Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres

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Leo van de Pas

Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 27 jan 2005 22:11:01

Dated 27 January 2005 the online Guardian has an article with as heading

Scion of traitors and warlords: why Bush is coy about his Irish links.
It is perhaps not the best of omen for US foreign affairs. Local historians in Wexford have discovered that George Bush is a descendant of Strongbow, the power hungry warlord who led the Norman invasion of Ireland thus heralding 800 years of mutual misery.
<snip>
But now Ann Griffin Bernstoff, an artist working on a tapestry to commemorate Ireland's Norman heritage, has discovered what she claims is the Bushs' missing Irish link.
Ms Griffin Bernstoff was researching Strongbow's son-in-law, William Marshal, when she discovered the connection. A descendant of Marshal married Anne Marbury Hutchinson, a famous 16th century religious dissenter who had already been linked to Mr. Bush.
<snip>
"It is one of those bizarre developments," she said. "We traced the Bush genealogy through a Republican source in Chicago and found it was correct. People here are absolutely shocked. I'm not sure what the wider reaction will be, Bush has not been seen as a great friend of the Irish.

And so on, the other ogre mentioned in this article is Dermot MacMurrough.

I am sure many people knew that George Bush descends from Richard de Clare, Earl of Pembroke "Strongbow". The link has been in my data base, probably, for ten years.
William Addams Reitwiesner probably will say the same thing "this is old news", and what about Gary Boyd Roberts? (Both descendants of Strongbow).

I have at present 155 gateway ancestors in my system who are descendants of Strongbow.

Descendants
on Gen-Med
Brice Clagett - Ian Fettes - John Steele Gordon - Gordon Hale Jr -Tony Hoskins - (Donald Lines Jacobus) Malinda Jones - Peter de Loriol - Doug McDonald - (George Andrews Moriarty) - Brom Nichol Jr - Tim Powys-Lybbe - John Ravilious William Addams Reitwiesner - Gary Boyd Roberts - Louise Staley -Nathaniel Taylor - Kelsey Williams

Writers
Lady Antonia Fraser - Graham Greene - Christopher Isherwood - Ted Morgan - Sir Walter Scott - P. G. Woodhouse

Movie world
Montgomery Clift - Walt Disney - Gloria Grahame - Audrey Hepburn - Steve McQueen - Paul Petersen - Randolph Scott - Brooke Shields - Rachel Ward

USA Presidents
1.George Washington - 3.Thomas Jefferson - 5.James Monreo - 6.John Quincy Adams - 9.William Henry Harrison - 18.Ulysses S Grant -19. Rutherford Hayes - 22.Grover Cleveland - 23 Benjamin Harrison -26 Theodore Roosevelt - 30. Calvin Coolidge - 32.Franklin Delano Roosevelt - 33.Harry S Truman - 38. Gerald Ford - 41.George Herbert Bush - 43. George Walker Bush

Royalty
Albert II King of Belgium - Margrethe II Queen of Denmark -Elizabeth II Queen of Great Britain - Rainier III, Prince of Monaco - Beatrix, Queen of The Netherlands - Harald V, King of Norway - Juan Carlos I, King of Spain -Carl XVI Gustaf, King of Sweden - Princess Michael of Kent -Mathilde d'Udekem d'Acoz - Queen Paola of Belgium - Lady Diana Spencer - Sarah Ferguson - Sophie Rhys-Jones - Camilla Parker-Bowles - Aga Khan IV

add to these
Wernher von Braun - Fridtjof Nansen - Bertrand Russell - Winston Churchill

and literally too many to mention

To continue this article :
The jury is out on whether Strongbow had a "conquering" gene that drove him to invade.
<snip>
Perhaps the most worrying question in New Ross is whether Mr. Bush now has a claim on Leinster. "Yes of course, he probably does," Ms Griffin Bernstorfs said. "But there are other families in the area who have a claim and neighbours and friends here would put up a pretty stiff fight."

What a lot of rot. Conquering gene? Bertrand Russell? Audrey Hepburn? Claim on Leinster? What garbage.

Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Left-Wing Guardian - Bush Descends From "Strongbow" -- <

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 27 jan 2005 22:31:02

Old News Indeed...

Intelligent People have learned to expect little but garbage and
codswallop from the knee-jerk, appeasing, Left-Wing _"Grauniad"_.

"Strongbow" probably has hundreds of thousands of descendants -- at the
very LEAST.

