William de Brus, d. before 13 June 1213
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Gjest
William de Brus, d. before 13 June 1213
Monday, 31 January, 2005
Hello All,
Concerning the career of William de Brus, Lord of
Annandale (best known as grandfather of Robert de Brus, 'the
Competitor', Lord of Annandale and grandfather of Robert
_the_ Bruce), prior evidence indicated that William had died
some time before 26 June 1215 [1], and that his widow
Cristina had married Patrick, Earl of Dunbar before 4 Dec
1214 (CP and SP). Whatever the actual death date was, it
appeared most likely to have occurred in or before 1214, or
else Cristina had been married to Earl Patrick following an
unknown divorce.
In fact, it is evident that William de Brus had died
before 13 June 1213, and had been succeeded by his son
Robert prior to that date. There is evidence
that Robert de Brus (already the husband of Isabel, dau. of
David of Scotland, Earl of Huntingdon) had succeeded his
father before that date and had placed his brother (unnamed)
as a hostage with William, King of Scotland, and that this
brother was being kept by his cousin Peter de Brus, lord of
Skelton (Yorks.) for the King of Scotland on that date. A
similar letter to the following (according to Joseph Bain),
was written ' to Peter de Brus concerning the brother of
Robert de Brus ' [unidentified], then a hostage of the King
of Scotland placed with Peter de Brus for safekeeping,
ordering that this hostage was to be delivered to the King
of England at Portsmouth, 13 June 1213 :
' 574. Concerning the K. of Scotland's hostages. The K.
to S[aher] earl of Winchester.
Commands him on receipt, immediately to send the
K. by good and safe messengers, Reginald his own son, and
the son of William de Veteripont, hostages of the K. of
Scotland, who are in his custody by the K.'s order; so that
they may be with the K. at Portsmouth on the vigil of St.
John Baptist instant. Beaulieu. ' [2]
That the hostage in question is identified as 'the
brother of Robert de Brus' implies that his father William
was deceased: Robert must have succeeded to his father's
English (and Scots) lands prior to that date, and have
been so recognized by both Scots and English courts, else
the description would have referred to the hostage as being
held for the good conduct of William. If William was alive
on 13 June 1213, the letter would undoubtedly have described
the hostage as 'the son of William de Brus'.
This moves forward the latest possible death date for
William de Brus to a date prior to the known earliest date
(1214) when his widow Cristina is shown as married to
Patrick, Earl of Dunbar.
In addition, this document reflects several interesting
cases, as Doug Richardson had mentioned before, where near
relations were given responsibility for housing royal
hostages (Scots as well as English subjects).
Cheers,
John *
NOTES
[1] ' On 26 Jun 1215, Philip de Ulecot was notified that K
John had granted Robert de Brus, son and heir of William
de Brus, a Wed market [ and a fair on f+2 Laurence (10
Aug)] as it was set out in the charter (RLC, i, p. 217).
Gazetteer of Markets and Fairs to 1516.
[2] Joseph Bain, Calendar of Documents Pertaining to Scotland
I:100-101, cites Foedera I:113; and Close Roll 15 John,
p. 1, m. 4. The complete text in Bain, based on the
Close Roll cited (p. 101):
" Similar letters written to Robert de Vaux concerning
the son of William de Vaux; to William de Mobray
concerning Nigel son of Philip de Mobray; to William son
of Walkelin concerning the son of Gervase Avenel; to
Peter de Brus concerning the brother of Robert de Brus;
afterwards, Thomas de Samford was delivered to be kept
(sic). To Earl David concerning the son of David de
Lindeseie; to William de Albini the father, concerning
the son of Earl Gilbert of Stratherne; to the Prior of
Durham, concerning the son of Laurence de Abernethy
(Aberthen). Beaulieu. The Bishop of Winchester is
instructed verbally (ore) to have the son of Thomas de
Galweya at Portsmouth on the foresaid day; and Robert de
Veteripont to have on same day William son of Earl
Patric, a hostage of the K. of Scots; and it is to be
observed that Alan de Galweya's daughter, who was in
custody of Robert fitz Roger, is dead; and the son of
William Cumin, who was in custody of Eustace de Vescy,
is discharged. [Close, 15, John, p. 1, m. 4.] "
* John P. Ravilious
Hello All,
Concerning the career of William de Brus, Lord of
Annandale (best known as grandfather of Robert de Brus, 'the
Competitor', Lord of Annandale and grandfather of Robert
_the_ Bruce), prior evidence indicated that William had died
some time before 26 June 1215 [1], and that his widow
Cristina had married Patrick, Earl of Dunbar before 4 Dec
1214 (CP and SP). Whatever the actual death date was, it
appeared most likely to have occurred in or before 1214, or
else Cristina had been married to Earl Patrick following an
unknown divorce.
In fact, it is evident that William de Brus had died
before 13 June 1213, and had been succeeded by his son
Robert prior to that date. There is evidence
that Robert de Brus (already the husband of Isabel, dau. of
David of Scotland, Earl of Huntingdon) had succeeded his
father before that date and had placed his brother (unnamed)
as a hostage with William, King of Scotland, and that this
brother was being kept by his cousin Peter de Brus, lord of
Skelton (Yorks.) for the King of Scotland on that date. A
similar letter to the following (according to Joseph Bain),
was written ' to Peter de Brus concerning the brother of
Robert de Brus ' [unidentified], then a hostage of the King
of Scotland placed with Peter de Brus for safekeeping,
ordering that this hostage was to be delivered to the King
of England at Portsmouth, 13 June 1213 :
' 574. Concerning the K. of Scotland's hostages. The K.
to S[aher] earl of Winchester.
Commands him on receipt, immediately to send the
K. by good and safe messengers, Reginald his own son, and
the son of William de Veteripont, hostages of the K. of
Scotland, who are in his custody by the K.'s order; so that
they may be with the K. at Portsmouth on the vigil of St.
John Baptist instant. Beaulieu. ' [2]
That the hostage in question is identified as 'the
brother of Robert de Brus' implies that his father William
was deceased: Robert must have succeeded to his father's
English (and Scots) lands prior to that date, and have
been so recognized by both Scots and English courts, else
the description would have referred to the hostage as being
held for the good conduct of William. If William was alive
on 13 June 1213, the letter would undoubtedly have described
the hostage as 'the son of William de Brus'.
This moves forward the latest possible death date for
William de Brus to a date prior to the known earliest date
(1214) when his widow Cristina is shown as married to
Patrick, Earl of Dunbar.
In addition, this document reflects several interesting
cases, as Doug Richardson had mentioned before, where near
relations were given responsibility for housing royal
hostages (Scots as well as English subjects).
Cheers,
John *
NOTES
[1] ' On 26 Jun 1215, Philip de Ulecot was notified that K
John had granted Robert de Brus, son and heir of William
de Brus, a Wed market [ and a fair on f+2 Laurence (10
Aug)] as it was set out in the charter (RLC, i, p. 217).
Gazetteer of Markets and Fairs to 1516.
[2] Joseph Bain, Calendar of Documents Pertaining to Scotland
I:100-101, cites Foedera I:113; and Close Roll 15 John,
p. 1, m. 4. The complete text in Bain, based on the
Close Roll cited (p. 101):
" Similar letters written to Robert de Vaux concerning
the son of William de Vaux; to William de Mobray
concerning Nigel son of Philip de Mobray; to William son
of Walkelin concerning the son of Gervase Avenel; to
Peter de Brus concerning the brother of Robert de Brus;
afterwards, Thomas de Samford was delivered to be kept
(sic). To Earl David concerning the son of David de
Lindeseie; to William de Albini the father, concerning
the son of Earl Gilbert of Stratherne; to the Prior of
Durham, concerning the son of Laurence de Abernethy
(Aberthen). Beaulieu. The Bishop of Winchester is
instructed verbally (ore) to have the son of Thomas de
Galweya at Portsmouth on the foresaid day; and Robert de
Veteripont to have on same day William son of Earl
Patric, a hostage of the K. of Scots; and it is to be
observed that Alan de Galweya's daughter, who was in
custody of Robert fitz Roger, is dead; and the son of
William Cumin, who was in custody of Eustace de Vescy,
is discharged. [Close, 15, John, p. 1, m. 4.] "
* John P. Ravilious
-
Patricia Junkin
Re: William de Brus, d. before 13 June 1213
The association of the de Veteriponts and Brus family is frequent. Tyndall
and Edenhall seems to be central to the connection.
The earliest mention I have is in 1212 Robert de Brus holds Edenhal of the
King by the service of a knight. Henry the King gave the aforesaid land to
Peter de Brus, his predecessor, by the aforesaid service.
1213, 13 Jun. Orders regarding King of Scots hostages: Rex. S. Com. Winton
etc. Mandamus vobis quod statim usis litteris faciatis venire ad nos per
bonos et salvos nuncios Regen filium vestrum et fil Willelmi de Veteri Ponte
obsides regis Scottorum qui sunt in custodia vestra per praeceptum nostrum
Ita quod sint as nos apud Portesm. in vigil. instantis festi S. Johannis
Baptiste. Eodem modo scribitur Roberto de Vallibus de fillio Wm de Vallibus
[Vaux], Wm. de Mobray, Wm filio Walkelin de filio Gervasii Avenelle, Petro
de Brus de fratre Roberti de Brus. Praeterea Thos. de Stamford liberatus
fuit custodiendus Com. Dev. de filio David de Lindeo. Robert de Ros de
fratre Walter de Clifford. Wm de Albino patri, de filio com Gilberti de
Strauerna, Priori de Dunholm, de filio Laurencii de Aberthen [Teste me ipso
apud Bellum XIII die Jun. Robt. de Veteriponte quod as eundem diem habeat Wm
filium cometes Patricii et obsidem regis Scottorum. Et sciendum est quod
filia Alani de Galewya quae fuit in custodia Robt filii Rogeri Mortua est Et
filius W, Cumin qui fuit in custodia Eustachii de Vescy quitus est Rott.
