Dear Peter,
Faudon Manor deserves its own thread and so does the Douglas family. I am
very aware of the importance of William Douglas and his son Sir James Douglas
and take a great deal of pride in this descent. I was simply stating the facts
about the Douglas lands I know to have existed before 1326.
The history of Faudon Manor in this family begins with Gilbert Bataille who
was the first of his family in Britain. The following shows the suit and the
succession to 1207:
Calendar of Documents pertaining to Scotland preserved in her majestys public
Record office, London edited by Joseph Bain, Vol. I 1108-1272, H.M. General
Register House 1881, Edinburgh:
#412. Oct. 30, 1207.
Pleas in a month from Michaelmas in the king's 9th year.
Northumberland:---Richard de Umfraville by Geoffry de Luci his attorney complains that Eustace de
Vesci deforces him of the custody of Henry Bataille's heir, which is his
reason of the enfeoffment which Robert ' with the beard', Richard's great
grandfather (proavus) gave to Gilbert Bataille the heir's ancestor. For when Gilbert
came with him to the conquest of England, Robert gave him seizin of Faudon and
the moiety of Neuerton, to be held of him and his heirs for the service of a
knight. He held it for his life, and Walter Bataille his son after him, and
after him Henry Bataille the heir's father. And so he should have the custody and
counsel of the heir. Eustace, by John and Simon his attorneys, defends, and
says that it was agreed (placitum) by the king's writ in Northumberland between
Odinell de Umfraville, Richard's grandfather, and William de Vesci, Eustace's
father, in the 2nd year of king Henry at Werkeworthe, regarding the custody of
Henry Bataille, at a county court on the Morrow of the Purification of the
Blessed Mary, by friends convened on both sides, that for 15 marks, and a horse,
and a goshawk, which William gave to Odinell, the latter should quitclaim the
custody of the aforesaid Henry and his heirs for ever, and also their
marriage, when they happened; and this he offered to deraign against him by his
freeman Ernald Brud, who would prove by his body that he was present and saw the
same, either against Richard, or any other of the county who contradicted it.
And if evil chanced to Ernald, by another in his place. Richard's attorney
denied and such acquittance or agreement, inasmuch as Henry was a knight three
years before his father died, and thus could not be under age when that happened;
and likewise Walter, Henry's father was a knight before his father died; and
thus none of Gilbert's heirs were under age when his ancestor died, wherefore
there could be no agreement regarding their custody. If this was not enough, he
placed himself on the great assize, as to their rights in the custody; and
asked that it should be admitted that Eustace's attorneys had not denied that
the plaintiff's ancestors had first enfeoffed the heir's ancestors as aforesaid.
Decreed---that Richard should have the custody and counsel of the heir,
inasmuch as Eustace's attorneys did not deny that Richard's ancestors first
enfeoffed those of the heir, and they could not show that Eustace or his ancestors
ever had seisin under the quittance alleged to have [been] made by Odinell. And
Eustace is in amercement for an unjust deforcement. [Coram Rege Rolls, 9 John,
No. 33, m.5]
This is the beginning of the feud over the manor as the Umfraville's always
thought themselves the owners of this manor. Henry Bataille mentioned in the
suit above had a son William Bataille. He married Constance de Flamville, one
of the heiresses and sisters of William Flamville and the daughter of Roger
Flamville.
Calendar of Documents pertaining to Scotland preserved in her majestys public
Record office, London edited by Joseph Bain, Vol. I 1108-1272, H.M. General
Register House 1881, Edinburgh:
#2281. Nov. 26, 1261.
Northumberland:---The king has taken the homage of Robert Bataile, son and
heir of Constance de Flamville lately deceased for the lands that she held in
capite, and has delivered him the lands. William de Latymer the king's escheator
ultra Trent is commanded on taking security for 4s.6d. to give Robert seisin.
[Tower of London] [ Originalia, 46 Henry III, m.2]
#653. 1199-1216.
Essoins de malo veniendi in the octaves of St. Hilary.
