Which year was the first one choosen to standardize the dati

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Bell HS

Which year was the first one choosen to standardize the dati

Legg inn av Bell HS » 27 jan 2005 22:41:02

Hi,

I do not know if this question was given an answer before...

Can someone tell me what was the year, where a consensus was adopted to use
standard years dating such year 1300-1301-1302 etc. instead of using the
numbering of reignal years refering to a king such as year 10 Edward (I do
not want to say Edward I, since nobody knew at the time he would be numbered
I because of subsequent Edward kings) or 5 EdwardII, etc.

So what was the first year being used (as a calendar I supposed) to date
events and following up on historical issues?

Thank you for your help.

Florent Coache
Napierville

Chris Phillips

Re: Which year was the first one choosen to standardize the

Legg inn av Chris Phillips » 27 jan 2005 22:55:28

Florent Coache wrote:
Can someone tell me what was the year, where a consensus was adopted to
use
standard years dating such year 1300-1301-1302 etc. instead of using the
numbering of reignal years refering to a king such as year 10 Edward (I do
not want to say Edward I, since nobody knew at the time he would be
numbered
I because of subsequent Edward kings) or 5 EdwardII, etc.

The transition was a gradual one in early modern times, rather than an
abrupt one. For some legal purposes, regnal years continued to be used until
relatively recently in the UK.

Chris Phillips

Bell HS

RE: Which year was the first one choosen to standardize the

Legg inn av Bell HS » 28 jan 2005 07:01:01

Hi Mr. Phillips,

I am quite surprised with your answer. I never realized the usage of a
¨commun calendar¨ was so recent. You are specifically mentionning UK in your
example.

Does that means that Columbus did no know it was the year 1492 when he
¨discover¨ America? How about the pilgrims of the Mayflower; Did they know
it was the year 1620? Did the Duke of Wellington and Napoleon Bonaparte knew
it was June 18th. 1815 when they met at Waterloo?

It is quite intriguing. Can you comment please?

Regards

Florent Coache
Napierville



-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Phillips [mailto:cgp@medievalgenealogy.org.uk]
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 4:55 PM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Which year was the first one choosen to standardize the
dating for years as we know them today


Florent Coache wrote:
Can someone tell me what was the year, where a consensus was adopted to
use
standard years dating such year 1300-1301-1302 etc. instead of using the
numbering of reignal years refering to a king such as year 10 Edward (I do
not want to say Edward I, since nobody knew at the time he would be
numbered
I because of subsequent Edward kings) or 5 EdwardII, etc.

The transition was a gradual one in early modern times, rather than an
abrupt one. For some legal purposes, regnal years continued to be used until
relatively recently in the UK.

Chris Phillips

norenxaq

Re: Which year was the first one choosen to standardize the

Legg inn av norenxaq » 28 jan 2005 07:21:01

Bell HS wrote:

Hi Mr. Phillips,

I am quite surprised with your answer. I never realized the usage of a
¨commun calendar¨ was so recent. You are specifically mentionning UK in your
example.

Does that means that Columbus did no know it was the year 1492 when he
¨discover¨ America? How about the pilgrims of the Mayflower; Did they know
it was the year 1620? Did the Duke of Wellington and Napoleon Bonaparte knew
it was June 18th. 1815 when they met at Waterloo?

It is quite intriguing. Can you comment please?

Regards

Florent Coache
Napierville

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Phillips [mailto:cgp@medievalgenealogy.org.uk]
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 4:55 PM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Which year was the first one choosen to standardize the
dating for years as we know them today

Florent Coache wrote:
Can someone tell me what was the year, where a consensus was adopted to
use
standard years dating such year 1300-1301-1302 etc. instead of using the
numbering of reignal years refering to a king such as year 10 Edward (I do
not want to say Edward I, since nobody knew at the time he would be
numbered
I because of subsequent Edward kings) or 5 EdwardII, etc.

The transition was a gradual one in early modern times, rather than an
abrupt one. For some legal purposes, regnal years continued to be used until
relatively recently in the UK.