Litt Clausarum
Among DEEDS RELATING TO EDENHALL Indenture - Lease for years - ref. D MUS
2/2/53 - date: 13 April [1357] Witnesses: Sir Robert de Tylioll sheriff of
Cumberland, Sir Robert de Wethpount, Sir Adam Parnyng, Clement de Skelton,
Adam de Blenchow, Thomas Bewchaumpe, Roger de Saltkeld
Part of the inheritance of Nicholas de Veteriponte [Ivo's descendant]is
taken with his daughter in marriage to Mariota, elder dau. and coheir of
William Stapelton, of Edenhall.
I appreciate the information you have cited.
Pat
----------
and Edenhall seems to be central to the connection.
The earliest mention I have is in 1212 Robert de Brus holds Edenhal of the
King by the service of a knight. Henry the King gave the aforesaid land to
Peter de Brus, his predecessor, by the aforesaid service.
1213, 13 Jun. Orders regarding King of Scots hostages: Rex. S. Com. Winton
etc. Mandamus vobis quod statim usis litteris faciatis venire ad nos per
bonos et salvos nuncios Regen filium vestrum et fil Willelmi de Veteri Ponte
obsides regis Scottorum qui sunt in custodia vestra per praeceptum nostrum
Ita quod sint as nos apud Portesm. in vigil. instantis festi S. Johannis
Baptiste. Eodem modo scribitur Roberto de Vallibus de fillio Wm de Vallibus
[Vaux], Wm. de Mobray, Wm filio Walkelin de filio Gervasii Avenelle, Petro
de Brus de fratre Roberti de Brus. Praeterea Thos. de Stamford liberatus
fuit custodiendus Com. Dev. de filio David de Lindeo. Robert de Ros de
fratre Walter de Clifford. Wm de Albino patri, de filio com Gilberti de
Strauerna, Priori de Dunholm, de filio Laurencii de Aberthen [Teste me ipso
apud Bellum XIII die Jun. Robt. de Veteriponte quod as eundem diem habeat Wm
filium cometes Patricii et obsidem regis Scottorum. Et sciendum est quod
filia Alani de Galewya quae fuit in custodia Robt filii Rogeri Mortua est Et
filius W, Cumin qui fuit in custodia Eustachii de Vescy quitus est Rott.
Litt Clausarum
Among DEEDS RELATING TO EDENHALL Indenture - Lease for years - ref. D MUS
2/2/53 - date: 13 April [1357] Witnesses: Sir Robert de Tylioll sheriff of
Cumberland, Sir Robert de Wethpount, Sir Adam Parnyng, Clement de Skelton,
Adam de Blenchow, Thomas Bewchaumpe, Roger de Saltkeld
Part of the inheritance of Nicholas de Veteriponte [Ivo's descendant]is
taken with his daughter in marriage to Mariota, elder dau. and coheir of
William Stapelton, of Edenhall.
I appreciate the information you have cited.
Pat
----------
From: Therav3@aol.com
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: William de Brus, d. before 13 June 1213
Date: Mon, Jan 31, 2005, 1:58 PM
Monday, 31 January, 2005
Hello All,
Concerning the career of William de Brus, Lord of
Annandale (best known as grandfather of Robert de Brus, 'the
Competitor', Lord of Annandale and grandfather of Robert
_the_ Bruce), prior evidence indicated that William had died
some time before 26 June 1215 [1], and that his widow
Cristina had married Patrick, Earl of Dunbar before 4 Dec
1214 (CP and SP). Whatever the actual death date was, it
appeared most likely to have occurred in or before 1214, or
else Cristina had been married to Earl Patrick following an
unknown divorce.
In fact, it is evident that William de Brus had died
before 13 June 1213, and had been succeeded by his son
Robert prior to that date. There is evidence
that Robert de Brus (already the husband of Isabel, dau. of
David of Scotland, Earl of Huntingdon) had succeeded his
father before that date and had placed his brother (unnamed)
as a hostage with William, King of Scotland, and that this
brother was being kept by his cousin Peter de Brus, lord of
Skelton (Yorks.) for the King of Scotland on that date. A
similar letter to the following (according to Joseph Bain),
was written ' to Peter de Brus concerning the brother of
Robert de Brus ' [unidentified], then a hostage of the King
of Scotland placed with Peter de Brus for safekeeping,
ordering that this hostage was to be delivered to the King
of England at Portsmouth, 13 June 1213 :
' 574. Concerning the K. of Scotland's hostages. The K.
to S[aher] earl of Winchester.
Commands him on receipt, immediately to send the
K. by good and safe messengers, Reginald his own son, and
the son of William de Veteripont, hostages of the K. of
Scotland, who are in his custody by the K.'s order; so that
they may be with the K. at Portsmouth on the vigil of St.
John Baptist instant. Beaulieu. ' [2]
That the hostage in question is identified as 'the
brother of Robert de Brus' implies that his father William
was deceased: Robert must have succeeded to his father's
English (and Scots) lands prior to that date, and have
been so recognized by both Scots and English courts, else
the description would have referred to the hostage as being
held for the good conduct of William. If William was alive
on 13 June 1213, the letter would undoubtedly have described
the hostage as 'the son of William de Brus'.
This moves forward the latest possible death date for
William de Brus to a date prior to the known earliest date
(1214) when his widow Cristina is shown as married to
Patrick, Earl of Dunbar.
In addition, this document reflects several interesting
cases, as Doug Richardson had mentioned before, where near
relations were given responsibility for housing royal
hostages (Scots as well as English subjects).
Cheers,
John *
NOTES
[1] ' On 26 Jun 1215, Philip de Ulecot was notified that K
John had granted Robert de Brus, son and heir of William
de Brus, a Wed market [ and a fair on f+2 Laurence (10
Aug)] as it was set out in the charter (RLC, i, p. 217).
Gazetteer of Markets and Fairs to 1516.
[2] Joseph Bain, Calendar of Documents Pertaining to Scotland
I:100-101, cites Foedera I:113; and Close Roll 15 John,
p. 1, m. 4. The complete text in Bain, based on the
Close Roll cited (p. 101):
" Similar letters written to Robert de Vaux concerning
the son of William de Vaux; to William de Mobray
concerning Nigel son of Philip de Mobray; to William son
of Walkelin concerning the son of Gervase Avenel; to
Peter de Brus concerning the brother of Robert de Brus;
afterwards, Thomas de Samford was delivered to be kept
(sic). To Earl David concerning the son of David de
Lindeseie; to William de Albini the father, concerning
the son of Earl Gilbert of Stratherne; to the Prior of
Durham, concerning the son of Laurence de Abernethy
(Aberthen). Beaulieu. The Bishop of Winchester is
instructed verbally (ore) to have the son of Thomas de
Galweya at Portsmouth on the foresaid day; and Robert de
Veteripont to have on same day William son of Earl
Patric, a hostage of the K. of Scots; and it is to be
observed that Alan de Galweya's daughter, who was in
custody of Robert fitz Roger, is dead; and the son of
William Cumin, who was in custody of Eustace de Vescy,
is discharged. [Close, 15, John, p. 1, m. 4.] "
* John P. Ravilious
-
Alex Maxwell Findlater
Re: William de Brus, d. before 13 June 1213
William Bruce of Annandale died on 16 July 1212.
This is shown by Prof Duncan in a paper in the TDGNHAS Vol 69, 1994.
He goes through all the death dates of the Bruces of Annandale, based
on the liturgical calendar of Guisborough Priory, which only gives the
day and month. The year Duncan arrives at in the same way as above,
but with additional data from the Pipe Rolls, which show that in 1211
William Bruce paid off his arrears of scutage as recorded in 1210, £7:
9s: 8d.
This is shown by Prof Duncan in a paper in the TDGNHAS Vol 69, 1994.
He goes through all the death dates of the Bruces of Annandale, based
on the liturgical calendar of Guisborough Priory, which only gives the
day and month. The year Duncan arrives at in the same way as above,
but with additional data from the Pipe Rolls, which show that in 1211
William Bruce paid off his arrears of scutage as recorded in 1210, £7:
9s: 8d.
-
Peter Stewart
Re: William de Brus, d. before 13 June 1213
"Alex Maxwell Findlater" <maxwellfindlater@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1107248833.145169.274030@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
It could be useful to have the reference for Duncan's paper spelled out
(correctly I hope): _Transactions of the Dumfriesshire and Galloway Natural
History and Antiquarian Society_ 69 (1994).
Peter Stewart
news:1107248833.145169.274030@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
William Bruce of Annandale died on 16 July 1212.
This is shown by Prof Duncan in a paper in the TDGNHAS Vol 69, 1994.
He goes through all the death dates of the Bruces of Annandale, based
on the liturgical calendar of Guisborough Priory, which only gives the
day and month. The year Duncan arrives at in the same way as above,
but with additional data from the Pipe Rolls, which show that in 1211
William Bruce paid off his arrears of scutage as recorded in 1210, £7:
9s: 8d.
It could be useful to have the reference for Duncan's paper spelled out
(correctly I hope): _Transactions of the Dumfriesshire and Galloway Natural
History and Antiquarian Society_ 69 (1994).
Peter Stewart
-
Gjest
Re: William de Brus, d. before 13 June 1213
Tuesday, 1 February, 2005
Dear Alex,
Thanks for the date and source (also thanks for the full name to
Peter) from Prof. Duncan's work. The date given for William de Brus'
death (16 July 1212) is clearly supported by the terminus noted in the
prior post in Bain's Calendar of Docs. Pertaining to Scotland.
