Line of descent from Charlemagne (Though Palmers)

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Stefan Ramonat

Line of descent from Charlemagne (Though Palmers)

Legg inn av Stefan Ramonat » 30 jan 2005 04:13:10

Hi,

Here is a (possible)line from Charlemagne to my 5th Great-Grandmother
that I pieced together from the One World Tree, the LDS site, and
searching on Google. Therefore, it may/probably is not accurate, so
could soemone verify/correct it? I only included dates for the
Palmers.

1. Charlemagne + Hildegarde Von Vinzgau Of Swabia
2. Pepin I + Bertha Of Toulouse
3. Bernard + Cunigunde
4. Pepin II + ?
5. Berenger De Bayeux ( AKA Pepin de Senlis de Valois) + ?
6. Poppa De Bayeux + Rollo Rognvalsson
7. William I Of Normandy + Sprote De Senlis Adela
8. Richard I Of Normandy + Gunnor Of Crepon
9. Richard II Of Normandy + Judith De Bretagne
10. Robert I Of Normandy + Harlette Herleva Von Falaisse
11. William I Of Normandy + Maud Of Flauders
12. Henry I (of England) + Matilda Editha Caenmoor
13. Geoffrey V Plantagenet + Matilda Beauclerc Of England
14. Henry II + Eleanor Of Aquitaine
15. John "Lackland" + Isabella Of Angoulême
16. Henry III + Eleanor Of Provence
17. Edward I + Eleanor Of Castile
18. Edward II + Isabella
19. Edward III + Philippa
20. John, Prince of England + Catherine De Roet
21. Henry Beaufort + Alice Fitzallen
22. Joan De Beaufort Plantagenet + Edward
Stradling
23. Henry Stradling + Elizabeth Verch William
Herbert
24. Thomas Stradling + Janet Matthew
25. Edward Stradling + Elizabeth Arundel
26. Catherine Stradling + Thomas Palmer
27. John Palmer (b. 14 Jul 1544) + Elizabeth Verney (b. 1558)
28. William Palmer (b. 1587) + Frances Blossom (b. 1598)
29. William Palmer(b. Abt. 1615) + Judith Feake (b. 1618)
30. William Palmer (b. 1659) + Mary Tyler (b. 1662)
31. William Palmer (b. 06 Nov 1694) + Rachel Fowler (b. 1702)
32. Edward Palmer (b. 1737) + Mary Reynolds (b. 03 Nov 1736)
33. Naomi Palmer (b. 22 Oct 1775) + Benjamin Irish (b. 1761)

Stefan Ramonat

Todd A. Farmerie

Re: Line of descent from Charlemagne (Though Palmers)

Legg inn av Todd A. Farmerie » 30 jan 2005 04:35:11

Stefan Ramonat wrote:
Hi,

Here is a (possible)line from Charlemagne to my 5th Great-Grandmother
that I pieced together from the One World Tree, the LDS site, and
searching on Google. Therefore, it may/probably is not accurate, so
could soemone verify/correct it? I only included dates for the
Palmers.

1. Charlemagne + Hildegarde Von Vinzgau Of Swabia
2. Pepin I + Bertha Of Toulouse
3. Bernard + Cunigunde
4. Pepin II + ?
5. Berenger De Bayeux ( AKA Pepin de Senlis de Valois) + ?

There was no Berenger AKA Pepin de Senlis de Valois. Pepin is thought
to have had a son Pepin (about whom little is known), but there is no
reason whatsoever to think he was the same as the Count Berenger given
by Dudo as father of Pepin. (While there are notable exceptions,
usually when you find someone given two different names [AKA] in such
sources it means someone is trying too hard - making distinct people
identical.) The identity of Berenger is still subject to much debate,
as is the reliability of Dudo, who names him as Poppa's father and
specifies that Poppa was William's mother.

6. Poppa De Bayeux + Rollo Rognvalsson

While late Orkney sagas make Hrolf son of Rognevald the conqueror of
Normandy, and hence identical to Rollo. However, aspects of this
attribution conflict with Dudo and other sources, and the saga, as it
stands seems to be erroneous.

7. William I Of Normandy + Sprote De Senlis Adela

Sprota was not of Senlis. This comes from Richard refering to Count
Bernard of Senlis as his uncle, but William also refered to Count
Bernard as uncle, so the connection did not come through Sprota, who was
a breton captive bedded by William. (It was another try at explaining
this same relationship - William calling Bernard his uncle, that gave
rise to the chimeric Berenger/Pepin of Senlis, Bernard being a
descendant of the elder Count Pepin. However, as William's wife (not
Sprota) was great-granddaughter of Pepin, one must wonder if this
relationship was by marriage.

8. Richard I Of Normandy + Gunnor Of Crepon

She was not of Crepon - Crepon appears to have been granted to her
brother _after_ Richard took up with her.

9. Richard II Of Normandy + Judith De Bretagne
10. Robert I Of Normandy + Harlette Herleva Von Falaisse

While it is of no particular consequence, in three successive
generations you have used the English Of, the French de, and the German
Von. Pick one and stick with it.

11. William I Of Normandy + Maud Of Flauders
12. Henry I (of England) + Matilda Editha Caenmoor

Caenmoor was the personal nickname of her father, not a surname.