Northumberland:---Constance wife of William Bataylle versus John Fitz Simon in a plea to hear her
trial by Yedonus de Swouegheton, in fifteen days from Easter. The same day is
given to William in banco. [Coram Rege Rolls, John 'incert' no. 60 m.1]
There were two documented children of William Bataille and Constance
Flamville: Robert Bataille who died s.p. and his heir, his sister Constance Bataille
who married William Douglas [1200-1274]. The manor of Faudon was brought to
William Douglas through this marriage. He was from the beginning of his tenure of
Faudon plagued by the Umfraville claim. In addition to the documentation
below he also had one suit that proved false where he claimed that the Umfravilles
had broken in the manor house attempted to kill him and injure his wife
Constance and wounded his son William ['le Hardi'] so severely by a cut in the neck
that they almost cut off his head. This suit was thrown out for lack of
proof in the English courts. The following suit tells of the problems between
these families over Faudon:
#2538. June 25, 1269.
[M. 2 dorso] Northumberland:---Pleas before Gilbert de Preston and other
justices itinerant at Newcastle-upon-Tyne, on the morrow of St. John [the] Baptist.
The assize recognises whether Gilbert de Humfarville unjustly disseized
William de Duglas and Custancia his wife of their freehold in Faudon; viz., a
messuage and 3 carucates and 5 acres of land. Gilbert merely says that at one time
he took the tenement, by the precept of lord Edward, as William was accused of
having been against the king and said lord Edward in the late disturbance in
the kingdom. That afterwards he restored seizin to William by the lord
Edward's precept, viz., about the Feast of St. Michael in the king's 51st year, and
has never since interfered with said tenement, and claims nothing but the
service due him from said manor. William and Custancia say that after Gilbert had
seisin of the tenement by lord Edward's precept, he [William] went to the
king's court and showed both to the king and lord Edward that he had never joined
the disturbance against them, and placed himself on a jury out of the county,
by whom the matter was tried. So the king himself by his writ enjoined the
Sheriff of the county to give seisin to William; which the Sheriff did accordingly
as they say, about the 'Gule of Autumn' in the aforesaid year. And they were
in peaceful seisin for eight days until Gilbert unjustly disseised them and
burned the houses on the tenement. And they place themselves on the assize. The
jurors say on oath, that at one time William was charged with having been
against the king and lord Edward in the late troubles, and was afterwards cleared
thereof by an inquisition held by the king's precept. And the Sheriff of the
county was directed by the king's writ to give William and Custancia seisin,
which he did accordingly, and after they were seised Gilbert sent his men and
ejected them from their holding, and while it was in his possession their houses
were burned. And the jury find that he disseised them unjustly as the writ
says. The judgment of the court is that William and Custancia shall recover
seisin by view of the jurors; and Gilbert is in amercement. damages, besides the
combustion, 90 marks; whereof 20 marks. Damages of the above combustion £20; to
the judgment for damages of the combustion. (some explanatory words seem
wanting).
M.3.
William Duglas was summoned to answer to Gylemin de Wollouere in a plea to
show cause why he deforced him of 30s. of rent in Faundon which William Batayle
demised to him for a term not yet expired. During which term the said William
Batayl sold the rent to William de Duglas, by reason whereof the latter
ejected Gylemin therefrom. And further that whereas the said William Batayle had
demised the said rent to the plaintiff at the Feast of the Purification of the
Blessed Mary in the king's 48th year, for the term of six years. The said
William Batayle, at the Feast of the Invention of the Holy Rood next thereafter,
sold the same to the said William de Duglas, whereon the latter ejected the
Plaintiff within the aforesaid term, from said rent, to his damages as he says, to
the extent of £20. William comes and defends. Afterwards he gives a mark for
leave to agree, It is agreed that Gylemin remits his claim for 5 1/2 marks
given to him by William. [Assize Roll, Northumberland, 53 Henry III].
Faudon manor was then passed to William 'le Hardi' Douglas. After the death
of his first wife Elizabeth Stewart he abducted [though it may not have been
entirely against her will] Eleanor de Lovaine the then widow of Sir William de
Ferrers of Groby. Eleanor held many lands in dower of her late husband
including Ware, co. Hertford and other large estates in England. These lands were
dower lands and reverted back to the Ferrers heirs after her death. Faudon manor
was confiscated when William 'le Hardi' Douglas was captured and then after
his death Eleanor sought to be dowered in it of Edward I and later Edward II:
Calendar of documents relating to Scotland preserved in Her Majesties public
record office, London, Vol. III 1307-1357, edited by Joseph Bain, Edinburgh,
1887:
#53. Michaelmas [Sept. 29] 1308. Northumberland.