Anyone descended from Richard, 3rd Duke of York, is reportedly descended
from "Strongbow" -- Richard was the father of both Edward IV and Richard
III -- as well as other children.

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Vires et Honor

""Leo van de Pas"" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote in message
news:000801c504b4$65858240$c3b4fea9@email...
| Dated 27 January 2005 the online Guardian has an article with as
heading
|
| Scion of traitors and warlords: why Bush is coy about his Irish links.
| It is perhaps not the best of omen for US foreign affairs. Local
historians in Wexford have discovered that George Bush is a descendant
of Strongbow, the power hungry warlord who led the Norman invasion of
Ireland thus heralding 800 years of mutual misery.
| <snip>
| But now Ann Griffin Bernstoff, an artist working on a tapestry to
commemorate Ireland's Norman heritage, has discovered what she claims is
the Bushs' missing Irish link.
| Ms Griffin Bernstoff was researching Strongbow's son-in-law, William
Marshal, when she discovered the connection. A descendant of Marshal
married Anne Marbury Hutchinson, a famous 16th century religious
dissenter who had already been linked to Mr. Bush.
| <snip>
| "It is one of those bizarre developments," she said. "We traced the
Bush genealogy through a Republican source in Chicago and found it was
correct. People here are absolutely shocked. I'm not sure what the wider
reaction will be, Bush has not been seen as a great friend of the Irish.
|
| And so on, the other ogre mentioned in this article is Dermot
MacMurrough.
|
| I am sure many people knew that George Bush descends from Richard de
Clare, Earl of Pembroke "Strongbow". The link has been in my data base,
probably, for ten years.
| William Addams Reitwiesner probably will say the same thing "this is
old news", and what about Gary Boyd Roberts? (Both descendants of
Strongbow).
|
| I have at present 155 gateway ancestors in my system who are
descendants of Strongbow.
|
| Descendants
| on Gen-Med
| Brice Clagett - Ian Fettes - John Steele Gordon - Gordon Hale Jr -Tony
Hoskins - (Donald Lines Jacobus) Malinda Jones - Peter de Loriol - Doug
McDonald - (George Andrews Moriarty) - Brom Nichol Jr - Tim
Powys-Lybbe - John Ravilious William Addams Reitwiesner - Gary Boyd
Roberts - Louise Staley -Nathaniel Taylor - Kelsey Williams
|
| Writers
| Lady Antonia Fraser - Graham Greene - Christopher Isherwood - Ted
Morgan - Sir Walter Scott - P. G. Woodhouse
|
| Movie world
| Montgomery Clift - Walt Disney - Gloria Grahame - Audrey Hepburn -
Steve McQueen - Paul Petersen - Randolph Scott - Brooke Shields - Rachel
Ward
|
| USA Presidents
| 1.George Washington - 3.Thomas Jefferson - 5.James Monreo - 6.John
Quincy Adams - 9.William Henry Harrison - 18.Ulysses S Grant -19.
Rutherford Hayes - 22.Grover Cleveland - 23 Benjamin Harrison -26
Theodore Roosevelt - 30. Calvin Coolidge - 32.Franklin Delano
Roosevelt - 33.Harry S Truman - 38. Gerald Ford - 41.George Herbert
Bush - 43. George Walker Bush
|
| Royalty
| Albert II King of Belgium - Margrethe II Queen of Denmark -Elizabeth
II Queen of Great Britain - Rainier III, Prince of Monaco - Beatrix,
Queen of The Netherlands - Harald V, King of Norway - Juan Carlos I,
King of Spain -Carl XVI Gustaf, King of Sweden - Princess Michael of
Kent -Mathilde d'Udekem d'Acoz - Queen Paola of Belgium - Lady Diana
Spencer - Sarah Ferguson - Sophie Rhys-Jones - Camilla Parker-Bowles -
Aga Khan IV
|
| add to these
| Wernher von Braun - Fridtjof Nansen - Bertrand Russell - Winston
Churchill
|
| and literally too many to mention
|
| To continue this article :
| The jury is out on whether Strongbow had a "conquering" gene that
drove him to invade.
| <snip>
| Perhaps the most worrying question in New Ross is whether Mr. Bush now
has a claim on Leinster. "Yes of course, he probably does," Ms Griffin
Bernstorfs said. "But there are other families in the area who have a
claim and neighbours and friends here would put up a pretty stiff
fight."
|
| What a lot of rot. Conquering gene? Bertrand Russell? Audrey Hepburn?
Claim on Leinster? What garbage.
|
| Best wishes
| Leo van de Pas
| Canberra, Australia

Arnold Zuiderent

Re: Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres

Legg inn av Arnold Zuiderent » 28 jan 2005 11:21:01

It's a nice game to find far ancestors and to suggest genetic origin of
common characteristics. But if you look at the percentage of "blood", such
things are fully neglectable. You always find ancestors with just the
opposite character.

