Lea, Baron of Kendall

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
Gjest

Lea, Baron of Kendall

Legg inn av Gjest » 25 jan 2005 15:26:59

Hi all

According to Knights of Edward I, ed. Rev, C Moor, The Harleian
Society, (1929), Vol. I, p 39, William de Lea (b abt 1237) was Baron of
Kendall.

The early descent of this barony is well known from the Lords of
Workington to William and then Gilbert de Lancaster. The Lancaster line
ended in an heiress married to Gilbert fitz Roger FitzReinfrid who dies
bef 6 May 1220.

Does anyone know how it came to William de Lea? William de Lea
apparently married Clemence Banaster and had a daughter Sybil.
Doug Smith

Gjest

Re: Lea, Baron of Kendall

Legg inn av Gjest » 26 jan 2005 02:54:17

alden@mindspring.com wrote:
Hi all

According to Knights of Edward I, ed. Rev, C Moor, The Harleian
Society, (1929), Vol. I, p 39, William de Lea (b abt 1237) was Baron
of
Kendall.

The early descent of this barony is well known from the Lords of
Workington to William and then Gilbert de Lancaster. The Lancaster
line
ended in an heiress married to Gilbert fitz Roger FitzReinfrid who
dies
bef 6 May 1220.

Does anyone know how it came to William de Lea? William de Lea
apparently married Clemence Banaster and had a daughter Sybil.

Doug Smith

Sorry, I reviewed the KEI account and it says nothing about the Barony
of Kendall. Robert Banaster's daughter did marry a "Wm. du Lee", but
nothing more is said about him.

Doug

Chris Dickinson

Re: Lea, Baron of Kendall

Legg inn av Chris Dickinson » 26 jan 2005 04:50:02

Doug wrote:

<snip>
Sorry, I reviewed the KEI account and it says nothing about the Barony
of Kendall. Robert Banaster's daughter did marry a "Wm. du Lee", but
nothing more is said about him.


Possibly this account will help:

http://www.stevebulman.f9.co.uk/cumbria/kendal.html


Chris

Chris Dickinson

Re: Lea, Baron of Kendall

Legg inn av Chris Dickinson » 26 jan 2005 05:20:02

I wrote:

Doug wrote:

snip
Sorry, I reviewed the KEI account and it says nothing about the Barony
of Kendall. Robert Banaster's daughter did marry a "Wm. du Lee", but
nothing more is said about him.


Possibly this account will help:

http://www.stevebulman.f9.co.uk/cumbria/kendal.html



I had been assuming that the Wm du Lee you mention was a corruption of the
William de Lindesay mentioned in the 1851 account; but on a further glance I
think the answer may be that Lee is a corruption of Lumley Fee.

Chris

Gjest

Re: Lea, Baron of Kendall

Legg inn av Gjest » 26 jan 2005 14:10:34

Chris Dickinson wrote:
I wrote:

Doug wrote:

snip
Sorry, I reviewed the KEI account and it says nothing about the
Barony
of Kendall. Robert Banaster's daughter did marry a "Wm. du Lee",
but
nothing more is said about him.


Possibly this account will help:

http://www.stevebulman.f9.co.uk/cumbria/kendal.html



I had been assuming that the Wm du Lee you mention was a corruption
of the
William de Lindesay mentioned in the 1851 account; but on a further
glance I
think the answer may be that Lee is a corruption of Lumley Fee.

Chris


Thanks Chris

I printed it out and will read carefully on the plane. William de Lea
appears to be the son of Henry de Lea of Lea Hall, Preston Lancs. High
Sheriff of Lancs in 1280's. Kendall ref. may have come from Betham's
Hoghton of Hoghton Tower which I haven't seen in years (and i fear my
notes are very poor from back then). If Lea (or Lee) is a corruption of
'Lumley Fee' (although not clear to me how early it was called
this)then it could be very interesting to examine how it came to this
family. Could have been one of the apparently many escheats.
Will try to delve deeper as i get time.