The sheriff accounts for £10 levied from Robert de Umfraville, who holds the
lands which were William Duglas's (of a fine of £100 which William made with
the late king for licence to marry Aleanora de Ferrars), by writ returnable on
the morrow of the last Easter. [Exchequer. L.T.R. memoranda I Edw. II].
Calendar of documents relating to Scotland preserved in Her Majesties public
record office, London, Vol. II 1272-1307, edited by Joseph Bain, Edinburgh,
1884:
#357. Jan. 27, 1289.
The king requests the Guardians of Scotland to arrest William de Douglas and
Alienora de Ferrars wherever found, and send them before him and his council
to answer for contempt. Westminster. [Chancery Miscellaneous Portfolios. No.
41/14]
#358. Jan. 28, 1289.
Writ commanding the Sheriff of Northumberland to seize the lands and chattels
of William de Duglas for his contempt in violently abducting and carrying off
into the interior of Scotland, Alienora, widow of William de Ferrars, from
Elena de Zusche's manor of Tranent, where she was awaiting her dower from the
lands of her late husband -- and to arrest and imprison himself if he can be
found. Westminster. [Originalia, 17 Edw. I, m. 3]
#468. Feb. 18, 1291.
The king for a fine of £100 made by William de Douglas, grants him the
marriage of Alienora widow of William de Ferrars. Ambesbury. [Fine Rolls, 19 Edw. I,
m. 16]
#957. Oct. 23, 1297.
The king by his council at Westminster 23rd October, has committed to
Alianora wife of William de Duglas the manor of Wadeham Ferrers part of her dower
from William de Ferrers her former husband (seized for William de Duglas's
offences, who is a prisoner in the Tower of London) worth £16 2s. 6d. yearly, she
drawing £10 yearly for herself and paying £6 2s. 6d. at Exchequer. [Exchequer,
Q.R. Memoranda, 26 Edw. I, m. 63] Afterwards on 1st <ay 1298, the king granted
her the manor free of Yearly payment at Exchequer. [ibid. m. 67 dorso].
Douglas had been committed to the Tower along with Thomas de Morham and another,
under mandate by the Prince of Wales on 12th October. [Close Rolls, 25 Edw. I, m.
4].
#1054. Jan. 20, 1299.
The king to John de Langeton his chancellor. As Alienora wife of Sir William
de Douglas 'who is with God' has begged the king for her dower lands from Sir
William de Ferrers her first husband, which were seized along with the said
William de Douglas's other lands, for his rebellion, he commands the said dower
lands to be restored to her. Massingham. [Privy Seals (Tower), 27 Edw. I, File
1].
#1055. Jan. 24, 1299.
The king learning that William de Douglas of Scotland, a rebel, is dead,
whose own lands as well as those in which Alianora his widow had dower from
William de Ferrers her first husband, were seized, commands restoration of the
latter to her. Thetford. [Close Rolls, 27 Edw. I, m. 18].
#1309. July 1, 1302.
Petition of Alianora de Ferrers as to the rectification of the demand against
her for the balance (£83) of William de Douglas's fine of £100 for marrying
her, as his own lands of Faudon were sufficient security. Respited (in
Parliament at Westminster) [Exchequer Q.R. Memoranda, 31 Edw. I, m. 25 dorso].
#1310. July 22, 1302.
The king to John de St. John his lieutenant in Scotland. Alianora de Ferrers
has petitioned the king for her dower from the lands of her former husband
William de Ferrers in Scotland, which were seized for the rebellion of William
Douglas afterwards her husband, also now deceased. He commands that her dower
from her first husband be restored. Westminster. [Close Rolls, 30 Edw. I, m. 9]
#736. April 27, 1296.
Hugh the son of William Douglas is nearly two years and in the custody of
John le Parker at Stebbing but he was born in England.
#918. July 24, 1297.
Letter from the constable of Berwick (?) to the king. Relates the submission
of the Scots at Irvine, and that he has put Sir William Douglas in prison for
not keeping his agreement. Berwick. Norman French. [Tower Miscellaneous Rolls.
no. 474]
#919. July 24, 1297.
From the same [Constable of Berwick]. Sir William de Douglas in his prison at
Berwick Castle in irons. Begs he may not be freed till the king knows the
charges against him. Norman French. [Tower Miscellaneous Rolls. no. 474]
#1030. Nov. 24, 1298.