I found another interesting thing: if you find a far ancestor fighting in a
battle on one side (and you start perhaps mentally to support his side),
there is a big chance that you find also someone on the other side of the
battlefield. So I found both Hugbert of St-Maurice who was defeated in 864
by Conrad II of Auxerre near Orbe in Switzerland, and Conrad himself. This
is one of many examples, but I suppose you have the same experience, also
with members of opposite parties.

So perhaps you will find also victims of Strongbow under the ancestors of
George Bush.

Regards, Arnold Zuiderent
http://www.zuiderent.ch


----- Original Message -----
From: "Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 10:08 PM
Subject: Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres


Dated 27 January 2005 the online Guardian has an article with as heading

Scion of traitors and warlords: why Bush is coy about his Irish links.
It is perhaps not the best of omen for US foreign affairs. Local
historians in Wexford have discovered that George Bush is a descendant of

Strongbow, the power hungry warlord who led the Norman invasion of Ireland
thus heralding 800 years of mutual misery.
snip
But now Ann Griffin Bernstoff, an artist working on a tapestry to
commemorate Ireland's Norman heritage, has discovered what she claims is the

Bushs' missing Irish link.
Ms Griffin Bernstoff was researching Strongbow's son-in-law, William
Marshal, when she discovered the connection. A descendant of Marshal married

Anne Marbury Hutchinson, a famous 16th century religious dissenter who had
already been linked to Mr. Bush.
snip
"It is one of those bizarre developments," she said. "We traced the Bush
genealogy through a Republican source in Chicago and found it was correct.

People here are absolutely shocked. I'm not sure what the wider reaction
will be, Bush has not been seen as a great friend of the Irish.
And so on, the other ogre mentioned in this article is Dermot MacMurrough.

I am sure many people knew that George Bush descends from Richard de
Clare, Earl of Pembroke "Strongbow". The link has been in my data base,

probably, for ten years.
William Addams Reitwiesner probably will say the same thing "this is old
news", and what about Gary Boyd Roberts? (Both descendants of Strongbow).

I have at present 155 gateway ancestors in my system who are descendants
of Strongbow.

Descendants
on Gen-Med
Brice Clagett - Ian Fettes - John Steele Gordon - Gordon Hale Jr -Tony
Hoskins - (Donald Lines Jacobus) Malinda Jones - Peter de Loriol - Doug

McDonald - (George Andrews Moriarty) - Brom Nichol Jr - Tim Powys-Lybbe -
John Ravilious William Addams Reitwiesner - Gary Boyd Roberts - Louise
Staley -Nathaniel Taylor - Kelsey Williams
Writers
Lady Antonia Fraser - Graham Greene - Christopher Isherwood - Ted Morgan -
Sir Walter Scott - P. G. Woodhouse

Movie world
Montgomery Clift - Walt Disney - Gloria Grahame - Audrey Hepburn - Steve
McQueen - Paul Petersen - Randolph Scott - Brooke Shields - Rachel Ward

USA Presidents
1.George Washington - 3.Thomas Jefferson - 5.James Monreo - 6.John Quincy
Adams - 9.William Henry Harrison - 18.Ulysses S Grant -19. Rutherford

Hayes - 22.Grover Cleveland - 23 Benjamin Harrison -26 Theodore Roosevelt -
30. Calvin Coolidge - 32.Franklin Delano Roosevelt - 33.Harry S Truman - 38.
Gerald Ford - 41.George Herbert Bush - 43. George Walker Bush
Royalty
Albert II King of Belgium - Margrethe II Queen of Denmark -Elizabeth II
Queen of Great Britain - Rainier III, Prince of Monaco - Beatrix, Queen of