This date aside, there are other de Brus/Bruce Lords of Annandale
for whom we (or at least I) have death dates without specific
month/day, as follows:
Robert de Brus, LA (father of the next Robert)
died 1141 or 1142
Robert de Brus, LA (father of Robert and William)
died 1189
Robert de Brus, LA (brother of William)
died ca. 1190
Robert de Brus, LA (son of William, father of the Competitor)
died 1245
Robert de Brus, LA and Earl of Carrick (father of _The_ Bruce)
died before 4 April 1304
If you could provide what dates Prof. Duncan has determined for
the above Lords of Annandale (assuming his article is still
accessible), it would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers (and thanks again),
John
Alex Maxwell Findlater wrote:
Dear Alex,
Thanks for the date and source (also thanks for the full name to
Peter) from Prof. Duncan's work. The date given for William de Brus'
death (16 July 1212) is clearly supported by the terminus noted in the
prior post in Bain's Calendar of Docs. Pertaining to Scotland.
This date aside, there are other de Brus/Bruce Lords of Annandale
for whom we (or at least I) have death dates without specific
month/day, as follows:
Robert de Brus, LA (father of the next Robert)
died 1141 or 1142
Robert de Brus, LA (father of Robert and William)
died 1189
Robert de Brus, LA (brother of William)
died ca. 1190
Robert de Brus, LA (son of William, father of the Competitor)
died 1245
Robert de Brus, LA and Earl of Carrick (father of _The_ Bruce)
died before 4 April 1304
If you could provide what dates Prof. Duncan has determined for
the above Lords of Annandale (assuming his article is still
accessible), it would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers (and thanks again),
John
Alex Maxwell Findlater wrote:
William Bruce of Annandale died on 16 July 1212.
This is shown by Prof Duncan in a paper in the TDGNHAS Vol 69, 1994.
He goes through all the death dates of the Bruces of Annandale, based
on the liturgical calendar of Guisborough Priory, which only gives
the
day and month. The year Duncan arrives at in the same way as above,
but with additional data from the Pipe Rolls, which show that in 1211
William Bruce paid off his arrears of scutage as recorded in 1210,
£7:
9s: 8d.
-
Patricia Junkin
Re: William de Brus, d. before 13 June 1213
The Edenhall Brus line is, please correct me, the one associated with the
Veteripontes. Were Peter and Robert, then the sons of the William Brus in
question?
1212 Robert de Brus holds Edenhal of the King by the service of a knight.
Henry the King gave the aforesaid land to Peter de Brus, his predecessor. A
History of Cumberland. [Testa de Nevill.]
1213, 13 Jun. Orders regarding King of Scots hostages: Rex. S. Com. Winton
etc. Mandamus .....et fil Willelmi de Veteri Ponte.... Petro de Brus de
fratre Roberti de Brus
1217 Alan of Galloway¹s possession of the area of Kirkby Thore and Hillbeck
in Westmoreland[from his mother, Elena/Helen de Morville daughter of Richard
and Avice de Lancaster, which was interrupted by King John¹s hereditary
award of area to Robert de Veteriponte in 1203. A charter of Alan of
Galloway to John of Newbigin was signed by Cumbrians and it is safe to
assume that Alan¹s charter was issued south of the Solway (perhaps at
Appleby itself) and that Robert de V. had effectively been superseded as
lord of Westmoreland.³Periphery and Core: Alan of Galloway.² Alexander Grant
and Keith J. Stringer Notable among their absence as signatories on Alan of
Galloway¹s charter to John of Newbiggin is Roger of Lancaster, Gilbert Fitz
Reinfrid¹s illegitimate son and Robert de Brus of Annandale, lord of
Edenhall. Medieval Scotland; Crown, Lordship and Community, ³Periphery and
Core: Alan of Galloway.²
GEN-MED Archives
"There were two important early families with this surname (also spelled
Brus): the Lords of Annandale, from whom came King Robert I of Scotland; and
the lords of Skelton, Yorkshire. The lords of Annandale don't seem to have
had any descendants using the surname Bruce (except maybe for illegitimate
lines?). Edward Bruce, brother of King Robert, left descendants surnamed
Bruce via an illegitimate son (the Bruces of Clackmannan) traditionally
trace their descent via this line."
Sat, 01 Apr. 2000 ntaylor@fas.harvard.edu, GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com;
Subject: Re: Descendents of The BRUCE
Pat
----------
Veteripontes. Were Peter and Robert, then the sons of the William Brus in
question?
1212 Robert de Brus holds Edenhal of the King by the service of a knight.
Henry the King gave the aforesaid land to Peter de Brus, his predecessor. A
History of Cumberland. [Testa de Nevill.]
1213, 13 Jun. Orders regarding King of Scots hostages: Rex. S. Com. Winton
etc. Mandamus .....et fil Willelmi de Veteri Ponte.... Petro de Brus de
fratre Roberti de Brus
1217 Alan of Galloway¹s possession of the area of Kirkby Thore and Hillbeck
in Westmoreland[from his mother, Elena/Helen de Morville daughter of Richard
and Avice de Lancaster, which was interrupted by King John¹s hereditary
award of area to Robert de Veteriponte in 1203. A charter of Alan of
Galloway to John of Newbigin was signed by Cumbrians and it is safe to
assume that Alan¹s charter was issued south of the Solway (perhaps at
Appleby itself) and that Robert de V. had effectively been superseded as
lord of Westmoreland.³Periphery and Core: Alan of Galloway.² Alexander Grant
and Keith J. Stringer Notable among their absence as signatories on Alan of
Galloway¹s charter to John of Newbiggin is Roger of Lancaster, Gilbert Fitz
Reinfrid¹s illegitimate son and Robert de Brus of Annandale, lord of
Edenhall. Medieval Scotland; Crown, Lordship and Community, ³Periphery and
Core: Alan of Galloway.²
GEN-MED Archives
"There were two important early families with this surname (also spelled
Brus): the Lords of Annandale, from whom came King Robert I of Scotland; and
the lords of Skelton, Yorkshire. The lords of Annandale don't seem to have
had any descendants using the surname Bruce (except maybe for illegitimate
lines?). Edward Bruce, brother of King Robert, left descendants surnamed
Bruce via an illegitimate son (the Bruces of Clackmannan) traditionally
trace their descent via this line."
Sat, 01 Apr. 2000 ntaylor@fas.harvard.edu, GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com;
Subject: Re: Descendents of The BRUCE
Pat
----------
From: "Alex Maxwell Findlater" <maxwellfindlater@hotmail.com
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: William de Brus, d. before 13 June 1213
Date: Tue, Feb 1, 2005, 4:07 AM
William Bruce of Annandale died on 16 July 1212.
This is shown by Prof Duncan in a paper in the TDGNHAS Vol 69, 1994.
He goes through all the death dates of the Bruces of Annandale, based
on the liturgical calendar of Guisborough Priory, which only gives the
day and month. The year Duncan arrives at in the same way as above,
but with additional data from the Pipe Rolls, which show that in 1211
William Bruce paid off his arrears of scutage as recorded in 1210, £7:
9s: 8d.
-
Alex Maxwell Findlater
Re: William de Brus, d. before 13 June 1213
Robert I: 11 May 1142 (obit 4)
Robert II: 17 February 1194 (obit 1), prefered to 26 August 1194 (obit
7)
William III: 16 July 1212 (obit 5)
Robert IV: 26 August (obit 7) or 17 February (obit 1) year uncertain,
but ca 1226, certainly before 1237, and certainly not 1245 as is
usually quoted, following Douglas' Peerage.
Robert V, the Competitor: 31 March 1295 (obit 2)
Robert VI: not buried at Guisborough, but died between 29 March and 4
April 1304.
The article was written while Duncan was preparing entries for the new
DNB (Dictionary of National Biography - that's for you, Peter- ) and
therefore contains a fair amount of biographical material, but as with
all Duncan's work, is not easy to read.
Robert II: 17 February 1194 (obit 1), prefered to 26 August 1194 (obit
7)
William III: 16 July 1212 (obit 5)
Robert IV: 26 August (obit 7) or 17 February (obit 1) year uncertain,
but ca 1226, certainly before 1237, and certainly not 1245 as is
usually quoted, following Douglas' Peerage.
Robert V, the Competitor: 31 March 1295 (obit 2)
Robert VI: not buried at Guisborough, but died between 29 March and 4
April 1304.
The article was written while Duncan was preparing entries for the new
DNB (Dictionary of National Biography - that's for you, Peter- ) and
therefore contains a fair amount of biographical material, but as with
all Duncan's work, is not easy to read.
-
Peter Stewart
Re: William de Brus, d. before 13 June 1213
"Alex Maxwell Findlater" <maxwellfindlater@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1107590645.066350.229790@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Thanks, Alex. Some time ago there was discussion about a list of commonly
used abbreviations for the newsgroup, but I don't know what - if anythng -
came of it. Perhaps there's a refernce file somewhere on Rootsweb?
Peter Stewart
news:1107590645.066350.229790@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Robert I: 11 May 1142 (obit 4)
Robert II: 17 February 1194 (obit 1), prefered to 26 August 1194 (obit
7)
William III: 16 July 1212 (obit 5)
Robert IV: 26 August (obit 7) or 17 February (obit 1) year uncertain,
but ca 1226, certainly before 1237, and certainly not 1245 as is
usually quoted, following Douglas' Peerage.
Robert V, the Competitor: 31 March 1295 (obit 2)
Robert VI: not buried at Guisborough, but died between 29 March and 4
April 1304.