Chris Phillips

coinage was standardized to the AD system in the 1500s

Peter Stewart

Re: Which year was the first one choosen to standardize the

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 28 jan 2005 07:29:34

""Bell HS"" <fcoache@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:LPBBKPKJHJILAHLCJJPHGENLGPAA.fcoache@sympatico.ca...
Hi Mr. Phillips,

I am quite surprised with your answer. I never realized the usage of a
¨commun calendar¨ was so recent. You are specifically mentionning UK in
your
example.

Does that means that Columbus did no know it was the year 1492 when he
¨discover¨ America? How about the pilgrims of the Mayflower; Did they know
it was the year 1620? Did the Duke of Wellington and Napoleon Bonaparte
knew
it was June 18th. 1815 when they met at Waterloo?

Chris was writing about the form of specifying dates in English official
documents using the count of regnal years from the accession of the current
king - anyone who could write one of these documents throughout the medieval
period would also have known quite well the year Anno Domini at the time.
The major variations that concerns historians are over when the calendar
year AD was held to begin at different times & in different places, but this
didn't affect awareness in the cases you mention.

Peter Stewart

Chris Phillips

Re: Which year was the first one choosen to standardize the

Legg inn av Chris Phillips » 28 jan 2005 10:44:15

Florent Coache wrote:
I am quite surprised with your answer. I never realized the usage of a
¨commun calendar¨ was so recent. You are specifically mentionning UK in
your
example.

Does that means that Columbus did no know it was the year 1492 when he
¨discover¨ America? How about the pilgrims of the Mayflower; Did they know
it was the year 1620? Did the Duke of Wellington and Napoleon Bonaparte
knew
it was June 18th. 1815 when they met at Waterloo?

It is quite intriguing. Can you comment please?


"A. D." dating was used before the advent of regnal years for legal
purposes, and continued to be used in some contexts (such as monastic
annals) in the period when regnal years were used in charters, wills and so
on. So there would have been awareness of the "year of the Incarnation".

Chris Phillips

Bell HS

RE: Which year was the first one choosen to standardize the

Legg inn av Bell HS » 28 jan 2005 22:21:01

Hi Mr. Phillips,

I would like to thanks all of you for your answers. It has been an education
to me.

Again, thank you for taking the time to address this topic for me.

Have a good week-end all.

Florent Coache
Napierville


-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Phillips [mailto:cgp@medievalgenealogy.org.uk]
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 4:44 AM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Which year was the first one choosen to standardize the
dating for years as we know them today


Florent Coache wrote:
I am quite surprised with your answer. I never realized the usage of a
¨commun calendar¨ was so recent. You are specifically mentionning UK in
your
example.

Does that means that Columbus did no know it was the year 1492 when he
¨discover¨ America? How about the pilgrims of the Mayflower; Did they know
it was the year 1620? Did the Duke of Wellington and Napoleon Bonaparte
knew
it was June 18th. 1815 when they met at Waterloo?

It is quite intriguing. Can you comment please?


"A. D." dating was used before the advent of regnal years for legal
purposes, and continued to be used in some contexts (such as monastic
annals) in the period when regnal years were used in charters, wills and so
on. So there would have been awareness of the "year of the Incarnation".

Chris Phillips

Gjest

RE: Which year was the first one choosen to standardize the

Legg inn av Gjest » 28 jan 2005 22:30:02

Maybe a better question is, "What is the FIRST document ever found that uses an AD dating method" ? And what year is stated therein?
Will

Peter Stewart

Re: Which year was the first one choosen to standardize the

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 28 jan 2005 23:50:46

<WJhonson@aol.com> wrote in message
news:72D9B956.60469788.007FA2F6@aol.com...
Maybe a better question is, "What is the FIRST document ever found that
uses an AD dating method" ? And what year is stated therein?

AD 532 - this was given by Dionysius Exiguus in the Easter table that he
compiled a few years earlier. The existing Eatser table at that time was
about to run out, and this had calculated the years from the era of
Diocletian (beginning in AD 285). However, Dionysius preferred not to
measure the years from a persecutor of Christians so he chose to make the
Incarnation the basis for numbering future years instead.

