Thierry d'Alsace, Count of Flanders

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Leo van de Pas

Thierry d'Alsace, Count of Flanders

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 20 jan 2005 21:31:01

Thierry d'Alsace was Count of Flanders from 1128 until 1168.

Would anyone have biographical details for him?

With many thanks.
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

Gjest

Re: Thierry d'Alsace, Count of Flanders

Legg inn av Gjest » 20 jan 2005 22:55:38

Thursday, 20 January, 2005


Dear Leo,

The following is somewhat brief, but this gives you some dated
details concerning Count Thierry's life.

Hope this is helpful.

Cheers,

John



Thierry of Alsace
----------------------------------------
Death: 4 Jan 1167/68 Grevelingen, Flanders
Occ: Count of Flanders 1128-1168
Father: Thierry II of Alsace, duke of Upper Lorraine (-1115)
Mother: Gertrude of Flanders [2nd wife] (-1117)

Count of Flanders
pilgrim and Crusader

fought against his cousin William 'Clito', son of Duke Robert of
Normandy over the succession to the County of Flanders;
succeeded to the County 1128 upon William's death[1]
on pilgrimage, summer 1139 -fought with King Fulk (father-in-law) in
invasion of Gilead; joined the 2nd Crusade - fought at Attalia,
March 1148; in attendance at King Baldwin's assembly at Acre, 24
June 1148[2]

on fourth pilgrimage, in company with King Amalric at Tripoli and
Antioch, Oct 1164[2]

name, Francais: Thierry d'Alsace
name, Nederlans: Diederik van den Elzas


Spouse: Sibyl of Anjou
Death: 1165[3]
Father: Fulk V, Count of Anjou, later King of Jerusalem (ca1090-1143)
Mother: Eremburg of La Fleche (-1126)

Children: Margaret, Countess of Flanders 1191-1194
m. Baldwin V, Count of Hainaut [3] [4]
Philip, Count of Flanders (-1191) [5]
Matthew, Count of Boulogne (-1173) [5] [6]



SOURCES


1. David Nicholas, "Medieval Flanders," London: Longman Group, 1992.
2. Sir Steven Runciman, "A History of the Crusades (3 vols),"
Cambridge: Cambridge Univ. Press, 1954.
3. William Addams Reitwiesner,
"Genetic Genealogy Opinions?," Aug 15, 2000,
GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com.
4. Paul Theroff, "The Counts of Flanders and Hainault,"
Paul Theroff's Dynastic Genealogy Files,
worldroots.clicktron.com/brigitte/theroff/
5. John Gillingham, "Richard I," Yale University Press
(Yale English Monarchs series), 1999.
6. Paul Theroff, "The House of Champagne-Blois,"
Paul Theroff's Dynastic Genealogy Files,
http://worldroots.com/brigitte/pther_e.html
originally found at:
worldroots.clicktron.com/brigitte/theroff/


"Leo van de Pas" wrote:
Thierry d'Alsace was Count of Flanders from 1128 until 1168.

Would anyone have biographical details for him?

With many thanks.
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

Peter Stewart

Re: Thierry d'Alsace, Count of Flanders

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 21 jan 2005 03:35:36

Comments interspersed:

<therav3@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1106258138.157772.23120@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Thursday, 20 January, 2005


Dear Leo,

The following is somewhat brief, but this gives you some dated
details concerning Count Thierry's life.

Hope this is helpful.