The article was written while Duncan was preparing entries for the new
DNB (Dictionary of National Biography - that's for you, Peter- )
Thanks, Alex. Some time ago there was discussion about a list of commonly
used abbreviations for the newsgroup, but I don't know what - if anythng -
came of it. Perhaps there's a refernce file somewhere on Rootsweb?
Peter Stewart
-
CE Wood
Abbreviations (was Re: William de Brus, d. before 13 June 12
We got this far, but nothing ever came of it:
British Record Society
Camden Series
Encyclopaedia Britannica
Stemmata Chicheleana
Testamenta Vetusta
AACPW American Ancestors and Cousins of the Princess of Wales
(Roberts & Reitwiesner)
AAP Ancestors of American Presidents (Roberts)
AB Annales de Bourgogne
AC Alumni Cantabrigensis
AD Alumni Dublinensis
AEM Anuario de Estudios Medievales
AF Ancestral File
AG Accredited Genealogist
AM Annales du Midi
ANS Anglo-Norman Studies
AO Alumni Oxonienses
AP&P Adventurers of Purse and Person
AR7 Ancestral Roots, 7th ed. (Weis)
BAF American Families (1939) (Burke)
BC Commoners (Burke)
BIFR Irish Families (1976) (Burke)
BLG Landed Gentry (Burke)
BLGI Landed Gentry of Ireland, 1899,1904,1912,1958 (Burke)
BN Bibliotheque Nationale
BP Peerage (Burke)
BP1 Presidential_Families, 1st ed. (Burke)
BPci Peerage, 101st ed. (Burke)
BRF Guide to the Royal Family, 1973 (Burke)
BRF Britain's Royal Families (Weir)
BXB Dormant and Extinct Baronetcies (Burke)
BXP Dormant and Extinct Peerages (Burke)
CCM Cahiers de Civilisation Médiévale
CCR Calendar of Charter Rolls
CCR Calendar of Close Rolls
CF Colonial Families of the Southern States of America (Hardy)
CFR Calendar of Fine Rolls
CG Certified Genealogist
CIM Calendar of Inquisitions Miscellaneous
CIPM Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem
CLR Calendar of Liberate Rolls
CP The Complete Peerage
CPR Calendar of Patent Rolls
CR Close Rolls
CRR Curia Regis Rolls
CTG Collectanea
DB Domesday Book (1086 or thereabouts)
DD Domesday Descendants (Keats-Rohan)
DES Oxford "A Dictionary of English Surnames"
DNB Dictionary of National Biography
DP Domesday People (Keats-Rohan)
ECD1 Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol I (Redlich)
ECD2 Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol II (Langston & Buck)
ECD3 Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol III (Buck & Beard)
EHR English Historical Review
ES Europaische Stammtafeln (Schwennicke) (neue Folge)
ESI Europaische Stammtafeln (Isenburg)
ESI/L Europaische Stammtafeln (Isenburg/von Loringhoven)
EYC Early Yorkshire Charters
F Plantagenet Ancestry (Faris)
F of F Feet of Fines
FASG Fellow of the American Society of Genealogists
FHC Family History Center
FHL Family History Library, Salt Lake City
Gen. ns The Genealogist, New Series
Gen. os The Genealogist, Old Series
GM Genealogists Magazine
H & G Herald and Genealogist and Heraldry Books
Harl.Soc.Reg.Ser. Harleian Society (Parish) Register Series
Harl.Soc.Vis.Ser. Harleian Society Visitation Series
HKF Honors and Knights' Fees (Farrer)
HOP History of Parliament
HR Historical Research
HSJ Haskins Society Journal
HSRS Harleian Society (Parish) Register Series
HSVS Harleian Society Visitation Series
IGI [extr.] International Genealogical Index, extracted entry
IGI [sub.] International Genealogical Index, submitted entry
IMI International Medieval Index
JMH Journal of Medieval History
LM Lexikon des Mittelalters
M&H Medievalia et Humanistica
MCS Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 (Weis et al.)
MEFR Mélanges de l'École Française de Rome (Moyen Âge)
MG&H Miscellanea Genealogica et Heraldica
MGH Monumenta Germaniae Historica
MGHSS Monumenta Germaniae Historica, Scriptores Series
MP Medieval Prosopography
NEHGR New England Historical & Genealogical Register
NEHGS New England Historic Genealogical Society
NGS National Genealogical Society (USA)
NGSQ National Genealogical Society Quarterly
NK1 Notable Kin, Vol. I (Roberts)
NK2 Notable Kin, Vol. II (Roberts)
NMS Nottingham Medieval Studies
NQ Notes and Queries
NYGBR New York Genealogical & Biographical Record
NYGBS New York Genealogical & Biographical Society
OTG The Genealogist, 19th & early 20th century British periodical
much used by genealogists
PA Plantagenet Ancestry, 2d ed. (Faris)
Paget The Lineage and Ancestry of H. R. H. Prince Charles of Wales,
Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1977 (two volumes)
PRF Pedigree Resource File
PRO Public Record Office [London] referring to original documents
PRS Pipe Roll Society
RD500 The Royal Descent of 500 Immigrants (Roberts)
RFC Royalty for Commoners
RFC2 Royalty for Commoners, 2d ed. (Stuart)
RHF Recueil des Historiens de France
RS Rolls Series
Sanders English Baronies: A Study of their Origin and Descent
1086-1327 (I.J. Sanders)
SoG Society of Genealogists, based in London
Sp Speculum
SP The Scot's Peerage
SS Surties Series
TA The Ancestor
TAG The American Genealogist
TG The Genealogist as published by Neil Thompson & the American
Society of Genealogists
TGM The Genealogist's Magazine, publication by SoG
TPC The Plantagenet Connection, published by Kenneth Harper Finton
VCH Victoria County Histories
Weir Britain's Royal Families (Weir)
WFT World Family Tree CD, [vol]:[num] (Broderbund) Caveat lector
WMC Magna Charta (Wurts)
British Record Society Camden Series Encyclopaedia Britannica Stemmata Chicheleana Testamenta Vetusta American Ancestors and Cousins of the Princess of Wales (Roberts &
Reitwiesner) = AACPW
Ancestors of American Presidents (Roberts) = AAP
Annales de Bourgogne = AB
Alumni Cantabrigensis = AC
Alumni Dublinensis = AD
Anuario de Estudios Medievales = AEM
Ancestral File = AF
Accredited Genealogist = AG
Annales du Midi = AM
Anglo-Norman Studies = ANS
Alumni Oxonienses = AO
Adventurers of Purse and Person = AP&P
Ancestral Roots, 7th ed. (Weis) = AR7
American Families (1939) (Burke) = BAF
Commoners (Burke) = BC
Irish Families (1976) (Burke) = BIFR
Landed Gentry (Burke) = BLG
Landed Gentry of Ireland, 1899,1904,1912,1958 (Burke) = BLGI
Bibliotheque Nationale = BN
Peerage (Burke) = BP
Presidential_Families, 1st ed. (Burke) = BP1
Peerage, 101st ed. (Burke) = BPci
Guide to the Royal Family, 1973 (Burke) = BRF
Britain's Royal Families (Weir) = BRF
Dormant and Extinct Baronetcies (Burke) = BXB
Dormant and Extinct Peerages (Burke)= BXP
Cahiers de Civilisation Médiévale= CCM
Calendar of Charter Rolls = CCR
Calendar of Close Rolls = CCR
Colonial Families of the Southern States of America (Hardy) = CF
Calendar of Fine Rolls = CFR
Certified Genealogist = CG
Calendar of Inquisitions Miscellaneous = CIM
Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem = CIPM
Calendar of Liberate Rolls = CLR
The Complete Peerage = CP
Calendar of Patent Rolls = CPR
Close Rolls = CR
Curia Regis Rolls = CRR
Collectanea = CTG
Domesday Book (1086 or thereabouts) = DB
Domesday Descendants (Keats-Rohan) = DD
Oxford "A Dictionary of English Surnames" = DES
Dictionary of National Biography = DNB
Domesday People (Keats-Rohan) = DP
Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol I (Redlich) = ECD1
Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol II (Langston & Buck) = ECD2
Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol III (Buck & Beard) = ECD3
English Historical Review = EHR
Europaische Stammtafeln (Schwennicke) (neue Folge) = ES
Europaische Stammtafeln (Isenburg) = ESI
Europaische Stammtafeln (Isenburg/von Loringhoven) = ESI/L
Early Yorkshire Charters = EYC
Plantagenet Ancestry (Faris) = F
Feet of Fines = F of F
Fellow of the American Society of Genealogists =FASG
Family History Center = FHC
Family History Library, Salt Lake City = FHL
The Genealogist, New Series = Gen. ns
The Genealogist, Old Series = Gen. os
Genealogists Magazine = GM
Herald and Genealogist and Heraldry Books = H & G
Harleian Society (Parish) Register Series = Harl.Soc.Reg.Ser.
Harleian Society Visitation Series = Harl.Soc.Vis.Ser.
Honors and Knights' Fees (Farrer) = HKF
History of Parliament= HOP
Historical Research= HR
Haskins Society Journal= HSJ
Harleian Society (Parish) Register Series= HSRS
Harleian Society Visitation Series = HSVS
International Genealogical Index, extracted entry = IGI [extr.]
International Genealogical Index, submitted entry = IGI [sub.]