The Netherlands - Harald V, King of Norway - Juan Carlos I, King of
Spain -Carl XVI Gustaf, King of Sweden - Princess Michael of Kent -Mathilde
d'Udekem d'Acoz - Queen Paola of Belgium - Lady Diana Spencer - Sarah
Ferguson - Sophie Rhys-Jones - Camilla Parker-Bowles - Aga Khan IV
add to these
Wernher von Braun - Fridtjof Nansen - Bertrand Russell - Winston Churchill

and literally too many to mention

To continue this article :
The jury is out on whether Strongbow had a "conquering" gene that drove
him to invade.
snip
Perhaps the most worrying question in New Ross is whether Mr. Bush now has
a claim on Leinster. "Yes of course, he probably does," Ms Griffin

Bernstorfs said. "But there are other families in the area who have a claim
and neighbours and friends here would put up a pretty stiff fight."
What a lot of rot. Conquering gene? Bertrand Russell? Audrey Hepburn?
Claim on Leinster? What garbage.

Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

______________________________

Peter Stewart

Re: Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 28 jan 2005 13:01:04

""Arnold Zuiderent"" <azuiderent@dplanet.ch> wrote in message
news:006201c50521$e9a9b4c0$5e22e254@oemcomputer...

<snip>

So perhaps you will find also victims of Strongbow under the ancestors of
George Bush.

Indeed - and, no doubt, victims of George W Bush among the descendants of
Strongbow.

Peter Stewart

Gjest

Re: Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres

Legg inn av Gjest » 28 jan 2005 18:01:01

In a message dated 1/28/2005 7:12:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
p_m_stewart@msn.com writes:

Indeed - and, no doubt, victims of George W Bush among the descendants of
Strongbow.

Peter Stewart

Perhaps, but isn't it possible that the victims of George W. Bush would have
made more victims of their power in their own nation?


Gordon Hale
Grand Prairie, Texas

PS: Neither of these messages, yours or mine, have any place on this forum.

Gordon Banks

Re: Left-Wing Guardian - Bush Descends From "Strongbow" -- <

Legg inn av Gordon Banks » 28 jan 2005 18:01:02

I'll bet almost everyone in Ireland descends from Strongbow. The
Normans mixed blood with the Irish. I descend from Irish Hacketts.
Hackett is a Norman name, but by the 18th century they were thoroughly
Irish. I can't believe Strongbow didn't leave similar descendants.

John C. Brandon a.k.a sta

Re: Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres

Legg inn av John C. Brandon a.k.a sta » 28 jan 2005 18:01:22

PS: Neither of these messages, yours or mine, have any place on this
forum.


True, and they are equally tiresome.

Tony Hoskins

Re: Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres

Legg inn av Tony Hoskins » 28 jan 2005 18:21:01

"Victims". Absurd. And you're correct as to wrong forum.

GRHaleJr@aol.com> 01/28/05 08:54AM
In a message dated 1/28/2005 7:12:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

p_m_stewart@msn.com writes:

Indeed - and, no doubt, victims of George W Bush among the descendants
of
Strongbow.

Peter Stewart

Perhaps, but isn't it possible that the victims of George W. Bush would
have
made more victims of their power in their own nation?


Gordon Hale
Grand Prairie, Texas

PS: Neither of these messages, yours or mine, have any place on this
forum.

Peter Stewart

Re: Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 28 jan 2005 23:10:14

<GRHaleJr@aol.com> wrote in message news:79.3de2b45e.2f2bc82d@aol.com...
In a message dated 1/28/2005 7:12:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
p_m_stewart@msn.com writes:

Indeed - and, no doubt, victims of George W Bush among the descendants of
Strongbow.

Peter Stewart

Perhaps, but isn't it possible that the victims of George W. Bush would
have
made more victims of their power in their own nation?


Gordon Hale
Grand Prairie, Texas

PS: Neither of these messages, yours or mine, have any place on this
forum.

Nor does leaping to conclusions - who said that the victims of George W Bush
to whom I referred were in nations other than the USA?

I was in fact thinking of the people judicially murdered in Texas, by
capital punishment, under his governorship

Peter Stewart.

Peter Stewart

Re: Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 28 jan 2005 23:18:44

"John C. Brandon a.k.a starbuck95 a.k.a MRGIFFORD" <starbuck95@hotmail.com>
wrote in message
news:1106931682.354322.146250@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
PS: Neither of these messages, yours or mine, have any place on this
forum.

True, and they are equally tiresome.

