Observations Please

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Patricia Junkin

Observations Please

Legg inn av Patricia Junkin » 28 jan 2005 16:11:02

Shall try again, hoping someone will be "re-"interested in this puzzle or
may quickly enlighten me. It is a continuing search for the William, father
to Roger of Lubbesthorpe and other unplaced La Zouches.

Who was the Comtesse de Boulogne MEHANTE who , I understand, married HENRI
I (1229-)? Could the Maud Mehante below be a faulty transcription or does it
leave room to suppose we have two women? It appears that Mohaut is cross
referenced Montealto in some sources, however, I find no such cross
intrepretation of Mohun and Mehant/Mehante. The Millicent who married Eudo
la Zouche is cross referenced Milsanda the wife of Eudo la Zuche, Milicent
de Monte Alto/Montealto/Montaldt/Mohaut, Milicent Cantilupe and according
to John P. Ravilious in a Gen-Med post, Millicent de Mohaut but not Maud or
Matilda. However I admit that the following could be Millicent Cantelowe,
since there is a de Braci connection through her great grandmother?

In 1302, a William or Walter la Zouche is the plaintiff in a Nuisance Writ
concerning Myllybras or Millisbray, river of (Ewe en) Gascony (Gascoyne) and
naming Mehante or Mehant, Maud or Matilda de, mother of plaintiff. The first
line of the writ: Ceo vous mostre Willame de la Souche, &c., qe Rauf de
Bracy, &c., atort ne sofre remuer le curs dil Ewe... Commentary &
Paraphrase.... the plaintiff as W.[illiam] de S.[ouche] and defendant as
R.[auf] de B.[racy] who wrongfully did not permit (soeffre) plaintiff to
restore (remener or remeuer) the water (leawe) ...to the detriment
(anussant) of the freehold of Maud de N [M]., mother of plaintiff W., whose
heir he is, since the first crossing etc.

In the 1303 Replevin Plea, William de Boys [Bosco/Bois/Bossu] is joined in
his attempt to recover property by Boys, John de or du, brother of W.;Boys,
William de, brother of John & feoffor Mohant, Milicent de, feoffee & mother
of W. de la Suche; Suche or Souche, William de la, son of Milicent & lessor
& avowee; Boys, W. de (same one?), lessee from W. de la Suche; Crombelde, W.
de, distrainor and Chamberleyn, Noel le, greatgreatgrandfather [Paynel the
Chamberlyne, ancestor of the de Boscos]. Certainly, Maud Lovell, wife of the
named William la Zouche was the daughter of Isabel de Bosco, however, in
what manner does Millicent come to her interest in the de Bosco property
and, as discussed previously, did she give Lubbesthorpe to Roger La Zouche
whose father is an unknown William?

If indeed there is a Maud Mehante apart from Milicent Mohaut, who is the
William, son of the former?

A further question.

1220 William la Zuche v. William de Wylburham and his wife Emma in Sheres.
[Pedes Finium or Fines Relating to the County of Surrey. SAC. 1894 p. 214.
Presumably to enter into a court petition, this William would have been born
1200 or before, being contemporary with the children of Roger and Margaret
Biset or of an earlier generation.
Between 1261 and 1263, a William la Zuche is sheriff in Surrey and Sussex.
In the 12thc. there is a grant at an annual rent of 1 lb. of pepper by (a)
Alan la Scuche and Alice de Belmeis his wife to (b) William de Alta Ripa for
homage and on remission to (a) of the right which (b) had in (a)'s woods
(nemoribus) of Forsistnd' (sic)[Forestside Sussex near Petworth , Nutborn
and Stopham, West Sussex???] In 1291 Witnesses to Yorkshire deeds for
ASKWITH and WESTON: Sir William de Stopham, and Thomas de AltaRipa ,
knights. In 1314 Alan la Zouche held Stopham and those of the Zouche name
remaining in this area well into the 1500's.

1261 Re-comission of John de Wauton of Surrey and Sussex with Guilford
Castle; as William la Zouche to whom the King gave the commission is ill,
indicating that William had at sometime prior been the Sheriff. 1262-3
Hundred of Bullingfield XXIII- William la Zouche (Suche) the Sheriff, took ,
by Exchequer summons 40 s. from the vill of Cuckfield (Cokkefeld) and did
not aquit the debtors..

The candidates for this William, based on my resources, are:

a. William who married Maud Howbridge who was born sometime before 1238,
however, was he born as early as 1200?

b. William la Zouche de Belmis who may or may not have died 1199 is styled
Wilielmi de Belmes, filius Alani la Zuch. If the charter to Lilleshull is
after 1199 [Yet to find a date, nevertheless, Philip of Belmeis made at
least two grants in the 12th century], then William de Belmeis was not
deceased in 1199. And, I am doubtful that William de Belmeis (la Zouche) is
the same as the William la Zuch who confirms grants made by his ancestors to
Swavesey, Camb. The William la Zuche in a confirmation to the monks of
Swavesey called ³Roger la Zouche his father and Alan la Zouche, earl of
Brittanny (son of Geoffrey) his grandfather, ² since William de Belmeis'
father was Alan la Zouche;

c. or perhaps the son of the Eudo la Zouche, brother of Alan la Zouche. On
25 December 1262,... the king is sending Alan la Zuche [s/o Roger and
Margaret Biset], justice of the forest on this side Trent, to the said march
commands the justice [Orreby] to deliver the castles of Edward, the king's
son, to wit, Chester, Beston and Shotwik, to Eudo la Zuche, brother of the
said Alan, without delay to keep in the name of the said Alan until his
arrival. The History of Leicestershire even states that Milicent married
Eudo the brother of Alan, however, inheritance suggests that the Eudo who
married Milicent was the son of Elena de Quincy.

I will appreciate any thoughts or corrections to my suppositions.
Thanks in advance.
Pat

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