d'Auvergne -> Toulouse or Arles

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Markus Welschhoff

d'Auvergne -> Toulouse or Arles

Legg inn av Markus Welschhoff » 24 jan 2005 00:21:01

Who knows the mother of Ermegarde d'Auvergne, wife of Eudes II de Blois. She was born about 995 and died on march 1040. I think, her father was Robert II d'Auvergne, but was her mother Ermegarde/Humberga of Toulouse or of Arles? And why the two names Ermegarde and Humberga, is she the same?

Thank you for answer.

Bye, MW
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Gjest

Re: d'Auvergne -> Toulouse or Arles

Legg inn av Gjest » 24 jan 2005 09:06:55

"Markus Welschhoff" wrote:
Who knows the mother of Ermegarde d'Auvergne, wife of Eudes II de
Blois. She was born about 995 and died on march 1040. I think, her

father was Robert II d'Auvergne, but was her mother Ermegarde/Humberga
of Toulouse or of Arles? And why the two names Ermegarde and Humberga,
is she the same?
Thank you for answer.

Bye, MW
______________________________________________________________
Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS!
Jetzt bei WEB.DE FreeMail: http://f.web.de/?mc=021193



In a post by Todd Farmerie (see below), the mother of Ermengarde
d'Auvergne would evidently be Ermengarde de Brioude, daughter of
Étienne de Brioude, Count of Gévaudan, and Adele d'Anjou, who married
Robert III, Count d'Auvergne, d. 1032. (IIRC, Weis has no, or a
different ancestry). Ermengarde/Humberga are simply variants of the
same name, I'd guess the former being of french derivation; the latter,
german..... There is more information, esp on the De Brioude ancestry,
in the archives....

Hope this helps,

Roger




From: Todd A. Farmerie (farmerie@interfold.com)
Subject: Re: Adelaide d'Anjou (was Tiburge d'Orange)
Date: 2000/07/30

<snip>

Who are ALL of her ["her" referring to Adele d'Anjou, who married
three times and was the grandmother of Ermengarde d'Auvergne] children

(with the correct fathers)?

Stasser gives her the following:

by Etienne de Brioude:
1. Pons de Gevaudan
2. Bertrand de Brioude
3. Etienne de Brioude
4. Ermengarde/Humberge, Countess of Auvergne
5?. daughter, wife of Herbert of Troyes

by Raymond:
6. Guillaume Taillefer
7?. Toda/Adelaide, Countess of Besalu (I question this one)
8?. Letgarde

by Guillaume II of Provence:
9. Guillaume III
10. Constance, Queen of France

taf

JBunot

Re: d'Auvergne -> Toulouse or Arles

Legg inn av JBunot » 24 jan 2005 21:14:22

In his recent La Noblesse du Midi Carolingien,Christian Settipani has a
slightly different version for the ancestry of Ermengarde d’Auvergne,
comtesse of Blois. You will notice that Settipani proposes the existence
of another new daughter of Guillaume le Pieux, comte d’Auvergne and duc
d’Aquitaine, an Engelberge, married to Dalmatius, vicomte et abbe de
Brioude. I am not summarizing his (rather convincing though
circumstancial) argument in favor of this hypothesis because of its
exceptional density and invite you simply to read it and make yourself an
opinion. It is based (as usual) on onomastics and also the transmission of
important properties in Auvergne. Jean Bunot.

It goes like this :

1. Ermengarde d’Auvergne (+ 1042), m. 1005, Eudes II, comte de Blois,
Chartres, Tours, Troyes, Meaux et Sancerre (+ 1037)

2. Robert I, comte d’Auvergne 1010/16 (+ 1022/43)

3. m. c. 990/95, Ermengarde de Gevaudan (+ after 1010), half-sister of
Constance d’Arles, queen of France

4. Guillaume, vicomte de Clermont, comte d’Auvergne 989 (+ 1003/13)

5. Humberge (+ 1016)

6. Etienne, comte de Gevaudan, vicomte-abbé de Brioude (+ c. 975)

7. m. c. 970, Adelaide d’Anjou (+ after 1026)

8. Robert II, vicomte de Clermont 962 (+ 962/74)

9. Engelberge de Brioude, dame en partie de Beaumont (+ after 962)

12. Bertrand, vicomte de Gevaudan 925/39 (+939/54)

13. Emilgarde de Brioude

14. Foulques II le Bon, comte d’Anjou (+ 958)

15. m. 937, Gerberge de Gatinais (+ c. 952)

16. Robert I, vicomte de Clermont 915/62

17. Adalgarde/Aldearde

18. Dalmatius, vicomte-abbe de Brioude 922/47 (+ 947/54)

19. Engelberge (possibly d’Auvergne) (+ after 962)

24. Heraclius, seigneur d’Antoing 892/926

25. Goda

26. Etienne, vicomte-abbe de Brioude 903

27. Ermengarde, sister of a Dalmatius, noble d’Auvergne

32. Eustorge, noble d’Auvergne

33. Arsinde de Velay

34. Hubert, noble d’Auvergne

35. ép. Ermengarde

36. Etienne, vicomte-abbe de Brioude 903

37. Ermengarde, sister of a Dalmatius, noble d’Auvergne

38. possibly Guillaume le Pieux, comte d’Auvergne et de Macon, duc
d’Aquitaine, abbe laique de Brioude (+ 918)

39. possibly Engelberge de Provence

48. Vivien, seigneur d’Antoing (+ after 898)

52. Rigaud, noble d’Auvergne (+ before 903)

53. Ne... de Velay

66. Armand, vicomte de Velay 895 (+ c. 913)

67. Bertilde d’Antoing 895 (+ 913/26)

72. Rigaud, noble d’Auvergne (+ before 903)

73. Ne... de Velay

76. Bernard II Plantevelue, comte d’Auvergne et de Toulouse, marquis de
Gothie (+ after 883)

77. ép. Ermengarde d’Auvergne

78. Boson, roi de Provence

79. Ermengarde d’Italie

96. Berteland, noble d’Auvergne

97. Viviana

106. Claudius, vicomte de Velay 877/900 (+ c. 900)

107. Engelmode

132. Claudius, vicomte de Velay 877/900 (+ c. 900)

133. Engelmode

134. Berteland, noble d’Auvergne

135. Viviana

146. Claudius, vicomte de Velay 977/900 (+ c. 900)

147. Engelmode

152. Bernard, comte d’Auvergne, marquis de Gothie 824/44, s/o saint
Guillaume, comte et duc de Toulouse and Cunegonde

153. Dhuoda/Doda de Gascogne

154. Bernard, comte d’Auvergne (+ 868)

155. Liedgarde (+ after 868)

156. Buvinus, comte de Metz, abbe laique de Gorze 842/62

157. Ne... d/o Boson le Vieux, comte d’Arles et en Italie

158. Louis II, roi d’Italie, empereur

159. Engelberge

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