International Medieval Index = IMI
Journal of Medieval History = JMH
Lexikon des Mittelalters = LM
Medievalia et Humanistica = M&H
Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 (Weis et al.) = MCS
Mélanges de l'École Française de Rome (Moyen Âge) = MEFR
Miscellanea Genealogica et Heraldica = MG&H
Monumenta Germaniae Historica = MGH
Monumenta Germaniae Historica, Scriptores Series = MGHSS
Medieval Prosopography = MP
New England Historical & Genealogical Register = NEHGR
New England Historic Genealogical Society = NEHGS
National Genealogical Society (USA) = NGS
National Genealogical Society Quarterly = NGSQ
Notable Kin, Vol. I (Roberts) = NK1
Notable Kin, Vol. II (Roberts) = NK2
Nottingham Medieval Studies = NMS
Notes and Queries = NQ
New York Genealogical & Biographical Record = NYGBR
New York Genealogical & Biographical Society = NYGBS
The Genealogist, 19th & early 20th century British periodical much
used by genealogists = OTG
Plantagenet Ancestry, 2d ed. (Faris) = PA
The Lineage and Ancestry of H. R. H. Prince Charles of Wales,
Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1977 (two volumes) Paget
Pedigree Resource File = PRF
Public Record Office [London] referring to original documents = PRO
Pipe Roll Society = PRS
The Royal Descent of 500 Immigrants (Roberts) = RD500
Royalty for Commoners = RFC
Royalty for Commoners, 2d ed. (Stuart) = RFC2
Recueil des Historiens de France = RHF
Rolls Series = RS
English Baronies: A Study of their Origin and Descent 1086-1327 (I.J.
Sanders) = Sanders
Society of Genealogists, based in London = SoG
Speculum = Sp
The Scot's Peerage = SP
Surties Series = SS
The Ancestor = TA
The American Genealogist = TAG
The Genealogist as published by Neil Thompson & the American Society
of Genealogists = TG
The Genealogist's Magazine, publication by SoG = TGM
The Plantagenet Connection, published by Kenneth Harper Finton = TPC
Victoria County Histories = VCH
Britain's Royal Families (Weir) = Weir
World Family Tree CD, [vol]:[num] (Broderbund) Caveat lector = WFT
Magna Charta (Wurts) = WMC
Peter Stewart wrote:
British Record Society
Camden Series
Encyclopaedia Britannica
Stemmata Chicheleana
Testamenta Vetusta
AACPW American Ancestors and Cousins of the Princess of Wales
(Roberts & Reitwiesner)
AAP Ancestors of American Presidents (Roberts)
AB Annales de Bourgogne
AC Alumni Cantabrigensis
AD Alumni Dublinensis
AEM Anuario de Estudios Medievales
AF Ancestral File
AG Accredited Genealogist
AM Annales du Midi
ANS Anglo-Norman Studies
AO Alumni Oxonienses
AP&P Adventurers of Purse and Person
AR7 Ancestral Roots, 7th ed. (Weis)
BAF American Families (1939) (Burke)
BC Commoners (Burke)
BIFR Irish Families (1976) (Burke)
BLG Landed Gentry (Burke)
BLGI Landed Gentry of Ireland, 1899,1904,1912,1958 (Burke)
BN Bibliotheque Nationale
BP Peerage (Burke)
BP1 Presidential_Families, 1st ed. (Burke)
BPci Peerage, 101st ed. (Burke)
BRF Guide to the Royal Family, 1973 (Burke)
BRF Britain's Royal Families (Weir)
BXB Dormant and Extinct Baronetcies (Burke)
BXP Dormant and Extinct Peerages (Burke)
CCM Cahiers de Civilisation Médiévale
CCR Calendar of Charter Rolls
CCR Calendar of Close Rolls
CF Colonial Families of the Southern States of America (Hardy)
CFR Calendar of Fine Rolls
CG Certified Genealogist
CIM Calendar of Inquisitions Miscellaneous
CIPM Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem
CLR Calendar of Liberate Rolls
CP The Complete Peerage
CPR Calendar of Patent Rolls
CR Close Rolls
CRR Curia Regis Rolls
CTG Collectanea
DB Domesday Book (1086 or thereabouts)
DD Domesday Descendants (Keats-Rohan)
DES Oxford "A Dictionary of English Surnames"
DNB Dictionary of National Biography
DP Domesday People (Keats-Rohan)
ECD1 Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol I (Redlich)
ECD2 Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol II (Langston & Buck)
ECD3 Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol III (Buck & Beard)
EHR English Historical Review
ES Europaische Stammtafeln (Schwennicke) (neue Folge)
ESI Europaische Stammtafeln (Isenburg)
ESI/L Europaische Stammtafeln (Isenburg/von Loringhoven)
EYC Early Yorkshire Charters
F Plantagenet Ancestry (Faris)
F of F Feet of Fines
FASG Fellow of the American Society of Genealogists
FHC Family History Center
FHL Family History Library, Salt Lake City
Gen. ns The Genealogist, New Series
Gen. os The Genealogist, Old Series
GM Genealogists Magazine
H & G Herald and Genealogist and Heraldry Books
Harl.Soc.Reg.Ser. Harleian Society (Parish) Register Series
Harl.Soc.Vis.Ser. Harleian Society Visitation Series
HKF Honors and Knights' Fees (Farrer)
HOP History of Parliament
HR Historical Research
HSJ Haskins Society Journal
HSRS Harleian Society (Parish) Register Series
HSVS Harleian Society Visitation Series
IGI [extr.] International Genealogical Index, extracted entry
IGI [sub.] International Genealogical Index, submitted entry
IMI International Medieval Index
JMH Journal of Medieval History
LM Lexikon des Mittelalters
M&H Medievalia et Humanistica
MCS Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 (Weis et al.)
MEFR Mélanges de l'École Française de Rome (Moyen Âge)
MG&H Miscellanea Genealogica et Heraldica
MGH Monumenta Germaniae Historica
MGHSS Monumenta Germaniae Historica, Scriptores Series
MP Medieval Prosopography
NEHGR New England Historical & Genealogical Register
NEHGS New England Historic Genealogical Society
NGS National Genealogical Society (USA)
NGSQ National Genealogical Society Quarterly
NK1 Notable Kin, Vol. I (Roberts)
NK2 Notable Kin, Vol. II (Roberts)
NMS Nottingham Medieval Studies
NQ Notes and Queries
NYGBR New York Genealogical & Biographical Record
NYGBS New York Genealogical & Biographical Society
OTG The Genealogist, 19th & early 20th century British periodical
much used by genealogists
PA Plantagenet Ancestry, 2d ed. (Faris)
Paget The Lineage and Ancestry of H. R. H. Prince Charles of Wales,
Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1977 (two volumes)
PRF Pedigree Resource File
PRO Public Record Office [London] referring to original documents
PRS Pipe Roll Society
RD500 The Royal Descent of 500 Immigrants (Roberts)
RFC Royalty for Commoners
RFC2 Royalty for Commoners, 2d ed. (Stuart)
RHF Recueil des Historiens de France
RS Rolls Series
Sanders English Baronies: A Study of their Origin and Descent
1086-1327 (I.J. Sanders)
SoG Society of Genealogists, based in London
Sp Speculum
SP The Scot's Peerage
SS Surties Series
TA The Ancestor
TAG The American Genealogist
TG The Genealogist as published by Neil Thompson & the American
Society of Genealogists
TGM The Genealogist's Magazine, publication by SoG
TPC The Plantagenet Connection, published by Kenneth Harper Finton
VCH Victoria County Histories
Weir Britain's Royal Families (Weir)
WFT World Family Tree CD, [vol]:[num] (Broderbund) Caveat lector
WMC Magna Charta (Wurts)
British Record Society Camden Series Encyclopaedia Britannica Stemmata Chicheleana Testamenta Vetusta American Ancestors and Cousins of the Princess of Wales (Roberts &
Reitwiesner) = AACPW
Ancestors of American Presidents (Roberts) = AAP
Annales de Bourgogne = AB
Alumni Cantabrigensis = AC
Alumni Dublinensis = AD
Anuario de Estudios Medievales = AEM
Ancestral File = AF
Accredited Genealogist = AG
Annales du Midi = AM
Anglo-Norman Studies = ANS
Alumni Oxonienses = AO
Adventurers of Purse and Person = AP&P
Ancestral Roots, 7th ed. (Weis) = AR7
American Families (1939) (Burke) = BAF
Commoners (Burke) = BC
Irish Families (1976) (Burke) = BIFR
Landed Gentry (Burke) = BLG
Landed Gentry of Ireland, 1899,1904,1912,1958 (Burke) = BLGI
Bibliotheque Nationale = BN
Peerage (Burke) = BP
Presidential_Families, 1st ed. (Burke) = BP1
Peerage, 101st ed. (Burke) = BPci
Guide to the Royal Family, 1973 (Burke) = BRF
Britain's Royal Families (Weir) = BRF
Dormant and Extinct Baronetcies (Burke) = BXB
Dormant and Extinct Peerages (Burke)= BXP
Cahiers de Civilisation Médiévale= CCM
Calendar of Charter Rolls = CCR
Calendar of Close Rolls = CCR
Colonial Families of the Southern States of America (Hardy) = CF
Calendar of Fine Rolls = CFR
Certified Genealogist = CG
Calendar of Inquisitions Miscellaneous = CIM
Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem = CIPM
Calendar of Liberate Rolls = CLR
The Complete Peerage = CP
Calendar of Patent Rolls = CPR
Close Rolls = CR
Curia Regis Rolls = CRR
Collectanea = CTG
Domesday Book (1086 or thereabouts) = DB
Domesday Descendants (Keats-Rohan) = DD
Oxford "A Dictionary of English Surnames" = DES
Dictionary of National Biography = DNB
Domesday People (Keats-Rohan) = DP
Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol I (Redlich) = ECD1
Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol II (Langston & Buck) = ECD2
Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol III (Buck & Beard) = ECD3
English Historical Review = EHR
Europaische Stammtafeln (Schwennicke) (neue Folge) = ES
Europaische Stammtafeln (Isenburg) = ESI
Europaische Stammtafeln (Isenburg/von Loringhoven) = ESI/L
Early Yorkshire Charters = EYC
Plantagenet Ancestry (Faris) = F
Feet of Fines = F of F
Fellow of the American Society of Genealogists =FASG
Family History Center = FHC
Family History Library, Salt Lake City = FHL
The Genealogist, New Series = Gen. ns
The Genealogist, Old Series = Gen. os
Genealogists Magazine = GM
Herald and Genealogist and Heraldry Books = H & G
Harleian Society (Parish) Register Series = Harl.Soc.Reg.Ser.
