whose birth on 2 February
1503 cost Elizabeth of York her life.

I recently came across a reference in Joanna Laynesmith's *The Last Medieval
Queens* (Oxford University Press, 2003), p. 111, that Elizabeth of York made
a pilgrimage to the shrine of Our Lady at Walsingham in 1495, "perhaps in
response to the recent deaths of her 4-year-old daughter Elizabeth and a son
born prematurely." She cites N.L. Harvey, *Elizabeth of York, the Mother of
Henry VIII* (NY, 1973), pp. 169-70. I have seen no other reference to a
short-lived (or stillborn) son born to Elizabeth of York in 1495; the only
male children of hers of whom I have record are those named above--Arthur,
Henry, and Edmund.

I have not been able to locate a copy of N.L. Harvey's work in any of the
larger Orlando libraries. Can anyone on the list confirm the citation?

Many thanks,

John P.

Stewart Baldwin

Re: New Tudor?

Legg inn av Stewart Baldwin » 01 feb 2005 19:26:38

On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 17:16:03 +0000 (UTC), carmi47@msn.com ("John
Parsons") wrote:

In the past I have occasionally seen statements (never supported by
citations) that Henry VII & Elizabeth of York had 8 children. Authoritative
accounts, however, give only seven names: Arthur (1486-1502), Margaret
(1489-1541), Henry (1491-1547), Elizabeth (1492-1495), Mary (1496-1533),
Edmund (1499-1500) and the short-lived Katherine, whose birth on 2 February
1503 cost Elizabeth of York her life.

I recently came across a reference in Joanna Laynesmith's *The Last Medieval
Queens* (Oxford University Press, 2003), p. 111, that Elizabeth of York made
a pilgrimage to the shrine of Our Lady at Walsingham in 1495, "perhaps in
response to the recent deaths of her 4-year-old daughter Elizabeth and a son
born prematurely." She cites N.L. Harvey, *Elizabeth of York, the Mother of
Henry VIII* (NY, 1973), pp. 169-70. I have seen no other reference to a
short-lived (or stillborn) son born to Elizabeth of York in 1495; the only
male children of hers of whom I have record are those named above--Arthur,
Henry, and Edmund.

I have not been able to locate a copy of N.L. Harvey's work in any of the
larger Orlando libraries. Can anyone on the list confirm the citation?

The relevant paragraph on pages 169-70 of Harvey's work reads as
follows (where "these events" refers to Perkin Warbeck's activities):

"To Elizabeth these events seemed remote, for her younger daughter,
Princess Elizabeth, aged four, a beautiful and happy child, suddenly
died. The grief of the loss in turn hurried the birth of another son
who also died - too small to survive. The [p. 170] two were buried in
the chapel at Westminster. It was true that the other children were
healthy, would probably grow strong and live, and for this she was
grateful. It was equally true that deaths must happen where there
were many children - but this knowledge did not ease the pain or
stifle the grief. She knew too that she must grieve alone, for events
swirled about them all and pushed them on to activity. She therefore
journeyed as an act of faith to the shrine of the Virgin at
Walsingham."

There are no footnotes in this paragraph or in the following two
paragraphs (which return to the fight against Perkin Warbeck).

Stewart Baldwin

Gjest

Re: New Tudor?

Legg inn av Gjest » 02 feb 2005 13:21:01

As a long shot, I wonder if an examination of Hy VII and Elizabeth's tomb
would give the answer. Often a couples issue are represented around an altar
table tomb, perhaps a child who died an infant would not be shown, but if the
issue are represented and there are eight shown, it would support the assertion
of such a child. Its over 30 years since I was in Hy VII chapel, Westminster
Abbey, and I cannot remember what the tomb looked like, nor could I find a decen
t picture on a quick search of the web.

An inscription for the daughter, Elizabeth, is mentioned in _Ancient Funeral
Monuments 1631_ by John Weever

Adrian

On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 17:16:03 +0000 (UTC), carmi47@msn.com ("John
Parsons") wrote:

In the past I have occasionally seen statements (never supported by
citations) that Henry VII &Elizabeth of York had 8 children. Authoritative

accounts, however, give only seven names: Arthur (1486-1502), Margaret
(1489-1541), Henry (1491-1547), Elizabeth (1492-1495), Mary (1496-1533),
Edmund (1499-1500) and the short-lived Katherine, whose birth on 2 February

1503 cost Elizabeth of York her life.

I recently came across a reference in Joanna Laynesmith's *The Last
Medieval
Queens* (Oxford University Press, 2003), p. 111, that Elizabeth of York
made
a pilgrimage to the shrine of Our Lady at Walsingham in 1495, "perhaps in
response to the recent deaths of her 4-year-old daughter Elizabeth and a
son
born prematurely." She cites N.L. Harvey, *Elizabeth of York, the Mother
of
Henry VIII* (NY, 1973), pp. 169-70. I have seen no other reference to a
short-lived (or stillborn) son born to Elizabeth of York in 1495; the only
male children of hers of whom I have record are those named above--Arthur,
Henry, and Edmund.

I have not been able to locate a copy of N.L. Harvey's work in any of the
larger Orlando libraries. Can anyone on the list confirm the citation?

The relevant paragraph on pages 169-70 of Harvey's work reads as
follows (where "these events" refers to Perkin Warbeck's activities):

"To Elizabeth these events seemed remote, for her younger daughter,
Princess Elizabeth, aged four, a beautiful and happy child, suddenly
died. The grief of the loss in turn hurried the birth of another son
who also died - too small to survive. The [p. 170] two were buried in
the chapel at Westminster. It was true that the other children were
healthy, would probably grow strong and live, and for this she was
grateful. It was equally true that deaths must happen where there
were many children - but this knowledge did not ease the pain or
stifle the grief. She knew too that she must grieve alone, for events
swirled about them all and pushed them on to activity. She therefore
journeyed as an act of faith to the shrine of the Virgin at
Walsingham."

There are no footnotes in this paragraph or in the following two
paragraphs (which return to the fight against Perkin Warbeck).

Stewart Baldwin


Eric Petermann

Re: New Tudor?

Legg inn av Eric Petermann » 02 feb 2005 18:41:58

Several internet sites (tudorplace.com.ar comes to mind) show a fourth
son named "Edward", usually between Edmund and Catherine. Also, the
royal genealogy by Weir lists this Edward as questionable. I know
these are not the references you seek but it shows this fourth son does
have some history.

Svar

Gå tilbake til «soc.genealogy.medieval»