This is mindless, witlessly self-serving, & anyway untrue - Gordon's post
and mine were about modern descendants of a medieval person, just like many
of Brandon's own disconnnected wafflings about post-medieval American
lineages.

The likelihood of a state governor in the US allowing his distant relatives
to be executed is just as much within the purview of SGM as practically any
post that Brandon has ever offered here.

Peter Stewart

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Left-Wing Guardian - Bush Descends From "Strongbow" -- <

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 28 jan 2005 23:47:37

"Judicial Murder" in Texas?

Twaddle....

What's left of Peter Stewart's mind is deteriorating fast -- and at an
accelerating pace.

Sad.

DSH

"Peter Stewart" <p_m_stewart@msn.com> wrote in message
news:aLyKd.138878$K7.44857@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
|
| <GRHaleJr@aol.com> wrote in message
news:79.3de2b45e.2f2bc82d@aol.com...
| > In a message dated 1/28/2005 7:12:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
| > p_m_stewart@msn.com writes:
| >
| > Indeed - and, no doubt, victims of George W Bush among the
descendants of
| > Strongbow.
| >
| > Peter Stewart
| >
| > Perhaps, but isn't it possible that the victims of George W. Bush
would
| > have
| > made more victims of their power in their own nation?
| >
| >
| > Gordon Hale
| > Grand Prairie, Texas
| >
| > PS: Neither of these messages, yours or mine, have any place on
this
| > forum.
|
| Nor does leaping to conclusions - who said that the victims of George
W Bush
| to whom I referred were in nations other than the USA?
|
| I was in fact thinking of the people judicially murdered in Texas, by
| capital punishment, under his governorship
|
| Peter Stewart.

Peter Stewart

Re: Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 29 jan 2005 00:09:46

""Tony Hoskins"" <hoskins@sonoma.lib.ca.us> wrote in message
news:s1fa5346.012@CENTRAL_SVR2...
"Peter Stewart" <p_m_stewart@msn.com> 01/28/05 02:10PM

GRHaleJr@aol.com> wrote in message
news:79.3de2b45e.2f2bc82d@aol.com...
In a message dated 1/28/2005 7:12:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
p_m_stewart@msn.com writes:

Indeed - and, no doubt, victims of George W Bush among the
descendants of
Strongbow.

Peter Stewart

Perhaps, but isn't it possible that the victims of George W. Bush
would
have
made more victims of their power in their own nation?


Gordon Hale
Grand Prairie, Texas

PS: Neither of these messages, yours or mine, have any place on
this
forum.

Nor does leaping to conclusions - who said that the victims of George W
Bush
to whom I referred were in nations other than the USA?

I was in fact thinking of the people judicially murdered in Texas, by
capital punishment, under his governorship

Peter Stewart.

---

Oh, PLEASE!! Talk about labored; talk about reaching! While we're at
(if we MUST be at it), I hold him personally responsible for the
tsunami, too. I'm sure I don't need to explain the connections. I'll
just say "Halliburton", and I'm sure you'll get the picture. Say no
more.

This is far beyond idiotic - capital punishment is deliberate killing, for
which the responsibility in US states lies ultimately with the governor who
can stay the act.

This has NOTHING to do with conspiracy theories. George W Bush doesn't hide
from that - or see a need to - so there's no sense trying to shield him with
loopy & specious comparisons to natural disasters or conspiracy theories.
People who approve of capital punishment owe it to themselves as much as to
the opposite point of view to keep a modicum of sense in their reactions.

Peter Stewart

Peter Stewart

Re: Left-Wing Guardian - Bush Descends From "Strongbow" -- <

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 29 jan 2005 00:15:48

"D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:skzKd.491$6k.5496@eagle.america.net...
"Judicial Murder" in Texas?

Twaddle....

What's left of Peter Stewart's mind is deteriorating fast -- and at an
accelerating pace.

Sad.

If you are not capable of engaging with what I had to say, Spencer, why must
you caper round the edges jingling your bells about my mental powers? No-one
is taken in by the antics of a mrer gibberer.

Peter Stewart

Doug McDonald

Re: Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres

Legg inn av Doug McDonald » 29 jan 2005 00:23:38

Peter Stewart wrote:


This is far beyond idiotic - capital punishment is deliberate killing, for
which the responsibility in US states lies ultimately with the governor who
can stay the act.


No. The responsibility lies in the acts of the person to
be judicially executed, and in no other person.