Harleian Society Visitation Series = Harl.Soc.Vis.Ser.
Honors and Knights' Fees (Farrer) = HKF
History of Parliament= HOP
Historical Research= HR
Haskins Society Journal= HSJ
Harleian Society (Parish) Register Series= HSRS
Harleian Society Visitation Series = HSVS
International Genealogical Index, extracted entry = IGI [extr.]
International Genealogical Index, submitted entry = IGI [sub.]
International Medieval Index = IMI
Journal of Medieval History = JMH
Lexikon des Mittelalters = LM
Medievalia et Humanistica = M&H
Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 (Weis et al.) = MCS
Mélanges de l'École Française de Rome (Moyen Âge) = MEFR
Miscellanea Genealogica et Heraldica = MG&H
Monumenta Germaniae Historica = MGH
Monumenta Germaniae Historica, Scriptores Series = MGHSS
Medieval Prosopography = MP
New England Historical & Genealogical Register = NEHGR
New England Historic Genealogical Society = NEHGS
National Genealogical Society (USA) = NGS
National Genealogical Society Quarterly = NGSQ
Notable Kin, Vol. I (Roberts) = NK1
Notable Kin, Vol. II (Roberts) = NK2
Nottingham Medieval Studies = NMS
Notes and Queries = NQ
New York Genealogical & Biographical Record = NYGBR
New York Genealogical & Biographical Society = NYGBS
The Genealogist, 19th & early 20th century British periodical much
used by genealogists = OTG
Plantagenet Ancestry, 2d ed. (Faris) = PA
The Lineage and Ancestry of H. R. H. Prince Charles of Wales,
Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1977 (two volumes) Paget
Pedigree Resource File = PRF
Public Record Office [London] referring to original documents = PRO
Pipe Roll Society = PRS
The Royal Descent of 500 Immigrants (Roberts) = RD500
Royalty for Commoners = RFC
Royalty for Commoners, 2d ed. (Stuart) = RFC2
Recueil des Historiens de France = RHF
Rolls Series = RS
English Baronies: A Study of their Origin and Descent 1086-1327 (I.J.
Sanders) = Sanders
Society of Genealogists, based in London = SoG
Speculum = Sp
The Scot's Peerage = SP
Surties Series = SS
The Ancestor = TA
The American Genealogist = TAG
The Genealogist as published by Neil Thompson & the American Society
of Genealogists = TG
The Genealogist's Magazine, publication by SoG = TGM
The Plantagenet Connection, published by Kenneth Harper Finton = TPC
Victoria County Histories = VCH
Britain's Royal Families (Weir) = Weir
World Family Tree CD, [vol]:[num] (Broderbund) Caveat lector = WFT
Magna Charta (Wurts) = WMC
Peter Stewart wrote:
Thanks, Alex. Some time ago there was discussion about a list of
commonly
used abbreviations for the newsgroup, but I don't know what - if
anythng -
came of it. Perhaps there's a refernce file somewhere on Rootsweb?
Peter Stewart
-
Peter Stewart
Re: Abbreviations (was Re: William de Brus, d. before 13 Jun
Thanks for posting this. With "abbreviations" as the first word of the
subject line this will be a very useful addition to the archive.
Peter Stewart
"CE Wood" <wood_ce@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1107635339.590073.138800@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
We got this far, but nothing ever came of it:
British Record Society
Camden Series
Encyclopaedia Britannica
Stemmata Chicheleana
Testamenta Vetusta
AACPW American Ancestors and Cousins of the Princess of Wales
(Roberts & Reitwiesner)
AAP Ancestors of American Presidents (Roberts)
AB Annales de Bourgogne
AC Alumni Cantabrigensis
AD Alumni Dublinensis
AEM Anuario de Estudios Medievales
AF Ancestral File
AG Accredited Genealogist
AM Annales du Midi
ANS Anglo-Norman Studies
AO Alumni Oxonienses
AP&P Adventurers of Purse and Person
AR7 Ancestral Roots, 7th ed. (Weis)
BAF American Families (1939) (Burke)
BC Commoners (Burke)
BIFR Irish Families (1976) (Burke)
BLG Landed Gentry (Burke)
BLGI Landed Gentry of Ireland, 1899,1904,1912,1958 (Burke)
BN Bibliotheque Nationale
BP Peerage (Burke)
BP1 Presidential_Families, 1st ed. (Burke)
BPci Peerage, 101st ed. (Burke)
BRF Guide to the Royal Family, 1973 (Burke)
BRF Britain's Royal Families (Weir)
BXB Dormant and Extinct Baronetcies (Burke)
BXP Dormant and Extinct Peerages (Burke)
CCM Cahiers de Civilisation Médiévale
CCR Calendar of Charter Rolls
CCR Calendar of Close Rolls
CF Colonial Families of the Southern States of America (Hardy)
CFR Calendar of Fine Rolls
CG Certified Genealogist
CIM Calendar of Inquisitions Miscellaneous
CIPM Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem
CLR Calendar of Liberate Rolls
CP The Complete Peerage
CPR Calendar of Patent Rolls
CR Close Rolls
CRR Curia Regis Rolls
CTG Collectanea
DB Domesday Book (1086 or thereabouts)
DD Domesday Descendants (Keats-Rohan)
DES Oxford "A Dictionary of English Surnames"
DNB Dictionary of National Biography
DP Domesday People (Keats-Rohan)
ECD1 Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol I (Redlich)
ECD2 Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol II (Langston & Buck)
ECD3 Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol III (Buck & Beard)
EHR English Historical Review
ES Europaische Stammtafeln (Schwennicke) (neue Folge)
ESI Europaische Stammtafeln (Isenburg)
ESI/L Europaische Stammtafeln (Isenburg/von Loringhoven)
EYC Early Yorkshire Charters
F Plantagenet Ancestry (Faris)
F of F Feet of Fines
FASG Fellow of the American Society of Genealogists
FHC Family History Center
FHL Family History Library, Salt Lake City
Gen. ns The Genealogist, New Series
Gen. os The Genealogist, Old Series
GM Genealogists Magazine
H & G Herald and Genealogist and Heraldry Books
Harl.Soc.Reg.Ser. Harleian Society (Parish) Register Series
Harl.Soc.Vis.Ser. Harleian Society Visitation Series
HKF Honors and Knights' Fees (Farrer)
HOP History of Parliament
HR Historical Research
HSJ Haskins Society Journal
HSRS Harleian Society (Parish) Register Series
HSVS Harleian Society Visitation Series
IGI [extr.] International Genealogical Index, extracted entry
IGI [sub.] International Genealogical Index, submitted entry
IMI International Medieval Index
JMH Journal of Medieval History
LM Lexikon des Mittelalters
M&H Medievalia et Humanistica
MCS Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 (Weis et al.)
MEFR Mélanges de l'École Française de Rome (Moyen Âge)
MG&H Miscellanea Genealogica et Heraldica
MGH Monumenta Germaniae Historica
MGHSS Monumenta Germaniae Historica, Scriptores Series
MP Medieval Prosopography
NEHGR New England Historical & Genealogical Register
NEHGS New England Historic Genealogical Society
NGS National Genealogical Society (USA)
NGSQ National Genealogical Society Quarterly
NK1 Notable Kin, Vol. I (Roberts)
NK2 Notable Kin, Vol. II (Roberts)
NMS Nottingham Medieval Studies
NQ Notes and Queries
NYGBR New York Genealogical & Biographical Record
NYGBS New York Genealogical & Biographical Society
OTG The Genealogist, 19th & early 20th century British periodical
much used by genealogists
PA Plantagenet Ancestry, 2d ed. (Faris)
Paget The Lineage and Ancestry of H. R. H. Prince Charles of Wales,
Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1977 (two volumes)
PRF Pedigree Resource File
PRO Public Record Office [London] referring to original documents
PRS Pipe Roll Society
RD500 The Royal Descent of 500 Immigrants (Roberts)
RFC Royalty for Commoners
RFC2 Royalty for Commoners, 2d ed. (Stuart)
RHF Recueil des Historiens de France
RS Rolls Series
Sanders English Baronies: A Study of their Origin and Descent
1086-1327 (I.J. Sanders)
SoG Society of Genealogists, based in London
Sp Speculum
SP The Scot's Peerage
SS Surties Series
TA The Ancestor
TAG The American Genealogist
TG The Genealogist as published by Neil Thompson & the American
Society of Genealogists
TGM The Genealogist's Magazine, publication by SoG
TPC The Plantagenet Connection, published by Kenneth Harper Finton
VCH Victoria County Histories
Weir Britain's Royal Families (Weir)
WFT World Family Tree CD, [vol]:[num] (Broderbund) Caveat lector
WMC Magna Charta (Wurts)
British Record Society =
Camden Series =
Encyclopaedia Britannica =
Stemmata Chicheleana =
Testamenta Vetusta =
American Ancestors and Cousins of the Princess of Wales (Roberts &
Reitwiesner) = AACPW
Ancestors of American Presidents (Roberts) = AAP
Annales de Bourgogne = AB
Alumni Cantabrigensis = AC
Alumni Dublinensis = AD
Anuario de Estudios Medievales = AEM
Ancestral File = AF
Accredited Genealogist = AG
Annales du Midi = AM
Anglo-Norman Studies = ANS
Alumni Oxonienses = AO
Adventurers of Purse and Person = AP&P
Ancestral Roots, 7th ed. (Weis) = AR7
American Families (1939) (Burke) = BAF
Commoners (Burke) = BC
Irish Families (1976) (Burke) = BIFR
Landed Gentry (Burke) = BLG
Landed Gentry of Ireland, 1899,1904,1912,1958 (Burke) = BLGI
Bibliotheque Nationale = BN
Peerage (Burke) = BP
Presidential_Families, 1st ed. (Burke) = BP1
Peerage, 101st ed. (Burke) = BPci
Guide to the Royal Family, 1973 (Burke) = BRF
Britain's Royal Families (Weir) = BRF
Dormant and Extinct Baronetcies (Burke) = BXB
Dormant and Extinct Peerages (Burke)= BXP
Cahiers de Civilisation Médiévale= CCM
Calendar of Charter Rolls = CCR
Calendar of Close Rolls = CCR
Colonial Families of the Southern States of America (Hardy) = CF
Calendar of Fine Rolls = CFR
Certified Genealogist = CG
Calendar of Inquisitions Miscellaneous = CIM
Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem = CIPM
Calendar of Liberate Rolls = CLR
The Complete Peerage = CP
Calendar of Patent Rolls = CPR
Close Rolls = CR
Curia Regis Rolls = CRR
Collectanea = CTG
Domesday Book (1086 or thereabouts) = DB
Domesday Descendants (Keats-Rohan) = DD
Oxford "A Dictionary of English Surnames" = DES
Dictionary of National Biography = DNB
Domesday People (Keats-Rohan) = DP
Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol I (Redlich) = ECD1
Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol II (Langston & Buck) = ECD2
Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol III (Buck & Beard) = ECD3
English Historical Review = EHR
Europaische Stammtafeln (Schwennicke) (neue Folge) = ES
Europaische Stammtafeln (Isenburg) = ESI
Europaische Stammtafeln (Isenburg/von Loringhoven) = ESI/L
Early Yorkshire Charters = EYC
Plantagenet Ancestry (Faris) = F
Feet of Fines = F of F
Fellow of the American Society of Genealogists =FASG
Family History Center = FHC
Family History Library, Salt Lake City = FHL
The Genealogist, New Series = Gen. ns
The Genealogist, Old Series = Gen. os
Genealogists Magazine = GM
Herald and Genealogist and Heraldry Books = H & G
Harleian Society (Parish) Register Series = Harl.Soc.Reg.Ser.