13. Geoffrey V Plantagenet + Matilda Beauclerc Of England

Same here with Beauclerc

14. Henry II + Eleanor Of Aquitaine
15. John "Lackland" + Isabella Of Angoulême
16. Henry III + Eleanor Of Provence
17. Edward I + Eleanor Of Castile
18. Edward II + Isabella

of France

19. Edward III + Philippa

of Hainaut

20. John, Prince of England + Catherine De Roet


taf

Nathaniel Taylor

Re: Line of descent from Charlemagne (Though Palmers)

Legg inn av Nathaniel Taylor » 30 jan 2005 14:15:48

In article <f4e643ea.0501291913.6197b2@posting.google.com>,
sjramonat@gmail.com (Stefan Ramonat) wrote:

Hi,

Here is a (possible)line from Charlemagne to my 5th Great-Grandmother
that I pieced together from the One World Tree, the LDS site, and
searching on Google. Therefore, it may/probably is not accurate, so
could soemone verify/correct it? I only included dates for the
Palmers.


....

26. Catherine Stradling + Thomas Palmer
27. John Palmer (b. 14 Jul 1544) + Elizabeth Verney (b. 1558)
28. William Palmer (b. 1587) + Frances Blossom (b. 1598)
29. William Palmer(b. Abt. 1615) + Judith Feake (b. 1618)

....

Todd has already shown the problems with the earlier line as you have
it, but substitute lines might be found behind the Stradlings. The most
important text will be finding whether the parentage of the immigrant,
William Palmer of Stamford, Connecticut, is known, and whether it
connects in this way to a gentry great-grandmother. This is where most
such lines are false or unsupportable. This William Palmer is not in
Roberts (at least RD500).

Nat Taylor

a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/

minnman

Re: Line of descent from Charlemagne (Though Palmers)

Legg inn av minnman » 30 jan 2005 17:34:36

.....and is not in RD600.

Nathaniel Taylor wrote:
In article <f4e643ea.0501291913.6197b2@posting.google.com>,
sjramonat@gmail.com (Stefan Ramonat) wrote:

Hi,

Here is a (possible)line from Charlemagne to my 5th
Great-Grandmother
that I pieced together from the One World Tree, the LDS site, and
searching on Google. Therefore, it may/probably is not accurate,
so
could soemone verify/correct it? I only included dates for the
Palmers.


...

26. Catherine Stradling + Thomas Palmer
27. John Palmer (b. 14 Jul 1544) + Elizabeth Verney (b. 1558)
28. William Palmer (b. 1587) + Frances Blossom (b. 1598)
29. William Palmer(b. Abt. 1615) + Judith Feake (b. 1618)

...

Todd has already shown the problems with the earlier line as you have

it, but substitute lines might be found behind the Stradlings. The
most
important text will be finding whether the parentage of the
immigrant,
William Palmer of Stamford, Connecticut, is known, and whether it
connects in this way to a gentry great-grandmother. This is where
most
such lines are false or unsupportable. This William Palmer is not in

Roberts (at least RD500).

Nat Taylor

a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/

Hal Bradley

RE: Line of descent from Charlemagne (Though Palmers)

Legg inn av Hal Bradley » 31 jan 2005 18:01:02

Comments below

-----Original Message-----
From: Stefan Ramonat [mailto:sjramonat@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 7:13 PM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Line of descent from Charlemagne (Though Palmers)

Hi,

Here is a (possible)line from Charlemagne to my 5th Great-Grandmother
that I pieced together from the One World Tree, the LDS site, and
searching on Google. Therefore, it may/probably is not accurate, so
could soemone verify/correct it? I only included dates for the
Palmers.

1. Charlemagne + Hildegarde Von Vinzgau Of Swabia
2. Pepin I + Bertha Of Toulouse
<snip>
24. Thomas Stradling + Janet Matthew
25. Edward Stradling + Elizabeth Arundel
26. Catherine Stradling + Thomas Palmer
Thomas Palmer did have a son named John by his first wife Griselda. However,
it was his son William who married Elizabeth Verney. William was not
knighted. William & Elizabeth (Verney) Palmer had four children: Sir Thomas,
Katherine, William, and Sarah.

27. John Palmer (b. 14 Jul 1544) + Elizabeth Verney (b. 1558)

There is a break at this point. Claims that William Palmer was the son of
William Palmer and Elizabeth Verney were demonstrated to be erroneous by
Carlton Palmer [The Colonial Genealogist XII:3, p 115]. The bishop's
transcript at Parham shows that "Willm, younger sonne of William Palmer,
Esquire, ... was buried on 18 April 1585."

28. William Palmer (b. 1587) + Frances Blossom (b. 1598)
29. William Palmer(b. Abt. 1615) + Judith Feake (b. 1618)
30. William Palmer (b. 1659) + Mary Tyler (b. 1662)
31. William Palmer (b. 06 Nov 1694) + Rachel Fowler (b. 1702)
32. Edward Palmer (b. 1737) + Mary Reynolds (b. 03 Nov 1736)
33. Naomi Palmer (b. 22 Oct 1775) + Benjamin Irish (b. 1761)

Stefan Ramonat


This reminds me of the earlier suggestion for a comprehensive database that
puts to rest erroneous claims of royal ancestry.

Hal Bradley

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