The king commands the Sheriff of Northumberland to deliver the manor of
Faudon, forfeited by William de Douglas, a Scotsman and rebel, to Gilbert de
Umfraville earl of Angus. By the king himself. Newcastle-on-Tyne. [Close Rolls, 27
Edw. I, m.20].
Calendar of documents relating to Scotland preserved in Her Majesties public
record office, London, Vol. II 1272-1307, edited by Joseph Bain, Edinburgh,
1884:
#1671. June 10, 1305.
The king empowers Richard de Buselyngthorp to receive the attorneys of Robert
de Umfraville and Lucia his wife, in a plea depending in the king's bench
between them and Alianora widow of William de Douglas, plaintiff, regarding her
dower in Faudon. Wytle. 10th June anno xxxiii. [Chancery Miscellaneous
portfolios, no. 41/123].
Hugh Douglas the son of Eleanor and William Douglas was born at Ware, co.
Hertford in 1295 where Eleanor had her dower lands of William de Ferrers, Earl of
Groby.
Faudon manor was temporarily granted to Sir James Douglas in 1329 when he
came to England on his way to Spain with the heart of Robert the Bruce.
Calendar of documents relating to Scotland preserved in Her Majesties public
record office, London, Vol. III 1307-1357, edited by Joseph Bain, Edinburgh,
1887:
#982. May 12, 1329
Restitution by the king's special favor to Sir James Douglas knight, of the
manor of Faudon in Northumberland, and all other lands in England forfeited by
his father William Douglas. Eltham. [Patent Rolls, 3 Edw. III, p.1. m.20]
#990. Sept. 1, 1329
The king commends to Alfonso King of Castile, Leon &c. James Douglas of
Scotland, who is on his way to the Holy Land against the Saracens. Gloucester.
[Close Rolls, 3 Edw. III, m.12 dorso]
#991. Sept. 1, 1329
Protection for seven years for James lord of Douglas in Scotland on his way
to the Holy Land with the heart of the late Robert, king of Scotland, in aid of
the Christians against the Saracens. Gloucester. [Patent Rolls, 3 Edw. III,
p.2, m.14]
After the death of Sir James Douglas the Umfravilles again pressed their
claim and received the manor of Faudon.
Faudon was the largest holding of the Douglas family in England. As far as
Douglasdale in Scotland I only know that Sir James Douglas was given permission
to rebuild it as it had been destroyed in the Scottish Wars by Robert the
Bruce. At the time of Sir James Douglas death the family estates were either
partly ruined or confiscated by the English. This is what I meant by the value of
the inheritance. I cannot see why in 1332 the Keiths would have pressed for
estates that had little value due to devastation. The manors had at one time
before the conflict been worth a great deal but many families were in this same
position. The Strathbolgi family for one lost their Scottish lands and pressed
for the estate of Chilham in Kent which was theirs through the descent from
Rohese de Dover because of devastation of their Northumberland lands. They
needed a source of income that had not been ruined by the devastation caused by
the raids on both sides of the border in northern England and the Scottish
Border lands. What we now see as value manors at that time were victims of a war
and not what they appear today.
Best Regards,
MichaelAnne Guido
Douglas Lands
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Peter A. Kincaid
Re: Douglas Lands
Legg inn av Peter A. Kincaid » 19 jan 2005 05:13:16
My first reaction to your commendable response is that it
sheds little light on the Scottish side of affairs. I have the
impression (which as you note is not always accurate
considering your respect of Sir William 'le Harid') is that you
may not see the material that you posted in the same light
as I see it.
The manor of Faudon, based on your references, was
owned/held by the Umfravilles. However, there was a
subinfeudation of the manor to which Sir William Douglas
came to hold and he seemed to clearly have the right
to possession. One of the first disputes you note is over
the wardship of the heir. The Umfraville claimed this right
as superiors but it was claimed that this right of wardship
was also conveyed. However, as no proof that seisin was
given for this sale of the wardship, the Umfraville won.
The other dispute relates to the feudal casualty of marriage.
No consent (actually purchase of the right or grant of the
honour) was given for Sir William Douglas to marry the
widow. Thus, the action was brought to the courts by way
of accusing Sir William Douglas of abduction. It was up
to him to prove his innocence. Clearly he did not have the
right to marry her but she was willing to marry him and
did. Women did have a choice in their marriages and
a marriage was not in effect unless she consented to it in
the present tense. She must have. To protect the superior's
rights, and as a deterrent for a woman to marry someone
other than who the superior (or whoever they assigned this
right to) wanted them to, the marriage could go ahead if
they paid a huge fine for their "contempt." I recall one case
where this fine was set at a certain multiple of the total yearly
revenues of the estate. They agreed to pay the fine and
they must of been in the position to do so (most are not).