Doug

Todd A. Farmerie

Re: Lea, Baron of Kendall

Legg inn av Todd A. Farmerie » 26 jan 2005 14:28:52

alden@mindspring.com wrote:
Chris Dickinson wrote:

I had been assuming that the Wm du Lee you mention was a corruption

of the

William de Lindesay mentioned in the 1851 account; but on a further

glance I

think the answer may be that Lee is a corruption of Lumley Fee.

I printed it out and will read carefully on the plane. William de Lea
appears to be the son of Henry de Lea of Lea Hall, Preston Lancs. High
Sheriff of Lancs in 1280's. Kendall ref. may have come from Betham's
Hoghton of Hoghton Tower which I haven't seen in years (and i fear my
notes are very poor from back then). If Lea (or Lee) is a corruption of
'Lumley Fee' (although not clear to me how early it was called
this)then it could be very interesting to examine how it came to this
family. Could have been one of the apparently many escheats.
Will try to delve deeper as i get time.

While first appearances can be deceptive, in this case I see no
reason to suggest elaborate derivations, rather than simply
coming from the AS "lega", as did most examples of Lea, Lee,
Legh, Leigh, as well as -ly, -legh, -ley and -lee endings.

taf

Gjest

Re: Lea, Baron of Kendall

Legg inn av Gjest » 26 jan 2005 14:45:36

Todd A. Farmerie wrote:
alden@mindspring.com wrote:
Chris Dickinson wrote:

I had been assuming that the Wm du Lee you mention was a corruption

of the

William de Lindesay mentioned in the 1851 account; but on a further

glance I

think the answer may be that Lee is a corruption of Lumley Fee.

I printed it out and will read carefully on the plane. William de
Lea
appears to be the son of Henry de Lea of Lea Hall, Preston Lancs.
High
Sheriff of Lancs in 1280's. Kendall ref. may have come from
Betham's
Hoghton of Hoghton Tower which I haven't seen in years (and i fear
my
notes are very poor from back then). If Lea (or Lee) is a
corruption of
'Lumley Fee' (although not clear to me how early it was called
this)then it could be very interesting to examine how it came to
this
family. Could have been one of the apparently many escheats.
Will try to delve deeper as i get time.

While first appearances can be deceptive, in this case I see no
reason to suggest elaborate derivations, rather than simply
coming from the AS "lega", as did most examples of Lea, Lee,
Legh, Leigh, as well as -ly, -legh, -ley and -lee endings.

taf

Thanks Todd
I agree - it a very long shot. However, delving is fun.

Doug

Chris Dickinson

Re: Lea, Baron of Kendall

Legg inn av Chris Dickinson » 26 jan 2005 15:50:02

Todd Farmerie wrote:


While first appearances can be deceptive, in this case I see no
reason to suggest elaborate derivations, rather than simply
coming from the AS "lega", as did most examples of Lea, Lee,
Legh, Leigh, as well as -ly, -legh, -ley and -lee endings.


Yes, not knowing anything about the barony I was only guessing.

It struck me as odd though that the OP seemed to be saying that a William du
Lea was, in an unknown way, Baron of Kendal; and the article was saying that
the barony was inherited by Lumley. On the other hand, the dates don't seem
to be quite right for that; and, if there is a solid identification with Lea
Hall, then the idea is a non-starter.

Chris

Chris Dickinson

Re: Lea, Baron of Kendall

Legg inn av Chris Dickinson » 27 jan 2005 21:21:01

I was at The National Archives this morning and took the opportunity to
check out the Barony of Kendal in the Library. As my interests are in a
different century and on the other side of the Lake District, and my time
was limited, I didn't explore the matter too deeply; but I did photocopy a
family tree that I'm happy to forward to anyone who wants it (the edges are
cut off - but anyone could easily enough get TNA to do a proper job on it;
and I would have to cut it up further as it is on A3 and my scanner is only
A4!).