Anyone whatsoever can avoid the death penalty, by
not committing acts for which it is a possible punishment;
all these acts are illegal.

Doug McDonald

Peter Stewart

Re: Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 29 jan 2005 00:43:12

"Doug McDonald" <mcdonald@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:ctehhr$7fh$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu...
Peter Stewart wrote:


This is far beyond idiotic - capital punishment is deliberate killing,
for which the responsibility in US states lies ultimately with the
governor who can stay the act.


No. The responsibility lies in the acts of the person to
be judicially executed, and in no other person.

Anyone whatsoever can avoid the death penalty, by
not committing acts for which it is a possible punishment;
all these acts are illegal.

This supposed responsibility of the victims of capital punishment seems to
be a limited one in your view - limited to those who were actually guilty of
the crimes for which they are being punished by death, and who committed
them in jurisdictions practicing this barbarity in the first place.

Not much of a legal principle. And moral principles are universal anyway.

Peter Stewart

Tony Hoskins

Re: Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres

Legg inn av Tony Hoskins » 29 jan 2005 00:55:06

Nor does leaping to conclusions - who said that the victims of George
W
Bush
to whom I referred were in nations other than the USA?

I was in fact thinking of the people judicially murdered in Texas,
by
capital punishment, under his governorship

Peter Stewart.

---

Oh, PLEASE!! Talk about labored; talk about reaching! While we're at
(if we MUST be at it), I hold him personally responsible for the
tsunami, too. I'm sure I don't need to explain the connections. I'll
just say "Halliburton", and I'm sure you'll get the picture. Say no
more.

This is far beyond idiotic - capital punishment is deliberate killing,
for
which the responsibility in US states lies ultimately with the governor
who
can stay the act.

This has NOTHING to do with conspiracy theories. George W Bush doesn't
hide
from that - or see a need to - so there's no sense trying to shield him
with
loopy & specious comparisons to natural disasters or conspiracy
theories.
People who approve of capital punishment owe it to themselves as much
as to
the opposite point of view to keep a modicum of sense in their
reactions.

Peter Stewart

---

Dear Mr. Stewart,

Wrong place for this. Even humor (I am surprised I need to to tell you
my previous words were in jest) intended to lighten the mood failed. May
I recommend 1) taking this elsewhere if you must talk about it, or 2)
meditation? a long walk? "Om Mani Padme Hum"?

Yours, hopeful for regained equanimity,

Tony Hoskins
Santa Rosa, California

Tony Hoskins

Re: Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres

Legg inn av Tony Hoskins » 29 jan 2005 00:55:06

"Peter Stewart" <p_m_stewart@msn.com> 01/28/05 02:10PM

<GRHaleJr@aol.com> wrote in message
news:79.3de2b45e.2f2bc82d@aol.com...
In a message dated 1/28/2005 7:12:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
p_m_stewart@msn.com writes:

Indeed - and, no doubt, victims of George W Bush among the
descendants of
Strongbow.

Peter Stewart

Perhaps, but isn't it possible that the victims of George W. Bush
would
have
made more victims of their power in their own nation?


Gordon Hale
Grand Prairie, Texas

PS: Neither of these messages, yours or mine, have any place on
this
forum.

Nor does leaping to conclusions - who said that the victims of George W
Bush
to whom I referred were in nations other than the USA?

I was in fact thinking of the people judicially murdered in Texas, by
capital punishment, under his governorship

Peter Stewart.

---

Oh, PLEASE!! Talk about labored; talk about reaching! While we're at
(if we MUST be at it), I hold him personally responsible for the
tsunami, too. I'm sure I don't need to explain the connections. I'll
just say "Halliburton", and I'm sure you'll get the picture. Say no
more.

Leo van de Pas

OT capital punishment wasRe: Guardian - Bush descends from I

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 29 jan 2005 01:01:01

A government is responsible for the act of execution. The old testament says
an eye for eye, but the new testament says he who is without sins throw the
first stone.

The variation for reasons why a society (government) executes in itself
should give reasons to question the principle in the first place.

A man commits murder and therefor a government condones that another man (or
woman) commits murder only calls it execution?

How many times have innocent people been 'rightfully' executed? Lindy
Chamberlain in Australia would have been executed had the death penalty been
in place and all we could say Ooops we made a mistake?

