Sir Otto Grandson

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Sir Otto Grandson

Legg inn av Gjest » 22 jan 2005 19:41:02

Sir Otto Grandson, one of the few medieval figures in the West who achieved
near Centenarian age, could he have been called French or Savoyard? Or was he
in essence multi-national?
regards
Peter de Loriol

Tim Powys-Lybbe

Re: Sir Otto Grandson

Legg inn av Tim Powys-Lybbe » 22 jan 2005 20:00:48

In message of 22 Jan, PDeloriol@aol.com wrote:

Sir Otto Grandson, one of the few medieval figures in the West who achieved
near Centenarian age,

I have yet to find a birth date for either of the Otez de Grandisons
that I know about, so was unaware of his longevity. Can you provide
more details?

could he have been called French or Savoyard? Or was he in essence
multi-national?

My sources think his forbears were Swiss.

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

Gjest

Re: Sir Otto Grandson

Legg inn av Gjest » 22 jan 2005 20:51:02

In a message dated 22/01/2005 19:10:39 GMT Standard Time, tim@powys.org
writes:

My sources think his forbears were Swiss.
Switzerland did not exist at that time! Otho Sire de Grandson was born c
1238 ( this is discussed in a letter from Kingsford to Burnand published by the
latter in 'La Date de Naissance d'Othon I , sire de Grandson in "Revue
Historique Vaudoise, 1911, pp129-132- I possess all the volumes of this
Society)and died 1328. He was a poet, Statesman, Soldier and politician. He never had
children. He is the subject of a very good book written by Esther rowland
Clifford on his life entitled ' A knight of Great Renown'.

I have much on the Grandsons, both English and European, with E.S,
Charriere's Opus on the family, Les sires de Grandson, and Albert de Gingin's work on
them also, as well as my own extended files.

peter

Nathaniel Taylor

Re: Sir Otto Grandson

Legg inn av Nathaniel Taylor » 23 jan 2005 00:20:03

Sir Otto Grandson, one of the few medieval figures in the West who
achieved near Centenarian age, could he have been called French or
Savoyard? Or was he in essence multi-national?

My sources think his forbears were Swiss.

Switzerland did not exist at that time! Otho Sire de Grandson was born c
1238 ...

Nor did nationalities in the modern sense. It looks like Lausanne (and
perhaps Grandson) was part of Savoy for a while during his lifetime (at
least from one historical map I find), but I don't think he would have
been called Savoyard and certainly not French.

Nat Taylor

a genealogist's sketchbook:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nathanieltaylor/leaves/

Cristopher Nash

Re: Sir Otto Grandson

Legg inn av Cristopher Nash » 26 jan 2005 16:21:01

PDeloriol@aol.com wrote --

I have much on the Grandsons, both English and European, with E.S,
Charriere's Opus on the family, Les sires de Grandson, and Albert de
Gingin's work on them also, as well as my own extended files.

I hate to dredge up this old one again, but in view of your rich
resources, I wonder whether you may have anything that looks cogent
to you on -


Agnes (? de Grandison), d. 11 Dec 1357, who m. Thomas Bardolf,
Ld Bardolf (b. 4 Oct 1282, supposedly Plumpton, Suss, d. 15 Dec
1328)

You'll undoubtedly know the history of this one - sometimes thought
da of William de Grandison, 'Seigneur de Grandison', by Blanche da.
of Louis de Savoie, Baron de Vaud (per discussion, CP I ('Bardolf'),
418; CP XIV, p. 64, adding that Agnes seems unlikely to have been the
da. of William, Seigneur de Grandison).

Thanks for any thoughts!

Cris
--

Cristopher Nash

Re: Sir Otto Grandson

Legg inn av Cristopher Nash » 28 jan 2005 14:01:02

Peter - thanks hugely for this, it's a great help in clarifying the
over-all context, with lines to explore. I'm very grateful!

Cris

In a message dated 26/01/2005 15:10:41 GMT Standard Time,
c@windsong.u-net.com writes:

Agnes (? de Grandison), d. 11 Dec 1357, who m. Thomas Bardolf,
Ld Bardolf (b. 4 Oct 1282, supposedly Plumpton, Suss, d. 15 Dec
1328)

There is no straight answer to this one! There are several Agnes's
who might fit the bill but none that are mentioned as fitting it
exactly!

1) Agnes + after 1348 x c 1306 Sir john de Northwood, +1317.
She may well have re-married as there is much time between her
husband's death and her own......She was daughter of William Lord
Grandisson and Sybil de Tregoz
(Charriere's ms and Europaische Stammtafeln)
2) Agnes , daughter of Pierre II sire de Grandson* and Blanche de
Savoie, + before 1374, married after 1326 Pierre de la Tour
chatillon - this is the one you may think is married to Ld Bardolf -
But she was definitely married to Pierre de La Tour Chatillon - they
are one of my mnay Grandson ancestors - ther is no mention of
another marriage in any of my sources!
3) there was a bastard Grandson , Jean, living1303,1349 in
England son of theobald , sgr de St Croix, brother of Pierre II* (
above), who had at least one child , Agnes - but there is no mention
of any marriages for this Agnes!
(sources - Louis de Charrière - les sires de Grandson)

Sorry for this!
Peter


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