I was wrong to suggest that there might be a connection between Lea and
Lumley - different generations.

I was looking at secondary sources about the Barony and de Lancaster family,
which contained a lot of transcribed material that I didn't delve into - a
quick look at indexes didn't suggest any resolution to the problems I'm
going to mention below.

There is an article in the Transactions of the Cumberland & Westmorland
Antiquarian & Archaeological Society, NS, Vol 8, 1908, pp 84-94, by John F
Curwen on 'Kendal Castle'. This has a large family tree. I have no idea of
its accuracy or how it fits in with modern research.

This has Ketel son of Eldred. Children William and Orme, with a dotted line
to Gilbert de Furessio. He married Godith and their children were William
and Roger.

William was 'Governor of Lancaster Castle and known as de Lancaster I d.
before 1170' and married Gundreda, daughter of Reger de Newburg Earl of
Warwick (died 1153). Their children are listed as William de Lancaster II
(d. 1184), Warine (died about 1190), Agneta, Jordan and Avice. One problem
is that Warine and her child is in italics, and no-one else on the chart
is - I don't know what that is meant to suggest (illegitimacy? or a
suspicious source?).

[Warine, Agneta, Jordan and Avice sound like the names you would get on
'Footballers Wives' :-)]

Warine had a son Henry de Lee, living 1208, 1228. All in italics. That's the
second problem - no mention of William du Lea.

That's probably not wonderfully helpful, but at least provides a clue about
the Lee/Lea connection.

Chris

Gjest

Re: Lea, Baron of Kendall

Legg inn av Gjest » 28 jan 2005 01:25:10

Chris Dickinson wrote:
I was at The National Archives this morning and took the opportunity
to
check out the Barony of Kendal in the Library. As my interests are in
a
different century and on the other side of the Lake District, and my
time
was limited, I didn't explore the matter too deeply; but I did
photocopy a
family tree that I'm happy to forward to anyone who wants it (the
edges are
cut off - but anyone could easily enough get TNA to do a proper job
on it;
and I would have to cut it up further as it is on A3 and my scanner
is only
A4!).

I was wrong to suggest that there might be a connection between Lea
and
Lumley - different generations.

I was looking at secondary sources about the Barony and de Lancaster
family,
which contained a lot of transcribed material that I didn't delve
into - a
quick look at indexes didn't suggest any resolution to the problems
I'm
going to mention below.

There is an article in the Transactions of the Cumberland &
Westmorland
Antiquarian & Archaeological Society, NS, Vol 8, 1908, pp 84-94, by
John F
Curwen on 'Kendal Castle'. This has a large family tree. I have no
idea of
its accuracy or how it fits in with modern research.

This has Ketel son of Eldred. Children William and Orme, with a
dotted line
to Gilbert de Furessio. He married Godith and their children were
William
and Roger.

William was 'Governor of Lancaster Castle and known as de Lancaster I
d.
before 1170' and married Gundreda, daughter of Reger de Newburg Earl
of
Warwick (died 1153). Their children are listed as William de
Lancaster II
(d. 1184), Warine (died about 1190), Agneta, Jordan and Avice. One
problem
is that Warine and her child is in italics, and no-one else on the
chart
is - I don't know what that is meant to suggest (illegitimacy? or a
suspicious source?).

[Warine, Agneta, Jordan and Avice sound like the names you would get
on
'Footballers Wives' :-)]

Warine had a son Henry de Lee, living 1208, 1228. All in italics.
That's the
second problem - no mention of William du Lea.

That's probably not wonderfully helpful, but at least provides a clue
about
the Lee/Lea connection.

Chris


Actually Chris, that is extremely interesting. William de Lea's father
was supposedly Henry de Lea, High Sheriff of Lancashire who would have
been alive in 1228. Not sure Warine is female could be Warin.

Doug

Svar

Gå tilbake til «soc.genealogy.medieval»