Harleian Society Visitation Series = Harl.Soc.Vis.Ser.
Honors and Knights' Fees (Farrer) = HKF
History of Parliament= HOP
Historical Research= HR
Haskins Society Journal= HSJ
Harleian Society (Parish) Register Series= HSRS
Harleian Society Visitation Series = HSVS
International Genealogical Index, extracted entry = IGI [extr.]
International Genealogical Index, submitted entry = IGI [sub.]
International Medieval Index = IMI
Journal of Medieval History = JMH
Lexikon des Mittelalters = LM
Medievalia et Humanistica = M&H
Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 (Weis et al.) = MCS
Mélanges de l'École Française de Rome (Moyen Âge) = MEFR
Miscellanea Genealogica et Heraldica = MG&H
Monumenta Germaniae Historica = MGH
Monumenta Germaniae Historica, Scriptores Series = MGHSS
Medieval Prosopography = MP
New England Historical & Genealogical Register = NEHGR
New England Historic Genealogical Society = NEHGS
National Genealogical Society (USA) = NGS
National Genealogical Society Quarterly = NGSQ
Notable Kin, Vol. I (Roberts) = NK1
Notable Kin, Vol. II (Roberts) = NK2
Nottingham Medieval Studies = NMS
Notes and Queries = NQ
New York Genealogical & Biographical Record = NYGBR
New York Genealogical & Biographical Society = NYGBS
The Genealogist, 19th & early 20th century British periodical much
used by genealogists = OTG
Plantagenet Ancestry, 2d ed. (Faris) = PA
The Lineage and Ancestry of H. R. H. Prince Charles of Wales,
Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1977 (two volumes) =
Paget
Pedigree Resource File = PRF
Public Record Office [London] referring to original documents = PRO
Pipe Roll Society = PRS
The Royal Descent of 500 Immigrants (Roberts) = RD500
Royalty for Commoners = RFC
Royalty for Commoners, 2d ed. (Stuart) = RFC2
Recueil des Historiens de France = RHF
Rolls Series = RS
English Baronies: A Study of their Origin and Descent 1086-1327 (I.J.
Sanders) = Sanders
Society of Genealogists, based in London = SoG
Speculum = Sp
The Scot's Peerage = SP
Surties Series = SS
The Ancestor = TA
The American Genealogist = TAG
The Genealogist as published by Neil Thompson & the American Society
of Genealogists = TG
The Genealogist's Magazine, publication by SoG = TGM
The Plantagenet Connection, published by Kenneth Harper Finton = TPC
Victoria County Histories = VCH
Britain's Royal Families (Weir) = Weir
World Family Tree CD, [vol]:[num] (Broderbund) Caveat lector = WFT
Magna Charta (Wurts) = WMC
Peter Stewart wrote:
subject line this will be a very useful addition to the archive.
Peter Stewart
"CE Wood" <wood_ce@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1107635339.590073.138800@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
We got this far, but nothing ever came of it:
British Record Society
Camden Series
Encyclopaedia Britannica
Stemmata Chicheleana
Testamenta Vetusta
AACPW American Ancestors and Cousins of the Princess of Wales
(Roberts & Reitwiesner)
AAP Ancestors of American Presidents (Roberts)
AB Annales de Bourgogne
AC Alumni Cantabrigensis
AD Alumni Dublinensis
AEM Anuario de Estudios Medievales
AF Ancestral File
AG Accredited Genealogist
AM Annales du Midi
ANS Anglo-Norman Studies
AO Alumni Oxonienses
AP&P Adventurers of Purse and Person
AR7 Ancestral Roots, 7th ed. (Weis)
BAF American Families (1939) (Burke)
BC Commoners (Burke)
BIFR Irish Families (1976) (Burke)
BLG Landed Gentry (Burke)
BLGI Landed Gentry of Ireland, 1899,1904,1912,1958 (Burke)
BN Bibliotheque Nationale
BP Peerage (Burke)
BP1 Presidential_Families, 1st ed. (Burke)
BPci Peerage, 101st ed. (Burke)
BRF Guide to the Royal Family, 1973 (Burke)
BRF Britain's Royal Families (Weir)
BXB Dormant and Extinct Baronetcies (Burke)
BXP Dormant and Extinct Peerages (Burke)
CCM Cahiers de Civilisation Médiévale
CCR Calendar of Charter Rolls
CCR Calendar of Close Rolls
CF Colonial Families of the Southern States of America (Hardy)
CFR Calendar of Fine Rolls
CG Certified Genealogist
CIM Calendar of Inquisitions Miscellaneous
CIPM Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem
CLR Calendar of Liberate Rolls
CP The Complete Peerage
CPR Calendar of Patent Rolls
CR Close Rolls
CRR Curia Regis Rolls
CTG Collectanea
DB Domesday Book (1086 or thereabouts)
DD Domesday Descendants (Keats-Rohan)
DES Oxford "A Dictionary of English Surnames"
DNB Dictionary of National Biography
DP Domesday People (Keats-Rohan)
ECD1 Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol I (Redlich)
ECD2 Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol II (Langston & Buck)
ECD3 Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol III (Buck & Beard)
EHR English Historical Review
ES Europaische Stammtafeln (Schwennicke) (neue Folge)
ESI Europaische Stammtafeln (Isenburg)
ESI/L Europaische Stammtafeln (Isenburg/von Loringhoven)
EYC Early Yorkshire Charters
F Plantagenet Ancestry (Faris)
F of F Feet of Fines
FASG Fellow of the American Society of Genealogists
FHC Family History Center
FHL Family History Library, Salt Lake City
Gen. ns The Genealogist, New Series
Gen. os The Genealogist, Old Series
GM Genealogists Magazine
H & G Herald and Genealogist and Heraldry Books
Harl.Soc.Reg.Ser. Harleian Society (Parish) Register Series
Harl.Soc.Vis.Ser. Harleian Society Visitation Series
HKF Honors and Knights' Fees (Farrer)
HOP History of Parliament
HR Historical Research
HSJ Haskins Society Journal
HSRS Harleian Society (Parish) Register Series
HSVS Harleian Society Visitation Series
IGI [extr.] International Genealogical Index, extracted entry
IGI [sub.] International Genealogical Index, submitted entry
IMI International Medieval Index
JMH Journal of Medieval History
LM Lexikon des Mittelalters
M&H Medievalia et Humanistica
MCS Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 (Weis et al.)