Peter Stewart

Peter Stewart

Stewart Baldwin

Re: Which year was the first one choosen to standardize the

Legg inn av Stewart Baldwin » 29 jan 2005 22:57:08

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 21:22:29 +0000 (UTC), WJhonson@aol.com wrote:

Maybe a better question is, "What is the FIRST document
ever found that uses an AD dating method" ? And what
year is stated therein?

Also of interest, although he was not the first to use the AD dating
system, is that Bede, writing in the first half of the eighth century,
used the method in his ecclesiastical history of the English people,
and the popularity of his work set the stage for the widespread use of
the method throughout western Europe. Thus, although the AD dating
system existed side-by-side with other dating methods for many years
(such as dating by years of the reign of a monarch), it was in common
use by the ninth century.

Stewart Baldwin

Gjest

Re: Which year was the first one choosen to standardize the

Legg inn av Gjest » 01 feb 2005 19:13:54

I would add that Dionysius used the year of Christ's birth as 753 AUC
(from the founding of the city of Rome, literally in Latin, Ab Urbe
Condita). We now know that he was at least off by 3 years since Herod
died in the year 750 AUC, and according to the gospels, the two people
overlapped by at least a year or more. We also know that he failed to
make a year zero (I BC is followed by 1 AD in his system) and that
throws off calculations.

So we know that the AD system was "invented" in 532 and used at least
by Bede in 731.

Peter Stewart

Re: Which year was the first one choosen to standardize the

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 01 feb 2005 22:13:17

<mhollick@mac.com> wrote in message
news:1107281634.035198.279080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
I would add that Dionysius used the year of Christ's birth as 753 AUC
(from the founding of the city of Rome, literally in Latin, Ab Urbe
Condita). We now know that he was at least off by 3 years since Herod
died in the year 750 AUC, and according to the gospels, the two people
overlapped by at least a year or more. We also know that he failed to
make a year zero (I BC is followed by 1 AD in his system) and that
throws off calculations.

No-one asked for a treatise on chonology or chronography. The original
question was specific, and Chris Phiilips gave a good answer. The subsequent
discussion was also specific and didn't require displaying knowledge of
information that had not been sought.

So we know that the AD system was "invented" in 532 and used at least
by Bede in 731.

No, you are wrong and clearly didn't read or understand my straightforward
note on this: Dionysius did not propose the AD system IN 532 but some years
before (I think from meory in 525) then APPLYING TO AD 532 and beyond.

If a reference librarian proposing himself or herself as a spokesperson for
the profession's usefulness can't be more relevant & exact, you have a
further answer as to why people may not consult them.

Peter Stewart

Gjest

Re: Which year was the first one choosen to standardize the

Legg inn av Gjest » 02 feb 2005 04:14:24

I am not and never said that I was a spokeperson for the the
profession's usefulness. I was asking precisely because I quit the
profession more than a year ago and was curious. You always have a
rough edge to your posts whether intended or not.

Peter Stewart

Re: Which year was the first one choosen to standardize the

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 02 feb 2005 04:33:17

Anonymous (mholl...@mac.com) wrote:

You always­ have a rough edge to your posts whether
intended or not.

Maybe you haven't been reading SGM for long, but "always" is quite
wrong and the roughness (in some of my posts) that you have rightly
identified is quite intentional.

In this instance you insulted Chris Phillips, who is far too much the
gentleman to take you to task and far too sensible to write about
things he doesn't know, and yet you added nothing of value to the
discussion about which you were making gratuitous observations under
cover of an extremely silly question.

Peter Stewart

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Which year was the first one choosen to standardize the

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 02 feb 2005 05:03:50

Yes, well Peter Stewart is acutely aware of the fact that his brain is
continuously undergoing a process of saponification [turning into soap]
so he is quite anxious and often strikes out at perceived "enemies" --
simply out of pain, Angst and frustration.

Just treat it as part of the Grand Entertainment on SGM -- don't take it
seriously.

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor

Anonymous (mholl...@mac.com) wrote:

You always­ have a rough edge to your posts whether
intended or not.

Gjest

Re: Which year was the first one choosen to standardize the

Legg inn av Gjest » 02 feb 2005 05:55:11

I officially and unequivocally state that I neither intended or meant
to insult Chris Phillips in any way whatsoever. Mea culpa, mea culpa,
mea maxima culpa.

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