If people commit dreadful crimes they should be taken out of society,
perhaps the 'devils Island' idea of the French wasn't so bad after all.
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia



----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug McDonald" <mcdonald@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres


Peter Stewart wrote:


This is far beyond idiotic - capital punishment is deliberate killing,
for
which the responsibility in US states lies ultimately with the governor
who
can stay the act.


No. The responsibility lies in the acts of the person to
be judicially executed, and in no other person.

Anyone whatsoever can avoid the death penalty, by
not committing acts for which it is a possible punishment;
all these acts are illegal.

Doug McDonald



Peter Stewart

Re: Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 29 jan 2005 04:34:21

""Tony Hoskins"" <hoskins@sonoma.lib.ca.us> wrote in message
news:s1fa5884.016@CENTRAL_SVR2...

Dear Mr. Stewart,

Wrong place for this. Even humor (I am surprised I need to to tell you
my previous words were in jest) intended to lighten the mood failed. May
I recommend 1) taking this elsewhere if you must talk about it, or 2)
meditation? a long walk? "Om Mani Padme Hum"?

No banana, Tony - your backtracking, as I take it to be, is every bit as
clumsy as your attempt at "lightening the mood", if that's what it really
was.

Jokes, in order to be in the least funny, need to hit the joker's mark.
Introducing nonsensical comparisons is neither hilarious nor even mildly
humorous.

I suggest you try a course of reading Mark Twain if you want to improve your
comic sensibilities.

Peter Stewart

John C. Brandon a.k.a sta

Re: Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres

Legg inn av John C. Brandon a.k.a sta » 29 jan 2005 05:30:37

I suggest you try a course of reading Mark >>Twain if you want­ to
improve your
comic sensibilities.

PMS

He certainly doesn't require your suggestion as to which of his
country's authors was a great humorist.

Now, if you could come up with an Australian author whom anybody would
regard as a comic genius ... well, that would be a feat!

Peter Stewart

Re: Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 29 jan 2005 05:44:23

"John C. Brandon a.k.a starbuck95 a.k.a MRGIFFORD" <starbuck95@hotmail.com>
wrote in message
news:1106973037.359962.185930@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
I suggest you try a course of reading Mark >>Twain if you want­ to
improve your
comic sensibilities.

PMS

He certainly doesn't require your suggestion as to which of his
country's authors was a great humorist.

Now, if you could come up with an Australian author whom anybody would
regard as a comic genius ... well, that would be a feat!

I never thought of comic genius as a distinctly national achievement, much
less an abiding possession - Mark Twain certainly was much better
appreciated outside the USA for most of his life, and not least in Australia
where he found adoring audiences.

Americans have lately discovered an Australian comic genius, although now
well past his prime, in Barry Humphreys. However, his literary writings - as
opposed to his stage & TV performances - have always been very dreary
indeed. The best of his Edna Everage and Sandy Stone routines up to the late
1970s were supremely funny.

Peter Stewart

Peter Stewart

Re: Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 29 jan 2005 05:49:13

"Peter Stewart" <p_m_stewart@msn.com> wrote in message
news:HwEKd.139215$K7.91010@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
"John C. Brandon a.k.a starbuck95 a.k.a MRGIFFORD"
starbuck95@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106973037.359962.185930@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
I suggest you try a course of reading Mark >>Twain if you want­ to
improve your
comic sensibilities.

PMS

He certainly doesn't require your suggestion as to which of his
country's authors was a great humorist.

Now, if you could come up with an Australian author whom anybody would
regard as a comic genius ... well, that would be a feat!

I just realised that the chevron line markings didn't appear on quoted text
in my reply to this post - my settings appear to have been overridden by
defaults in the original message.

All above this was written by John Brandon, with my reply below.

I never thought of comic genius as a distinctly national achievement, much
less an abiding possession - Mark Twain certainly was much better
appreciated outside the USA for most of his life, and not least in
Australia where he found adoring audiences.

Americans have lately discovered an Australian comic genius, although now
well past his prime, in Barry Humphreys. However, his literary writings -
as opposed to his stage & TV performances - have always been very dreary
indeed. The best of his Edna Everage and Sandy Stone routines up to the
late 1970s were supremely funny.

Something peculiar also happens with some (but not all) posts from Spencer
Hines lately, to do with character sets from memory. Strange - I suppose
Spencer has several character sets of hsi own to choose from, depending on
the phases of the moon perhaps, but why he can't settle on one that is
useful for posting I can't imagine.