MEFR Mélanges de l'École Française de Rome (Moyen Âge)
MG&H Miscellanea Genealogica et Heraldica
MGH Monumenta Germaniae Historica
MGHSS Monumenta Germaniae Historica, Scriptores Series
MP Medieval Prosopography
NEHGR New England Historical & Genealogical Register
NEHGS New England Historic Genealogical Society
NGS National Genealogical Society (USA)
NGSQ National Genealogical Society Quarterly
NK1 Notable Kin, Vol. I (Roberts)
NK2 Notable Kin, Vol. II (Roberts)
NMS Nottingham Medieval Studies
NQ Notes and Queries
NYGBR New York Genealogical & Biographical Record
NYGBS New York Genealogical & Biographical Society
OTG The Genealogist, 19th & early 20th century British periodical
much used by genealogists
PA Plantagenet Ancestry, 2d ed. (Faris)
Paget The Lineage and Ancestry of H. R. H. Prince Charles of Wales,
Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1977 (two volumes)
PRF Pedigree Resource File
PRO Public Record Office [London] referring to original documents
PRS Pipe Roll Society
RD500 The Royal Descent of 500 Immigrants (Roberts)
RFC Royalty for Commoners
RFC2 Royalty for Commoners, 2d ed. (Stuart)
RHF Recueil des Historiens de France
RS Rolls Series
Sanders English Baronies: A Study of their Origin and Descent
1086-1327 (I.J. Sanders)
SoG Society of Genealogists, based in London
Sp Speculum
SP The Scot's Peerage
SS Surties Series
TA The Ancestor
TAG The American Genealogist
TG The Genealogist as published by Neil Thompson & the American
Society of Genealogists
TGM The Genealogist's Magazine, publication by SoG
TPC The Plantagenet Connection, published by Kenneth Harper Finton
VCH Victoria County Histories
Weir Britain's Royal Families (Weir)
WFT World Family Tree CD, [vol]:[num] (Broderbund) Caveat lector
WMC Magna Charta (Wurts)
British Record Society =
Camden Series =
Encyclopaedia Britannica =
Stemmata Chicheleana =
Testamenta Vetusta =
American Ancestors and Cousins of the Princess of Wales (Roberts &
Reitwiesner) = AACPW
Ancestors of American Presidents (Roberts) = AAP
Annales de Bourgogne = AB
Alumni Cantabrigensis = AC
Alumni Dublinensis = AD
Anuario de Estudios Medievales = AEM
Ancestral File = AF
Accredited Genealogist = AG
Annales du Midi = AM
Anglo-Norman Studies = ANS
Alumni Oxonienses = AO
Adventurers of Purse and Person = AP&P
Ancestral Roots, 7th ed. (Weis) = AR7
American Families (1939) (Burke) = BAF
Commoners (Burke) = BC
Irish Families (1976) (Burke) = BIFR
Landed Gentry (Burke) = BLG
Landed Gentry of Ireland, 1899,1904,1912,1958 (Burke) = BLGI
Bibliotheque Nationale = BN
Peerage (Burke) = BP
Presidential_Families, 1st ed. (Burke) = BP1
Peerage, 101st ed. (Burke) = BPci
Guide to the Royal Family, 1973 (Burke) = BRF
Britain's Royal Families (Weir) = BRF
Dormant and Extinct Baronetcies (Burke) = BXB
Dormant and Extinct Peerages (Burke)= BXP
Cahiers de Civilisation Médiévale= CCM
Calendar of Charter Rolls = CCR
Calendar of Close Rolls = CCR
Colonial Families of the Southern States of America (Hardy) = CF
Calendar of Fine Rolls = CFR
Certified Genealogist = CG
Calendar of Inquisitions Miscellaneous = CIM
Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem = CIPM
Calendar of Liberate Rolls = CLR
The Complete Peerage = CP
Calendar of Patent Rolls = CPR
Close Rolls = CR
Curia Regis Rolls = CRR
Collectanea = CTG
Domesday Book (1086 or thereabouts) = DB
Domesday Descendants (Keats-Rohan) = DD
Oxford "A Dictionary of English Surnames" = DES
Dictionary of National Biography = DNB
Domesday People (Keats-Rohan) = DP
Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol I (Redlich) = ECD1
Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol II (Langston & Buck) = ECD2
Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol III (Buck & Beard) = ECD3
English Historical Review = EHR
Europaische Stammtafeln (Schwennicke) (neue Folge) = ES
Europaische Stammtafeln (Isenburg) = ESI
Europaische Stammtafeln (Isenburg/von Loringhoven) = ESI/L
Early Yorkshire Charters = EYC
Plantagenet Ancestry (Faris) = F
Feet of Fines = F of F
Fellow of the American Society of Genealogists =FASG
Family History Center = FHC
Family History Library, Salt Lake City = FHL
The Genealogist, New Series = Gen. ns
The Genealogist, Old Series = Gen. os
Genealogists Magazine = GM
Herald and Genealogist and Heraldry Books = H & G
Harleian Society (Parish) Register Series = Harl.Soc.Reg.Ser.
Harleian Society Visitation Series = Harl.Soc.Vis.Ser.
Honors and Knights' Fees (Farrer) = HKF
History of Parliament= HOP
Historical Research= HR
Haskins Society Journal= HSJ
Harleian Society (Parish) Register Series= HSRS
Harleian Society Visitation Series = HSVS
International Genealogical Index, extracted entry = IGI [extr.]
International Genealogical Index, submitted entry = IGI [sub.]
International Medieval Index = IMI
Journal of Medieval History = JMH
Lexikon des Mittelalters = LM
Medievalia et Humanistica = M&H
Magna Charta Sureties, 1215 (Weis et al.) = MCS
Mélanges de l'École Française de Rome (Moyen Âge) = MEFR
Miscellanea Genealogica et Heraldica = MG&H
Monumenta Germaniae Historica = MGH
Monumenta Germaniae Historica, Scriptores Series = MGHSS
Medieval Prosopography = MP
New England Historical & Genealogical Register = NEHGR
New England Historic Genealogical Society = NEHGS
National Genealogical Society (USA) = NGS
National Genealogical Society Quarterly = NGSQ
Notable Kin, Vol. I (Roberts) = NK1
Notable Kin, Vol. II (Roberts) = NK2
Nottingham Medieval Studies = NMS
Notes and Queries = NQ
New York Genealogical & Biographical Record = NYGBR
New York Genealogical & Biographical Society = NYGBS
The Genealogist, 19th & early 20th century British periodical much
used by genealogists = OTG
Plantagenet Ancestry, 2d ed. (Faris) = PA
The Lineage and Ancestry of H. R. H. Prince Charles of Wales,
Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1977 (two volumes) =
Paget
Pedigree Resource File = PRF
Public Record Office [London] referring to original documents = PRO
Pipe Roll Society = PRS
The Royal Descent of 500 Immigrants (Roberts) = RD500
Royalty for Commoners = RFC
Royalty for Commoners, 2d ed. (Stuart) = RFC2
Recueil des Historiens de France = RHF
Rolls Series = RS
English Baronies: A Study of their Origin and Descent 1086-1327 (I.J.
Sanders) = Sanders
Society of Genealogists, based in London = SoG
Speculum = Sp
The Scot's Peerage = SP
Surties Series = SS
The Ancestor = TA
The American Genealogist = TAG
The Genealogist as published by Neil Thompson & the American Society
of Genealogists = TG
The Genealogist's Magazine, publication by SoG = TGM
The Plantagenet Connection, published by Kenneth Harper Finton = TPC
Victoria County Histories = VCH
Britain's Royal Families (Weir) = Weir
World Family Tree CD, [vol]:[num] (Broderbund) Caveat lector = WFT
Magna Charta (Wurts) = WMC
Peter Stewart wrote:
Thanks, Alex. Some time ago there was discussion about a list of
commonly
used abbreviations for the newsgroup, but I don't know what - if
anythng -
came of it. Perhaps there's a refernce file somewhere on Rootsweb?
Peter Stewart
-
Patricia Junkin
Re: William de Brus, d. before 13 June 1213
Dear Alex and Peter,
May I ask again whether the Robert de Brus who in 1212 holds Edenhal of the
King by the service of a knight. Henry the King gave the aforesaid land to
Peter de Brus, his predecessor.( A History of Cumberland. [Testa de
Nevill.])
.....and if the Robert cited " Robert IV: 26 August (obit 7) or 17 February
(obit 1) year uncertain, but ca 1226, certainly before 1237, and certainly
not 1245 as is usually quoted, following Douglas' Peerage"
is the same as the followling:
"1213, 13 Jun. Orders regarding King of Scots hostages: Rex. S. Com. Winton
etc. Mandamus .....et fil Willelmi de Veteri Ponte.... Petro de Brus de
fratre Roberti de Brus.."
If agreement, then was Peter the elder son of your:
William III: 16 July 1212 (obit 5)
Thank you very much in advance for this clarification.
Pat
----------
May I ask again whether the Robert de Brus who in 1212 holds Edenhal of the
King by the service of a knight. Henry the King gave the aforesaid land to
Peter de Brus, his predecessor.( A History of Cumberland. [Testa de
Nevill.])
.....and if the Robert cited " Robert IV: 26 August (obit 7) or 17 February
(obit 1) year uncertain, but ca 1226, certainly before 1237, and certainly
not 1245 as is usually quoted, following Douglas' Peerage"
is the same as the followling:
"1213, 13 Jun. Orders regarding King of Scots hostages: Rex. S. Com. Winton
etc. Mandamus .....et fil Willelmi de Veteri Ponte.... Petro de Brus de
fratre Roberti de Brus.."
If agreement, then was Peter the elder son of your:
William III: 16 July 1212 (obit 5)
Thank you very much in advance for this clarification.
Pat
----------
From: "Alex Maxwell Findlater" <maxwellfindlater@hotmail.com
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: William de Brus, d. before 13 June 1213
Date: Sat, Feb 5, 2005, 3:04 AM
Robert I: 11 May 1142 (obit 4)
Robert II: 17 February 1194 (obit 1), prefered to 26 August 1194 (obit
7)
William III: 16 July 1212 (obit 5)
Robert IV: 26 August (obit 7) or 17 February (obit 1) year uncertain,
but ca 1226, certainly before 1237, and certainly not 1245 as is
usually quoted, following Douglas' Peerage.
Robert V, the Competitor: 31 March 1295 (obit 2)
Robert VI: not buried at Guisborough, but died between 29 March and 4
April 1304.
The article was written while Duncan was preparing entries for the new
DNB (Dictionary of National Biography - that's for you, Peter- ) and
therefore contains a fair amount of biographical material, but as with
all Duncan's work, is not easy to read.