Cheers,

John



Thierry of Alsace
----------------------------------------
Death: 4 Jan 1167/68 Grevelingen, Flanders
Occ: Count of Flanders 1128-1168
Father: Thierry II of Alsace, duke of Upper Lorraine (-1115)
Mother: Gertrude of Flanders [2nd wife] (-1117)

There is some disagreement as to whether or not Thierry was the eldest son
of his father's marriage to Gertrude of Flanders - I haven't looked into
this closely. Georges Poull in _La Maison ducale de Lorraine devenue la
Maison impériale et royale d'Autriche, de Hongrie et de Bohême_ (Nancy,
1991) p. 28 presented what appears at a glance to be good evidence that
Thierry's elder brother Simon I, duke of Lorraine was actually his
full-sibling. However, Thérèse de Hemptinne in her (biographical) part of
'Thierry d'Alsace, comte de Flandre: biographie et actes' (the latter
section by Michel Parisse), _Annales de l'Est_, fifth series 43 (1991) cited
Poull for the genealogy while nevertheless stating (p. 83) that Thierry was
the eldest son from his parents' marriage. I suspect that Hemptinne had just
looked up Thierry in the chapter of Poull's work giving his descendants,
rather than cross-checking the ancestry, and took for granted that Simon was
his paternal half-brother due to the inheritnace of Flanders through
Gertrude to Thierry

Count of Flanders
pilgrim and Crusader

fought against his cousin William 'Clito', son of Duke Robert of
Normandy over the succession to the County of Flanders;
succeeded to the County 1128 upon William's death[1]
on pilgrimage, summer 1139 -fought with King Fulk (father-in-law) in
invasion of Gilead; joined the 2nd Crusade - fought at Attalia,
March 1148; in attendance at King Baldwin's assembly at Acre, 24
June 1148[2]

on fourth pilgrimage, in company with King Amalric at Tripoli and
Antioch, Oct 1164[2]

name, Francais: Thierry d'Alsace
name, Nederlans: Diederik van den Elzas


Spouse: Sibyl of Anjou
Death: 1165[3]
Father: Fulk V, Count of Anjou, later King of Jerusalem (ca1090-1143)
Mother: Eremburg of La Fleche (-1126)

Thierry d'Alsace was first married to a lady named Suanhilde who died on 4
September 1133. Her family origin is not recorded, although she is usually
said - from onomastics alone - to have been daughter of Count Folmar VI of
Metz and his wife Suanhilde. This is merely conjecture, and even if unusual
names are held to have run so strongly and exclusively in families that a
close connection between these women might be assumed, still the younger
Suanhilde could just as well have been a niece or cousin of the elder.

By his first marriage Thierry had a daughter named Laura (or Laurette) who
died in 1170 having married four times - first to Ivan, count of Aalst
(Alost), by whom she had a son; secondly to Henry II, count of Arlon & duke
of Limburg, from whom she was divorced in 1152; thirdly to Raoul I, count of
Vermandois, seneschal of France, who died soon after their marriage; and
fourthly to Henry, count of Namur & Luxemburg, from whom she was divorced in
1163. After these vicissitudes, Laura retired to a nunnery and expired after
a few chaste years.

Children: Margaret, Countess of Flanders 1191-1194
m. Baldwin V, Count of Hainaut [3] [4]
Philip, Count of Flanders (-1191) [5]
Matthew, Count of Boulogne (-1173) [5] [6]

From his marriage to Sybilla of Anjou Thierry had seven children:

Balduin, born ca 1135, died 30 Jul 1150

Gertrude, who died as a nun at Messines on a 3 March after 1186, wife
(divorced before 1162) of Umberto III, count of Savoy (I posted about their
separation recently in another thread) and secondly (also divorced) of
Hugues III, seigneur of Oisy & castellan of Cambrai.

Margaret I, countess of Flanders, died 15 November 1194, wife of Raoul II
the Leper, count of Vermandois and secondly Balduin V & VIII, count of
Hainaut & Flanders (by right of his wife)



Mathilde, abbess of Fontevrault



Philippe, count of Vermandois (by right of his first wife), count of
Flanders & regent of France, died on crusade, of the plague, at Acre 1 June
1191


Matthew, count of Boulogne (by right of his first wife), killed at
Driencourt, Normandy 25 July 1173

Pierre, bishop of Cambrai from 1167 to 1175 when he resigned to marry,
leaving a posthumous daughter when he died before August 1176.

Thierry also had three known ilegitimate sons

Peter Stewart

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