The other cases relate to disputes which broke out after
each time the Sir William Douglas was forfeit for rebellion.
Upon forfeiture, the estate would eventually (sometimes the
King had temporary rights) revert to the superior of the
lands (in this case the Umfravilles). Each time Sir William
Douglas was restored this created conflict as the superior
may have, in the meantime, conveyed his rights to someone
else.
In the end the Douglases still had a claim to the lands as the
1329 restoration to Sir James Douglas proves. What would
be interesting is what happened after he died without legitimate
heirs. In appearances the Umfravilles would own the manor,
as they were the superiors, but the key is who ultimately ended
up as their vassals. There is the possibility that the Douglas
claim was extinguished by Sir James Douglas' son being illegitimate
(another case where title reverts to the Crown or the superior).
Again, this was an interesting post by you but the story remains
to be told. Best wishes!
Peter
At 09:08 PM 18/01/2005, ClaudiusI0@aol.com wrote:
sheds little light on the Scottish side of affairs. I have the
impression (which as you note is not always accurate
considering your respect of Sir William 'le Harid') is that you
may not see the material that you posted in the same light
as I see it.
The manor of Faudon, based on your references, was
owned/held by the Umfravilles. However, there was a
subinfeudation of the manor to which Sir William Douglas
came to hold and he seemed to clearly have the right
to possession. One of the first disputes you note is over
the wardship of the heir. The Umfraville claimed this right
as superiors but it was claimed that this right of wardship
was also conveyed. However, as no proof that seisin was
given for this sale of the wardship, the Umfraville won.
The other dispute relates to the feudal casualty of marriage.
No consent (actually purchase of the right or grant of the
honour) was given for Sir William Douglas to marry the
widow. Thus, the action was brought to the courts by way
of accusing Sir William Douglas of abduction. It was up
to him to prove his innocence. Clearly he did not have the
right to marry her but she was willing to marry him and
did. Women did have a choice in their marriages and
a marriage was not in effect unless she consented to it in
the present tense. She must have. To protect the superior's
rights, and as a deterrent for a woman to marry someone
other than who the superior (or whoever they assigned this
right to) wanted them to, the marriage could go ahead if
they paid a huge fine for their "contempt." I recall one case
where this fine was set at a certain multiple of the total yearly
revenues of the estate. They agreed to pay the fine and
they must of been in the position to do so (most are not).
The other cases relate to disputes which broke out after
each time the Sir William Douglas was forfeit for rebellion.
Upon forfeiture, the estate would eventually (sometimes the
King had temporary rights) revert to the superior of the
lands (in this case the Umfravilles). Each time Sir William
Douglas was restored this created conflict as the superior
may have, in the meantime, conveyed his rights to someone
else.
In the end the Douglases still had a claim to the lands as the
1329 restoration to Sir James Douglas proves. What would
be interesting is what happened after he died without legitimate
heirs. In appearances the Umfravilles would own the manor,
as they were the superiors, but the key is who ultimately ended
up as their vassals. There is the possibility that the Douglas
claim was extinguished by Sir James Douglas' son being illegitimate
(another case where title reverts to the Crown or the superior).
Again, this was an interesting post by you but the story remains
to be told. Best wishes!
Peter
At 09:08 PM 18/01/2005, ClaudiusI0@aol.com wrote:
Dear Peter,
Faudon Manor deserves its own thread and so does the Douglas family. I am
very aware of the importance of William Douglas and his son Sir James Douglas
and take a great deal of pride in this descent. I was simply stating the
facts
about the Douglas lands I know to have existed before 1326.
The history of Faudon Manor in this family begins with Gilbert Bataille who
was the first of his family in Britain. The following shows the suit and the
succession to 1207:
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- ↳ Austrheim
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- ↳ Strinda og Selbu
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- ↳ Trondheim
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- ↳ Telemark
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- ↳ Drangedal
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- ↳ Midt-Telemark
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- ↳ Nome
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- ↳ Notodden-Rjukan-distriktet
- ↳ Hjartdal
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- ↳ Skien-Porsgrunn-distriktet
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