Peter Stewart

Gjest

Re: Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres

Legg inn av Gjest » 29 jan 2005 07:10:13

Mark Twain certainly was much b­etter appreciated outside the USA
for most of his life,


Not true.

The best of his Edna Everage and Sandy Stone routine­s up to the
late 1970s were supremely funny


Doubtful...

Peter Stewart

Re: Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 29 jan 2005 08:34:36

"<starbuck95>" <starbuck95@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106979013.599343.273780@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Peter Stewart wrote:
Mark Twain certainly was much b­etter appreciated outside the USA
for most of his life,

Not true.

It IS true, whether you like it or not, whether you know it or not - read
the standard biographies, or if you can't watch the excellent Ken Burns TV
documentary. Why do you think he needed to go touring the world when he had
lost his fortune? Why do you think he wore Oxford doctoral robes to his
daughter's wedding?

The best of his Edna Everage and Sandy Stone routine­s up to the
late 1970s were supremely funny

Doubtful...

Ah, such devastating wit and acute analysis. I'm sure the many admirers of
Humphreys throughout the world will all be reassessing their appreciation in
the light of one glib word from John Brandon, whoi clearly doesn't know
enough about it even to have made up his mind.

Peter Stewart

Gordon Banks

Re: Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres

Legg inn av Gordon Banks » 29 jan 2005 21:10:02

On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 23:09 +0000, Peter Stewart wrote:

This is far beyond idiotic - capital punishment is deliberate killing, for
which the responsibility in US states lies ultimately with the governor who
can stay the act.

Peter Stewart


Apologies for keeping this OT going, but the problem with capital
punishment isn't that it is deliberate killing. Some people like the
Nazi bigwigs NEEDED killing. The problem is the judicial system is too
faulty to keep from executing innocent people.
--
Gordon Banks <geb@gordonbanks.com>

Tony Hoskins

Re: Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres

Legg inn av Tony Hoskins » 29 jan 2005 21:30:02

Gordon Banks <geb@gordonbanks.com> 01/29/05 11:36AM
On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 23:09 +0000, Peter Stewart wrote:


This is far beyond idiotic - capital punishment is deliberate
killing, for
which the responsibility in US states lies ultimately with the
governor who
can stay the act.

Peter Stewart


Apologies for keeping this OT going, but the problem with capital
punishment isn't that it is deliberate killing. Some people like the
Nazi bigwigs NEEDED killing. The problem is the judicial system is
too
faulty to keep from executing innocent people.
--
Gordon Banks <geb@gordonbanks.com>

---

I find the reasoning flawed: because occasional mistakes can be made in
a legal remedy, the entire remedy itself must be abandoned? It is not a
reach to test this approach in a few other settings.

1) Some people die in car accidents. Outlaw cars.
2) Some innocent people died in the bombing of Berlin. Should have
stopped the bombing during WW2.
3) Some innocent people are convicted of pedophilia. Stop trying such
cases.

Tony Hoskins

Matthew Rockefeller

Re: Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres

Legg inn av Matthew Rockefeller » 03 feb 2005 09:26:13

I wonder if the victim of Laura Bush's bad driving/murdering escapade
was a descendant as well.

The possibilities are endless!

Matthew

Gjest

Re: Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres

Legg inn av Gjest » 04 feb 2005 04:19:27

Peter Stewart wrote:

Nor does leaping to conclusions - who said that the victims of
George W Bush
to whom I referred were in nations other than the USA?

I was in fact thinking of the people judicially murdered in Texas, by

capital punishment, under his governorship

Peter Stewart.

Not to be outdone, in California we just executed a retarded man. Next
it will be a contest to kill younger and younger children. To quote a
local right-winger: if they weren't guilty of *something*, they
wouldn't have been arrested.

Peter Stewart

Re: Guardian - Bush descends from Irish Ogres [OT, JUNK]

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 04 feb 2005 05:16:43

Not to be outdone, in California we just executed a retarded man.
Next it will be a contest to kill younger and younger children. To
quote a local right-winger: if they weren't guilty of *something*,
they wouldn't have been arrested.

Wasn't Governor Schwarzenegger arrested once, or were his offenses of
drug abuse merely self-confessed?

I'm sorry if he is proving to be as deficient in the qualities of
clemency & mercy as he was in honesty as a sportsman, and as some of
his gubernatorial counterparts in all respects.

Peter Stewart

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